Chas2

2006 or not, we can kill this thread ... He bought a GS300

037

car has frame damage. game over

Report Run Date: 2009-04-14 19:58:33.145 EDT

Vehicle: 2006 Lexus GS300 (JTHCH96S660015872)

Event Date Event Location Odometer Reading Data Source Event Detail
01/12/2006 CO Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
01/12/2006 Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
02/04/2006 CO Motor Vehicle Dept. EMISSION INSPECTION
02/28/2006 CO 11 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:10W326062)
03/16/2006 AURORA, CO Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/06/2007 AURORA, CO Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/05/2008 AURORA, CO Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/02/2009 TX 39,647 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
03/23/2009 TX 39,647 Auto Auction AUCTION ANNOUNCED AS FLEET/LEASE
03/26/2009 TX Auto Auction AUCTION ANNOUNCED AS FRAME DAMAGE

Chas2

caveat emptor, huh?

037

he should have checked or have us check. Wonder if buying a Lexus makes him an Acura hater now...and he will never return to this site to have his eyes opened...I wonder.

rmjse

Lol, thats a term I have not heard in a long time. Well said. I would guess that the buyer knew of (or at least ran) the carfax on the car. At least, I would think so.

037

not for the last price I saw on eBay he didn't.

vinodc

it doesn't make sense.....the carfax link on ebay ad, shows NO HISTORY of the accident, but
037 u found it to show it had. Somethings fishy here, clearly he got a frame damage car. I hope he knew this...

037

I got my info through autocheck.com

I hope he comes back here and sees this.

LuvMyTSX

I kept telling him to check BOTH Carfax and Auto Check, but he kept insisting Carfax listed all the cars as clean....

1stRL

spoken like a true 2006 owner who is jealous of the 2005's HP.

neuronbob

The lesson taken from the last few posts here is what I did when I bought my S2000 last year:

Check BOTH Carfax AND Autocheck for added peace of mind.

Poor guy. I hope he comes back and sees that he got fibbed to by another salesman.

OTOH, kudos to you guys for going the extra ten miles to help the OP out. if there was some kind of forum award to give you all, I'd do it. Proud to be on Acurazine.

Chas2

^^^
I agree. I think the amount of help available on this board is amazing.

037

I'll take whatever you want to give me :-)

psheu

i know this is off the topic a little bit, but isn't there a way to repair frame on frame damage cars? it is still kinda shady if they don't list this anyway.... especially on the ACE body structure, the frame is the foundation of everything....

TSX69

I am way too late to this party. I hope that the 2006 GS300 works out for him bc some point to that car as the beginning of the decline for Lexus. On the Lexus boards many members complain & even Lexus enthusiasts say that the quality is subpar to previous efforts

That vehicle also seemed to be the start of Toyota/Lexus recall era; it had 2 major ones like a fuel line leak.

It also started the decline in the eyes of Consumer Reports: they removed Toyota/Lexus from their automatically recommended list {leaving behind only Honda/Acura & Subaru} & even put the GS300 on their bad list. Like all 1st year models it had some problems but this had a bit more, especially for a Lexus which is supposed to be bulletproof.

TOMH-RL-TLS

Decline of lexus may be a little extreme
05 RL & 06 GS300 (05) release Both 1st year Both had their glitches
My 06 RL was close to trouble free & my 09 GS350AWD seems perfect so far
I guess the bugs are out I love both cars I would not knock the GS

037

this thread is about a guy buying a car with frame damage. Make a separate thread for Acura vs Lexus quality.

TOMH-RL-TLS

037 What ?
He was deciding between 2 cars an RL & GS Sorry Mr mod

037

Go back to first post, the guy was deciding between 05 and 06 RL.

N apology required, make a small donation and all is forgiven.

TOMH-RL-TLS

None given

1stRL

I wanted to thank the people here, I had autocheck, but its not as thorough as carfax. when I asked people here to check it out, it turned out to be ok, which was a green light for me. I couldn't be happier with my 05 RL

JuniorRap

Gentleman,

I'm a risk taking guy sometimes and I would like a little more info about frame damaged vehicles. Perhaps it is foolhardy and naive of me to run the risk of purchasing a frame damaged or even total loss vehicle (I've considered doing both), but no one has ever educated me on the finer points of why doing these things are a bad idea.

What real danger does frame damage present?

I would imagine that the structural integrity of a vehicle might be compromised if an accident were to occur at the site where the original frame damage took place and that's a serious issue. Is there something else I'm missing about the frame damage debate?

LuvMyTSX

The frame being compromised in a previous accident would be my top concern, because you could lose your life (or family/friend's life) over it.

Other concerns are trouble with the way the car drives, of course. It can cause a car to not handle properly, making it harder to avoid accidents.

