SpicyMikey

Sorry to create a new thread on this subject, but I wanted to conduct a poll to see if I can find a pattern for my CMBS problems. There's no way to add a poll to the existing CMBS thread. There might not be enough of us in this exclusive CMBS club to gather meaningful data but let's try anyway.

I'm starting to think maybe Acura adjusted the logic on the 07 control module to make the preset distance much shorter then the 06 (maybe they were getting some complaints the feature was intrusive). If they did they are certainly not admitting it to me. However, I can't think of any other reasonable reason why Acura corporate told my dealer not to research the problem beyond checking for trouble codes.

Here's the description of this feature taken right from the manual (look towards the end). Please read it and let everyone know if this is what you have experienced.

johnhayd

I'm not sure i've ever had a stage 2 activation, but i've plenty of stage 1 activations that were well in advance of impact.

2006 rl

sotiri

I have had 2 stage 2's.
one was because a car turned right from my left lane in front of me.
there was no stage 1, it was stage 2 immediately and the seat belt pulled me tight, the brakes were already being applied (hard) by the time I was putting my foot on the brake, and it saved me an accident for sure.

SpicyMikey

Update: Acura agreed to at least do the testing shown in the Service manual -that was nice of them, huh

Turns out alignment on the gun is good. They did the simple Vertical alignment but not the more difficult horizontal alignment. I don't mind that they didn't check horizontal because I'im sure that's not the issue. I only asked that they do the vertical because it was so simple and a place to start.

So, that leaves me at a cross roads. I'm certain my car doesn't work properly. I even went down to my brother in-laws house where his good friend owns an 06 RL with CMBS. I tried his car. Sure enough, the system works differently. Much more responsive.

This leaves only two possibilities;
1) Acura INTENTIONALLY changed the system after it's introduction in the 06 models (for whatever reason) but did not announce it or change the documentation. In hindsight they might realize that wasn't a good idea and now refuse to admit it to me or any one. If they don't realize it they should. I purchased this vehicle based on that documentation. It's unacceptable to reduce the effectiveness of a safety feature without fully disclosing that.

2) There truly is something wrong with only my car and it is undetectable via simple self-diagnostic circuits in the car.

Acura refuses to test drive the car to experience the problem with me (even the area rep wouldn't do it), so the visual evidence seems to be irrelevant to Acura. No error codes. That's all they keep saying. It's such strange behavior that it leads me to believe the answer is #1.

I decided to file a complaint with the NHTSA. Hopefully they will investigate it. I encourage anyone with an 07 CMBS system who doesn't feel the system is working properly should do the same. The link is here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

I'm also going to consider the BBB arbitration path. Acura belongs to that program

deepdezal

SpicyMikey-

Thanks for the update. I called my dealer yesterday and informed them that CMBS on my car is NOT working as described in their documentation. The service manager told me, if there aren't any errors in the system, then they couldn’t do anything to troubleshoot.


The service manager gave the number for Acura's customer service (1800-422-2872) and asked me to contact them directly. I haven't done this yet.

I agree with you SpicyMikey, that I bought this car solely for the CMBS feature; otherwise, I had many other options to chose from.



Thanks.

SpicyMikey

Yes, I'm staying calm knowing that these people I'm talking to are just employees and are doing what they are told. But, I'm trying to find a way to get Acura's attention and force action on their part. I've got to think about this a little more. Suggestions welcome

You need to do what you need to do. However, consider at least filing a complaint with the NHTSA (link in last post). If they get more then one then that might give the case priority and have it investigated faster. Also, consider asking them to verify the vertical alignment on the gun. It's a simple check that only requires a level. No reason they shouldn't do that for you. it wasn't my problem but that doesn't mean it's not yours.

I'd love to see more people with an 07 weigh in on this poll to see if there really is a pattern. So far everyone with an 06 seems to think it's working as described. That fact, coupled with the fact the sales dept guys agreed with me, PLUS, my personal experience driving another 06, all leads me to believe that; "Houston, we have a problem."

