I’ve been shopping the RL seriously now for a couple weeks and have taken a test drive along with the M35x and GS350AWD. After the dust has settled a bit, I find myself asking a few questions. Why am I so nit picky about the RL? Why am I more willing to overlook some glaring faults in the Lexus?

After the drives, my immediate decision making process was that the RL was good but not inspiring. On a practical level, it probably is the best fit, all things considered. I kept thinking, the RL has a few faults here and there, but I think I like the M and GS slightly more. I should have been thinking, is the M and GS really worth 20 to 25% more? Hell No!

I am probably more logical than most and yet I did not think this through logically. At the RL’s current price, perhaps the comparison should be, is it worth a couple of thousand more than a decked out ES350 or a TL? Absolutely! At a $7K jump to the M and GS, we are starting to look at the decision to buy a GS versus ES. Are these cars one tier better than the RL? No way.

I will confess that branding and the press influence me. My preconceived view is that Lexus is a cut above Acura and Infiniti and that an “equivalent” car will cost a little more (somewhat like MB and BMW). Because it’s a Lexus, I was perhaps willing to accept sitting on the floor due to lack of headroom, a strange hump in the foot well, having little storage capacity and a very tight back seat that would make long trips for the family less than optimal. The complaints I had about the Acura were nitpicks in comparison. What’s wrong with me? I will admit the low sales numbers and lack lustre reviews gave me a poor perception of the vehicle going in. I couldn’t help but think there must be something wrong with the car and subconsciously it need to wow me to be considered. This is flawed thinking on my part (Herd mentality as well).

Like many, I review and research like crazy. I’m beginning to think one is better off doing minimal research and going for test drives first.

Should not the decision logic be as follows:

- At the current price is the RL much better than an ES or TL (which are slightly less)?
- The GS and M are much more expensive, almost the next “tier” up in cost. Is the RL competitive with them?

Using that logic, people, myself included, should be busting down the doors to get this car. But alas car buying is such an emotional decision isn’t it?

I will take Vodoc’s advice and drive them again next week with my wife. She doesn’t know anything about cars, other than general brands. We will see how it goes. But I am warming up to the RL.

OK, I will get off the psychiatrist couch now…

 

I will say though that I am having seconf thoughts about parent company Toyota's quality. I have a 2004 Land Cruiser which is essentially a Lexus LX470. They really are identical vehicles.

In the three years I've owned the car, I've had the following go.

Multi-function (aka Nav Screen) - $5,000 (yes that's $5,000) part to replace
Head unit - Blue tooth problem $700

Now the Backup camera has gone blank and I have an appointment to bring it in this afternoon.

Fortunately I bought an extended warranty up to 100K miles as I can't imagine having to pay for these repairs.

And it's not like I could say "Oh well, I'll live without the Nav", since the multifunction display controls the audio and the HVAC.

 

Yes, you can nitpick either car to death - bottom line is what makes you happy. I have been in the Honda/Acura family since 1983 but have always looked at other choices when the time to buy has come. I have always returned to the H/A family because of value/$$$/relaibility. I truly feel the RL has gotten a bad reputation from the media - which has caused sales to plummet. Good for buyers, bad for resellers. I plan on keep ing my gorgeous Black/parchment for years to come. I never thought I would pay +$40K for a car but I left feeling good after the purchase due to what $41,144 got me in comparison. Recently I was looking to replace my wife's '04 RSX-S with an '07 G35 coupe 6MT - $38500. No way I will do that now knowing what I got the RL for.

 

Forget the RL and the others and buy an MDX, especially since you have a family and all their stuff to haul on trips.

 

I'm a huge Lexus fan and it is my fav car line. I got to drive a GS300 AWD for a bit a year ago and there is no way it is superior to the RL. The best thing I could say about the GS compared to the RL was that at speed it was quieter than the RL and only a few materials seemed a bit better and it did have a couple minor features that the RL should have...oh and its turning radius was far better as the RL's sucks hard. Nothing though could justify the difference in price especially since the RL can drive circles around it in the handling area.

