twothtek

I Just installed a K&N air filter, part # 33-2299, and a real improvement was made to the "low end" torque. Worth the $38 incl shipping

hendjaz

How exactly does an air filter increase torque and how is this filter different than the stock RL filter? Thanks.

twothtek

My observations are subujective, but the "how" here's some links. Hope this helps


Torque http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm


Testing http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm

Best Link http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm#STOCK

Bitium

Different material. Usually less filtration thus increasing air flow. Don't know how the RL is configure, but there is something else that controls airflow and that is the resornator. The resornator is usually located before the filter box, behind the bumper. The resornator stricts airflow too, by multiple air chambers reducing resonance in other words air turbulance that can create noise like humming. Most of the time removing the resornator box increases airflow and allows for increase in power, but also increasing intake noise. BTW if you add an aftermarket Intake system, the intake system will not add any power. The power comes from removing the restrictive stock filter and resornator.

christopher1

Yes! it does work! I just changed my air filter with KN and i feel a Boost from low end . i had a subrau SVX that increased in torque with KN air filter. But will it clog air flow meter???

SoCalCarDude

I changed my air filter to K&N and I'm very happy with the results. I'm not sure if it's in my head, but my right foot and the seat of my pants are telling me that I now have a boost in low-end torque!

Gator5000e

Is this something a total non-car nerd can do given the nature of the filter? Apparently, they sell them at an advance auto parts store not far from my office.

SoCalCarDude

YES! Despite my login name, I'm usually never tinkering under the hood. In this particular case, I thought I could at least change the air filter, since I have installed K&N filters in my other vehicles.

The basic steps that I used were as follows:

1. Remove the two long plastic covers that reside over the battery and the air filter on the driver side of the engine bay.

2. Remove the 4 screws at each corner of the air filter box.

3. Now this is the tricky part since one end of the air filter box cover is attached to some wires/cables and makes it very difficult to maneuver.

What I did was lift up the side of the lid that was closest to the driver's side fender well, and while lifting it up, I pulled the end of the lid that was closest to the engine block and move it towards the fender well. It's not going to move very much, due to the cables, but I believe I was able to make it move an inch, maybe two. Now that the lid has been shifted and lifted, you should have a gap where you can slide the K&N air filter into the top portion of the cover, and once it is in place, hold the air filter in the upper part and slide it back into its original location.

4. Put the 4 screws back.

5. Put the two plastic covers back.

I hope this makes sense?

NorCalRL

I love the idea of increased low end torque.

But is there a trade off of increased noise as the air rushes through the air filter or is noise unaffected?

Dave

hendjaz

"Replaced stock tires with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires "

NorcalRL, how do you like the ride on the Sport A/S (17's?) versus the OEM Michelins? What are the good and the bad (if any) differences you have found so far? Quieter? Also interested to hearing the answer to your question about potential noise increase from the air filter change. Thanks.

NorCalRL

hendjaz, the 17" Sport A/S tires are quieter on every road surface than the OEM Michelins. In some places, such as concrete roadways, the tires are almost silent. That is the exact oposite of the OEM tires. Once I hit concrete roads, they would sing an ugly song.

The only downside is the $950 price tag to purchase them and have them installed. That's why I'm trying to recover part of the cost by selling the original tires.

If I have known at the time I was buying my car that I would soon grow weary of the OEM tires and that these tires were so much better, I would have negotiated an upgrade charge to get them.

[Sales Plug On] On the other hand, some people love the original high quality Michelin tires (which normally sell for $155 each) and would be proud to own a second pair. Those people should check out the link in my signature below. [Sales Plug Off]

I have even read comments on this board that some people purchased the 18" version of the Michelin Pilot A/S and found them quieter than the 17" OEM tires.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

Regards,

Dave

Shotgun

SoCalCarDude, thanks for the feedback, because of you I decided to install the K&N filter as well. OK, I used your instructions to install the filter and when I got to step 3, things got ugly ! Your method didn't work for me because I coudn't get the filter seated properly nor would it stay in place when I tried to pop it in. Anyhow, here's what I wound up doing and it eventually turned out to be a relatively easy task:

1. Removed the battery cover.
2. Loosened completely, but didn't remove, the four screws of the filter air box.
3. Squeezed and slid off the clip holding a metal tube connected to the side of the large air hose.
4. Pulled the metal tube off the large air hose.
5. Loosened the large torque clip on the large air hose connected to the engine assembly.
6. Disconnected the large hair hose from both the engine block assembly and the air filter box
7. Lifted off the top of the air filter box removing the original filter (a large filter it is)
8. Dropped in the K&N filter (a thin, smallish filter) and ensured it fit snugly.
9. Screwed the top of the air filter box back on the lower part of the air filter box containing the new K&N filter.
10. Reversed steps 1-6

The process became easier on an order of magnitude when I completely removed the large the air hose and proceeded from there.

About performance and noise. Yes, my RL seemed a little "spunkier" after installing the K&N filter, could be my imagination though and yes, it seemed just a little noisier when pushed hard - the whining sound got a little more intense. Nothing overly intrusive though... I'll provide more feedback when I drive it some more...


I'm anxious to hear others experience with the K&N air filter. Do tell...

psteng19

There have been "reports" that these K&N filters allow larger particles into the engine than OEM filters, possibly causing damage.

I'd use it on a beater 4 banger commuter car for better throttle response, but it's not something I'd mess with in a $50k car.

