acuralvr1

Is there such a thing as a Break in Period anymore? Do any of you break the car engine in? Do any of you drive less than 55 MPH for the first 1000 miles? Do any of you avoid sudden acceleration or braking for the first 1500 miles?

Do any of you use a synthetic oil? Did you begin with it right away or did you wait several thousand miles? Mobil One or some other brand?

Thanks!

backfire

I own 5 cars and trucks and 2 motorcycles. I run synthetic oil in everyhting except the vintage car. I have the original oil in my RL and when it is time to change I will be using Synthetic. My corvette came new with Mobil 1 oil.

kirbyflorida

VERY important per Acura, keep the original oil in for the full term per the computer, this is a special oil and important for proper break in. This is in the manual, web site, and I callled Acura.

neuronbob

Sorry to go Ron A on you there, but your question was begging for that response.

Break-in is still 600 miles for the engine, during which the primary requirement is that you vary engine speed on the freeway. For brakes it is 200 miles. The break-in oil should not be changed until the MID tells you to.

NavyDoc333

The problem I had was that at 5000 mi, my dipstick was bone dry. I did my own oil change and put in Penz Platinum. SInce then I've put another 5000mi on it, and it was 1 qt low last time I checked. I put a quart in and called the dealer. THey said 1qt of oil between oil changes is 'within normal limits'. I tend to disagree with that, since I've never had a car burn that much oil. Especially a new car.
I've asked them to check it, and they said I have to come in for an oil change with them... then have it brought in every so many miles for a 'formal' oil check so they can document the consumption.

It's not leaking any...no spots of the garage floor...etc. But it's going somewhere.

Anyone noticed consumption like that?

dwest1023

I have not experienced that problem. Try changing brands of oil and see if that changes anything.

acuralvr1

Funny. Yes, on a long plane flight today I read most of the manual and saw the 200/600 mile recommendations.

How many people use synthetics here? I used it on a couple of previous vehicles.

gdevine

I am absolutely amazed of the lack of oil consumption.

I have 7500 miles since the last oil change (ready to take it in with 5% left for a B16 service). Checked the oil level and to my surprise, it has not burned 1drop of oil, it is right on the full line.

I have never had a car not burn some oil, usually about a 1/2 quart. I have 15k miles on the vehicle and last oil change they put Mobile 1 syn.

Is this common for this engine?

geronimomoe

I've read that burning up to 1 quart of oil between oil change is "within acceptable limits" for engines. I can't remember where I saw a higher number but some site's even said 1.5-2 quarts, if my memory is correct. Once it gets beyond 2 quarts within say 3K miles then they may consider it excessive.

Chas2

As said previously, yes there is a break in period.


From August 2006 Acura Service News

Factory-Fill Engine Oil Looks
Dark? It’s Normal

At TQI, does the factory-fill engine oil look less
like Texas Tea and more like Oklahoma Crude?
Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with the
engine. The engine oil looks that way because of
molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special
lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine
components during assembly.
When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum
mixes with the engine oil, turning it a dark
metallic color often within the first 5 minutes of
running. And just how dark that engine oil gets
seems to vary between vehicle models, engine
types, and engine assembly plants.

[Shows pictures of regular fresh oil, looking nice light yellow color, and
picture of factory fill oil after 5 minuntes of run time, looks dark green]


What’s really important to remember here is this:
Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it
looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid
level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the
engine until the first scheduled maintenance
interval.

Rexorg

There is not a car in the world that does not burn oil. When you check the oil level you are actually checking whats in the crankcase, which is oil and condensation from the engine that replaces the oil that is burned.

While the RL can go 7,500+ miles between oil changes, I change mine when the oil life is 50%.

Yes, I use Penzzoil Full Synthetic.

gavine

The condensation burns-off as soon as the oil reaches a high temperature. Usually after about 10 or 15 minutes of summer driving (longer in winter). That's one of the reasons that frequent short trips are bad for a car. The oil gets water in it and never gets a chance to burn-off. The water comes from the engine's need to run rich until it warms-up.