The RL is a great car and if it was under the Lexus, MB or BMW brand it'd clearly be selling better and more that discount it now would praise it. IMO the biggest issue it has is simply because it is "only" an Acura.

You probably nitpick it more simply because since it doesnt have the "prestige" you feel it needs to be perfect to earn your dollar. Just like some people would blow off mega character flaws for someone they may find "hot" while they would nitpick the character of someone who they find has avg looks.

It is just a weird human thing that most do. Me personally? I nitpick the higher priced or "more hyped/attractive" stuff.

 

i have test driven the RL and M45 sport before deciding on the M45S. I drove the M35x on the way to drop off my previous car at home and returning to the dealership.

Between the RL and M45 sport, I chose the m45 sport. It obviously cost more but I was in the position that I didn't have to sacrifice much if I didn't want to. If it was between the M35x and RL, it would be a lot closer and I would probably choose the RL.

A few nitpicks during my RL test drive...

there was a constant rattle from the rear (probably the sunshade). The tranny felt lethargic when I merged onto the freeway...i heard it downshift (and tach needle swing up), but the acceleration wasn't "inspiring". But then again, I'm comparing it to the acceleration in an M45.

As for the M35x, I agree that it feels "harsher" on the road than an RL, but nowhere near unacceptable (same with the m45 sport)...but that's the tradeoff for a sportier suspension and rims and it's much of a tradeoff unless you're a stickler for a smooth and uninspiring ride. I wasn't a fan of the wood trim in the m35x...it's nice but not my thing. The acceleration felt torquier than the RL, but i couldn't tell if it was actually torquier or because the RL was just smoother on downshifts.

As for the GS...I checked them out but was disappointed before even test driving it. the dealership had 6 in stock at the time (only 1 V8, the rest were v6 or AWD). Thing that turned me off was that every single one had fogged up headlights and it hadn't rained for several days (it was nice and sunny out that day too). Last i heard, the GS was hurting Lexus's initial quality scores (not by much, but its still on the wrong side of the equation).

I have not had any quality problems on my M45 sport (first year model)...except a minor problem that I created but fixed. And i have not regretted choosing it over any other car after having it for well over a year. And in 6" of snow and sleet this past winter on several occasions, I have had no problems with RWD and snow tires.

 

Great post and excellent comparo, mrdeeno!

noobie, you'd make a great member of the RL board here. We overanalyze what we like and don't like about the RL around here, don't we? Logic says the RL is the best (offers the most for the buck) but then those human emotions like response to branding get in the way..... I say, you need to leap off the psychiatrist's chair and drive each car again. Very difficult decision you have here...

Good luck!

 

Noobie.. reading what you wrote echo's a lot of the same things I've thought too.
In the end I did exactally what you did. I said, this car is SOOO much better than the ES and BMW 330i (which my friend bought loaded for almost $48K!)
I initially was comparing the TL to the Lexus IS, BWM 3, MB C. Then I started looking at used BMW 5's, MB E's and a base bottom GS.

I drove the RL and bought it the next day (after looking at all of the others for months). I felt like I was getting a much better car than the IS or 3 Series... and I felt like I was getting a huge discount over the GS.

I must admit I wanted the GS badly. But couldn't get myself to pay the Lexus premium. And I truly feel that the build quality is at least as good if not better on the Acura.

Now having driven it for almost a year...and having had a close friend buy the GS. I must say that I am enjoying my 'exclusivity'. I enjoy having a car that's on the fringe a bit. The parking lot at work is full of MB, BMW, Lexus.

I think this must be how Saab owners feel.

 

I already have a MDX to haul the kids around. We use it all the time. I was hoping to get a car that we could use for short trips on weekends and the occasional longer trip and leave the MDX in the garage once in a while.

I think I will test drive in reverse order this time. I think that with memory we might lean towards the last car driven and like the first one the least. I'll test the theory with the GS, M and RL in that order.

 

I'm a fish out of water looking at the RL cause I usually buy coupes. And I look at it as a used car buyer. Few cars seem worth over $40k to me.

