black label

Greetings RL Fans.

Strange news from Acura today. The RL's build out for the year will occur in December. All RL's which were recently ordered, and were scheduled to be built in January have been cancelled (I hope none of you had recently ordered a vehicle).

Essentially, this means that there will be no 2008 RL's that will actually be manufactured in 2008, they will all be completed in 2007.

With the recent sales numbers, you can't really blame them for cutting production early. My question would be, what's their plan?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Seems to indicate the possibility of an early MMC with 2009 models appearing in early to mid 2009, perhaps?

INSPIRE 32V

iTrader: (1)

where is all the info coming from?

elessar

Your avatar is quite fitting on this post.

CGTSX2004, you meant "appearing in early to mid 2008", right?

Mike_TX

Interesting. I reported a week or so ago that my dealer hinted at Acura "just stopping production" of the RL, and that he was getting his allocation of 2008's this week.

I had told him of rumors the Sayama (?) plant was shutting down in February 2008 for retooling, and that I wondered if that was for a refreshed model for 2009. He seemed not to know about that, but he DID say that a V-8 for the RL (based on the upcoming NSX engine) was pretty much an accepted fact.

Putting two and two together (a dangerous game), I'm wondering if that's not the case. Sales have been punk, and the prospect of slogging through two more years with no major change just wasn't going to cut it. So if I were Honda, I'd be saying we need to do something significant to get sales jump-started. Let's either a.) go ahead and shut down 2008 production early and do a major refresh for the 2009 model year, or b.) jump ahead a year and do the planned 2010 model change a year early. That would give us a whole new RL for the 2009 model year.

It probably also means the 2009 model (whether it's a revised 2nd Gen or a completely new 3rd Gen) will be an early launch, since retooling usually takes place in June or July.

The idea of a freshening for just one model year isn't terribly attractive, IMO. They just tried that with the TL-S, and I understand those haven't exactly been flying off the shelves. With all the exciting stuff coming out from other mfr's, the 2nd Gen RL is destined to get shoved farther and farther back in the shadows over the next 2 years, and Honda needs badly to get something out there that slugs it out with the big boys.

We can only watch and hope, I guess.

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black label

Trust me, it's all good info. I cant's say much more than that.

123456SPEED

But any RL has gotta take a backseat to any new TL, Acura's biggest seller. so I would assume most attention and resources will be TL oriented, then TSX, then RL. I don't see how Acura could release 3 or even 2 new models in close proximity. They never have before.

Mike_TX

One more thing, on engines. Yes, we all know Honda is a motor company, and that Honda motors have traditionally made their power at high revs. But let's face it - this is 2007 and that thinking may have to change.

My point is that the 3.7-liter V-6 from the MDX will almost certainly become the base engine for the RL. But while it has a few more hp and a little more torque than the 3.5-liter, it has the same power characteristics ... both hp and torque come at high revs. If you move the torque curve down to a lower rpm level, you almost HAVE to reduce the horsepower - it's physics. Change one and the other changes in the opposite direction. You can lower the rpms at which the torque peaks if you move the horsepower farther up the rpm scale, but there's no usable room left at the top of the band as it is.

So, unless you add cylinders, increase displacement, add forced induction or invent some new cylinder-charging/scavenging scheme, the 3.7 is just about maxed out at its current 300 hp, 275 ft-lbs of torque. The introduction of a new V-8 is the obvious answer, and that now appears to be almost a certainty. The extra cylinders and displacement would allow them to stuff more hp and torque lower down in the rpm band for increased tractability. Add cylinder deactivation and i-VTEC for economy, and you have something Infiniti, BMW, M-B, Lexus, et al don't offer. With that in their pocket, Acura wouldn't have to apologize to anyone for a 300 hp 3.7-liter V-6 base engine, and the line will appeal to a wider audience.

We're all playing guessing games here, but we just might be about to see a really exciting new-gen RL.

