Courage

I've read the different threads comparing the M35x and the RL and finally had a chance to test drive both today. It's going to be a hard decision.

Acura impressions:
Car handles well (I'm used to front-wheel drive)
Navigation and technology fun and handy (sales person demonstrated voice commands)
Cabin seemed a bit tight--wish it had a little more room
Great sound system
Trunk space small

Infiniti impressions:
Car feels a little sportier but there's more road noise
I liked the birds-eye view feature on the navigation
A little more room in the cabin than the RL
Heated AND cooled seat--Acura only had heated seats.
Dashboard/console was not too sleek--I didn't like the little analog clock (I believe it's in all Infinitis)
Trunk space rather small.

A couple of questions I'm still reviewing:
With the keyless system, what's the best way to deal with valet parking? Car washes?
I've read that RL owners have had issue with dead batteries because they don't realize they haven't turned the car off. This will probably be more of an issue when handing the key fob over to a parking attendant. I prefer the push-button start. The salesperson told me that it's primarily a concern with older drivers.

I fully recognize that most of this is subjective but would welcome constructive comments. I plan on test driving them both one more time next week and will subsequently make a determination.

I hope everyone had a good holiday!

vp911

Welcome to the forums!

Let me start with your questions:
keyless system: Give the remote to the valet, not the physical key itself. You can remove the key from the remote.

The dead battery problem has been resolved - but as far as leaving the car on, my way of telling people is - if the steering wheel moves away from the driver, then the car is fully off.

On the other things - yes, they are all subjective, but after owning an Infiniti and now three Acuras with the navi - I can say, the Acura nav BLOWS away Infiniti in coverage. The birds-eye view is kind of cool, but the novelty wears off quickly and the entire system is stupid because you cannot do anything while driving (e.g. inputs); whereas, the Acura you can input while driving and has a lot more information in it's database.

Good luck with your decision.

kgd

IMO the interior of the Acura is second to none. It blends technology, easy of use with great use of real wood. Cooled seats would be nice but with climate control I have never missed them. Buy the one that feel you can't live without.

catsailr

The SH-AWD is a big plus for the RL. That's the main reason I traded my TL for the RL.

Mike_McCready

Me and my dad just finished our Test-drives on the BMW 530xi, Infiniti M35x, and the Acura RL. It came down to the M35x and the RL. And we just chose the RL mainly because of the CMBS and far more user-friendly navigation system. And our long-lasting loyalty to Acura may have gotten into the mix there somehow

But I think the exterior on the RL is better that the M35x, and I prefered the handling on the RL as well. But seriously, both of these cars are really great. Alot comes down to what features speak to you the most, and who excelled in those.
Good luck!

hondamore

I agree. I'll give my usual comment in the RL vs M35x debate - do NOT equate the M's AWD with the RL's. The SH-AWD technology is cutting edge and is truly amazing on dry pavement and in inclement circumstances. The rest of the debate is mostly a personal preference on the appearance of the two great vehicles. I obviously preferred the RL and I found that the interior of the M looked cheap in comparison to the RL. Good luck with your choice.

Dr. E in TN

If you are looking at the 2006 RL which now has a backup camera accessory and I-pod accessory as well as numerous technological features that even were improved upon from my 2005 RL, I think the RL beats out the M. I added a rear deck spoiler for added effect. I know that Acura service and support if fantastic as well. The more I use the RL's navigation the more I love it. With the center rotating jog dial, you can zoom in and out flawlessly within seconds making traveling so much easier. You are correct about the cramped size of the RL, I do agree and wish Acura had made it a little bigger inside like the M. Consumer Reports loves the M more than the RL, but I think it's because they are obsessed with the TL (and they couldn't care less about the comparable Infiniti G-35.) I would buy the RL. With the added features this year (some of which we would really like to add to our 2005's), I think that the RL is the absolute perfect mid-size luxury sedan. One other thing, the RL has one free year of Onstar. Regardless of what you think about Onstar, it is handy dandy when you need it, cool when you don't, and not available in the Infinit M!!!

vp911

Dr. E - I Agree with almost everything you said, except the acura service and support. I find all my local dealers to be filled with idiots, and people who have dealt with ACS know that they are terrible. Infiniti, OTOH, is not much better. With my lemon Infiniti - the dealer and Infiniti corporate had 8 opportunities (5 more than required by the lemon law) to repair the issues, yet they still failed. Now, a company with god service and support is lexus. Any problems that had come up with our RX300, LS400, LS430 and GX, were all taken care of quickly.