Like my 03 Acura CLS 6MT and Legend coupes before I like the exclusivity of the RL. Main draws for me are the interior, tech features and reliability. I was looking at an 06 RL Sat at the Audi dealer (asking $34,888), but it sold today.

The Infiniti M is not an attractive car IMO, inside or out. The Lexus are pretty and smooth but a little boring to me. I feel Honda reliability is better than Toyota, which is having huge growing pains and increased reliability problems.

I'd really like an RL coupe with MT option, but I could drive an RL while I wait for Acura to decide if they want to compete in the growing coupe market, (new BMW, new Infiniti, upcoming Audi A5, even the Altima).

If price is a top factor the RL is hard to beat IMO, used or bargain-priced new.

 

I have been in the exact same position and ended up buying the M35X.

You are very right about the M35X being louder and a bit rougher, but I find it great fun to drive. It is not, however, as much fun as an Audi I drove in the past - but it is fun for a Japanese engineered and designed car. Have you considered the A6? A wonderful driving car and you'll make lots of new friends at the service department

The only advice I would think I have for you is - forget the few/ several thousand dollars as being a deciding factor in your choice. Yes $42k is alot of money and at $46k - the M35X is a good 10% more. But once you own the car and you drive it everyday and it is going to be yours for several years - the money almost seems irrelevant.

Imagine - do you really think every one of the several dozen times you accelerate from a stop every single day you'll say to yourself, "Well, that was pretty lame - but heh! - I saved 4 grand?"

You are going to spend more than $40,000 for a CAR, when you could get a perfectly fine one for $30,000 or less. It's an indulgence - so indulge - make sure it's what you want because we don't get to do this everyday - or at least I sure don't.

I really agonized over the extra money, but I would have been so bummed if I bought a car for all this money and it wasn't fun to drive.

This is fun and anybody who owns a car like any of these is a lucky dude or dudette. So have fun - if you're agonizing, take a chill.

I'd advise you either wait until you can comfortably ( meaning psychologically) afford the car you want.

SC

 

I enjoyed the honesty of your original post. With the advent of the internet, there's no end to information at our fingertips (i.e. these boards, wiki, google, etc...) it's soooooo easy to over analyze and to a certain extent, justify decisions.

And let's face it, no matter how much logic we try to inject into the car buying process, it still remains a very "emotional" decision, especially for enthusiasts. Sometimes it really does come down to how the car makes you "feel". And from your hesitation on the RL, it seems that the Lexus will fulfill that aspect for you. So don't feel too bad for wanting the psychiatrist's chair

 

I’m not really agonizing over the money. It’s not a matter of money. If I were going to use this car a lot, I would seriously consider a LS460. After the drives, I was ready to order a new 07 or 08 GS350 for about $47K or so. That night I was wondering why my right leg was cramped up a bit and it was from hanging it over that silly hump in the wheel well that doesn’t let you move your leg around very much when driving. That started to get me to think about the teeny trunk and tight back seat.

My point was, why was I willing to accept those faults in a Lexus while I was holding the Acura to a very high standard. Then it got me thinking about the price and that the RL with incentive is really priced at the ES level and it is by far a superior vehicle to the ES. Which led me to think about the logic I was using to decide. I was justifying the extra cost of the M and the GS, which is reasonably large and almost the gap that one would find in model tiers. At this price should the RL really be compared with the M and GS? Should it not be compared with ES and TL and G? The RL is competitive (subjective) with the GS and M, but priced like an ES. That should make these things fly off the lots, but it’s not happening. Why not? Which leads to my question, do we (car buying public) expect too much from the beleaguered RL and suffer from a group think mentality brought on by the auto press and poor sales numbers? I guess soem of us build elaborate spreadsheets and computer programs to evaluate the cars and when it comes time to sign on the dotted line we throw it all away and go by gut feel.

