DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Alright, guys, here's the skinny...I am in the market for a newer car, and with the current prices of the RLs, my curiosity is piqued. I have narrowed my choices down to an RL or a 2004ish Lexus LS430. Each has their own pros and cons, I'll compare the two in a moment. I drive about 100miles per day, so obviously a nice cruiser is nessecary. So...

LS-430
Pros:
Dead quiet
Extremely comfortable
Proven reliability

Cons:
Ugly green/amber lighting
Questionable button layout
Thirsty car

RL
Pros:
Quiet
Comfortable
Incredible interior

Cons:
Questionable reliability

So, the question is, if you had to decided, which would you choose?

TSX69

I assume you meant RL when you typed TL ... ?

Anyhow, it is hard to pick one over the other since they are in different classes so to me, the decision is based more on things like what size/price you want. I would go for the RL since the LS430 would be too big & floaty for my tastes.

That being said, I wonder why you think that the RL has questionable reliability? Acura & Lexus are both known to be solid vehicles & I would be more inclined to trust the RL because it has been out since 2005, meaning they have had ~4 years to work out the kinks. The LS430, I believe, is 2 years old so would be more likely to have some teething issues. Either would probably be fine tho.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

lol, yeah...that's what I get for posting at 2am

Yes, the suspension is a bitt stiffer on the RL, and to be honest, it's stiffer in a very good way
There are countless tales of the electrical gremlins, the field stator for the A/C, and other little things that have been faulty on the RL. While one would hope that a used RL would have said problems resolved, you never know...


Ah, I believe you're thinking the LS460; the LS430 was from 2001-2006 and picked up nearly every damn award imaginable for quality.

neuronbob

The RL does not have questionable reliability. There are some electronic issues and AC issues with the 2005, but there are TSBs to deal with them. Once dealt with, it's pretty reliable.

Between the two, I think the RL is the better looking, but that's purely subjective on my part. Frankly, though, you couldn't go wrong with either.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

The RL stands out much more than any LS model, even the new LS460. RL has some quirks but also some shortcuts which Lexus does not practice. Having owned multiple Lexus's and now an RL I can say that the RL does not compare in terms of overall build quality. Not to say the RL is bad, just Lexus is that good.
But, I can say that between the two I would take the RL-obviously as I own one. I drive a canyon road for over 30 miles each day and the LS would simply go off the side.
You cannot go wrong with either car.

My assessment:

Build quality-Lexus easy
Tech features-draw
Drivetrain-Lexus for motor, RL for SHAWD
Handling-RL easy-see above
Aesthetics- RL
Comfort-LS
Ride-LS for comfort, RL for sport
Dealer service-easy Lexus win, visiting Acura is akin to visiting Ford
Rarity-RL, I see LS's all day long and frankly they are boring. The RL has a very unique style to it. Conservative aggressive as I call it.

I would suggest you go sit down and write down was it important to you without regard to either vehicle. Then match your list up with both cars and you will have a winner.

TSX69

Ok so like a 2004 LS430 & what year RL? Since the RL has a lower base price & I assume worse resale value, you can probably get a newer one for the same price as the LS. Let us take a look @ Edmunds for a value reference:

• 2004 LS430: ~$23,000
• 2005 RL: ~$23,000

Is that right? I would have thought there would be a bigger gap even w/ the 1 year difference.

Anyhoo, I say newer is better so go for whichever is the youngest car: in this case, probably the RL which may still be under the original warranty.

Blazing GT

being a RL owner, I would have to choose the LS430!

That car, when done right is dead drop gorgeous.

vas25tl

09 RL is not the same price as a 04 LS430. The LS430 can be had under $23K with decent mileage.

And I would go for the LS personally...just my opinion. It's not as much fun to drive but if I had to be stuck in a car for 100 miles a day I'd go for luxury, which is exactly what the LS is like.

