Hou-RL

Strange but the car is in drive while taking the photo!

SPUDMTN

Where are the headlamp washers? I haven't been able to see them on any GS pics

frebay

it's hidden in the chrome of the headlight

saabfan

I agree. Some posters over on CL are far too biased. And it's one thing to be biased and admit it, but it's another to be biased and pretend you're not.

I love Saabs as you can tell by my username, but I could go on and on about what I don't like about the company (the 9-2 and 9-7, the long-overdue-for-a-remake 9-5) and the Saabs which I have owned (rattles, electrical malfunctions, squeaky breaks etc.). And I won't criticize anyone if they have reasoned complaints about Saab. That's what healthy discussion and comparison is all about.

But much like Saab Net, CL is far to "rah! rah! rah!" for my tastes. There's nothing worse when you cannot admit faults in either yourself or something you love.

SPUDMTN

I completely agree with you. I think that's the beauty of Acurazine (at least the RL and TSX forums). I try to keep an unbiased attitude and most people on here do. Further, many can appreciate different vehicles. That's a good thing. I can't blame Frebay for wanting to go the Lexus way w/ all the talk of tranny issues. Don't know if that would prevent ME from getting an RL, but it's a good enough reason.

As for Saabs...which models have you owned? What problems have you had with them? Is it fair to say they're the most reliable European brand? Saabs have been making me curious lately--I especially like the new 9-3 and the 9-5. Are they garage queen?

Rob L

I have a question about the push button start for the keyless access system...

If you want just the ACC how do you go about that? I'd think to get ACC you just push it briefly. If you want the engine to start you push and hold it in. Correct or not?

Oh and where is the backup ignition in case the keyless breaks and you need to go back to key start?


As for the fanboy stuff...I cant stand the fanboys who act like what they own or like is flawless and proceed to trash everything else even when they have no experience at all with the things they are talking about. I can't imagine the GS lovefest that must be going on at CL right now. Yikes. I am sure ot them the new GS is flawless since most there felt the last gen GS was the best sports sedan on the planet when in reality it wasn't the greatest of handlers out there despite being a very sweet car.

rets

Rob L, I was asking the same questions last night. I saw the salesman turning on the instrument panel and Navi for me without press that push/start button. I didn't ask him do that for me again... Maybe I didn't see he "did" press it...


Well, as for the key issue, you could use master key or valet key to open the door then, have your keyless fob attached over the start button, the car's ignition would recognize your identity and allow you to start the car.


Do RL and Infiniti have to remove the ignition and insert the master keys?

dseag2

There's a bit of a lovefest going on, which is understandable, but there are actually a couple of posters who've driven the GS430 and aren't in love with it. One found the suspension to be "floaty" and didn't find the GS to be as "bear fast" as the M45, and another agreed. Basically, I think we can still categorize the GS as a luxury/sport sedan and the M45 as a sport/luxury sedan. Neither Lexus nor Infiniti seem to have strayed too far from their usual formulas.

FYI, I believe there are already 3 CL members who have purchased GS300's, and the car isn't even "officially" out yet. I'm sure it will be a hit.

dseag2

With the RL you do.

rets

Thanks, I think I got the answers too...

RL https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48

Infiniti https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=21

DCRL

dseag2,

Sorry you consider my comments the stuff of "fanboys", but "retch" was the best word I could summon for my view of the new Lexus. It is overly ovoid, a disgusting combination in my book. But that view isn't based on my enthronement of the RL.

I think the Infiniti M is undistinguished and too Nissan like, admittedly, but it doesn't make me want to hurl. And while having finally sat in the wood accented interior of one didn't impress me much, I will say it beats the pants off the G35. And I actually don't dislike the look of the new Avalon (though it wallows; a friend drove me around in one).

There are plenty of good looking vehicles out there. And certainly Lexus makes a nice expensive product with certain values expected. But the inside of a RH330 still looks like a Pacer (leather-lined, admittedly) to me. And I find the new Lexus to be ugly in the extreme. Those are my views. Period.

