I think some one should do an excel chart and compare the Acura cars with Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, etc. And keep that as a sticky for us to check as ref. Maybe one of the mods?

Looks like RL is losing some momentum. At that price point, more people might just want to pay for the nameplate. Acura is always having some trouble with the RL. The exterior design doesn't help either.

 

 

TMQ,

Why do you think $50K is a lot? The competitors are easily much more than that and that is at a base price. Sure buy the status symbol if you like. There are not unusaul issues with Acura than any other competitor will not experience. Lexus, Infiniti, MB abd BMW all have some issues.

Can you show me where Lexus, Infiniti, MB or BMW doesn't have some issues on any model? Acura RL's minimal issues are about whats expected for any redesigned model and I assure you that Lexus and Infiniti will have them also.

I have loved the Germans for a long time an in fact, I have a Porsche 996TT and an SL 500 in my garage. However, the quality is not nearly as good as it was previously and others have taken notice. Automobile magazine has an article in the April issue on page 62 called, " Losing the luster". It addresses the quality being diminished in the German automobiles and how the Japanese are ranking top of the list in quality.

Sales for the Acura are still setting records last I saw (3 days ago).

As far as looks go, all I can say is to each his own. I am not complaining and I dont see any posts here about how ugly the car is.

Where did you see the RL losing momentum?

What can you buy for $49670 + TTL?

Did they not break the record for RL sales last month?

 

And what exactly is it you'd put in the Excel chart? And what's the point? And as for trouble, BMW seems to be having trouble, great trouble with all their more expensive rides; and MB with everything they make; and all Detroit under-engineered, overpriced baroque. So, who's losing momentum?

 

Great post!

 

Yes, that's a very good article. In the same issue (and on the cover) is the unveiling of the new BMW 3 series. Obviously too early to know about quality issues but looks like BMW nailed that one. Nice styling and - at least from the Auto mag writers feedback - a great ride.

 

Yeah it looks like they didn't let Bangle f*ck the 3 series up.. it is after all their best seller (but i still don't like the headlights)

Tracer

 

Someone with the username "Less is Best" talking about luxury. That's kind of an oxymoron (or is it a paradox?)

 

As for how well the RL is selling, a sales manager in the NYC Tri-State area told me it's not doing as well as they had expected. The reason is the leasing "nut" is too high and not really competitive.

 

Normally, Honda/Acura's offer the best value in the class, but I'd say that the M35x edges the RL for the best performance/features/value ratio in this class. The $49,960 M35x with Journey and Tech has stuff like rearview monitor, active cruise, cooling seats, and LDWS, and has more room as well. The RL does have sunshade and Onstar though.

RL sales:

Oct: 1310
Nov: 1941
Dec: 1967
Jan: 1371
Feb: 1412

Looks like losing momentum to me. Hopefully sales will pick up as the RL is a great car, but things just don't look rosy. The GS and M have just been released and March will be the first full selling month for those cars... The 2006 E350 with the new 3.5 engine has just come out. The 2006 530i is coming within a month with an upgraded engine as well as an AWD option.

 

These are typically slow months for auto sales and if you review other makers you will find a dip insales for them also. I just dont have time to do the work now.

I'm fully aware of the E350 and 530i (R6 engine) since my wife chose the RL over those vehicles. However, spec the competing vehicles to get a real comaparison and the price isn't even close on any of the vehicles mentioned in this post. They have the momentum currently since they have the name recognition but those who do thier homework will discover the real value.

Sidenote,

You can't even get all the options the RL has in either the E350 or BMW 5 series even if you wanted to. The AWD options put the cars in an upper $60K range.

 

I'm not a big fan of the German cars at those price points either. Just pointing out that the availability of AWD in the 530xi does not help the RL's cause.

A bigger threat to the RL is the M and the GS. The M35x is the same price, and the GS AWD is about $2000 more. March is the first full month for those cars. Let's see how this month and April turn out.

 

I agree. However, I think it will be the Lexus that really gives the RL a run for its money due to brand recognition. IMO, the M is more car for the money, but people still aren't that familiar with Infiniti.

I realize these boards are made up primarily of "enthusiasts", but take a look at the number of members in the Lexus forum who have already purchased new GS's vs. the number of people in the Infiniti forum who have purchased new M's. Honestly, I'm surprised at the relatively low activity I see in that forum. I want to see the new M do well and it's a bit concerning. Maybe momentum will pick up now that the M is available. Most people coming back from test drives are raving.