Shotgun

Hmmm...Interesting psteng19. What is the nature of these "reports" and were did they originate from? I'm not doubting you - I simply would like to get the definitive "poop" on this subject...before I switch back to the OEM version. Thanks for the feedback...

Bitium

Reports = Common sense

1HOT NSX

It is a well known fact that manufacturers of aftermarket filters claim their increased air flow as the reason for their reported horsepower gains, better throttle response, etc. The facts are: they allow more dirt into the engine, they are noisier and not in a musical/ exciting NSX induction noise at 8.000 rpm way - but just plain noisy, and in all my years of owning and modifying all sorts of cars - and yes, installing K&N and other aftermarket filters in those cars - I have yet to see any documented (as in dyno) power increases from this modification.

My advice is: stay with your OEM filter, it is without a doubt the best thing you can do for your engine. Your "more power" and/or "better torque" you are perceiving is just that - a perception, it is not real. More noise = more torque? . . perhaps.

christopher1

do not believe that kn fiter cause damage but it does give more torque in the butt. i like the kn for summer only use. oem for winter,

Shotgun

Thanks for the "feel good" response Bitium! It's not entirely uncommon for some aftermarket automotive products to be superior to the OEM variety. So you should understand my rationale for being "interested" and wanting to try the K&N filter. Prior to your posts I was under the impression that K&N filters were "world class", uniquely engineered and accepted by automotive enthusiasts world wide. I can't wait for other forum participant to weigh in on this issue...

Shotgun

An intelligent response indeed 1HOT NSX...Thanks, I just may have to reinstall the original filter!

hondamore

It is only a "gut feeling", but I tend to agree with 1HOTNSX, Bitium and psteng19. The point I will make (and have made on other forums) is that, if there were no risk of additional debris entering the engine, then why would Acura, and every other OEM manufacturer not use an oiled cotton type of air filter in all of their cars. Cost is an acceptable reason for economy cars, but even high-end exotics don't come from the factory with an oiled cotton air filter. The reason cannot be the additional noise caused by engines using oiled cotton filters since, once again, even exotic sports cars that are purely performance driven, don't use the oiled cotton filters as OEM. My suspicion (and this is purely speculation) is that the oiled cotton filters allow better air flow but don't filter quite as well as paper filters. OEM manufacturers are unwilling to take the risk that debris would enter the engine and clog up electronic sensors (even if it is a small risk and most of the risk involves poorly maintained filters only) because they are the ones at risk financially through their warranty programs. If car owners are willing to accept the risk and are willing to meticulously maintain the oiled cotton filter, then the choice is theirs. The question then becomes one of risk/reward. Does the oiled cotton filter provide a large enough performance increase to warrant this small increase in the risk of engine damage. That is a choice that must be made by each individual, but I would say that, for me, the performance increase from the OEM styled K&N filters is not great enough for me to take the risk. Changing the entire air intake with a round sytle K&N filter may produce a more impressive performance enhancement and may change the risk/reward equation, but that said, I'm still more concerned about a quiet ride than an extra 5 horsepower and will stick with the OEM paper filters.

SoCalCarDude

Here's a comparison test between paper, cotton gauze (K&N), and foam air filters.

Air Filter Tests

Based on this information and my past experience with K&N in my other cars, I don't feel there is any reason for me to change.

hondamore

Thanks to SoCalCarDude for providing the link to the air filter test!! The conclusions that I would draw from the test are consistent with our discussions here. I believe the K&N filter proved to be superior to the stock paper filter in terms of air flow. The stock paper filter proved superior at filtering dirt from the air by removing 10.88g/min of dirt whereas the K&N filter removed 6.14g/min. The results would therefore suggest that K&N are superior for performance, the paper filter superior for filtering. The other very clear conclusion is that paper filters must be changed frequently whereas the K&N proved their superior longevity claim. Interesting that the testing was done with dirt bike riding in mind which has an entirely different viewpoint to street cars when it comes to choosing the ideal air filter. For dirt bikes, the filter which lasts the longest without clogging up is considered the best, whereas with street cars, the filter which best protects the expensive engine may be considered the best. It further illustrates that each individual has different reasons for making their individual choice of air cleaner for their individual vehicle.

Bitium

Well seaid, but you have to ask yourself why don't OEM manufactures used Iridum spark plugs? or stainless steel headers?, or Silicon compund suspension bushings? or T60 aluminum on many parts? or carbon/ceramic rotors?

There are many varibles involve like durability, cost, production process, maintenance, how much to repair or replaced, cost of change in manufaturing process, contracts with other manufacturers.

Bitium

There are no such reports and even if they were, I mean da!!! You could just see by looking at the filter especially the foam type.


I had the foam filter on my TL for about 2 years with no problems, but because of maintenance I when back to paper. I don't think the filter makes that much different, at least no as much as removing the resornator.

With my past experience, I would keep the paper filter and remove the resornator.

hondamore

Cost is the main factor in deciding to introduce new technology into road cars. The point that I was making was that even cars like the McLaren SLR and Porsche Carrera GT both have carbon/ceramic brakes BUT neither uses an oiled cotton air filter.

psteng19

That's common sense for ya! Good post.
But if unwanted particles are getting into your engine, sensors are the least of your worries

I'm sorry I can't provide you a link from a reputable source.
This was something I read awhile back and google fails me.