07 Rl??
06-07-2006, 09:29 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
I also think that the sole purpose of the RL seems to be to fill excess production capacity of the Honda Legend in Japan, like 2veloce said.
However, I must also agree with what mrdeeno has been saying for months: in order to sell to the luxury market, you must offer the customer some options. Having few options works for the TL because it helps the car stay relatively inexpensive, which makes it very competitive in the NEAR-LUXURY segment. However, in the LUXURY segment (starting at $40K), people are going to demand the ability to chose. For example, why doesn't the RL have an optional manual transmission? That's a big oversight, in my opinion. They should also offer more than one engine. Of course, too many options becomes confusing, but too few is too limiting.
However, I must also agree with what mrdeeno has been saying for months: in order to sell to the luxury market, you must offer the customer some options. Having few options works for the TL because it helps the car stay relatively inexpensive, which makes it very competitive in the NEAR-LUXURY segment. However, in the LUXURY segment (starting at $40K), people are going to demand the ability to chose. For example, why doesn't the RL have an optional manual transmission? That's a big oversight, in my opinion. They should also offer more than one engine. Of course, too many options becomes confusing, but too few is too limiting.
06-07-2006, 11:19 AM
#42
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I will agree that the RL is not promoted anymore. Nobody knows about this car. This is obviously a huge problem. Most salespeople don't know the RL very well. Good luck having them explain how this car works. And, as a salesperson, there is no incentive from Acura to sell the RL. I still try and sell this car, but it's a timesink as far as explaining/delivering the vehicle.
I also agree that not being able to choose the options you want is a big deal. People want their car 'just so' and having a one size fits all car is too much like the TSX and the TL.
I just don't think the RL was designed specifically for the American market. It seems too 'Japanese' in its presentation. I still like the RL... but it seems too intellectual for most people and especially if it's not being presented correctly, which I'm sure it isn't.
I also agree that not being able to choose the options you want is a big deal. People want their car 'just so' and having a one size fits all car is too much like the TSX and the TL.
I just don't think the RL was designed specifically for the American market. It seems too 'Japanese' in its presentation. I still like the RL... but it seems too intellectual for most people and especially if it's not being presented correctly, which I'm sure it isn't.
06-07-2006, 11:37 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by CL6
I just don't think the RL was designed specifically for the American market. It seems too 'Japanese' in its presentation. I still like the RL... but it seems too intellectual for most people and especially if it's not being presented correctly, which I'm sure it isn't.
In my opinion, the RL is probably the most "Japanese" car in it's class, from a cultural and aesthetic standpoint. Nissan has always has a European edge, and Renault's influence is clearly seen in the Infinitis. Toyota created Lexus with the U.S. in mind, and their cars reflect our American general attitude towards luxury cars, which is why Lexuses are basically Japanese Cadillacs. The Germans basically do their thing, and either Americans buy the cars or they don't. That seems to be their attitude. But the RL (Legend) is the most Japanese car of the bunch.
However, if Acura wants to go upscale with ANY model, they're going to have to make some changes. One major change involves the sales people: Acura needs to figure out a way to give hardworking, individual, Acura sales people an incentive to sell more expensive models. If they don't, the future NSX (or whatever they call it) and any new Acuras with a base price of $45K and up will have disappointing sales.
06-07-2006, 09:21 PM
#44
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The RL seems to be minimalistic and understated as the Japanese like. The NSX really is the same way. In being so barren they are actually quite fulfilling as long as you're wanting that type of thing. I take the RL's MID for example. Every time you make a choice it kicks you back to the main menu. The Japanese may think this works for them (they made the TSX in a similar way) but the TL just goes right to the next selection. Maybe the TL is a dumbed down version for Americans. I have had many discussions with Acura people about this MID and have been told 'You must adapt to it because the Japanese think this is the right system.'
Toyota/Lexus are like Caddys. They have that soft boat-like ride. While I know that Honda/Acura like being Japanese they need to ease up. The US-based Acura design center is a good start. But I think the RL might just have to limp along for another 4 years. It was almost as tough selling the previous RL as this one!
It is a good car at its core but too disimilar from its competition. Good points, all.
Toyota/Lexus are like Caddys. They have that soft boat-like ride. While I know that Honda/Acura like being Japanese they need to ease up. The US-based Acura design center is a good start. But I think the RL might just have to limp along for another 4 years. It was almost as tough selling the previous RL as this one!
It is a good car at its core but too disimilar from its competition. Good points, all.
