Chuck091279

Wow Rexorg, that's scary. Sounds like an issue that belongs with a 1980s Datsun, not a 2004 $32,000 car! It's funny, the material they have used for the ceiling of the RL is so much softer than my TSX or the TL. Haha. I'm looking forward to driving this RL for a while.

TampaRLX-SH

Indeed. I am still very impressed with the TL. But I also, felt the TL fell short of what I expected from Acura and the price / market segment in terms of assembly issues, materials and quality feel. So another TL to RL owner here. I could not be happier with my decision. The RL met my expectations initially. So did the TL. But 18 months owning the TL, an I was ready for a change and felt let down by the TLs quality (it is good, but I expected better). Now16 months in the RL and not only has the RL impresion not waned, it continues to exceed my expectations. Each time I drive it, I find it better and better in feel, performance, materials and build. For me the low sales and rarity of the car enhance it further.

But you can only appreciate it far beyond initial impressions.

db22

I have driven 3 different new TL's as loaners for my RL and my opinion is that the TL should have Honda written on it.
The two cars are so far apart, I am suprised that this thread gets so much air time.
BTW - The touchscreen Nav in the TL is just another reason that I would never own a TL. I just bought a Honda Pilot with the touchscreen Nav and although it is kind of familiar, it is years behind the RL in operability.

JeffS

DB22, you are in luck then as the touch screen navis are gone with the current TSX and TL.

Chuck091279

Agreed db22. They are definitely world's apart.

BuzzAldrin

I just traded our 2004 TL for a new RL. Prior to the TL, I had owned both an 86 and 91 Legend. Although I liked the styling and technology of the TL, it didn't measure up to what I had come to expect of Acura in several areas:

I don't know whether to chalk it up to Japanese vs. U.S. design/assembly/parts suppliers, or some other factor(s), but I always got the impression with the TL that corners hd been cut in places they didn't think you would notice.

I drove an RL as a service loaner and was hooked. The difference in quality was immediately apparent. Of course, it is a more expensive car, but for someone who plans to drive it for 10-12 years, the extra money was a no-brainer.

Chuck091279

Well said Buzz. I don't even want to get into the dash fade on my old TL. Oh and when I took it in, the dealer said they'd "try their best" but weren't sure what they could do. For 32k, I say figure it out QUICK! So, I took in a service bulletin and showed it to them. Sure enough it was fixed that evening - only to recur a few months later. I gave up trying, I simply don't want to deal with that.

Rexorg

Had the tires replaced as a courtesy. However, they put the same tires on, but with improved construction, but were barely better. Later model TLs have the Michelins. The leather seats were prone to butt impression, and the dashboard fade was fixed with some leather conditioner.

krio

I can say that for the money you spend the TL is a wanderful bet.
I drive mine from 3 years and no problems. Nothing.
My Audi got problems after 6 months.

RL vs TL:

1) The ELS Panasonic sound system in the TL is better than the Bose on the RL.
2) The TL looks better than the RL.
3) The rear seats, cause of the low roof, in the RL are not so much roomier than the TL.
4) The TL is faster than the RL.
5) The TL Type-s costs 15.000$ less than the most expensive RL with the same engine.

And even the new big MDX is cheaper than the RL!

Than: Why the RL costs than 16.000$ (a Honda Civic ) more than the TL?

Let see:
1) The Sh AWD? Max. 4.000$. The RDX with the Sh Awd costs 34.000$ and 240 hp.
2) The engine? It's worth of 100$ more than the TL Type-S (286 vs 290 hp).
3) The overall quality? Max. 5000$ more, plus elctr. brake and turning head lights.

38.000$+9.000$= you get 47.000$.
The MSRP in Edmunds gives you the same results:
the REAL price for a car like the RL is max. 46-47.000$.
And for that reason, my friends, the TL is the best selling Acura 4 years in a row and the RL got the plastic medal as the worse...
Gloria to the TL!!!