SpicyMikey

By the way DeepDezal, I have been working with a guy named Ajay Bazwa at Acura Customer Service. The number I was given is different but it may get you to the same place 800 382 2238. I'm not suggesting you ask for him directly, just wanted to let you know he's aware of the issue in case he tries to give you that line about being the only complaint they've ever gotten. According to him, I'm the only one in the world who is complaining

SpicyMikey

Well, I just got a call from Acura Customer Services. They are officially declaring this case done. They offer no further assistance in explaining why my system does not work as described. In so many words, they are telling me my expectations are wrong and there is nothing wrong with the CMBS. Of course, that is certainly one possibility, but, I think that's the least probable. I base this on the fact that, 1)I've driven an 06 and seen the difference, 2)I've gotten feedback from many others on this website who described the difference, and 3)the sales guys at the dealer have driven others and concur it's acting different.

I find the only reasonable explanations are these;
1) My car's CMBS system is truly broken and Acura simply cannot identify the problem

2) The 07 CMBS system is broadly broken and many others have this same problem

3) The system is working as intended and was intentionally changed in 07 to be less responsive. In other words, the car is fine, the description of the feature is what is actually broken.

Since I don't know which of this is the case, I launched several attacks to get to the bottom of this quickly;

1) The angle that my car is truly broken and they can't find the problem;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filed a Florida Lemon law case. This is a formal complaint that must be addressed or can lead to arbitration.


2) The angle that this issue is bigger then just my car and effects all 07's
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filed a complaint with the NHTSA. My argument: There is some evidence that a problem has occured in the 07 Acura RL CMBS system reducing its "early warning" usefullness. Users may not be aware of this and the written literature may offer false sense of security to users. I asked that it be investigated.


3) The angle that nothing is wrong and Acura simply changed the functionality in 07
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. My argument: The literature which potential customers are given to describe this feature does not reconcile with the actual performance of this feature. The literature indicates there is sufficient time between Stage 1 and 2 to react and avoid a collision. It is misleading and should be considered false advertising since Stage 1 does not occur until the last possible opportunity to avoid impact. There is no Stage 2.

deepdezal

SpicyMikey,

I called the number that you posted (800 382 2238) and it appears to be the same number that I called yesterday. I requested to speak with Ajay Bazwa as you mentioned and the rep who answered the phone said that Ajay could not talk to me because I am from Maryland area and Ajay services Florida area (BS). I asked the customer service rep nicely, if I could just speak with Ajay B. about another case that he is working on and the customer service rep didn’t forward the call to Ajay because he services another area.

So, I am planning to take my car into the dealership sometime next week for their "expert" diagonicis. I am also going to locate another car/s with CMBS new or used and test drive them just to see how the system CMBS works on 06 and 07.

Also-I am planning to log a complain with NHTSA after when my dealership tells me everything is working and the can’t find anything wrong.

Deep Kalsi

SpicyMikey

Sounds like a good plan. Go for it. I wish some others with an 07 CMBS would weigh in here. Not many around. 5 people with 06's all say it's working according to the written description. Both of us (with 07's) see it is not.

It seems Acura goes by a very tight script with the CMBS system. Dealers are instructed to only check for trouble codes, so don't take it out on your dealer.

I don't know for certain yet which of those three possibilities I listed earlier is the true problem. However, I know one thing for sure; there's nothing wrong with my judgement. As a reasonable person, I have read that literature and I know my car is not acting anything close to how it is described. You obviously conclude the same.

They can say the sky is green with all the conviction they can muster, that doesn't make it so. Something is wrong here and we're going to get to the bottom of it eventually.

SpicyMikey

I just posted a complaint with Consumer Affairs.com as well. Never considered them as a resource until I read the article this morning about the "unintended" acceleration problem with the Prius. ConsumerAffairs.com was quoted in the article as the group who broke the story.

One way or the other we're going to get to the bottom of this. It's a shame Acura chose to ignore me and refuse to take a test drive. I love my RL in every other way but I'm a little disappointed in Acura.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Maybe they just changed it in the 07 RL? Why not go to Acura and test drive another 07 and see how it responds compared to yours.

