Mike_TX

My wife's cousin is a high-ranking officer in a California Silicon Valley tech company. When we were visiting last week, he mentioned to me that glass rearview mirrors in cars were soon - very soon - to be a thing of the past.

In fact, he said that his company (and others, along with the automotive industry) are finalizing design specs right now on rearview cameras to replace the current mirrors on cars. He said that, believe it or not, it has become cheaper to manufacture cameras than to manufacture mirrors.

The cameras have the advantage of "gaining up" (brightening) in dim light or in the dark, of dimming when bright lights shine in them, of having a wider angle of view, of integrating better into a car's styling, etc., etc.

He went on to say they will start showing up as soon as 2 to 3 years from now. The biggest hurdle they've run into, he says, is acceptance from the driving public. Study groups have shown some trouble adjusting to a video screen instead of their rearview mirrors. But it's coming, he tells me.

Remember, you read it first here on AZ.
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dramsey

I don't believe it. I've been in the high tech industry for 20+ years, and there's no way it's cheaper to manufacture a CCD camera and flat-panel display than it is to manufacture a piece of polarized glass.

I might believe the camera alone; which you could presumably get by with if you used an existing display inside the car, but that presumes a car with a nav system or something similar.

That said, it would still be a cool feature for high end cars...

sotiri

Cheaper in the relative terms of incorporating it in the car, not having to account in the design of the car the mounting and viewability of the mirror (angles, blindspots etc) and allowing for the greater flexibility of the overall design of the auto.
Its true that the greatest hurdle IS the consumer, who after all had to be 'retaught' how to brake with ABS (there were lots who didnt want it and didnt think it actually helped) as well as those who at first didnt want an automatic tranny (how may are still purists??) etc etc.

Mike_TX

I'm not making this up ... it's what I was told.

I also expressed skepticism, and he said that while rearview mirrors look simple they have to be made to pretty exacting specs, and that cameras able to provide as good a view as you get in that piece of glass are just a few dollars in the quantities they're talking about. Then, as pointed out by Sotiri, there are the housings, the finish, the design considerations, etc., etc.

True, there will have to a monitor to display the view, but the outside AND inside mirrors can be integrated to display on a single monitor, and the price of small LCD displays is plummeting, too. Have you noticed you can get not only a display monitor, but also a DVD movie/music player for about 100 bucks these days? A pair of outside rearviews and an inside rearview will cost you a bunch more than that at your local dealer!

BTW, when I went to the unveiling of the new G35 a couple weeks ago, the "thank you" gift the dealer gave everyone as we left was a digital camera, complete with built-in flash. It's a whopping 640x480-pixel camera, with non-removable memory, but to give them away as gimme gifts, I doubt they cost the dealer more than 10 or 20 bucks apiece. But it shows how cheap the technology has gotten ...
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tvande

#1 How about really cool and go with a heads up display? Only thing the RL is currently missing. <g>

#2 Not sure where you've been shopping, but the portable DVD players are well below $100 line around here (I'm thinking 70 or so).

#3 <cough cough> Spent a bit more than that one my FIRST 640x480 digital camera. Ain't tech grand?

Tom

Mike_TX

... You, too, huh? And I thought it was hot stuff at the time, too. LOL!
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lumpulus

They are surplus from somewhere that couldn't sell them I'm sure.

Mike_TX

Here's one exactly like mine you can get on eBay for around 99 cents if you hurry!

Largan Digital Camera
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pimpin-tl

If I remember correctly. I think the TL Concept actually had all of its mirrors as cameras intergrated to the display. Side view mirrors were Cameras, and so on. So I believe this is possible. But the cost will be more not cheaper than the current $200 mirror.

cwdonahue

Hmmmm....

There's cost (absolute cost) and there's incremental cost. For a car like the RL which already has a display screen and the plumbing for video with the rear view camera, I can believe that the incremental cost is about the same as the auto-dimming mirror installed in the car. A second display might be in the ballpark of a fancy auto dimming mirror.

In absolute cost terms, no way. Also, once the guys making mirrors see someone getting on their turf, guess which way their prices will go to maintain their business and drive out the new competitors.

CL6

Yeah and there were WMD in Iraq and the Tooth Fairy exists.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Tully44

I can see auto manufacturers eliminating the rear view mirrors and moving towards cameras. Why not? We are becoming too lazy to even turn our heads and look behind us when changing lanes! What good are mirrors when soon everything will just appears as a heads-up display.