Everythign else with the RL, in my opinion, beats the M. But, again, as others have stated, generally, at the price point you are looking to pay - the majority of the features are subjective and it depends what you want in the car. Better handling? RL. Cooled seats? M. There are tradeoffs with both cars - but they are both undoubtedly excellent cars.

IMO - Go another couple times to both dealers, back to back, and drive both cars. Choose the one with the things you like the best, and hammer out a deal.

Courage

Thanks, Mike. Although the test car I drove had the technology package (which, as you know, includes the CMBS along with run flat tires), the salesperson opined that these are unnecessary frills. They're also expensive to the tune of 4K more. Why does your dad think these options warrant the extra money? Nothing can replace careful driving (although I guess this system might alert an inattentive driver to a problem) and I don't see the real benefit of run-flat tires if one performs regular maintenance on the vehicle. [An aside: it would be nice if manufacturers created a system to automatically maintain the tire pressure at the appropriate levels with little or no intervention from the owner.] Your insights are appreciated.

Courage

Can you really tell the difference between SH-AWD and the ordinary all wheel drive technology in other vehicles? I test drove both the M35x and RL and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps it's the way I drive, i.e., I don't drive my cars hard and generally am not concerned with how fast I can take a turn or all the blather about torque differentials. I am looking for a reliable (top priority) sedan which is fun to drive. Thanks.

vp911

Courage - as far as the SH-AWD - if you don't drive hard into turns, the only time you will find the use of it is if you are in an emergency situation and you need to swerve around an object, car, person, etc. IMO this is a huge safety feature which could mean the difference between hitting something and avoiding it.

Courage

Dr. E. in TN wrote, Consumer Reports loves the M more than the RL, but I think it's because they are obsessed with the TL (and they couldn't care less about the comparable Infiniti G-35.) I would buy the RL. With the added features this year (some of which we would really like to add to our 2005's), I think that the RL is the absolute perfect mid-size luxury sedan. One other thing, the RL has one free year of Onstar. Regardless of what you think about Onstar, it is handy dandy when you need it, cool when you don't, and not available in the Infinit M!!!

Thanks, Dr. E. I just read Consumer's opinion of the car and it was rather scathing. To avoid any copyright issues, I'll quote only a few key lines (fair use doctrine so it's permitted).

The RL doesn't stand out in its class.
The ride transmits ridges and ruts in a relatively pronounced way.
The array of buttons is dizzying, and it's easy to leave the keyless ignition system in Accessory mode, leading to a dead battery, which we experienced twice.
We expect reliability to be average, according to our latest subscriber survey.

The last two are particularly concerning (standing out in its class and the ridges business doesn't bother me--I liked my test drive). I've heard from others that turning the car off is not intuitive, i.e., it's not always clear that the car is actually off and not in Accessory mode. There is NO more important litmus test for me than reliability. We can't have the car in the shop a lot and I don't want to fret about the wife having car drama--been there, done it. Thanks again Dr. E. for referring me to Consumers--it looks like I have a lot more research to do before making a final decision.

vp911

Courage - I want to point out two thins. The subscriber survey - there was a thread on the forums about that, I would suggest searching for it. You should ask yourself, how many people who own the RL actually subscribe to consumer reports? And then, how many of them bothered to respond to the survey. This is a very small sample - and not going to be representative of the cars (for the RL or any other car)

Second - the dead battery thing MAY have been caused by the acuralink module which has since been fixed. If it was indeed leaving the key in the accessory position. You know the car is off when the steering wheel moves away from you. IMO it is easy to figure out, but there are indeed some people that have struggled with that.

Now, the ridges - yep, you can feel them, but switching to other tires makes a world of a difference with the car. The RL stands out in it's class - with some of the technology toys it has (e.g. navtraffic); however, the other cars (M35x and GS300awd) have their advantages also.

lflorack

Since I came from a '04 TL, I was worried that I might be giving up something in the handeling when I moved to the '05 RL I now own. I actually had to drive the RL 2x to convince myself that the SH-AWD was as good as I'd heard. Unless you push the car into some corners or curves a bit, or get into some slick conditions -- such as snow, ice or rain -- you might not be able to tell just how good it is.

Now that I've been in all of those situations with it, I can tell you that it's simply awsome!

Courage

That's very helpful, vp911. I will search for the thread you reference. Surveys, to your point, can be misleading if not conducted appropriately. The size of the sampling against the whole is certainly important--statisticians refer to a statistically significant sample. For example, a very small percentage of the country is polled in presidential elections but the outcomes are remarkably close to the actual results (with the one notable exception being Truman--Dewey but they stopped polling a few weeks before the election and the tide had turned.) The predicted Infiniti reliability is above average; without an opportunity to analyze how the data was collected and without an explanation of how it was normalized, i.e, the mechanism to ensure they're really comparing apples to apples, one can only assume they used the same methodology for every car and the rate of response was about equivalent.