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black label

The next TL and TSX are more in a fine tuning stage at this point as I understand it. The MDX and RDX are new enough not to need any major retooling.

They either need to make the RL more competitive, be happy with the current level of sales, or discontinue the model entirely.

Dealers had complained to Corporate regarding model releases. Starting from the release of the 2005 RL in late 2004, Acura did not release any new or redesigned model until August of 2006 when we got the RDX(although the TSX got a nice refresh). They claim that they are going to avoid long spaces between the release of new models.

So far, they have been better. RDX in 8-06, MDX in 11-06, TL type S in 2007 (hey it's a lot different than a 06 TL). If we get a new TSX in early 08 (my guess is around April), then a redesigned TL in late 08 or early 09, The RL could show up shortly after at which point we are looking at MMC for the RDX and MDX.

Rob144

Hmmmm. And hmmmm, again.

This follows a pattern set with the Acura Legend, where it kind of disappeared for a while when the car was changed. The car kind of fizzled prior to the 1G RL, as did the 1G RL prior to the current iteration.

Still, its hard to believe they'd pull the plug worldwide, since they just introduced the car in some markets. So, unless they make a US-only RL, we're going to have to wait for the next Legend, which I can't imagine coming before 2009.

My guess is that the US-only TL will overlap the current RL to such an extent that Acura thought it was better to pull the plug than to have frustrated dealers allocate money and lot space on a car that already gathers dust in the showroom.

If Acura is the Japanese BMW, then the TL will fight the 5 series; the TSX will fight the 3-series; the MDX fights the X5; and the RDX goes up against the X3.

Rob144

SpicyMikey

It seems consistent with the rumors we've been hearing for months that the RL is getting a full remake next year. This latest news doesn't surprise me too much. I agree it's a bit unprecedented to do three FMC's in one year, but, Acura needs it. IF they do it, then I'm pleasantly surprised in them. This is what should be done.

neuronbob

What unsurprising news. The RL indeed becomes the next Q45, which disappeared after dismal sales for a complete revamp. At least this time it didn't take eight years for Acura to decide to make a redesign.

I can hardly wait to see where Acura goes with the RL next.

My Sleeping Beauty is finally truly a limited edition.

EDIT:

Acura is most definitely not the Japanese BMW. Acura lost that race long ago to Infiniti. My belief is that with AWD across the line, it will be closer to a Japanese Audi.

SPUDMTN

So then the question is: how long with Acura leave the lineup without an RL? A matter of months? A year? Does anyone really see Acura introducing a new TL, TSX, and RL all in the same year? I certainly don't.

This is very interesting--seems very much unlike Honda.

But who knows. Only time will tell.

Oh well--even greater deals are soon to be found on 2008 RLs.

larrynimmo

If you look at past posting from me....my crystal ball sayes....no RL my09. You will next see the RL in early spring 09 as a 10 model year.

Godwhacker

Im still not buying the V-8 line. Its just not Honda like.

My thinking is that they will put a V-6 Diesel in the RL, Accord, MDX and the like. Going to diesel will help cure what many people's main beef with Honda engines is: poor low end torque. Also, with diesel being more efficient that fits Honda's image as well. Lastly, Toyota has a good lead with the whole hybrid thing. With diesel, Honda can offer an alternative to hybrid power without having to compete as directly with Toyota, at least in the short run.

Better start taking note of those truck stops!!!

black label

I don't think they will be without an RL, they have a decent supply on the ground and the cars from the December Build out won't hit the ground until Feb.

My guess is early 2009 for the next RL.

black label

If they make a diesel, I'm ready to convert it to run on grease!!!