Also, even if you have a lot of condensation in the oil, I doubt it's enough to make a difference in the level of the oil.

rmesola

what's the advantage of changing synthetic oil that often... i figure it's a waste of money and bad for the environment... but correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a mechanic

if you keep your car to 200K miles it may make a difference... but figure all those extra oil changes and you'd be buying yourself a new car anyway...

just curious...

kmcheney

I changed my oil when the MID called for it. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic. It's great oil. Interestingly, in the RDX (which has a turbo) Acura REQUIRES Mobil 1 be used. That says something for the oil in my opinion.

gdevine

So does this mean that I have more condensation in my reservoir than is normal, since my dipstick is at the full level? My engine would not have as much condensation if the level was showing a half quart low?

Rexorg

Dear Tom and Ray:



We recently purchased a 1991 Chevy Lumina with automatic transmission from a friend. According to him, the car has always used oil. Currently at 72,500 miles, it requires about half a quart every 1,000 miles. The car has always had oil changes every 3,500 miles. The car doesn't leak a drop, even when parked for a couple of days. There is no noticeable smoke coming from the tail pipe. It runs smoothly. Should I be worried about the Lumina's "disappearing oil trick," or should I just keep buying oil on sale? -- Larry

Ray: I wouldn't be concerned, Larry. A lot of cars burn some amount of oil. And in fact, we've heard that some manufacturers are telling customers that it is acceptable for their new cars to burn a quart of oil in 750 miles! Why are they telling customers that?

Tom: Because they've discovered that some of their new cars are burning a quart of oil every 750 miles!

Ray: Why do new cars burn oil? Engines do run hotter these days, which probably accounts for some of the extra oil burning. Plus, most manufacturers now call for lighter grade of oil, 5W30, which may also have an effect. Then there's the question of how well the car was broken in by the owner, and whether someone at the factory forgot to put rings on all the pistons that day.

Tom: And there's a great difference of opinion as to what is an acceptable amount of oil to be burning in a new car. Personally, I think none is the right amount.

Ray: And in my -- better educated -- opinion, given all the variables, I'd say a quart every 1,000 miles is an amount you may just have to live with. But if my new car burned any more than a quart every 1,000 miles, I think I'd be steamed.

Tom: In an older car, it's more just a question of what you're willing to tolerate, and how long you plan to keep the thing. When you start burning a quart every 500 miles, then a quart every 400 miles, then every 300 miles, at what point does it become such a pain in the neck that you decide to either fix the car or get rid of it?

Ray: This decision may also be affected by how many neighbors direct rude hand gestures at you in the morning while you're warming up your car, as plumes of blue smoke waft into their kitchen windows.

Tom: And by how many times you're listed as Public Enemy No.1 by the local chapter of The Sierra Club.

Ray: But I'd say you're nowhere near that type of life-or-death decision yet, Larry. You say this car has always burned a little oil. And as long as it's not getting worse, half a quart every 1,000 miles is really nothing to worry about.

Tom: Just remember to keep your eye on it and don't let it run low. If you do that, then it WILL be decision time pretty soon. Good luck

Rexorg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Tom and Ray:

Here is an odd thing: My brother, who lives in Germany, was shocked when I told him that here in the United States we change oil in a car about every 3,000 miles or three months. He told me that is crazy, crazy, crazy. In Germany, he says, NO ONE changes oil more than once a year, if even that. He's being serious, too. I double-checked with my dad, and it seems true. (Perhaps it's just my family being ultra-lazy or eco-sound?) However, if it's true, why are Americans changing oil so much more? Is this a case of the oil/mechanic industry making sure it has plenty of business at the cost of the consumer and the environment? Or is this really better for the car? Perhaps climate or something specifically different between the United States and Germany makes it necessary to change oil so often here? -- Anne

TOM: Well, some of it's just cultural differences. In some countries, people like hot dogs and baseball games. In other countries, they like bratwurst and wearing steel-plated, conical bras while singing opera. Go figure.

RAY: There actually are reasons why motor oil is changed less often in Germany. First of all, they drive fewer miles per year then we do. We, in the United States, average about 15,000-20,000 miles a year. Germans average about 10,000 miles a year.

TOM: Synthetic oil is also more popular there. And synthetic motor oil only needs to be changed every 10,000 miles, which works out to about once a year for the average German driver.

RAY: Finally, changing the oil is more expensive in Germany, which discourages people from doing it more often than necessary. Here in the states, an oil change for a four- or six-cylinder engine runs about $25 or $35. In Germany, the same service with synthetic oil is easily twice that much. A single quart of synthetic oil itself costs about 10 bucks.