I am going to spend the rest of the evening googling everything available on the sedans in question. I continue to dither on making a 50K purchase. Your commentary has been quite valuable; I'm sure I'll have more questions after my search. Thanks again, vp911, for your kind replies.

Courage

Thanks! The main reason we're upgrading to AWD is for better traction in the inclement weather.

Dr. E in TN

I think service is always people dependent, and I have had some great local service but understand your frustrations when you hit a brick wall. I have not dealt with national Acura service to form an opinion. Just to clarify, I think that Consumer Reports ranks the RL a bit low because the much less expensive TL is such a great car, but I have driven both and the RL is worth the difference. Infiniti totally redid the M car and got it right so Consumer Reports is lauding its greatness. With the new added features of the 2006 RL however, I think it beats the M in every category including style except for what I read "interior headroom" but I haven't driven one to know for sure. I agree to drive the car as much as possible. Play hardball. When I test drove my RL, I prearranged with the dealer to leave my car and take my wife to lunch for a couple of hours without the salesman of course to get a great feel for the car. This sold me!

vp911

I can't agree more. If you spend a good amount of time driving it (and the M) you will get a feel for both cars and see which you prefer.

dseag2

Courage, I'm a former '05 RL owner and a current '06 M45 owner, so I'll try to give you my subjective opinions on both:

Acura RL:
-Nicest interior and exterior fit/finish in class IMO
-Most user-friendly nav system (you can program it while moving)
-Most user-friendly voice command
-Attractive, conservative design
-Reasonably fast, incredible cornering capability
-Extremely quiet
-Problems in 5,000 miles: Squealy brakes, significant delay in XM display updating information, NavTraffic never worked in MIA. Never fixed.
-Service: Rick Case Acura always gave me loaner but required I fill out paperwork and leave a credit card imprint

Infiniti M:
-Nice interior and exterior fit/finish. Not as nice as RL, but feels more substantial IMO
-Decent nav system, but not as good as RL (can only program "address book" and "previous addresses" while moving)
-Decent voice command. Not as good as RL.
-Attractive design. Not as luxurious as RL but a little more edgy.
-Not as quiet as RL. More road noise (at least on Sport model)
-Quick. Competent handler. Transmission "blips" downshifts to lower gear to keep driver in optimum rev range
-Problems in 8,000 miles: Dead driver's seat. Fixed overnight with new control unit.
-Service: Always receive loaner from South Motors Infiniti with no paperwork/credit card. Service manager came to my house (35 miles) to drop off loaner and pick up the M.

Honestly, I'm not sure I would have ever traded my RL for the M35. There just wasn't that much difference overall and the quality of the RL seemed more impressive to me. I traded primarily for the V-8.

I hope that helps in your decision.

jftjr

The SH-AWD is very noticable when it kicks in -- but you really have to either (a) be in a low-traction situation or (b) really push the car near its handling limits to feel it.

So, if you have the inclination to lay on the thottle hard in the middle of a turn, you'll feel it -- it's as if the car plants itself and the turning radius becomes smaller, and the car just powers its way around corners. It's almost like playing Gran Turismo.... it feels like carving a good turn on a pair of skis -- you push down, load up the skis, and then you TURN.... it's great. Definitely worth it.... but it only works when you're applying power in a turn -- not when you're on the brake.

If you're not the kind of person that wants to do that kind of point-and-squirt driving, it's also a great safety feature. Being able to steer around obstacles like that with stability and confidence will almost certainly come in handy in collision-avoidance.

Rob L

don't put much value in the complaint about CR leaving the ignition in acc mode...i could MAYBE see someone dong this once but twice? you lack basic human intelligence if you do this twice.

fact is if the stereo is on then it will still be on as you leave the car without turning it off. the steering wheel won't tilt up unless the ignition is off. there are about 49764986984 diff things that stay on if the ignition isnt in the off position.

I say either car is a good choice. I personally prefer the interior and exterior design of the RL and the sh-awd is cool.

scottj

Put me in the baffled category for how something that works exactly like a regular key (except for pulling it out) is not intuitive when it comes to shutting down the RL.

I think the fun thing about being a consumer right now in the LPS category is that there really aren't any bad cars in the bunch. They all have different trade-offs that make this sort of discussion interesting as you look at what various folks value.

waltermac

Courage...As you can see from the posts here, the dealer experience is important. You haven't said where you are located, but in my area north of Baltimore the Nationwide Infiniti dealership is a lousy place to buy a car, but the Frankel Acura dealer is top notch.

