jhr3uva90

Some journalists have broken the information embargo for the MDX and have released information early. The MDX will have a 3.7L engine. Does anyone think that engine will be in the 2007 or 2008 RL?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't count on it making 2007, but it might be a nice step up for 2008 as a measure to stem complaints about lack of acceleration and would slot perfectly in prior to the full model change for the 2010 MY.

phile

I think it will happen. Something tells me that if Acura could squeeze 290hp out of the 3.5L in the RL, they could squeeze a little more than 300hp from a 3.7L.

jhr3uva90

I think they have to put the larger engine in the 2007 RL. The TL Type S is getting a 3.5 liter engine with about the same amount of horsepower. They'll have to give the RL a bigger engine or watch sales plummet even further.

Rob L

they should put in that engine and a 6-spd or higher transmission if they wish to calm the acceleration whores complaining about it not being quick enough.

jhr3uva90

A six-speed engine would be wonderful. I doubt if they would do that, though. I wonder if there is anything about the Global Mid-sized Platform that limits what type of transmissions the cars can have?

CL6

Automatic transmissions in general are a real shortcoming for Honda. The VW Jetta has a 6 speed automatic and it's what, $30,000 less? The Jetta also has a read sunshade, too! Mercedes is up to 7 or 8 speeds on theirs. Audi has a great new double clutch transmission. The RL should come with a 6 speed auto. It'll never get a manual I'm afraid.

jhr3uva90

I think the RL should have a manual as an option.

Don't Jettas and Mercedes also have poor reliability ratings? Do the transmissions have anything to do with that?

Also, do the customers really know or care about the number of gears in their automatic transmissions? If anything, seeing more numbers on the automatic make make some folks even more confused.

CL6

Jettas do have issues. Electrical mainly I think. I'm just using the Jetta (30 grad less) and the Mercedes (20 grand more) as examples of cars with more than 5 speed autos.

Do customers care? I don't know a scientific answer but a 6th gear would improve mileage and allow for closer spacing of the first 4 gears which might improve performance. Also, to be a luxury car I think you should have the extra gear.

jhr3uva90

I agree with you wholeheartedly. a 6-speed transmission could only help. I guess I lack faith in customers. I've seen people have a little bit of trouble changing gears in Acura as it is. Seeing numbers 1 through 6 might confuse them even more.

mwiles

The 2007 RL owner's manual is on the Honda web site at: https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/...7/JA0707OM.pdf

The Specifications page shows the same engine specs as the 06 model.

A quick review of the manual shows that the vehicle is about the same, except there is a "Compass System" (U.S. model without navigation system)"

There is also an Auxiliary Input jack for the audio system, located in the console compartment.

jhr3uva90

This brings me back to my earlier question: does Honda/Acura really want to sell the RL? Now that the TL Type S has the same engine, SH-AWD is the only major difference between the two cars. Damn shame.

Perziankabob

a car salesman at southcoast acura told me a couple of weeks ago that the RL was going to get a 3.7L engine.

maybe they're going to give the RL a type S?

phile

It seems like Honda spent a large portion of their R&D budget on the SH-AWD, thus no new transmission or engine. The 3.5L is essentially the same J series that's just been massaged to 290hp.

jhr3uva90

Yes, the 3.7 in the MDX is also the same J series. I think Honda needs to increase it's R&D budget!

CL6

This is some good stuff. The owner's manual shows the Compass system. Besides the Aux input I don't see anything new, either.

CL6

And I saw standard back-up camera as well. I was hoping for the Legend-style gear shift selector as in the RDX but maybe next year.

jhr3uva90

I think the Acura sedans will all have the same type of shifter, while the Acura SUV's will have another type of shifter.

mwiles

And I was also hoping for D-Paddle Shift Mode, like on the RDX and Honda Fit Sport. It would be nice to be able to drop down a gear in traffic without having to go to the full Sequential Sport Shift mode.

db22

I still don't understand how people think that the RL and the TL are "about the same". That statement usually comes from people who have a TL or from people who think that a Chevy Tahoe is the same as a Cadillac Blingmobile.

lflorack

You're right. There is little similarity RL<>TL. I had two TL's (03-S, 04) before I bought my RL (05). They are not the same or even all that similar.

mwiles

I know this is getting off topic, but contining thru the manual, it looks like Onstar is also gone in the 07.

JeffS

Exactly! Just look at all the cash they spend on the Honda Jet that could have gone into a 6 speed auto, V8 or RWD.

I bet the 3.7 will be installed for next year's MMC.

CL6

Thing is, I think the RL's development is Japan-based whereas the MDX is US-based. It is possible, but only if it fit into Honda's worldwide plan for the RL. I'd like to see the RL get the cylinder shutdown feature and a horsepower bump along with a 6 speed automatic.

jhr3uva90

Yes, but as far as I can tell, Acura doesn't have it's on engineers, only marketing and (in the near future) industrial design. Chances are, either AHM in the US or Honda Japan developed the 3.7 liter engine. Hopefully, Honda Japan will see fit to put it in the Legend/RL.

jcb-memphis

3.5 to 3.7 for 10 hp and about 10 ft-lbs....I would rather get rev matched shifting (software, so cheap), a sport shift point mode (software), and perhaps a 6spd tranny (although the 5spd is so smooth...and having just had a 6 MT on an Audi, the 5 on this honda is better). Increasing the redline 100-500rpm would be nice too.