 

Noobie, the real issue may have to do with what you intend to do with the new car. Will most of your driving involve day-to-day commuter traffic and highway cruising on vacation days? If so, the RL probably fits well. OTOH, if you drive aggressively (or as someone says spiritedly), the M may seem better because it accelerates faster and its exhaust sounds louder. Lexus (LS, GS and/or ES) seems to cater more to luxury than sportiness, and is otherwise refined, but pricey. The German cars are great, particularly if you crave for recognition and prestiage, except when you compare their reliability against the Japanese.

So, it is matter of figuring out what really suits your need and style, while at the same time trying to get more bang for your buck. Even if money is not an issue, I think we all want to tell ourselves that we made a sound economic decision in choosing the most appropriate car.

 

Those aren't faults in the Lexus, it is their uncompromising approach to a mid-luxury sports sedan. Lexus has drilled it into our heads that "this is what a mid-luxury sports sedan is". We treat it as the benchmark, because in a way they do set the trend. Once you accept Lexus as a standard of sorts, other cars get held to that standard. The RL is not the benchmark. Typical of a Honda product, its compromise is to do many things well across the board, so that means nothing stands out (except overall competence).

The discounting makes for a great price point for the RL, but tarnishes it somewhat as a car "not worth the sticker price"; thus not competitive in its class (when it really is). I cross-shopped the RL with the TL, the ES, the GS, the M, and the G, and chose the RL. (Funny that all the effort to name cars with letters doesn't have us including the brand name (bring back the Legend name, already)).

I think the RL spans several "tiers", and acquits itself well. There's a comparison test at Edmunds Inside Line that pitted the 2005 RL against AWD versions of the GS300, 530Xi, M35x, and A6. There's also a test against the GS430 and M45. They make for good reading, and might help with your decision.

 

A little over a year ago I was in the same boat as you. I REALLY was hooked on the looks of the GS, especially after I went and closely looked one over at the dealer. For kicks, I then looked at the RL. While to me the GS slightly edged the RL from the exterior, I absolutely fell in love with the interior of the RL. It instantly won me over, and the rest is history.

In hindsight, these are other factors that have sealed the deal for me.

As I mentioned before, I have a Toyota Land Cruiser that has the same Nav that is used in the Lexus products. So....

Voice recognition in the Toyota/Lexus vehicles is absolutely worthless compared to the system in Acura vehicles. This is a feature that I feel is truly overlooked, as people don't truly try this feature out, but try it. I have since abandoned using that feature in my LC. Wander over to ClubLexus and you'll find similar posts about people having difficulty using this feature. In the Acura it really works, it isn't just a gimmick.

Navigation system usability - What good is the Navigation system when you're cruising down the interstate and unless you know the hack, you have to pull over to enter the destination? THis is compunded by the fact that you can't even use voice recognition because it's worthless. Having experienced both, Acura makes these best Nav units on the market... PERIOD.

SH-AWD - A much more sophisticated system than what is offered in the competition, and yes, the RL is meant to compete with the M35x, and the GS AWD.

I still notice the GS on the road, and I think it is a very sharp vehicle, but I have also grown to appreciate the subtle look of the RL as well.

The M was never a factor.. THe looks never called out to me. Over the year after noticing them more, they have begun to grow a bit more on me, but not enough for me to wish I had purchased one. I kinda felt the same way about the 1st gen G35, now the 2nd gen GS reskin was a subtle but huge improvement for me. I really like the looks of that car. If the M evolves in a similar fashion, I would imagine I would feel differently about it.

I was on spring break vacation with my family for over a week. I truly missed my car and couldn't wait to get back and drive it. I've had it 11 months and put 15k miles on it. I'm more in love with it know than I have ever been.

I have never felt like I compromised and the discounts were just a huge bonus for me.

Good Luck.

 

Its interesting that my wife and I arrived at an RL from a slightly different vantage point, namely price, value and safety. My wife is an accountant, and pretty much demands "all the numbers" and the proceeds to crunch the hell out them. My forte is the research end (reading reviews, etc.) While we entertained the Lexus GS (and even RX, as the wife leans towards SUV's because she's short), and the infiniti M and G, the RL was the clear winner, especially with the discounting going on.