When I shopped, I refused to even test drive an Infiniti at Nationwide because they had messed up one of my cars before. There were just too many good cars in this class to mess with a poorly managed outfit.

Bottom line advice: be sure of the dealer as well as the car.

As far as your questions:

Leaving the power on: You have to be stoned or stupid to do this. It's far more likely to leave the keys in the car, and the RL won't let you do that because of the fob.

Fob & parking: I leave my RL with valet parking in DC public lots all the time. Initially, they looked at the fob and pretended to understand (most parking attendents in DC are barely able to speak english). They also have a hard time because the fob doesn't hang on their racks (they tape it to a card instead). Now, a year later, they seem to be more accustomed to keyless cars, but they still have to talk it over in a foriegn dialect each time I pick it up. So you can expect some awkwardness, but it's no biggie. If anything I get special treatment and attention.

AWD: I also don't drive the car hard, but have come to appreciate the SH-AWD. We've all had the experience of hitting an off ramp or country road turn at a higher than safe speed. I've had it happen 2-3 times while in a strange area or distracted. The AWD just shoots you safely through and you have that "what happened?" feeling. It's truely amazing. My wifes BMW 330xi has standard AWD and it's much inferior in these situations.

Courage

Great information!!

Re: Key Fob-- The real user experience is helpful. Based on CR, I pictured parking attendants leaving the car on and killing the battery. I guess that's not a real concern.

Choosing the right dealer: I live in Northern NJ; there are three main Acura dealers in my vicinity: DCH, Park Avenue, and Open Road. I know DCH sponsors this website but anyone have any experience--good or bad--with any of these?

On Star: What, if anything, do you use this for? I looked at their website (interesting that it's a GM product) and their standard service is helpful if you're in an accident or need road side assistance. Their directions service is rather pricey and probably not necessary with the navigation system. I am curious if people renew after the one year free. It seems many manufacturers have abandoned this service (Lexus, Volkswagen, Audi, etc.).

SH--AWD-- Again, great information. Safety AND reliability are obviously the most important qualities.

dseag2-- I see that you traded your RL for the Infiniti after only one year. Isn't the M45 real wheel drive? Was the V8 worth the trade?

BTW, what happens if/when the key fob's battery runs low? Is there a way to turn the car on with the key?

Thanks again!!!

vp911

Courage - Couple things - first, if the key fob battery runs low - the car will warn you ahead of time. But, yes, you can pull off the knob from the steering wheel and put in the key manually to turn on the car.

Personally, I will probably renew onstar for the $199 plan for a year. I use it to report major accidents when I am driving. Most people simply drive by accidents without thinking twice; however, after my accident with the TL I was grateful that so many people stopped to help me (and the drivers of the other two cars) and made me realize that not everybody will actually stop and call the police. Simply pushing the red emergency button will get ahold of emergency services and they already have your location.

I believe Audi still offers ontar on their A8. Lexus is bringing back their version - lexus link - I believe partially through the 2006 model year with digital equipment. BMW still offers their bmw assist and MBenz still offers their teleaid service.

Courage

Originally Posted by lasvegasrl
I want to put in my 2 cents on the dead battery issue. I find this to be incredibly frustrating, and I am beginning to really dislike this car. I have been driving and not reselling my 3rd car, a 2000 Accord, simply because I have been stranded by my RL so much. The RL is currently at the dealer (again), and they are updating the software, so we will see if the RL works now. I simply can't believe the problems with dead battery I have had on easily the most expensive car I have ever owned, not to mention the lack of help from the dealer. The dealer kept accusing me of not shutting off the car correctly, until it froze with the ignition switch in the off position, so dead, it could not be moved at all. I pay 900 dollars a month including my down payment, insurance, etc on my lease, and I have had poor reliability for around 9 months now. Very unhappy.

This is concerning. The dead battery issue seems to be hit or miss, doesn't it?

vp911

It was a major problem for early build RLs. Since you won't be getting an early build 05' RL, I doubt you would have these problems.

dseag2

I actually traded my RL after 5 months. I ordered it in 10/04, it arrived in 11/04, and I traded it in 4/05.

Yes, the M45 is RWD. I don't really need AWD in Florida, although it is great in the rain. I liked the SH-AWD on the RL for the handling rather than safety aspect.

Yes, the V8 was absolutely worth the trade. I personally wouldn't have traded for the V6 in the M35 because IMO it gets a bit noisy when you push it. I don't really see much advantage in choosing the M35 over the RL. Both are great cars.

psteng19

I finally had a chance to spend time in both vehicles at the dealership and found the M to be the better vehicle, in both sport and luxury aspects.