SpicyMikey

Good idea but I've looked already. There haven't been any within 100 miles of me for the last two months. It's a very rare trim package. I'll bet they only made a few hundred in 07 (based on availability and the total count of 3400 for all RL's

However, an 08 just showed up this week at a dealer about 40 miles away (according to AutoTrader.com). I'm going to go down there this weekend if I can break away for a few hours.

If the 08 works like mine (and DeepDezel's 07 RL), then we can start to conclude they might have just changed the feature after the 06 MY. Acura probably won't admit it without being forced (if they did change it) because that would mean admitting they screwed up and didn't change the literature of the feature (it works significantly different then the 06 I drove). This admission could open them up to other problems.

I can almost live with the idea they simply changed it. Unfortunately, if they don't admit it, then I have to continue to assume the system is broken and won't be there for me in a frontal collision. Acura has created this whole problem by refusing to test drive it and explain to me the difference in functionality. It forces me to keep pushing and investing time.

In the end, somehow, I will get them to stop ignoring me and address this fair and reasonable question. They just don't know it yet

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Ah well be sure to let us know how that goes. Another thing is people at the Acura helpline probably wouldnt know something like that. In fact I bet the majority of them if you told them that feature wanst working on your 05 they wouldnt even think to say "the 05s dont have that." Anyway If Acura did change it and didnt announce it the only way is like you said and to try a new model. Good luck.

Don Melcher

OK - I am in the process of getting one the last 07 with CMBS/PAX in California and it should be delivered either this weekend or early next week. Can you give me a link to your post on how yours differs from what the manual says? I'll let you know what I find.

SpicyMikey

Hi Don,

Congrats on the new purchase. It's been a great car for me (even with this problem). You'll love the RL.

So I assume you've read the text from Acura's website and done your research on this CMBS feature. You will no doubt have certain expectations from reading the description. You'll get the sense it's an early warning system in addition to just simply a collision mitigation braking system.

However, for my car, the Stage 1 alert simply doesn't trigger until I'm almost at the last opportunity to avoid an accident. The distance varies depending on how fast I'm going, the close rate, etc. So, the best way to define it would be to say I'm about 2-3 seconds from impact. I literaly have to jam on my brakes to ensure I avoid the object in front. Even with that, I'm probably only 2 car lengths away when I stop. Understandably, I have never had stage 2 trigger.

What it should do (based on my experience driving an 06) is pretty much what the manual describes. When you get within 300 feet of an object, and are closing on it at greater then 10mph, the Stage 1 alert will trigger to warn you of a potential collision. It takes a second for the radar gun to lock onto the target when it comes in range, so, it probably won't go to stage 1 immediately at 300 feet. If you don't react within a few seconds, stage 2 will trigger. At this point you are probably within only a few seconds from impact.

Test drive the car before you take possesion to see if you have my problem. If the system is working properly it should be easy to test stage 1. Bring it onto a highway and try and drive up on a slower moving truck. If it's working you should have no problem triggering Stage 1 with plenty of room to spare. Testing Stage 2 will require a bit more guts but if Stage 1 triggers at the expected time then you can probably assume Stage 2 will work. Stage 2 should trigger with only a few seconds of opportunity remaining.

If you want to ask me more specifics feel free to send me a private message. I'll share everything I know with you.

Don Melcher

Thanks - I am looking forward to it.

Unfortunately I won't be able to test drive - the dealer is about 400 miles away. Could not get a good price on one in the color(s) we wanted (white, platinum or desert mist with interior not in black) with or without CMBS/PAX in Northern California - so had to call around to Southern California. I guess I can just hope for the best. The car is really for my wife - which is why I brought CMBS. I want her driving a safer car then her 2001 Solara Convertable.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Alright I have an idea. Go to an empty parking lot and line up carboard boxes or something along those lines and charge them. See if the Stage 2 will come on. Another thing is that is it really supposed to engage within 300 feet or someone? That to me sounds like crazy because thats a very long distance. So I am going to guess Acura changed it. Anyway just another thought on this.