 

I agree with you completely...the Lexus will be the Acura's most fierce competition. The Infiniti, as good of a car it actually is, just does not have the recognition. I know that Acura has been in a spot of obscurity with the RL, but I think people will be snagged when they go in to see other vehicles (maybe the TL or MDX). Also, as more and more RLs appear on the road, I think the popularity will pick up.

I know this has been discussed before, but Infiniti just does not have as much recognition as even Acura, which is finally starting to get "up there". You just don't see too many Infiniti's out there on the street, but Acuras on the other hand. To just have the RL at the Acura dealers and even in the showrooms will do a lot. As more and more people go out to purchase TLs and TSXs and MDXs (heck--even RSXs) people will finally start to see that Acura is a luxury player. With that much traffic going through Acura dealers, recognition will continue to build. And when people see the amenities and design, and hear about the SH-AWD, and then see the $50k sticker, they may just start to understand what Acura is all about. Add all of this to the rave reviews of the press and you are sure to grab some attention. "This is the dawn of a new era" for Acura...I really think it is.

I think that is what is missing in the Infiniti equation--is there enough dealership traffic or even street credibility?

 

Like I said...V8 only or no V8 if I WAS RUNNING A COMPANY. I doubt for a company like Honda it'd have made economical sense to design a V8 engine for the RL only to get a few hundred sales a year. See, I work on economics and logic not some retarded "true luxury" opinion crap like some...

So the RL isn't true luxury because of its engine size? Interesting. I guess that is like saying a man isn't a true man unless he has 9" of ding-a-ling. Gotcha...

Wtf...

 

Acura can't help if it there are morons out there who buy a car based on the badge regardless of the actual product. I dont know what you expect them to do to change this...price the RL at 35 grand and lose money on it? That still may not get the target buyers in that they want since it'd still be an acura and the badge whores would still want to get a BMW or MB or even a Lexus.

As for doing some excel sheet...what you'd find is the RL priced far less than comparibly equipped BMW 530, MB E320, a bit less than the GS300 and a bit more than the M35.

Oh and I bet the exterior design HELPS. See, most RL buyers will probably be middle aged people and of all the middle aged people who I have seen checking out the car like the look. I am willing to bet you that if you polled a group of people aged say 40-65 most would prefer the RL's exterior to that of the new GS and possibly M.

 

I am really surprised that prices are dropping as fast as they are for the RL. CarsDirect.com has them about 3K under MSRP in California.

Michael

 

I haven't checked the site for a week, and there's definitely action. I'm a fan of Acura, and was just making a statement regarding RL sales (also personal opinion on the look of the car, but that's another topic).

So I decide to track numbers for the Japanese Luxury sales in the US (see below). I'm saying, despite RL being a nice car, won quite a few journal approvals, and being just out a few months, sales wise it hasn't performed as well as the TSX and TL in the respective segments so far. Maybe after a couple months we'll see a better trend (insufficient data so far), but this is an issue that Acura has and probably will continue to struggle with. (whether most consumers who can afford $50K cars are idiots is another topic).
January February
2005 2005

Acura
TL 4753 5934
TSX 2246 2638
RL 1371 1412

Lexus
ES 330 4487 4583
LS 430 2117 2028
SC 430 462 542
GS 300 434 1602
GS 430 68 345
IS 300 453 428

Infiniti Division Total
I35 411 253
G35 Sedan 3,212 3,941
G35 Coupe 1,661 2,043
M45 90 225
Q45 108 137
QX56 1,263 1,126
FX 1,967 2,062

 

As one of the "idiots" who purchased a $50,000 car (a new RL), I am happy that the RL continues to break sales records each month. I recognize that Lexus will sell a boatload of GS models (they already have more different ads on TV than Acura will film to promote the RL all year). But I didn't buy the GS because, as the latest Car And Driver put it so well, "Another Step Toward Perfection. Hold The Passion".

My RL is very much the apple of my eye. It hasn't let me down in any way since October. Not one problem. None. Nada. Everything is perfection and I go around those corners like I was riding on rails.

Compare the sales numbers if you will. (They're important to many people, I know, for many valid reasons.) But the only sales number that's important to me is 1. (The one I bought.)