Mike_TX

Well, I'm not suggesting it will become standard equipment on all cars right away, but I won't be surprised to see it on lux cars before long.

The good part, though, is that field of view and visbility in all kinds of light can both be improved, so I see it as a definite improvement.
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Mike_TX

Well, I'm not suggesting it will become standard equipment on all cars right away, but I won't be surprised to see it on lux cars before long.

The good part, though, is that field of view and visbility in all kinds of light can both be improved, so I see it as a definite improvement.
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jhr3uva90

Just let the cars drive themselves!

gbriank

They are! Check out the Lexus LS460! It parks itself!

GoHawks

Didn't the TL concept also have "wiperless windshield wipers"? I believe it was supposed to be high velocity air nozzles that blew air to keep the glass clean. I can see it for rain, but what happens with bug splatter or that salty grime after a snowmelt?

Benush

Actually it makes perfect sense. By getting rid of the side mirrors, a screen can display information from cameras that look at both sides of the vehicle and the rear so there would be no blind spots. Less head movement checking in mirrors means a better level of attention.

All of our cameras have auto focus so taking that one step further objects in the rear could be shown in faster and better detail buy zooming in on them.

Infra red could be made part of the rear scan system to detect from behind like the Legend uses now for its front facing heads up display (Early warning or something like that. It uses an alogorythm (sp?) that checks the size and shape of the object in front to determine what it is and how far away.

Imagine a 5 camera system with 2 on either side of the front fenders that would have 90 degree vision displaying everything next to the car and into driving lanes on either side and then 2 cameras at the back under the tail lights for rear scan coverage while the car is in forward gear and then the fifth one in the middle with distance sensors that kick in when you go into reverse so it can give a better display of objects and a warning system if you get to close to something.

Realistically this could be added to the current RL with Navi by deleting all three mirrors and replacing them with 5 relatively inexpensive cameras, a few more feet of wire and some programming that told which computers when to switch on which camera. The defrosting elements would be smaller and cost less, you would not need two motors for the side mirrors because you wouldn't be adjusting them.

Now wouldn't THAT make the competition sit up and take notice.

The next step is a simple display system that takes all that info and projects it onto the windshield and you have full time heads up display 360 degree coverage. Probably for less than current components and with exsiting technology (all of which Acura is already using). I can see it as a reality in the 2009 model year (isn't that the next major revision for the RL?).

Oh, and Mike, how does you wife like the HF1000? I'm tossing the E815 and its great reception and replacing it wth the KRZR since you say you have great voice recognintion with the RAZR.

Mike_TX

Hey, Ben, the current setup as planned might use only one camera, mounted somewhere near the top front of the roof. Imagine something like the sharkfin we have now at the back of the roof. With a wide-angle view, it could take in everything side- and rear-view mirrors do now. But your idea of extra mirrors for additional uses makes sense, too.

I ended up going with the little visor-clip HF820, and it works really well in my wife's Caddy STS. It has to be recharged separately, but it seems to hold a charge for a LONG time. By using the RAZR's voice dial feture, she can just push the button on the HF, say "Home" or "Mother" or whatever, and it places the call. She really likes it. I like it, too, because it cost me only about $68 at Buy.com.
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CL6

Yeah and what a great technology it is, too!

http://www.automobilemag.com/multime...460_auto_park/

Such idiots (Lexus)!

Mike_TX

Yep, the same group of idiots who manufacture the best-selling sedan in America, whose Camry just got Car and Driver "Car of the Year", and who are replacing GM as the world's largest carmaker.

I personally don't need - or want - automatic parallel parking on my car, but if I were still in business, I'd LOVE to have idiots like them on my team!

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sotiri

Even Einstein made mistakes...
Lexus is not the 'perfect' auto maker.

CL6

I read in Car & Driver that this Lexus takes 209 feet to stop from 70 MPH, the same distance as a Lincoln Navigator. To me, this is not successful engineering.

You must have been reading a different magazine than I... Car & Driver gave one of their '10 Best' to the Honda Accord... again. I didn't see a Toyota product on their list.

Do the cars sell? Yes. Are they fun to drive? No. GM lost because they build crappy cars.

lland

But they're sure trying to be...you know, "The relentless pursuit of perfection!"

LL

CL6

Being able to disable traction control on their cars would be a good start.

jhr3uva90

I bet Lexus drivers would LOVE to have a car that drives itself.

CL6

Their cars are so uninspiring to drive I agree with you. The old IS was fun but too boy racer for me.