RL06tech

Although I haven't used your car, I really think your problem is a misunderstanding of the system. The system does not have to go through the stages. Depending on the situation it can instantly go to any stage depending on the situation. There are a few instances (all rare) where the system may seem to react when it shouldn't, read your owners manual. For example, if you are accelerating quickly to overtake a vehicle at highway speeds and get too close to its bumper you'll get the flashy light, however, if the opposite is true and someone cut into your lane at a lower speed than yours it might go into full panic mode off the bat. One situation where I've had the tug (stage 2) is when someone cuts into your path very close even though they are going faster than you. I have an 06 an overall I think the system works exactly how they advertise it, you simply have to get used to its parameters. For example, if the speed differential between you and the car ahead is less than 15mph, it will not activate at all regardless of how close you get to the car in front of you. Ergo, it will let you crash into him in that situation! The system is not an automatic driving machine it is simply a way to reduce your chances of a bad collision while still being mostly transparent in its operation. It has saved my butt at least once.

SpicyMikey

Believe me, I've thought of that. I just didn't feel it was necessary for me to go through all that effort. However, if I really reach a dead end with Acura, my last resort will be to setup the boxes, face them with tin foil, get out my video camera, and then record the action. Then they can't use the argument that it's too dangerous to test. They can sit it their safe desk chair and watch the action

By the way, from my experience it can react with a good 200-300 feet. it depends on the relative closing speed and your cars actual speed. It's very sophisticated. The only thing that can really effect the results is the angle of approach. You really need to be coming at the car straight on to get an early stage 1. 300 feet isn't that far when your closing on someone at 20mph. Doing the math real quick that comes out to about 7 seconds from impact. You will get a stage 1 warning and if you don't react in about 3 seconds you should get a stage 2, at that point you are seconds from impact and must react immediately. When you're going slower then everything is more bunched up but the time ratios are about the same.

My car really triggers a stage 1 about when the stage 2 should trigger.

SpicyMikey

Hey buddy, I agree with you. The circumstances can play a big role (as I said in the last response). Believe me I understand the subtle differences of this complex system. However, there are certain conditions that can be created which should produce predictable results. You've got an 06. If it's working the way my friends 06 works, you should be able to get on the highway, find a slow moving truck doing 50, and close in on it at 70. When you get within 300 feet (about 7 seconds to impact) you'll probably see stage 1 trigger. Is that what happens for you? For me I get Stage 1 at about 90 feet. Less then half the distance. It's very predictable and you'll get the same results every time.

That's what's been tough for me to get acura's attention. It works, but not like it should. Is there a bad radar gun? A bad sensor feeding the VSA module? I don't know. Unfortunately, their self diagnotic circuits don't detect anything

Don Melcher

I am in the radio business, and the first thing I would look at is the radar - either the transmitter output is low or the receiver is lacking proper sensitivity. It could also be that there is a problem with the antenna, which could cause both of the above to be the case.

A friend reports that he receives hits on his Valentine 1 radar detector when a RL is around. What would be interesting is comparing how far away a detector will detect a known working system compared to yours. The received signal strength goes down inversly to the square of the distance - so it should be pretty noticible. If it is essentially the same - then it still could be the receiver... or something else.

Their diagnostics may not be able to check for this.

SpicyMikey

I agree there's lots of things to check besides looking for trouble codes. The self diagnostic circuits probably test mainly for voltage, continuity, etc. These aren't logic tests. What Acura really needs is a logic test. A program that simulates different inputs and check for the VSA and ACC module responses.

Regarding the radar gun; the Adaptive Cruise control works perfectly. Spot on with it's first point of detection and general behavior. For that reason I'm not thinking it's the radar gun or the upfront ACC module. However, CMBS uses ACC as a front end, but, it's much more then that. ACC could be working at the same time CMBS is not. The complex VSA module is involved in CMBS, plus, there are several sensors that monitor yaw, steering angle, braking, throttle, etc. I suppose a malfunction in any of those sensors could also throw off the logic and how the system responds.

By the way, can't remember if I mentioned this. My system responds to CMBS properly when the ACC is turned on. It's about twice as responsive and triggers stage 1 about when it should. I told Acura corporate this. Their response; It's supposed to work that way. Oh, please.

Benush

I was wondering if you had adjusted the ACC long, medium and short range? I have no clue if that could be a factor in the CMBS, but since that setting does affect how far away you stay from the car in front, could it also have an effect on how far away the CMBS works or begins working?