Make the above something current owners can upgrade to at the dealer and you have more loyalty, etc. Call is "A-spec"-ware, if you will. I like my gas mileage now....3.7 might not help that.


JB

ciscoanimator

Acura needs to do something quick. The new Lexus GS350 will be making 10 more horses then the RL. I'm sure the other manufacturers V6's, will equal or pass the RLs soon. There's sure to be a BMW 535 sedan and the M35s not much off the RL today. In addition all the other manufactuers V8's are pumping 340-350 hp these days. It's always amazed me that Honda builds these great racing engines for Inday cars but don't ever set new standards in power and performance in their commercial vehicles. The NSX and S2000 are excellently balanced vehicles but can't keep up in performance with their competitors. I love my RL but wish it had a little more grunt, especially since I plan on keeping my 06 for another 6-7 years. Just my 2 cents.

rbpeirce

How fast does it have to be? I didn't get an RL to race it. I have an NSX for that. It has really good acceleration and handling for such a big car.

jhr3uva90

Unfortunately, some people base their car-buying decisions on engine displacement and horsepower numbers. That's why having a bigger engine and more horsepower are important.

Shotgun

Very well said! I agree wholeheartedly...After spending $50k I too want a little more "grunt". My greatest satisfaction thus far, is that I'm one of the few in the city that has an RL that looks good (Opulent Blue Pearl) and turns a few heads - gives me that degree of exclusivity others yearn for...

ciscoanimator

The underlying topic is how the RL can be more competitive in the $50K range. Having 2 engines works for BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Infiniti. Speed only tends to be one of the variables in most people's vehicle purchase but in a lot of times if everything else is the same more hp is going to push the scale to one of the sides. I love my RL and believe it has good power but good never equaled great. I guess that what we should expect from Honda/Acura is a value minded vehicle with luxury amenities and not a class leading luxury car in the $50K. If you want to be a luxury car leader you need to be competitive in your segment and offer choices for your consumer especially when your brand recognition isn’t as prestigious as the other offerings. When most V6s are putting out 260-300hp like the Nissan Altima I think I would like a little more engine for my money. Excluding the fact the RL’s engine quality and technology are uncomparable to lower end vehicles. If most people didn’t want to go faster then we would all still be driving 160hp V6s. Also being quick and fast are two different things. Adding more gears isn't necessary going to make a car quicker. Automakers tend to add more gears for gas mileage and higher top end even though most are electronically limited. It does take extra time for the transmission to change up gears. Honda and Acura make some of the best race cars on the track. By putting more of that technology in its vehicle line up it proves the "Race on Sunday buy on Monday" theory. My drill sergeants use to tell us, “soldiers be fast. “ When we replied how fast is fast, they would say fast enough that you're not the last one closet to the rounds being fired.”

dseag2

You're absolutely right. Almost every car in this class (5 series, E Class, M, GS) offer consumers the choice of a V-6 or V-8. Do people need the V-8? No. Does the RL need a V-8? Not necessarily. But it adds a "halo effect" to the product and moves the brand upmarket. It's as much psychological as anything else.

jhr3uva90

It would be a great idea if the RL had a V8 available, but don't know if it would substantially increase sales. I have some questions:

- How many cars in this class offer a V8 engine and AWD for $50K? What is the least expensive car to offer those features?

- How many cars in this class share their V8 engine with another car? For example, the BMW 5-Series shares its V8 with the 6-Series and the 7-Series. The Lexus GS shares a V8 with the SC, the LS, and the LX.

If Honda created a V8 for the RL, it would probably only go into the RL and possibly the MDX. The FWD TL would have a tremendous torque steer problem if one placed a V8 in it. A large engine would only be practical if it could be shared across cars. If Honda brought back the NSX (which I hear they are planning on doing), and offered a V8 in the new NSX, RL, and MDX, that would be more prudent from a manufacturing standpoint.

jhr3uva90

One more question: V8 versions of the Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, etc. make up what percentage of overall sales?

phile

The magic number that I see Honda point out is 15% when they offer a rationale for why the RL won't have a V8.

jhr3uva90

I think I've seen the 15% number also. I think a V8 for the RL would be a great idea, as long as that engine can be shared with other models like it is with other car manufacturers.

jcb-memphis

No V8 is really needed. Just use a turbocharger or supercharger....the RDX suggests that the former woudl be something Acura could do. I think that would be wiser and perhaps move fun for all...better mileage, and tuners would love it.

Look to the BMW 335i/is/xi....

If we are 290hp now, that would take things to at least 360-420hp.


JB

GoHawks

It's not needed for performance, but it's needed for the halo effect mentioned by another poster. It's a perception thing.. Even though most may not buy the V8, they have the option if they want it.

jhr3uva90

If Acura really wants to do the "perception thing," they'll release a full-sized car with a standard V8 engine like the Lexus LS 430 and every other luxury brand. Then they could share the V8 with the RL. It's interesting how, after 20 years of the Acura brand, Honda never did this. Another side effect of a full-sized flagship is that Forbes magazine will stop trying to compare the RL to the S-Class and then bitching that the RL is too small.

TSX69

Altho I can see the turbo happening before an 8 cylinder - I hope that they fix that whine/hiss noise that comes every time you step on the pedal. That is the main thing I do not like about the RDX. For a luxury sedan, this has got to be a no-no; the RL does not have to be Lexus quiet but that noise is loud & annoying (to me @ least). If they can remedy turbo lag, hopefully Honda can do something about that noise, too.