Not to mention resale value. If you ever want to get rid of the car, obviously it will be worth less than one that doesn't have this damage.

Chas2

I have shared this story before, but I think it was back in 07. Apologies for the rewrite to those that know it.

Now this may just have been a marketing pitch, but if it was, it was more along the lines of education than hard sell marketing.

I attended a Tire Rack/Drivers Edge session, which was a free 1/2 day class room and track course for new drivers, aged 16-21 that is held around the country for new young drivers.

One module was on how to examine a used car. The module was put on by another of the sponsors CarMax (others sponsor was Bridgestone who replaced all the tires daily on the BMWs and Malibus they used). Other than give out a CarMax trinket, which was the extent of the overt marketing, the module was on checking over a car used car. Beautiful 7th Gen Honda Civic Coupe was on display. It did look pretty flawless. He opened the hood and pointed out a subtle difference in the dust around the edges of the headlight under the hood, nothing visible from the outside, and said that one unit being cleaner can mean that maybe that right headlight was replaced...not necessarily a bad thing, but just something to remember.

He then went to the trunk, and showed a couple of different seams, where adhesive was used. Both were good acceptable seams, but they were different, which was a clue. One was factory and the other was not. And he started removing the rubber weather strips, which apparently just press on and eventually revealed panels that should have been tied together, but were not because something was out of alignment, but this was covered up by the carpet in the trunk. He showed panels that were welded about every 12 inches versus the factory welds which were every inch or two inches between the A pillar and B pillar.

He demonstrated that the car had major damage on the right side. The repairs were fairly good, very acceptable in the body shop world, but there were some flaws, such as the welds, and certain other pieces that were out of alignment, but all hidden by the weather stripping or other pieces of rubber/carpet. The paint job was really however, so that the car looked great.

He then took a piece of printer paper, rolled it up in a tube, lengthwise, and showed that on end, it could take a fair amount of force without collapsing.

He then crumpled up the paper, smoothed it out, and rolled it up again lengthwise, and guess how easily it collapsed. He said this car would be fine in every day driving until it were in an accident. If the hit were on the left side, you might be OK, but if it were on the right side, and your best friend, girlfriend, brother, sister, mother father were sitting there, how well do you think the structure would survive, showing us the piece of rolled up but crumpled paper again?

The answer was, nobody knows until there is an accident, but why would you want to risk your life, or your family and friends lives if you had a choice of buying a used car that was frame damaged in an accident vs one that was not?

That was the gist of the presentation where he left you to just think about it, and not to be fooled by the pretty paint job.

I thought it was pretty effective.

JuniorRap

Effective indeed, Chas.

Thanks for the story! It really drove home the answer to my question. I have five younger siblings and they sometimes ride with me. I appreciate you taking the time to share. Not to be too dramatic, but you just might have saved the lives of my loved ones or even my life!! Thanks again!

LuvMyTSX

I agree, Chas' story is very effective. Just not worth it to buy a frame damaged car, IMO.

037

+1 for Chas

JuniorRap

037, would you mind checking out 2 vehicles for me on autocheck please?

here are the VINs

JH4KB16546C007132
&
JH4KB16536C004836

and here are the listings for each vehicle, respectively:
http://www.vehix.com/inventory/Vehic...Code%253D36117

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

037

first one off lease, possible lien/loan.

Report Run Date: 2009-04-18 19:40:12.850 EDT

Vehicle: 2006 Acura RL (JH4KB16546C007132)

Event Date Event Location Odometer Reading Data Source Event Detail
04/17/2006 AVONDALE ESTATES, GA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
06/28/2006 ROSWELL, GA 10 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:8061061795013)
10/23/2006 PRESTON, GA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
10/27/2006 GA State Agency FRONT IMPACT WITH A PARKED VEHICLE
SLIGHT DAMAGE REPORTED
02/06/2007 SOUTHEASTERN REGION 33,963 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
02/13/2007 SOUTHEASTERN REGION 33,963 Auto Auction AUCTION ANNOUNCED AS FLEET/LEASE
04/09/2007 GA 34,345 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
05/03/2007 PRESTON, GA 34,751 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:4924071238005)
10/26/2007 PRESTON, GA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/29/2008 SOUTHEASTERN REGION 50,535 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
07/17/2008 MONTGOMERY, AL 50,761 Dealer Record VEHICLE IN DEALER INVENTORY


2nd one off lease

Report Run Date: 2009-04-18 19:41:59.206 EDT

Vehicle: 2006 Acura RL (JH4KB16536C004836)