AsianTL

Found this on line.
C/P:

Just read that review of the RL in Money magazine.
Why do so many reviewers have to compare the RL to the Accord?, and then downrate the RL because it shares some parts with the Accord, or the TL, both of which can be had for a LOT less. That reviewer even claims the TL is nearly as much car, but for $15,000 less, so he downrates it! By that logic, why not downrate the GS because an Avalon is a much better deal?!, or why pay so much for the G35 when you can just buy an Altima for a lot less! Or why stop there, why not compare the 530i to the TL, because the TL is nearly as much car for $25,000 less!
I own an RL, and I've driven the TL numerous time, and the new Accord. There is no comparison. I don't know or care how many parts the cars may share...you cannot drive all three cars and tell me there isn't a huge difference.
I almost purchased a TL. It is a very nice car, and a great value. If anything, it probably does share a lot of parts with the Accord, and I think even comes off the same assembly line in Ohio. That is not a bad thing. The Accord is one of the best selling and most reliable cars around. The RL is made in Japan, and imo is made with higher quality materials, and has a much more luxurious look and feel to it, especially the interior. It also "feels" more substantial. I've done a lot of research, and since the RL can be had in the real world for about $8,000 more than the TL, it is worth every penny. It is a LOT more car. Drive one, and look it over very carefully. They are two very different cars. That said, I agree the TL is a great car, and a great value as well.
Although I agree the exterior styling of the RL has a "family" resemblence to the Accord, I think comparing it to the Accord in just about any other way shows a lack of objectivity. Doesn't the GS resemble the new IS? How about the M35 and the G35? Or even the Maxima/Altima for that matter. What about the new BMW stying? Except for the different sizes, I have a hard time telling them apart. But I guess Acura still has dues to pay, before entering and competing in the realm of the BMW dominated world of reviewers.
I've driven most of the competitors offerings, and imo they are:
E350, M35, 530i, and the GS350. Haven't driven the 530i or the Audi, but I prefer the RL, especially since I got mine for just under $40,000. Anyway, to each his own. Different preferences make the world go round.

BTW, I traded in my 2004 TL for 07 RL. (Why????)

Chuck091279

The RL is made in Japan with 100% Japanese parts. The TL is made with 15% Japanese parts only. That plays into the cost of the TL. I bought the TL b/c it was made in Japan, and let me tell you, after buying the TL, I will look at that part of the sticker on a new car everytime I buy now. I'm not saying there can't be good American cars, just staying w/Japanese where my probabilities are higher!

cai06

The japanese market is probably one of the most demanding and picky, quality and technology-wise, that together with the sense of national pride and honor is the reason why japanese cars built for the JDM are held to much higher standards and many advanced models are not even sold overseas, the same apply for consumer electronics and many other things. The truth is foreign markets -specially the American- are seen as "less sophisticated" to say the less..

jhr3uva90

Also, take into account the RL's extensive use of aluminum alloy, which the TL does that use. That is part of the cost difference.

db22

A closer comparison discussion could be had between the new Accord and the TL. Performance, features and quality are all similar but the Accord costs less. By some peoples logic, the Accord has to be the better buy.
TL owners who wish to compare to the RL, only do so because they really do want the RL but cannot afford the extra 15K.

neuronbob

Unfortunately, the RL/Legend has been a poor seller in Japan too. It's too bad, it's an excellent car.

I agree with db22, those who don't feel the RL is worth paying more than for the TL haven't driven one or done their homework on what goes into the production of this car.

I give you a humble example: The headlight and taillight assemblies. The construction in simply those parts is highly complex--it's obvious that a lot of craftsmanship went into building those.

Ultimately, however, the market has already decided that more people agree with those who, like Consumer Reports, don't feel there is sufficient separation of RL from TL and feel the TL is the better deal. Many of us have taken advantage of that situation as we got into our RLs for lots less than MSRP.

Hopefully the new RL will change things.

krio

Sorry buddy to contradict you:
I own a TL, a Subaru Forester 2006 2.5T, and I only bought an Acura MDX 2008 with Entert. Package...
It costs 48.000$, 5.000 less than a RL... 300 hp and MORE features that the RL...
Why the RL is more expensive of the MDX than??
I have many friends with the RL, and, however, I prever my 2005 TL...

jhr3uva90

Have you ever driven an RL? There are many shortcuts that were made in the MDX. For example, the headrests are much harder in the MDX than the RL. Also, the MDX's interior uses a cheaper-looking grade of plastic than the RL. Also, the MDX does not have keyless ignition or keyless entry (or keyless anything) that the RL has.