I drove an 04 for about 3 weeks back when I used to sell cars and I have to say it's one of the smoothest quiet rides I've ever had. Smoother than the S class, def smoother than the 7 series....

bkw

05 RL owner here, and had owned an 06 LS430 for 8 months before going to an SUV. The RL is a lot more modern and has better tech features. The LS' navi sucks. Can't put it any better than that. Another feature the RL beats the LS in is the selection of buttons and knobs. The LS felt outdated, almost 1998-ish.

But other than those two quirks, the LS430 is a far superior car. It's larger, more powerful, quieter, handles better, smoother.. you get the idea. The RL on the other hand is smaller than the TL and an Accord, the SH-AWD is a blessing and is quite nice, but it's not RWD biased and thus not 'spirted' enough for me.

We kept the RL because it was my wife's car and it pretty much suited her to a T. We've had some quirks (windshield wipers, dash lights, timing belt tensioner bolt, AFS, XM, drivetrain whine, etc), but none of them were that serious and were taken care of promptly (with the exception of the wipers), and we're paying dearly for repair now that we're out of warranty.

This summer we'll be replacing the RL, and definitely not with any of Honda's offerings. We've experienced some of the worst client/customer service ever by local dealerships and client services. Having owned 21 Honda motor products it's going to be tough, but in the end, I'm sure it'll be worth it.

TonyCD

Does it snow where you live?

If not, ESC makes SH-AWD pretty unnecessary, though it's still a good thing in some ways. In that case, I wouldn't put up with the Acura's limited room, extra weight and mediocre gas mileage. Besides a 5-year-old Lexus, you might also want to check out a brand new Hyundai Genesis. A well-done, shameless imitation of Lexus road manners and appointments, less than $10G more, and that's brand new with a 10/100 warranty.

If it does snow where you live, I personally wouldn't (and don't, and won't) have RWD anything. Get some better tires on the RL, and you'll rule the world.

TSX69

I do not think that he is looking for a 2009 RL; in the title of his thread there is a colon after the 09, so the year reflects the time he wants to make the decision & not the year of the RL. I made the same mistake @ 1st as well.









Based upon looks I say that I like the RL much better as the LS430 looks a bit dated; the interiors are about equal but I give the edge to the RL bc I am not a fan of wood & it has less.

afjock21

If you're talkin' about an older Lexus LS, then hell noo! Definitely RL! The previous model LS is so freakin dated it ain't even funny. Just look at the pics above. At night you would really be able to tell how they look practically 10 yrs apart. Plus, I love the blue lighting inside the RL.

OTOH, if you're talkin a current model LS, then, well... LS!

vas25tl

^I don't see how the 04-05 LS is outdated....

LS will also hold the resale value better.

afjock21

While I think the outside of an LS is pretty good to look at, 'cept for the taillights that is, I think the inside is just too older looking.

I guess the value will still hold strong being a Lexus, but I would personally get sick of touching old looking buttons and knobs, and feeling like I'm driving an older car.. resale value or not. I just need to feel like the cabin is going to still seem new a couple yrs from now, which will happen in the RL, but not the LS. But I mean the RL was made until just last year, and the inside is still practically the same on the MMC 09 model. The older LS isn't even made anymore and hasn't for a couple years. I guess what I'm saying is Acura sees it's interior in the RL still relevevant and stylish enough to keep using up until this point in time. Also, I hate the green lighting up top of the nav in the LS.

But.. everyone has their own preference.

btw, you can get an RL THEN in a few yrs get one them NEW LS(es), which will be used and older then. That's my plan!

vas25tl

I don't know why the complaints with the Lex nav system, I think it's one of the easier ones to use. Please go use BMW's or Mercedes NAV and tell me Lexus sucks....

I agree that the RL looks more techy savy but the Lexus doesn't lack any features. It has all of your essentials right there and is done within a fine beautifully interior. Take a look at the interiors of the early 90's LS400's and they've held up pretty nice.

I like both cars but if it came down, my own personal preference is the Lexus, I think it's a better built car.

Just my

vas25tl

You just stated that the Lexus does in fact hold resale value better and then you said to get an RL until you can afford the other Lexus....I don't think that's the financially correct thing to do.

afjock21

Yeah, you might be right it's not financially sound.. but the fact of the matter is I like the newer look and feel of an RL, which I think would be warranty(d) up better than a previous model LS.