Event Date Event Location Odometer Reading Data Source Event Detail
04/25/2006 MISSOULA, MT Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/04/2006 MISSOULA, MT 25 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:G656166)
07/18/2007 MESA, AZ 17,660 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:370M007199030)
REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
02/25/2008 DESERT SOUTHWEST REGION 25,523 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
03/12/2008 DESERT SOUTHWEST REGION 25,525 Auto Auction AUCTION ANNOUNCED AS FLEET/LEASE
03/17/2008 AZ 28,501 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:74AK008077003)
REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
09/11/2008 AZ Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/02/2009 40,856 Dealer Service VEHICLE SERVICED
03/16/2009 DESERT SOUTHWEST REGION 40,890 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS DEALER VEHICLE
03/18/2009 DESERT SOUTHWEST REGION 40,890 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
03/25/2009 GLENDALE, AZ 40,891 Dealer Record VEHICLE IN DEALER INVENTORY


If you plan to buy, use CarFax as well.

krava

Had to look back. Not an acura hater. Remember I tried to get the RL but it wasn't in the best shape and NO ONE wanted to deal or get a good price and when they did they sold it out from under me. Before I bought the car I went to lexus and have them run a renolds and renolds check there and there is no History of the car being repaired for any body work. The only thing I don't like about the car is the tires that are on there are firestone firehawk GT's and there is a lot of road noise. The car has no rattles in it and it drives in a straight line, frame damge would have it pull to one side. I bought a 02 430 which was my best car and it was in a bad wreck but you would never tell it. The fact is that this car I am not upside down on so if I do sell it or trade it in, I will get a "good value". I perfer the doors on the RL to the gs though, they have nice leather on the doors and the doors on the GS is hard plastic, so far I do like the seat in the GS though, there is a lot more room in the RL and it is kind of open. I didn't get a good "test drive" with the RL I was hastled by the sales guy. I have no problems looking at a new RL when it comes out when it is time to get another. If you do have the autocheck results can you please email me a copy to conjetta@hotmail.com I would appreciate it.

krava

the guy that had the car left his phone numbers in the Nav system I will call the guy up and figure out what happend if anything happend since he has nothing to lose right now. But I did have lexus run a history on it. the only problems found was that both rear view mirrors had to be replaced and some motor in some part that controlled something.

krava

I see where that is in the autocheck, how does that get mentioned or how do they know it has frame damage? they test all the cars for that? if it had frame damage should some insurance company had to pay for it since frame damage means something serious happend to it? no matter what I have to contact whoever had the car from the numbers to find out what happend. I appriecate you for bringing that to my attention if it was done earlier I would have passed on the car even though I put money down on it. it still has factor warranty though, frame damge would negate this. also I can get lexus to give me a 100K warranty on it. I don't get how something serious could have happend to it and still can get a warrranty?

krava

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/19086976/detail.html

so nothing I can do to take this thing back? and stuck with it?

krava

when I went to lexus to pull up info they were talking it went to this dealership and then this dealership, according to car fax everything was done in CO. when the lexus dealership was pulling up several dealerships in TX. would a car from CO be taken all the way down to TX to be auctioned? also according to autocheck. the car went to auction on the 23rd why did it take 3 days to say frame damage on it? I think the answers are all with the pervious owner and can't get to them until tomorrow

037

If Lexus said the warranty still remains on the car, you should haggle them for extended warranty.

If they try to say warranty is void due to frame damage, the best bet would be to try and return the car.

Either way, best of luck.

JuniorRap

Thanks a million, 037. This is a fantastic community & I am extremely excited about joining the "family."

I'm leaning heavily toward the RL located in Glendale, AZ (see 2nd link in earlier post). In looking at the pictures, it seems that the vehicle has the radar up front (as well as the A-Spec body kit) and if I'm not mistaken, the radar comes with the tech package and the tech package includes the PAX tires which I do not want. Those tires don't look like PAX to me, but I'm no RL expert. Can you guys help me out?

037

2nd one would be the one to get. Seems like it has A-Spec or parts of the body kit on it, chrome rims, does seem to have CMBS (yes to tech package) and rides on Michelin Pilots.

As long as whoever spend the bux on it didn't abuse it. Definitely test drive it and see if you can get extended warranty.

krava

Before I bought the car i had lexus (seperate from where i bought the car from) run a check and asked about extended warranty and they said it cost $1800 for 3 year bumper to bumper and I have her card in my pocket. that is from the service dept. if it was damaged really bad they wouldn't have offered me a warranty on it especially looking up the history on it.

037

Well, maybe they are unaware of the damage. That shouldn't prevent you from trying to get a safe car.

Rhlieu

Personally, just for the peace of mind I would try to return the car (get lawyer if need be), like what Chas2 convey and the news article you posted, frame damage can defiantly weaken the structurer integrity of the entire car. Truthfully would you really want to risk your life/member of your family because of a slick deal you got on the car?