TOM: The Europeans are trying to stretch the interval even farther. Manufacturers are reportedly trying to achieve a 30,000-mile oil-change interval with synthetic oil. So that might mean changing the oil once every three years over there!

RAY: Over here, we use mostly traditional, petroleum-based motor oil. And most manufacturers now recommend changing the oil every 7,500 miles. We recommend doing it every 5,000 miles, because we tend to be more cautious about protecting the engine. Very few people recommend changing the oil every 3,000 miles anymore. It's just not necessary, and the environmental cost is too high.

TOM: But maybe it's time for us to reconsider our recommendation? With engines AND oils getting better all the time, we might have to go up to 7,500 miles, too. Give us some time to think about it -- and dump our Exxon stock before making a formal recommendation.

parlownr

I also use Mobil 1, and change it when the MID says, but I go one step further. I send a sample of the used oil out for analysis. The lab checks for wear metals, viscosity, insolubles, water, fuel, and total acid number. I'll continue to have the oil tested as long as it is under warranty. This way if there is a bushing or bearing that is starting to go bad, I should be able to catch it before it is too late. (That is before the warranty expires). I'm sure there are many oil labs out there, but I've been using Blackstone Labs for 5 years now on various cars, and I'm happy with the service.

SpicyMikey

All current petroleum based motor oil has some percentage of synthetic componds in it for improved lubrication. "Synthetic oils" are simply 100% synthetic componds with 0% petroleum Heavy petroleum products in the oil lubricate just as well, but, they create a byproduct informally referred to as "sludge". As we all know, this can be a bad thing for engines over time.

I didn't know that little fact about the RDX, but I suppose the tolerances for sludge on that RDX engine (with it's turbo) must be low. To avoid problems they probably recommend 100% synthetic. Not sure Mobil 1 is much better then any other.

If you can afford to use 100% synthetic, it can only be a good thing for the longterm health of the engine. How much of a good thing (i.e. cost/benefit) is debatable I suppose.

I use 100% synthetic but I'm not brand loyal

Rich in NC

3750 to 4000 miles?
That may be counter productive. I don't think I can dig it up anymore but there was a study out (SAE?) that shows engine wear drops to it's lowest point as oil gets into it's "extended life" period. The theory is that the additive packages are somewhat agressive in new oil and tend to be better balanced later in their life.

One of the things, IMO, that is an absolute joke is comparing different oils via oil analysis. The theory is that the oils that shows the less heavy metals content for equal mileage is the best oil (less wear).

The huge flaw in that is that good oils are able to carry a lot of contaniments in suspension and keep the engine clean. Less sophisticated oils carry less in suspension and look great on a heavy metal analysis but do a very poor job of engine cleaning.

A 30W non detergent oil looks great on a heavy metals test but does a very poor job on engine cleaning and wear prevention.

gdevine

So what are the results with the RL? Has the lab found the viscosity to be higher or lower than non synthetic oil.

The reason I use synthetic is because I feel that I can go longer in between changes and that the oil is still more slippery, or not as broken down as regular oil.

I would not feel comfortable using regular oil and follow the MID's recommended oil change frequency. It may be in my mind but I think the Synthetic holds up to time and milage a lot better. So do the lab results show this to be true?

SpicyMikey

I thought standard synthetics (e.g. Mobil 1) were "designed" to last only as long as regular oil. I never read anything about significant extended life. I know they can be formulated to last longer and sell those types (usually for commercial fleets, etc.), but those are a different product and more expensive. Again, I when you boil it all down, it always seemed the main advantage of 100% synthetics was the sludge buildup factor.

Anyone more authoritative on the subject, speak up.

Chas2

FWIW,

Honda has a standard, HTO-06, for oil that can be used in the RDX. At the time of introduction, I believe only Mobil 1 had been approved for use under that standard. Other oils may work with Honda to attain that approval. Penzoil Platinum, for example, has now been approved under that standard.

As I understand it, full synthetics are far less likely to coke under high heat of a turbo than conventional oils, which is why Honda specified synthetic.

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/D...ticMotorOil.pdf

SpicyMikey

Hmm, thanks for clarification. That's exactly what I was intuitively figuring but I was only guessing

vluu

For those who are currently using synthetic Mobil1 in their RL's, can you feel a difference in the engine performance or smoother ride? I am seriously considering this option to go to synthetic over oil. The Acura dealer I bought from gave me "free" standard oil changes with my new RL. They actually offer this with all new Acura vechiles, which was a plus when buying form them. I would just have to shell out $25 for the price difference.