The GS and M could not be had with anything near the same features as the RL for under 50K, especially in AWD. The RX was even $2K more and doesn't have near the handling. In my research, I compared the postings on various Lexus forums with those here on Acurazine. You see alot more "problem with" postings than you do here. I also found the Lexus tech features less user friendly and useful than Acuras, particularly the navigation functions. In addition, Lexus has only really recently attempted to improve the handling of their vehicles, as their emphasis has usually been on smooth ride. I like a car than handles well, so Lexus for us was easy to eliminate based on price and handling issues.

Infiniti did grab our attention, but both wife and I had issues with Nissan products in the past, although that may not be entirely fair since various reports state that they have turned things around. Certainly the M is a great car, but with similar options to the RL, as mentioned elsewhere, is alot more money. I also was not enamored with the looks of the M's exterior. The G, on the other hand, I thought was a hot little car, but it is smaller and less luxurious. In addition, with all the tech options, the price hits around 39K. For a few K more, you are in an RL.

The wife loves Honda/Acura's price structure, because the "bundling" of options makes comparing prices between dealerships easier. Toyota/Lexus will make your head spin with all the various options packages. In addition, some information about Lexus's invoice prices on various options is not easily found. We wonder if Lexus does this deliberately in order to make it more difficult to compare cars from various dealerships, etc. Infiniti was kind of in between, not as easy as Acura, but easier than Lexus. The wife was much happier dealing with Acura, because it is very important, in her eyes, that we "get a good deal".

As for the resale value issue, I'd rather save a solid $5 to $8K or so via the discount NOW, which I could stick in a CD or stock or whatnot and get some interest or gain, than pay $8K more for a Lexus/Infiniti that I MIGHT (or might not, one never knows!) get a better resale value for later.

Lastly (or maybe it really should be firstly) the safety issue. The RL is one of the safest cars around. Yeah, that may not be sexy to some, but when some of the people you work with have bad brains and broken bodies, you learn that its critical. In fact, if you look at the safety statistics from various websites (I like Informed for Life, as they have a handy formula that combines the various crash tests together with weight and other variables), I think that nearly all of Acura's line up are in the top quartile, even the SUV offerings (RDX/MDX).

The wife and I did go through the whole "Lexus mystique" thing. She works in a big office and "having a Lexus" vs "having an Acura" is not equal (Lexus wins, hands down). While perception may be reality in terms of office talk and opinion, its not reality in terms of the cars themselves and their prices. When you logically work it out, ignore the peer pressure and perception issues, and get down to the car itself and its value for the price, the RL simply wins out.

 

Excellent write up!

 

As a LONG TIME Nissan/Infiniti owner including a 300zx Convertible, Pathfinder, Pathfinder Armada, Quest Van (IT WAS THE WIFE's!), I30 and most recently G35 Coupe (which I LOVED), I had my eye on the M35x initially. I really like the car and love the Infiniti brand, but for price, features and even style (IMHO), I prefer the look of the RL. I'm thrilled I made the decision to go with the RL. I'm also glad we moved from the South so I wanted an AWD or I'd still be cruising around in my G35 and never known how great the RL could be!

 

Godwhacker,

We must share some common DNA strands! I go through very much the same thought process and analysis. The ironic part is that, although I can finally ignore the purchase price to a reasonable degree with this vehicle, the practical side of me takes over. I will admit, if Lexus had made a more spacious GS, I would order one even if it was $10K more. Don't care for the unreliable BMWs and MBs. My brother's 330xi stranded him three times in two years and they took the car for 3 weeks to change the engine Who needs that?

Going out again next week with my wife. Methinks that the initial "fun" of the M35x may wear off over time and the noisy bumpy ride will start to annoy. Found a blog review somewhere written by an owner who basically stated as much.

Unfortunately, I am on three week trip to Asia after that. Wonder if I can close a deal on a car from 12 time zones away

Jaysmith2000: what did think of your I30?