The M just felt much more substantial and a tier above the RL.
It was most likely the roomier interior that led to the feeling of a more prestigious and luxurious feeling. The exterior styling was more bold as well.

The RL just didn't stand out as the flagship in the Acura dealership, especially the way it was positioned side by side next to the TL. It seemed like just another Acura in the showroom. The rather large wheel wells and wide spokes on the wheels made it look more like 15's than 17's.
If you inspect the interior carefully, you'll find some low quality plastics, namely the door handle/pull, center stack (2 columns by the HVAC/stereo controls), and behind the center armrest.

I know I'm nitpicking a lot but I'm just expressing some subjective thoughts on the RL. Honestly you can't go wrong with either vehicle, but I'd personally go for the M.

vp911

All that matters is that you like it. It is really important for anybody who is cross-shopping to be able to spend adequate time in both vehicles. I didn't even take a look at the M just because I had a bad experience with Infiniti (lemon law a year ago). I glanced at the GS300AWD but the low power and the lack of bargaining left me with the RL and I am generally pretty happy.

bluemule

Wouldn't one of the Lexus products be a more logical crossover or trade-up option from an Acura RL, perhaps not from the sportiness viewpoint, but certainly from the dealership experience and luxury standards? I've never been in a Lexus, but based upon input from folks I've known who have owned them and a look at Lexus downloaded brochures, that's the brand I would consider if trading the RL...maybe not.

I didn't see anything in my test drive of the Infinity that would have caused me to choose it over the RL, but that's perhaps only because of my previous good experience with Honda products going back a number of years. The Infinity is certainly a nice car, and admittedly all car preferences are highly subjective. As I've stated in a previous post, the only way I would really know whether I'd like one vehicle over another is to spend several months driving it daily.

I feel somewhat fortunate that I was able to get into an Acura RL when the price point became negotiable. Whether this will hold true for the new models is to be seen. 2005 may have been a fluke.

vp911

If I were going to trade my RL for another sedan within the same price range I would go for a lexus. No question.

sanderson3

I bought my new 2005 RL in August. Several times the keyless ignition would lock and not allow me to start car. I would get out of the car, lock it, reenter and it would usually start. However, last week, it locked up and I had to have it towed to the dealer. The keyless entry allows me to unlock the car, but won't start it. It did this with both the keyless entry remotes. The car was towed in the evening. The next day the service department from th dealership called and , you guessed it, it started right up for them. They have now had it five days and still can't find a problem. Anyone else heard of this? BTW, the tow truck driver even tried to start it before he loaded it on the truck. It also won't let us pull the cover off to use the key. Thanks for any information.

AcuraRLBlue

Some times the steering wheel is locked in position and at the same time the ignation switch is locked. One would have to move the steering wheel in both direction and turn the ignation switch at the same time. The cover should not have any mechanism to lock it in place as I remember it.

sanderson3

Thanks for the information. Not sure if we actually did that. Seems we tried everything. Getting the car back today....BTW, official word from Acura was that the remote maybe was not in the proper place, ie a purse, etc. Right!

vp911

Remote not in the proper place? I know other members have reported that if the remote is behind a cell phone that it may not work - but other than that, it usually works fine.

1HOT NSX

I second AcuraRLBlue on this one. Jiggle the wheel and start the car, that's all. There is nothing wrong with your ignition switch or the remote. It happened to me too!

Dr. E in TN

I think it more seems to lock but isn't locked. Just adjust the steering wheel and give the key a good turn and it will work. The first time this happened to me I almost called the wrecker towing service.

Motown2006RL

Hey! Nobody mentioned the cheezy contact paper looking wood trim! You guys slipping or what? Sat in the Infiniti again at the North American Auto show here in Detroit. It made me thankful I bought the RL. Not only are the materials superior, but the ergonomics are FAR superior and beautifully logical.

The Acura display had an RL chassis to demo the sophistication on the suspension and drivetrain. What a work of art!!! Carbon fiber driveshaft for goodness sake! I walked away with an ever greater appreciation for the engineering marvel this car really is.

Motown2006RL

I was of course referring to the "wood" trim in the Infiniti with the contact paper comment.

I stand by my humble opinion from previous threads: In general the M35 comes off as less substantial in design and execution when it comes to the interior, Nav, etc. etc. - not to mention the drivetrain. And the back end styling is a bit of a horror, isn't it? Overall, it just seems to lack the refinement and finesse of the RL.