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/any-one-ever-consider-grease-car-378249/

wstr75

My guess is the present RL design will morph in the new TL at TL+ pricing. Why? - because the new Accord is darn near the 2nd gen RL in many respects. The RL or whatever the new top-of-line Acura sedan is to be called will be larger, with a variable cylinder operation V8, stuffed with state-of-the-art electronics/radar cruise control, etc. and will be priced around $55K. This an educated guess as Acura has no choice but to go up-market with its products so as to distance itself from its Honda offerings and the Koreans. So we are probably looking at this new TL in the near future and the RL replacement further out on the timeline. In another year I'll be ready for a nifty, larger RL with new features, won't you, too?

JAB00

^^I agree^^ The new TL probably will have more characteristics similar to M, 5 series and GS. The TSX will move up to compete more evenly with the 3 series, G, and IS. A new flagship sedan will premiere in 09/10 calender year. That would make the most sense but this is anyone's guess.

neuronbob

We KNOW the next TL is coming next MY. It'll likely be bigger and more powerful. maybe it'll be close to the current RL in size? My hope is that they keep the next RL sporty as well, or at least have a sporty suspension as an option that the actually market. In general, I'm hoping Acura will have something up its sleeve that will keep me in the Acura family when I next upgrade in another couple of years (maybe more?). I'm sure they will. Otherwise, my crystal ball says that my next car will be a BMW.

lumpulus

Why would it have to change? One of the reasons I buy Acura\Honda, aside from the reliability, is because they make this power at high revs with less displacement(IE S2000 with a 2l, 4Cyl making 240 hp!)

You can get plenty of torque from a Honda engine, you just have to know how.

black label

I have nothing to base this on but my dreams but...

How about a version of the RL with a V8 some where in the 4.0-4.4 range that comes with the MRF sport suspension (from the MDX). Price it in the 55-60K range. It obviously couldn't be the prime seller in volume, but it's a showcase car (M5?). That would leave them to sell the majority of them as a V6 version like BMW and Mercedes, but have the option of that "premier" model.

neuronbob

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. I'd pay for a potentially sporty halo car like that. Most of you wouldn't, but that's OK. Just look at my poll, in which 30% of respondents would consider a V8 RL. Maybe 10% of RLs would be sold like that, and the others would have the 3.7 V6. Believe me, I'd stick with Acura for that.

And if the RL is a "no-go"....I'd hope for a kickass 4G TL before hopping over to the BMW side.

ssim3

535I 5.8 to 60 & 17/28 mpg with rwd sup handling to the RL. Will probably be my next ride.

kirbyflorida

Remember that is about $15,000 in real dollars.

deepdezal

Not to mention Bavarian reliability..



BMW= Bring My Wallet. (I had to say that)



Yes-Not everything is perfect and for the short time that I have owned this car.. It is a hoot to drive..

lumpulus

Owned what car?

Mike_TX

I say that only because Honda is hanging out there all by itself with that thinking. And it was fine in S2000's, early Accords, and other lightweight, economy- or sport-oriented cars.

But nowadays, with full-size cars getting bigger and heavier, customers are walking away from Honda/Acura dealerships to go to Infiniti, Lexus, BMW. etc., who are offering both hp AND torque down in the real-world rev range.

Put another way, I think they've stretched the little-engine, high-rpm torque formula as far as they can. The existing RL has good hp and decent torque - ON PAPER - but the constant complaint from owners and buyers seems to be that it needs more low-end torque and usable power.

IMO, Honda needs to either stick to lighter vehicles or start making engines that don't rely on high revs to make power. After all, it's hard to make high revs from 10mph on the on-ramp when that opening appears in the freeway traffic.

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deepdezal

sorry-RL

CL6

From what I hear Honda is going to use the existing mechanicals and do a new body for the RL, apparently the first time in their corporate history that this has happened.

Chas2

Yea, I agree with that! I hear more than my fair share of BMW, Mercedes and Audi repair problems.

Rexorg

For any model car in the $40-50K range there is a finite number of persons that can/will buy it as a new car (75% of car owners in the US have a used car as their primary vehicle). It's now obvious that the RL has now reached that limiit in its present itineration. I still believe the '09 will have to be something special to entice present owners '05-'08 to buy a new one. Just putting a new body on the same chassis is not going to do it. As I've said before, Acura will have to hit a home run with the RL for it to be the flagship of the brand. Otherwise, the flagship will be the MDX.