Just a thought.

SpicyMikey

Good thought. I considered that and tried changing the setting. It had no effect. Acura also confirmed it is not used with CMBS.

Interestingly, CMBS was supposed to have a switch like that so you could configure the systems responsivness to your liking. For some reason they pulled it out at the last minute. The Service Manual even talks about it but the feature isn't there (must have been pulled out literaly at the last minute). The CMBS OFF button was supposed to toggle through OFF - ON/FAR - ON/NEAR. But now it just toggles OFF - ON. Not sure why they took that feature out. That would have been good.

Chas2

I do agree with you on this. I had started a reply on splitting hairs with the poll, but got side tracked. I had started the reply because I do not agree with "well in advance", and I also disagree with the second choice of at the last possible moment. Given the choice between the two, I would have to go with well in advance.

Anyway, I have an 06, and my Stage 1 can activate fairly far out, such as going 40 on country road, and someone pulls out ahead of me from a side street, and then tries to accelerate away.

One dramatic incident I remember happened so fast, I could not tell when the stages kicked in. The stages seemed to happen right on top of each other. One time I had Stage 2 activate, maybe even Stage 3. I recall the tugging happening, the car starting to brake and my standing on the brake, all before I think I realized the BRAKE warning in the MID was flashing and dinging. In fact, after the crisis had passed, and I had released the brakes, I was still getting tugs on the seat belt. This happened so fast I was not really aware that Stage 1 had gone off before Stage 2 happened, and I don't know if the beginning of the braking was associated with Stage 2 or Stage 3.

As you say Spicy, the problem is we have a very small sample of 06 owners on the board, and even smaller sample of 07s. If they only made 3400 in 07, I can believe that they made less than 400 CMBS packages, maybe even half that.

Chas2

I don't think cardboard has enough reflectivity. Cover the card board with aluminum foil at least.

SpicyMikey

Chas, I can agree with everything you said. It's all very subjective and my sampling is small. 6 seconds, 2 seconds, it sounds like I'm splitting hairs. That's what makes Acura able to wiggle out of this without feeling guilty. It would be easier if the system just wasn't working at all. However, there's a big difference between 6 seconds and 2. Huge difference. If you've dozed off on the highway during a long ride home, getting a warning at 6 seconds can help you. A warning at 2 seconds is probably to late. 2 seconds will help you if you're already alert and just glanced away at the radio, etc.

I guess the real source of this problem -- the thing that has caused this to escalate this far -- is Acura's inability (or unwillingness) to test and confirm the performance of this important and expensive safety feature. A circuit test is fine. But if the customer reports a problem that contradicts the circuit test, they need to be able to do more. Hopefully, as this feature evolves in the coming years, they will develop procedures to test the functionality rather then the electronic circuits.

I thinking more and more about this box test. I think I'll do it. This could actually be fun. I'll have someone in the back seat filming it to show the cars response. I'll put it on my website so everyone can see it

SpicyMikey

Update:

I had a rep call me from Honda today in California (as a result of my lemon law filing). Said he wanted to hear my side of the story. Actually, he really was just a slick talker trying to convince me to not move forward. He had no intentions of helping me resolve the conflict.

Next up should be a call from the BBB arbitration group. They will need to now step in here, and decide if the vehicle is not performing as it should. I received my package from BBB today and had to fill out some forms and make copies of the sales slip, registration, etc. Interestingly, Acura is bound by the rulling but I am not. Hardly seems fair, but it works in the consumers favor so I'm not complaining

SpicyMikey

UPDATE: I spent a few hours this weekend preparing for my upcoming Arbitration case. I made a video documenting exactly how my system performs. It's sad it had to come to this because I absolutely like this vehicle. Unfortunately, I don't like being told I'm wrong when I know I'm right. I don't like being misled with false advertising, and I don't like being patronized by corporate reps.

Search YouTube.com with these keywords: 2007 Acura RL CMBS or click this link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vrmqB9DnndU

All you guys who have this system. Watch how it works in my car and let me know if that's when you get a Stage 1. My "crash test" with boxes worked perfectly. Unfortunately, I got no Stage 2 and Stage 3 occured after impact. This system doesn't work for me, plain and simple. Hope I'm the only one and this isn't a model wide problem.