 

I'm in the market for a new car and have cross-shopped all the cars in this category. Currently, all the $50K+ cars are having some trouble. Inventory for the RL is at about 10-15 cars at some of the major Acura Dealers in NJ/NY Metro area. What's funny is that the new '06 GS300/G430 has over 30+ cars at one local NJ Lexus Dealer. When I went there last week, the salesguy told me he has only the showroom car and a few others. I went back yesterday (busy day for most dealers) and saw a fleet of GS300's in the back lot. This is a car that I thought pre-sold its entire 1st shipment? I guess not.

In addition, BMW, MB inventories are also very high. My friend was looking at a E320, where the local MB Dealer has about 40+ '05 EClass and 30+ '04's still on the lot, yet he doesn't budge on pricing, ...a few thousand at best, still about $57K for a E320 4matic with the same options as an RL. My friend said, no thank you and is looking at an RL.

In the end, the overall economy will play a bigger role. Seeing that the Acura dealers are aggressively pricing the RL shows that they want to get more cars on the road. Buying a $60K E320 4matic is just too much money for me, I guess.

The Acura RL has gotten rave reviews from all the major press articles. Its a great car and a very distinguished nameplate on the road.

static808

 

That's a really good point. I went to the Lexus dealer close to home yesterday, which is one of the smaller ones in South Florida, and they had 2 GS430's on the lot, along with a few GS300's. One of the salespeople on ClubLexus indicated they were selling the GS430's as fast as they could get them in, but that's clearly not the case. I was driving through the lot and the salesman stopped me and asked if I wanted to take one of the GS430's for a test drive. We took it on an extended test drive. Believe me, they never did that with the SC430 even after it had been out for months. When I went to test drive the SC they only let me drive it around the parking lot.

The inventory situation seems to be pretty much the same with the M35/45. I've been to 2 different dealers and they seem to have plenty on the lot.

Both are great cars, as is the RL, but people just aren't snatching them up the way everyone expected. Maybe the SUV craze has impacted this segment of the market as well.

 

I was just looking on Autotrader.com and there is one private party selling there new RL, that has something to say about the car. I am sure he isn't going to be happy when he sees what they are selling for new.

Michael

 

I went buy Infiniti, Lexus, BMW and Acura yesterday to look at cars. I was just killing time and wanted to see what all the rave was about. I was impressed with each car in it's own right. Each one has a feature to offer and make it stand out in some special manner. However, I also found many cars on each of the dealers lots for nearly all models. The Infiniti was the only one that had a smaller mount of inventory but thosse cars were not sold. My Acura dealer had 14 RL's in almost every color except for the red. BMW seems to be stockpiling cars at this time. Lexus had several GS's and I also saw three 50 something couples looking at them and test driving. However, I asked the guy that I know who works there and he said the sales were not what they had hope for just yet.

My guess is that it is the economy. I suspect that it will pick up next quarter since sales are usually slow in the first quarter. There are only 20K vehicles slated for the US for this year. I do admit that since January I have only seen 4 RL's on the road since we purchased and one of those was the same one I had seen previously. Personally, I like the thought of not driving something that I see all day everyday.

 

Just because someone is selling a car after 4-5 months doens't mean they don't like it. People lose jobs, get divorced. etc One shouldn't make such judgements. And they are not selling for that everywhere.

 

Was your comment from my post?

If it was, then you took it wrong. It shows very well of the RL that only one person in the country has there's listed on Autotrader.

Michael

 

Thanks for explaining. I interpreted it incorrectly as well.

 

We were talking at lunch today, about how cars are be discounted like crazy in California. Some thought it might have been all the rain in Feb, that kept people out and inventories got built up, so they dropped prices to get there inventories down.

Michael

 

Some of you cannot be serious judging how a car sells by the 30 min you spent on 1 car lot. You have got to be kidding. Those cars can be spoken for or all sold the next day. It depends on demand.
There maybe a particular car not selling in VT but a dealer in CA can't get enough of them.

Rob L you have no concept of luxury. B/C your saying that all people need is a V-6. Your a perfect Honda guy, the I-4 TSX (when most everyone else has a 6 cylinder) is stubborn Honda again.

BMW and Benz are PREMIUM brands based on what they offer. V-8s, V-10s now, V-12s. Bi-turbo V-12s, supercharged V-8s. Incredible cars. And no they are not neccessary but they are rare and what the market has to have. And no they don't sell in many numbers but they do offer them.