Chas2

I think the de facto flagship IS the MDX. All the dealers are pushing the MDX as THE Acura to own, nary a mention of the RL.

static808

Well, lets hope if we can "trade in" our current model for the new one, they should give us a decent shake on a trade, I hope. Not that the GS, M35x are selling like hotcakes but some residual value would be nice for a "limited edition".

I intended on keeping my RL for quite sometime and currently looking to trade in my wife's 04 TL for a 08 MDX..like next week..

I might swap out my 05 RL for a 09 TL if its true to form...but if a new RL is coming out that rivals the LS, 7, etc.. then I will pull the trigger on that, if its reasonable in price...

Just got back from a business trip in Europe. Rode in a 2007 S320 Diesel. Quiet diesel engine, decent torque for a large german sled and the interior of the S is all class...

Why can't Acura do something similar? I'm sure they could eat away some Lexus and Audi sales in Europe with some V6 diesels...just a thought.

TampaRLX-SH

The dealer will push the vehicle that offers them the most margin / profit. They cannot get a profit off the RL, especially if RL inventory has been sitting on the lot eating into overhead.

I drove an MDX for 6 days. I was impressed. It is very nice and it was very familiar to the RL features. I may buy one as a weekend hauler and passenger vehicle (selfishly keeping the RL to myself - and scuffless!).

Now I am back in my RL. The MDX, as nice as it is, is not an RL, IMHO. The smoothness and refined feel of the RL is even more familiar to me than I remembered. I highly recommend taking a periodic break from the car....you will again appreciate it's subtle but assuring qualities.

Not very related, but many cruise lines have flagships that are not the newest, largest or most expensive....but they are venerable.

To me, a flagship is still a car, and not a truck, SUV or crossover. I know, times are a changin....

kenny5

I agree with TampaRL that a flagship should be a 4 door sedan. Call me conservative, but I believe the sedan usually provide the best ride, comfort and handling, when compared with trucks and SUVs.

neuronbob

I agree with this. The MDX is, for all intent and purpose, Acura's flagship. And it's selling reasonably well.

My opinion (along with Tampa and Kenny) is also that the flagship should be a no-holds barred sedan. As others have pointed out, Honda's thinking is not traditionally oriented in that way, though. I hope Acura hits a home run with the new car!

The RL's chassis is perfect, just tweak the size and shape, and give us an engine with more low-end torque, and it's done!

Mike_TX

Can you elaborate a little?

Are you saying ALL the mechanicals (engine and drivetrain, suspension, etc.) will be carried over, but just packaged in a new body? If that new body is indeed larger - as we've all been hearing, and as the dealers have been begging for - isn't that going to stress the existing chassis? IOW, many of us think the wheelbase would need to be stretched to accommodate a larger/longer body.

Also, are you saying the existing 3.5 engine will be used, as opposed to the 3.7?

Last, does your rumor suggest this is just a one-year change, or is this supposed to be the 3rd gen RL?

I'd personally kinda hate to see an artificially-stretched body on the RL, as the current one looks almost perfectly "balanced" as it is. If they resort to awkwardly long overhangs to get the extra space in there, it could sure mess up the cohesiveness of the styling.

I know there's nothing out there but rumors at this point, but anything you could add would be appreciated.

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Shotgun

Agreed!!! Been loyal to Acura since my 89' Legend coupe (great car), my 99 and 05' RL. I too want to stay in the Acura family but I want a little more! More HP, torque, 0-60 in the mid 5 second range and an ungoverned top-end of at least 155 and of course I still want all of the high tech, quality and luxury features of my present 05' RL. Plus, I'm willing to pay for it - is that asking for too much?

Shotgun

Roger that!!! Where do I sign up>>>