The RL is a great car for the detail oriented. The problem is, detail oriented folks generally don't buy Acuras, gadget-oriented people do.

jhr3uva90

Regarding the Accord/TL analogy, that's actually quite apt. I believe it was one of Honda's VPs (Dick Whathisname) who said that the car most cross-shopped with the TL is the Honda Accord.

Chuck091279

I personally don't like the way the new MDX looks. Isn't it made in Canada? If so, it's in the same category as the TL in my opinion.

fstshrk

I bought an RL over the TL. Cost was not an issue. AWD was.
Overall, the RL feels like I am in a vault, very quiet and very luxurious but also understated.

I am glad you are happy with your TL, I think you made your points already.

TampaRLX-SH

The MDX is less expensive as it capitalizes on technology and engineering introduced with the lower volume RL. The RL also has much aluminum structure than the less sophisticated MDX structure. The RL was assembled in Japan with high Japanese parts content, another premium over the MDX.

So the MDX should cost less, even if it does mimic many of the RL's features.

And likewise for the TL. However, as with every car manufacturer, the flagship is a showcase of features, and when the features become accepted accepted, they can and do trickle down to sibling models. And with each generation of a model launch, they leapfrog the previous model.

Frankly, this is not an apples to apples comparision. Any one feature can be compared to another car does not capture the entire vehicle product and experience. Make thre purchase thagt suits you, but do not assume it applies to all drivers.

jhr3uva90

isn't it interesting how the RL and TL are not considered different enough, yet the Lexus GS and ES are? This is despite the fact that the GS and ES are the same size (I think ES is marginally larger).

johnnykuz

I bought a 3G TL new in feb '04. It was a great car although it did have some minor rattles. The fit, finish, and performance were all up to my expectations with few exceptions. I did have problems with the driver's seat leather seat bottom stretching but that was because I drove the car 1K miles a week so my butt was in it all of the time. I took it to the dealer just before the warranty expired and had some work done under warranty including replacement of that seat bottom. As far as the tires, yes, I only got 23K miles from the OEM Bridgestones but I replaced those with Falken Ziex ZE512's and they only lasted between 20-25K at most, so that is a function of the low profile and soft tread compounds used in performance tires. I sold that TL in Oct 2006 with 75K miles on it.

Now... I bought a used 2005 RL on eBay and drove it from West Palm Beach FL to Pittsburgh PA in 17-1/2 hrs this past October. To me, as much as I loved the TL, the RL is heads and shoulders above it. A completely different car. Long drives in the RL are so much more comfortable, it's just amazing. The car has long legs and loves nothing better than to cruise at 80MPH+ not just on the flat straight interstates of the SE but even on the hilly, windy interstates of the NE.

Overall, I find the RL to be suited to a different type of driver than the TL. I feel the performance is similar to the TL but in a package that is larger, smoother, quieter, and more refined. Having had both, my impression is that if you like the TL better, you prefer a car that is edgier and a little more raw in feel. The RL is much more refined, larger, more comfortable, definitely less skittish (can you say torque steer?) and just as fast.

So to me, the RL & TL appeal to different types of drivers. It just depends which type you are and what you look for in a car.

krio

absoloutely agree.
When 3 years ago I had to choose between the TL and the RL, I decided for the TL only by an "emotional", istinctive point ov view. When I sat in the RL I felt the level of luxury of this car.
If I hade to choose between Alfa Romeo 159 3.2 Quattro and the BMW 330xi, I would take the first, and not the second, even if I understand very well that the secoond it's FAR BETTER and for the halding-driving quality and for the buildings too: but the exterior of the Alfa is SOO beatiful...
Now I can see many Honda Legend (Acura RL) in my town, and the Honda dealers gave me the chance to take a drive in a Legend (the Legend has 295 hp. and, except the front grill, is 100% like the RL).
What can I say? The quality of fit and finish are far beyond my TL. And to drive iit in the snow... no chances to the TL.
But thinking now: it was a mistake buy the TL and not the RL, I feel no guilty...
I think it's worthy to wait until the RL 3G...
For a RL with the appeal of a Alfa, and the quality of Honda...