I don't think they'll be a dramatic difference in value a few years from now, but if it's a grand or 2 then that's fine to me. I wasn't in the market for an older LS anywho, I really was comparing the RL more with a M35X, but that's a different story.

I believe the LS is a V8, so that's a little bit a difference right there.. I think overall the LS is a little bit better OVERALL, but like I said before, I wasn't in the market for it since it didn't suit my style and it's a bigger car.

Fortunately, you can't go wrong with either...

afjock21

Oh, and stopping to map out a route on the nav is a negative... Probably can somehow hack that though, I would hope.

vas25tl

^ I'm pretty sure you can change anything while driving.

037

100 miles ride...sounds like a job for 09 RL with ACC (active cruise control), punch in 90mph, get behind a person you like and it will drive it self :-)

Superb

Yea, that is the feature I hate most about Lexus. You can't change nav input, or dial via bluetooth phone on the screen, or change folders on your mp3 cd if you are traveling faster than 5 or 10 mph.

There's a way to hack it (cutting and splicing of wires), but from reading the DIY over on CL it seems pretty involved.

vas25tl

^I'm almost 100% sure I was able to change map route while I had an 04 LS430....

Superb

Maybe on an '04, but the new generation IS and GS both limit that function.

vas25tl

^ wow that is annoying....I understand the safety part of it but that would get on my nerves pretty fast.

bkw

06 LS430 here - all the buttons (minus cancel route) are grayed out. Meaning you cant create a new itinary, but you can reroute if necessary.

But there is a simple, albeit annoying, hack you can perform at every start of the car that'll give you access to features while moving.

Rob L

My parents have a LS430 with the backseat luxury package. I have a 05 RL.

First, the LS430 is no more worse on mileage than the RL. I'd even say it is slightly superior.

As for comparing them, they are both great cars and it comes down to what you value more: If it is handling/driving "fun" then clearly the RL is better. if it is max luxury then the LS is better.

Styling wise, i think they are equal and no way would I agree with the poster who said the LS430 looks outdated...although, if current styling like the TL and 09 RL are the sign of the times then give me a dated design like the LS every single time.

I do not live with my parents but we work together so we car pool and I occasionally drive the LS to/from work and I enjoy driving it but I prefer driving the RL. When I am a passenger though I would choose the LS every single time....unless in the snow then I'd want someone driving the RL.

db22

But you cannot recall Mem 1 or 2 while in "Drive" in the RL or check TPMS while in cruise. It makes you wonder if car designers can actually drive or do we still have to eliminate an attorney every minute until we run out of 'em!

Superb

^no biggie about the seats, i can't do that now with my TL! Can't miss what you never had, but I would def get irritated that I couldn't change my itinerary on the fly.

I also though the location of the control knob on the RL (i will miss touchscreens) would be a pain but after toying with voice commands, I dont think that will be an issue...

db22

The RL control knob is great. The new TL has it and the MDX has it. The MDX is not as well placed as your arm is dangling in mid air but the RL is perfect and fast. I absolutely hate touch screens - they have finger marks all over them, invariably enter the wrong character and frequently need a few taps to recognise an input. The RL is the benchmark of all cars that I have ever used - great interface, great features and a great control knob. If all systems were like a BMW then there would be piles of cars at the bottom of cliffs! Mercedes is pretty bad, Infiniti and Lexus behind Acura. Honda is behind Acura too because they have a silly joystick and touchscreen although I'm not sure of the I/F in the new Accord.

larrynimmo

The RL represents a sports/Luxury car...the LS430 in a Luxury/Buick car.

What kind of driver are you.

A good friend of mine had both an LS 430 and then an LS460L. He told me that there is no comparison between the two vehicles. The 460 while is still very smooth, has a sporty feel to it that the 430 lacks.

GoHawks

I would concur that it depends on on your tastes. While they are both luxury cars, the RL is the sportier of the two.