Another interesting note; I noticed the webpage that described the CMBS system in details has been removed. http://www.hondanews.com/categories/755/releases/3766

Not sure if that is because it's info on an old model now or if it's an indication that I have gotten someones attention at Corporate. Regardless, I'm glad they removed it. The info is misleading and needs to be taken down. For me, the damage has already been done but they need to start describing this feature honestly, if infact it has been intentionally changed from the 06 model.

neuronbob

You obviously spent lots of time on that video. Nice job! I hope your situation is resolved.

TampaRLX-SH

Mike,

My RL does not have CMBS, so I cannot say I am fluent with this feature. But I had driven a demo RL that had CMBS. It activated stage one and stage two in my test dive. I was not brave enough to test stage three.

After reviewing your video, I would agree that your RL is not behaving in the same manner as the demo I drove. The stage one alert was at far greater distances. The stage two was at greater distances (seatbelt tugging) than your video depicts for the stage one. Again, I did not test stage three. In fact, one of the reasons I did not like CMBS was the stage one alerts were too frequent considering how people cut in front of you in our wonderful Tampa traffic. I found it distracting and annoying.

Now that is not a scientific comparison, but your video does demonstrate behavior unlike the CMBS demo RL I test drove.

Further, in agreement with 'truth in advertising', I remember one of the few rare RL commercials that depicted and RL 'seeing' through the fog to a trailer ahead. The distance depiced in the commercial was significant and not a mere 2 seconds to impact alarm. Even in clear weather as your video depics, it is not sufficient time to be a usuable alarm mechanism.

I would agree with you that your RL is not behaving as represented, nor is it behaving alike to the CMBS RL I drove.

Granted, it is an aid and should not be relied upon (especially as new technology),
but the behavior your RL is exhibiting is downright dangerous. NO ONE could be expected to respond at such minimal margins.

Don Melcher

The page may still be available at:

The Wayback Machine

Remember - as in Sherman, Mr. Peabody and the 3DBB

Chas2

Good job at explaining.

Interesting that for me, the whole Hondanews website is down. I cannot get to any of the site.

Now the DVD that came with the car is still a viable piece of evidence for you. As I recall, there is a nice chapter on how CMBS and the ACC works. It does not work as you showed in your video.

Too bad I cannot find my DVD and check it out, but if I do, I will let you know

Chas

2006 RL CMBS

PS, I think mine works with more warning, but not having replicated your tests, I cannot tell you for certain.

SpicyMikey

Yes, the DVD had a good description of it too. Also, the service manual talks about it in detail. Interestingly enough, the Owners manual really doesn't talk about the 3 stages. It really plays down the whole system (at least in the 07 manual).

I'm glad you thought it was well explained. This DVD is part "get the word out", and also part "evidence". In arbitration I will need to present my case similar to a court. I don't want to just walk in there with my words. Pictures speak volumes and Acura can't talk around that video as easily. I'll call the Honda Mitigation representative back tomorrow tell him to watch this video and share it with his engineer folks. I'll see if he still wants to hold the position that the system is working perfectly. If he does, then I will lose all respect for the company and I'll have to think twice about buying another Honda/Acura. Up to this point, I can still give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they truly believe the system is ok because of the lack of DTC errors.

Chas2

Did the gyroscope error ever pan out?

SpicyMikey

Interesting (and sad) story on that one. I brought it to the dealer on Friday to show them the errors. The service manager grabbed a tech off the floor and had him come outside and look at the car. I told him I've got DTCs in my log. He said how do you know. I told him I went in there by pressing MAP-MENU-CANCEL simultaneously. He said, what are you doing going in there? You shouldn't be there. I snaped back immediately and said, don't even go there Rob. I'll rip this friggin engine out if I want, it's my car. Don't tell me what I can do.

That set a bad stage, he looked at the log half heartedly and said these don't mean anything. How can it mean nothing I snapped back. These are DTC error logs. He said he never looks there. He just pays attention to hard errors.