Professor

I have always used Mobil 1 since my first oil change. I buy it by the case at Autozone and carry it to the dealer for the change. Only $16.99 for labor, filter, and a car wash.

I typically change oil every 12,000 miles. I base this on a friend's dissertation on oil life. Dyno oil doesn't break-down until about 9000 miles. Full syn is good for 20k miles. There is little variance across brands.

SpicyMikey

No I don't feel the engine running smoother after an oil change, however, it does seem to holdup better then regular oil and I don't start "hearing" the need for an oil change as soon with synthetics. Regardless, I still follow regular rules for oil change with synthetics.

I read the same marketing hype we all read. Not sure how much it we can believe. The only thing I understand to be a scientific fact is the lack of carbon buildup in synthetics because of zero petroleum componds. No question synthetics will keep your engine cleaner over the long haul. Will they reduce engine wear better then regular petroleum oil changes? I don't know. I'd love someone to post a link to an independent study on that one (not one done by Mobile 1, etc).

gdevine

Are there any metallurgists in the house? Come on there must be a scientific study on syn vs reg motor oil by a metallurgist. I want to know if synthetic oil extends engine life or am I paying $30 extra per oil change and or blowing it by not changing my oil every 3500 miles. I've never read a definite answer on this topic.

One thing I do know is that an engine starts without effort on a cold morning with synthetic oil.

rmesola

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

kirbyflorida

Many cars have done over hundreds of thousands of miles on the original motor using regular oil.
Changing it often is the key as far as I have read.
Only time I would use syn oil is if I had a turbo, due to the high temp.

I am sure our engines will do 300,000 plus miles with reg oil if changed at less than 4500 miles.

SpicyMikey

I tend to agree Kirby. The key is regular timely replacement.

Although, lets not kid ourselves, there is definitely real differences in performance in various oils. Additives are the key to a good oil. That's what gives us the stable viscosity, cling, etc. All lubricants, whether they are mostly base petroleum or synthetic chemicals, break down with use (petroleum oils also break down with time). You can't get away from that.

Professor

I have to disagree. Oil changes at 4500 miles are a waste of money. Even the manual sets it a 7500 miles under normal driving conditions.

Also the performance difference in all syn brands is +/- 5% in terms of breakdowns. Look at it another way... why do Acura dealers use different brands for the same model of car? At one, their standard oil is Kendall and another is Vavoline.

The only reason I bring my on oil is that both dealers will use Mobil 1 for full syn, but charge about $4 more a quart.

SpicyMikey

Which part where you disagreeing with? I didn't say to get your oil changed at 4500 miles? I was just suggesting that using regular oil will be fine as long as you change it regularly (e.g. recommended intervals). Synthetics are good because of the sludge problem that can occur with regular oil using base petroleum products. I usually use Mobil 1 but I'm not preaching Synth oil here. Use what you feel comfortable using.

Professor

OK mea culpa...I thought for a minute you were one of the Jiffy Jube 3500 miles guys!

SpicyMikey

LOL, if you listen to Jiffy Lube you'd be replacing the oil every weekend

I know you mentioned earlier that you go 12k miles on your mobil 1. I usually go about 8k if I'm using synth and 6k with regular. That's just always been my general rule of thumb. Personally, I don't need to watch the Odo. I can hear when I need an oil change. Maybe being in Florida where everything is running a lot hotter all year round causes things to breakdown quicker.

kirbyflorida

Internal combustion causes moisture in your oil, this is not something you want. No matter what oil you use, you will get moisture and use up additives. Syn is NOT needed in this engine, period.
Basically the difference is 1 oil change per year on average, so $30 to $50, it is the cheapest thing you can do to help your engine.
I believe the 900,000 mile Civic used regular oil.
If you look at the high mileage Honda stories (lots of them), the one common thing is oil changes at less than 5000 miles.
http://www.hondabeat.com/highmiles.php?intStart=25

kirbyflorida

Interesting expert opinion on oil changes and type of oil. Remember, our oil filter is VERY small now, much less capacity than the large ones of past.

http://www.cars2go.co.nz/SITE_Defaul...eFrequency.asp