I will also wholeheartedly agree on a previous posters comment on the NAV. An older Lexus will most likely have the Gen IV nav. While there is nothing wrong with it (aside from the annoying lockout). It's not even in the same ball park as the Nav in the RL.

Quality-wise, given my experience with the electronics in my Land Cruiser which has many of the same features that they had in Lexus at that time (same Nav, back up camera, etc.), I would say reliability would be a draw. Saying that, our Land Cruiser has 96K miles and it feels just like it did the day we drove it new off the lot.

I've owned this car for close to three years, and while I pride myself in reading the manuals from front to back so I can exploit all the technology, I continually find new features.

My wife just bought me the new Nav DVD, so I'm all set.

As others said, you won't go wrong either way, it's just what you prefer.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

You can easily bypass the Lexus feature with an aftermarket module which will open all nav inputs while moving. No brainer. And to be honest, 99.9% of people out (all believe that they are good drivers) there should not be tinkering around with the nav while driving anyhow. There should be a $1000.00 drivers course with 200 hours behind the wheel before someone is allowed to operate any cel phone or nav system while in motion. The current drivers license qualification system is entirely too easy and all to often people are too ignorant or arrogant to believe that they are placing others in danger while using these gadgets-myself included.

Or raise the current fine exponentially.
But you have your opinions from everyone. The LS is built like a tank, the RL is built like a.....RL.

db22

When you buy a Lexus you shouldn't have to go aftermarcket to get it to work as desired. That said, if the interface for the features is as bad as a Lexus then maybe it should be locked out. Not that the Lexus is the worst, it's just that it's not as good as the RL and the RL interface was designed in 2004. The ease of operation should be getting a lot better by now. To have to bypass the stupid text from the lawyers is another unnecessary step, it would be great if an accident could be attributed to the driver having to read that BS and then sue the a$$holes that put it there. That would be justice but we only have a legal system not a justice system.
The touchscreen in my Honda (same as old TL) is dangerous, too much looking and editing to input anything useful. The RL is much safer due to the ease of operation. The I/F should be dynamic, I.E. most drivers have patterns of operation, they should be prioritorized. Each command in the DB should be replaced with the drivers command subsequent to confirmation. I.E. "Climate Control Full Automatic" is one of my most used commands. When I say it and the girl reads it back then I confirm the instruction. At that point the voice that I used should over-write the girls voice so that the next time the command is used then the similarity would be much closer. It is always easier to recognise a single person than to design a recognition system that catches all.
How about a page of macros? I have situations where I want the car configured a certain way, E.G. going to work. I could recover Macro #1 and all of the controllable features would be set. 8 Macros would do for me. I know that it's like Mem 1 and 2 but the Macro would be all encompassing. Just a thought?

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Kind of like buying aftermarket parts to get a camera to work on a 05 or buying items to give the RL some real balls because Acuras are very much underpowered?

Have no idea what point you are trying to make here but will take a stab at it. The Acura has the legal stop point also. Many including myself consider the Lexus nav to be much easier to navigate with it's touch screen vs the Acura system. Lexus has always been touch screen, Acura followed them? Either way, any system that allows manual input while driving is a poor setup, as it takes a persons eye off the road.

I agree to your other point, if a person is found guilty of causing an accident, then a 30 day minimum jail time should be required.

afjock21

GoHawks

I guess it's a matter of preference. I much prefer the Nav setup/joystick in the RL compared to the touchscreen in my old TL, or that in my Land Cruiser.

afjock21

+1, much more luxurious and refined.

vas25tl

I personally like touch screen better.....just my

vas25tl

OP: just out of curiosity, did you post this in a Lexus forum? Cuz the answers could possibly be quite biased here....

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Both systems are great. The RL does have some nice advantages, same for the Lexus system. There is no perfect system out there. The Lexus and Acura navs are considered the best on the market.
But, again, one must ascertain their priorities.
One doe not purchase a Corvette because of the build quality, fine leather ,and nav system, right?
Both good cars.
Now if you were talking LS460........