Luxury=Excess

 

So you know what Luxury is? Why does the majority of those Luxury brands sales ,IE.. MB Benz and BMW sales account for 90% of the luxury brands in 6 cylinders? I dont think Honda is stubborn but followig the premise and concept that they were built upon. own 2 own those luxury brands and you statement doesn't support your thought. Honda develops ULEV vehicles to save the environment. I know this doesn't mean much to some of the selfish people, but I do want those who are here after me to have cleaner air.

I could say the same thing for the Porsche 996TT that I own. Why didn't they put an 8 cylinder in it? Stubborn Porsche? They are definately considered to be far more premium brand than BMW or MB. They have been using that same old boxer engine since the late 50's. It has been redesigned bored and stroked to death. I dont hear you screaming about about the Porsche. I mean each year they give you 10-25 more horses. Why not put a V8 in it and turbo charge that? I think the 4000 HP is plenty enoug for me.

I also think the 300 HP the RL has is plenty for me . A V8 isn't going to make the difference in the RL. Brand recognition is based on reliabilty. As I have stated before, the japanese are taking over the market on reliability and luxury. The germans are just not up to the task anymore. I find myself looking at the japanese cars to obtain both.

 

Why are folks here responding to that jerk, LessisBestmakingendsmeet, I'm sure he's driving a big luxury German car with a V24 in it because that means "LUXURY".

Let him be what he is, whatever that is, and just forget about him and go on to another post where people know cars.

 

Please ignore him!

 

MB, and BMW sell more V6's than V8's because of the cost. I'm sure if everyone could afford to spend an average of $10K more for a MB V-8 they would. But I think most people just want to "keep up with the Jones" if you know what I mean. I think the V8's, 10's and 12's are for people who really have the money and can afford the car. Just my

 

I know the original topic concerned how well the RL is selling, but along those same lines I had a conversation with my salesman at Infiniti yesterday (I've leased 2 cars from him) and he said the M hasn't been selling as well as expected. I asked if they'd gotten a new shipment in and he said they have just about every color in stock.

This is pretty much in line with the earlier posts re: sales of $50K+ mid-size sedans. The RL is now being discounted, and based on what I heard yesterday the M may not be far behind. I don't see GS's flying out the door either, although Lexus should experience stronger sales due to brand recognition.

 

I don't think it is just the 50K sector, The Honda Ridgeline has not been selling either, they had huge dealer markups, and know you can easily her them 1K under MSRP.

I wonder if people are getting worried about the economy?

 

I'd have to agree with you on your post. Paying $50K+ for a mid-size sedan...which uses premium petro....is kind of scary alone. My TL uses so much gas, and don't let me drive aggressive...it really burns the fuel. My RL in the city isn't any better. But for some strange reason, my wife's XJ SUPER seems to fair better on the expressway. I guess because of the larger fuel tank.

 

It is kind of ironic that you talk about the TL being a gas guzzler, then quote the XJ SUPER as fairing better on the freeway because it has a larger fuel tank?? Are you also saying the the XJ is more fuel efficient, or just that it can go further on a single full-up 'cos of the big tank?

Pete

 

Well lets do the math... I drove approx. 484 miles from a little town in Arkansas to Peoria, Illinois on one tank of fuel in the XJ. Was traveling with 4 other vehicles; Ford Taurus, Mazda 6, Cadillac STS, and an GMC Envoy. All those vehicles had to stop once to fill up...I didn't refuel until I arrived in Peoria. Of course running premium fuel at $2.12 per gallon at the time..give or take a few cents, a full tank only cost me about $40 or $42 dollars. Where as in my TL a full tank of premium is about $35 here in Detroit. So yes I'm saying the XJ got better gas mileage than the Acura. Maybe it's because the XJ is has an all aluminum body?? If you would have read my post..you'd notice I never said the Acura was a gas guzzler...never! Please read more carefully! Thanks

 

I didn't try to put words in your mouth, that's just the way I read your post...and I did read it carefully, as I do all posts. Maybe if you re-read it as someone else would, you might see what I mean....it wasn't exactly clear

But you answered my main question, I just wasn't sure if you were really saying that the Jag is more efficient, or just has a bigger tank, I wasn't challenging you on your data.

Cheers

Pete

 

Why are RL's selling for less than $45,900 in Cali?

 

I think it has to due with the record rain fall this year, we are at the second all time rain fall for over 132 years. People don't want to look at cars when it rains.

Michael