23109VC

I saw above, there were some comparisons between the new MDX and the RL.

First off, I own a 2007 MDX w/tech. I've had it almost a year now. I have been shopping for a new car and have test driven the TL Type S about 4 times now. I have also test driven the RL.

Without rehashing all the statements of others - I agree iwth most of it. the TL feels faster and edgier. the Type S definitely gives you a more sporty feel. If you drive the Type S hard n a twisty road, or push it on a onramp - it feels really grippy, and corners very flat. the ride is quite firm and somewhat bumpy...not bumpy in a bad way, but in a firm way - I liked it, as it felt sporty, but my wife thought it was too bumpy.

The RL is more plush. If you push the RL on a onramp, or through twisties, it feels more planted. the AWD gives it a more secure feel on the road. but it kinda feels less sporty... i bet the RL handles better, but the TL "Feels" more sporty and may feel like it handles better b/c of the weight differences, and the ride differences.

the RL actually corners better, but it's deceptive b/c of how smooth it is.

Anway, as toe the MDX... given that I own a new MDX and have test driven the RL, without coming up with specific examples, the moment I saw in the RL I immediately thought it felt more luxurious and higher end than my MDX. I think my MDX is very nice....but to me, the RL felt better.

I would classify the MDX more on a luxury level on par with the TL. it feels nice, it is very classy, but it doesn't have that "ultra" luxurious feel.

when I lookedat the exterior, interior, and then drove the RL - to me, it seemed a notch above the MDX in refinement and luxury. There are many similaries - like the nice gauge clusters, SH-AWD, etc... but the overall "feel" you just get...which is not one thing, but the sum of it's parts - the RL is a nicer car than an MDX and I would expect it to cost more.

that's just my honest opinion having driven an RL and owning an MDX. RL is a nicer car. not twice as nice... but it's nicer enough that if you drove them back to back, you'd notice the difference.

AsianTL

+1 well said.

I drove 07 MDX as a loaner when my RL was in service.
MDX is a very nice SUV for its class and it carries 7 passengers.

jhr3uva90

Regarding the TL's "sporty" feel, have these people driven a REAL sport sedan? Can a FWD Acura TL really compete with a 3-series BMW or even the new Infiniti G? Or do these people perceive torque steer as a sign of "sportiness?"

Rexorg

No, the TL-S cannot compete with a BMW 3. It is an apples and oranges thing. An ideal RWD sports sedan will have a 50/50 balance and some great summer tires. I have driven my daughter-in-laws 2006 325i and it is really nice and handles great, but I would still buy a TL-S. The BMW does not have the level of luxury the TL-S has, IMHO.

taitando

IMO, the sporty feel comes from the TL "feeling" lighter (coming from an RL). I got an '08 TL as a loaner when my RL was in for service. It was peppy, accelerated pretty fast, and seemed nimble, but the brakes felt grabby and the acceleration, though strong wasn't smooth. Some feel sportiness comes from speed, but I think the majority of it comes from handling. The TL just doesn't feel as good in corners (obvious torque steer) as the RL, let alone a 3 series or Infinit G.

TampaRLX-SH

I think the RL is extremely capable.

I drive more asserticely with my RL than I did with my TL.

The TL is tuned for to appeal to sporty sensations. It also was rougher riding so I tended to hold back in order to keep my fillings in my teeth.

The RL is tuned for smooth and refined performance, which may mask it's true capabilities. However, I toss it more, despite the weight as it has proved so capable and not punishing to drive.

Maybe I am getting old...but my definition of great handling is less about a punishing ride and extreme metrics and more about how capable the car is while maintaining comfort.

neuronbob

A LOT more assertively, in my case. The driving dynamics are incredible for a car this heavy.