At that point I had enough of everyone at Acura. It was Friday and I just thanked them and left.

See, I have a quirk in my personality. My adversaries usually find it out too late. Don't challenge me when I know I'm right. I become more energized the more you fight me. Incidences like Friday just charge me up. That's when I went home and started working on my video.

sotiri

Ok I watched your video, and I saw one flaw in your actions.
On your first example, I thought it performed as my 06 does.
the flaw appears in the later examples.
the CMBS monitors your actions on the steering wheel, and the brakes.
IF you move the steering wheel in a way that indicates you are taking evasive action, like a sharp jerk on the wheel as if to avoid the accident, the system quickly disengages. Its supposed to do that, and it has the appearance as if the system is not reacting further.
Also if you touch the brakes, its the same thing, just tapping them tells the system to back off.
And from what I saw in the video, the alerts cease the moment you took evasive action.
What I cannot discern is of the braking system in your videos energizes, or at least primes itself for faster response.
In your cardboard box example, did the system activate the brakes?

SpicyMikey

Youtube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vrmqB9DnndU

Good questions Sotiri. I appreciate you analyzing things along with me.

Yes, I'm aware of all the sensors in the car that feed into the VSA module to control CMBS. Remember, I've got the Service Manual also now based on your recommendation. The car has steering sensors, brake sensors, and yaw sensors feeding the control module. I was very careful not to turn the steering wheel or brake before stage 1 occured with the "van" tests". I intentionally left a wide angle view on the camera so the viewer could see part of the steering wheel the whole time. However, once Stage 1 occurred, I had to react and change trajectory to avoid impact. I had no choice. I couldn't wait to see if stage 2 would occur since I barely had enough time to cut the wheel. In a real situation the driver would probably be distracted in some way and would have reacted a second later then I did. Even the stage 1 alert may not have provided enough time to prevent an accident in many real life situations.

Understand what my series of tests were intended to do. The van tests were intended to prove the behaviour leading up to the "box" test. I feel the van tests proved the CMBS system reacts consistently under varous circumstances to give you a Stage 1 with about 2-3 seconds before impact. It's actually hard to fool. That's good to see and I give the system an A for that.

Knowing this, we then did the box test. Since the system reacted identical for stage 1 with the boxes, we should be able to conclude anything that followed would have also occurred with the van tests. What followed was NO stage 2, followed by a Stage 3 about 1 second before impact. The seat belt retracted (which was good to see) and the brakes went on. It wasn't gentle braking, but it wasn't "lock-em up" braking either. I'm not sure if that was supposed to be stage 2 braking or stage 3. You saw the video. You can see there was no indication of me being thrust forward from a hard brake. By the way, after we impacted, I stepped on the brakes and brought the car to a gentle stop in about 25 feet.

My conclusion; It brakes so late, and with so little force, that I don't think it would reduce the speed much before impact. I wouldn't call the system totally useless, but it's as close to useless as you can get. Certainly not worth the money. Of course that's assuming all the cars work like mine and the system isn't broken in some way. That's what I will ultimately find out.

sotiri

here is a description of a real contrasting test to show whether the system can perform or cant.
In the manual, you see how they have a target that can be placed in front of the radar to help align it.
Here is an idea.
Take a pole, an dont do this on the cuff, plan it and do it right.
Put at the end of the pole a piece of steel, like a sheet metal, about 2'X2' and attach it to the end of the pole so that it is affixed at one of the edges, at the center.
Now it looked like you had some roads where you were able to setup the cardboard box crash.
Ok, instead of the cardboard box, have the pole held by someone from the passenger side window, ( you may have to do some rigging here) and have the plate hanging over the radar array- BUT not blocking; yet.
by rotating the pole, to let the metal plate then be a reflection visible to the radar, you will simulate a collision event-by mimicking an object in the field.
You can do this to varying degrees, with putting some blockage or by simulating immediate collision with immediate blockage.
I think you can get the idea, you want to trick the radar, and you can do this with a passenger holding on to a pvc pole with a steel plate at the end.
However be careful, the system will (should) go into full braking and you should be able to tune this to see just how quickly the system really works.
And you dont have to risk rear-ending a car.
Waddya think?