BTW, I took automotive design for several years in college. And I also took creative writing. Sorry the two don't mix well for you.

Rob L

I'd think this wouldn't work though if the system went funky and you couldn't use the fob.

I'd like to think there is a key ignition somewhere in the GS interior...I'm just curious where.

Based on how they work I think I prefer the turn style system used in the RL/LS/whatever other cars over the push button system but again, I have never used a push button system so my opinion is based on half ignorance.

saabfan

We've had 900s, 9000s, first gen 9-3s, second gen 9-3s, and 9-5s.

The 900s and 9000s were, in a word, terrible. Part of the experience had to do with an awful dealer (only one Saab dealer in my parts -- still only one today but it's a different company and vastly superior), but part of it was truly that the cars had issues.

My current daily driver is a 2004 9-3 Aero, and it's a great car overall that's incredible to drive, but it has some issues with creaks and rattles which drive me batty. My previous daily driver, a 2001 9-3 (1st gen) SE, while not nearly as fun to drive, was stellar. I don't think I had a single issue in three years of ownership. The 9-5s in our family have also been great. Very few issues, no rattles, etc. Because of our poor experiences with the 900s and 9000s, however, we only lease Saabs now since we don't want to deal with the headaches that can occur after the three years of included maintenance ends. That being said, I am pretty sure that our first gen 9-3s and 9-5s would be much more reliable. And yes, from the data I have seen Saab is hitting near the top of the list compared to other European brands in terms of reliability, and well past the average reliability level overall.

The main reason we stick with Saab is due to their safety. I was hit head-on by a drunk driver, totaled our 9-5, but I walked away without a scratch. My brother was t-boned by a drunk driver just this past weekend in a current gen 9-3, and he too walked away a-ok. Another brother was also in an accident where his Saab 9000 was totaled (many years ago) and he had almost no injuries. Saab's safety, in my opinion and experience, is second-to-none, and the main reason why we return to Saab.

That being said... we are shopping the RL, M, and GS right now as a 9-5 replacement. It's simply too dated and behind the times compared to what else is out there and the massive rebates prove it. No one would ever, ever consider buying one at MSRP, but that's not the case with the other vehicles listed.

I feel like the competition nowadays in the mid-sized luxury sedan market is really heating up, and fortunately we the consumers are benefitting. We have some great choices out there.

Show-and-tell:

2000 9-5 after head-on with mid-sized pick-up

2003 9-3 after being t-boned by mid-sized sedan

saabfan

I can't speak to the GS, but I would assume it's the same as the M where, just as you say, one brief touch goes to ACC. A light above the button says 'ACC' when you activate it.

It's such an odd feeling... starting a car by pushing a button.

8-)

saabfan:

Maybe your family should buy tanks?

ExHack

Keep that old Legend around awhile if you didn't trade it in, you may find you miss it I still miss mine.

clocks

I came very close to buying a Saab 9-3. In fact I did a GM 24 hour test drive with one. I liked it a lof, but in the end got a TL.

Saabs don't depreciate as well as most other near-luxery cars. Therefore I was trying to work a deal on a slightly used 9-3, but could not get the numbers to work for me. So I went with the TL.

Karl_in_Chicago

Me too! And the tilt-BOTH-mirrors when in reverse.

saabfan

Ha, good call.


When the lease is up on our '03 9-3 the TL is a definite contender for succession. It has so many technologies that the 9-3 should've had from day 1 (nav, Bluetooth, etc.).

Tell me about it! Resale is the pits. That's why we lease Saabs.

SPUDMTN

That's why Saabs interest me right now Lightly used late-model Saabs offer a WHOLE LOT of car for the money, and to hear that they're the most reliable of the European brands is incredibly encouraging. Volvo S60s and S80s are cheap as well, but knowing how Volvo reliability has been lately is quite disappointing and works as a deterrent. Swedish cars just hold a special place in my heart