06-08-2006, 06:29 AM
#45
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WhatEver!
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
06-08-2006, 07:05 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by JMikeF
WhatEver!
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
Those opting for an RL have already made a statement that they're not *sheeple,* and have different expectations from their automobile...like performance, reliability and competence.
If Acura wants to keep me as a customer, they'd better pay attention to improving reliability and do something about the woeful service experience. Additionally, if Honda/Acura expects me to buy another one, they'd better continue to introduce safety and convenience features into the RL.
06-08-2006, 09:53 AM
#47
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by JMikeF
WhatEver!
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
I've driven various SUVs over the past 25 years, and the RL is a revelation for me in terms of comfort and most of all handling. I've have my share of V8s and it's not a requirement for me, as long as the engine provides the performance needed for the vehicle its in. The RL has performance in spades!
I think the RL front end is a very aggressive look. In the $50,000 range, the seats beat MB/BMW for comfort and support. The NAV system is world class, and the Bose system is respectable. The Lexus looks like a boat, and the Infinity interior can't touch the RL.
Does the world need another $80,000 V8 land yacht. Honda thinks not. A good decision in my book.
I agree with you, and disagree to some extent on many of CL6's points. Most people aren't basing their decisions to buy a $50K luxury automobile on the UI for the MID (I know that was more of an example). I do agree that Acura doesn't do enough to promote their vehicles. The TL doesn't sell well because of marketing. It offers a good mix of value and performance over the competitors. In a sense, it sells itself. Acura has always had an identity crisis.
Remember or "Precision crafted performance" or "Somethings are worth the price"? Well what is it? Luxury? Performance? or both?
As I've stated, the RL is my third Acura. I keep going back because the cars offer a nice balance of performance and luxury with above average reliability (TL tranny issues aside) at a price that beats most of the competitors. As some have stated, Lexus has become what Cadillac was a couple of decades ago. Back then, when you bought a Caddy, it sent a statement that you've "arrived". You've reached a level of success that has given you the means to purchase such a car. Look at most of the cars in the Toyota/Lexus line-up. There's very few cars that are slanted more towards the performance end of the dial.
Corolla? Camry? Avalon? The IS is definitely slanted more towards the performance side, but it's also in the price range of the TL. Different demographic. The GS softens things a bit unless you move into the GS430. The LS? Don't get me wrong, Toyota makes solid cars and I'm a customer as I've owned a Camry and I'm on my second Land Cruiser. Nobody screws a car together better than Toyota.
Honda has always leaned a little more towards the prformance end of the spectrum. My neighbor just bought his son a Civic EX Coupe. I am seriously impressed with that car. I think it's a gorgeous car when you consider other's in it's class and it performs pretty well. The Accords have always leaned a little more towards the performance side compared to the Camry. Then you have the S2000. The TSX is a fun car, and no one can dispute the perfromance of the TL. I do agree though that Honda is hurt by it's insistance to deviate from the FWD platform, but my opinion that 95% of the population hardly ever drive their cars to the limits where they would notice the benefits of a RWD layout. Wasn't the RL the first car that offered an integrated navigation system in an automobile ('96 RL)? It's marketing and Honda sucks at it.
and the biggest issue is that the salespeople just don't understand their product. I think it's shameful when customers walk into a showroom and know more about the product than the person who is trying to sell it to them.
I was getting an oil change on my Land Cruiser and wandered over to take a look at the new FJ Cruiser. A young salesman was showing the truck to a middle-aged couple and I hear this comment.... "Yeah and it has three wiper blades for the front windshield which is really awesome".
Come on!
Now I haven't experienced quite that at an Acura dealer, but it's obvious that most people in that showroom would be challenged to truly explain the benefits of SH-AWD over the system in the GS. THAT'S THE SORT OF STUFF THAT DIFFERENTIATES THE RL OVER THE GS!!!!!!!
Maybe it's the compensation structure, maybe it's the training... I don't know, but Acura puts some leading edge high tech stuff in their cars and the people selling these cars can't even explain it, while like lemmings, people will easily plunk down cash for anything with a Lexus or BMW logo on it.
06-08-2006, 01:52 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
I personally do not want to see the RL in a music video. Have you noticed that almost every car in on of those videos is the hot car to steal??
I agree that the Rl needs more advertisment. I have test drive evey car in it class and own an 05 TL, and IMO was clearly the better value. When the next gen. comes out I will trade again. I am not sure a lower price is the answer.
The car might then be preceived as cheap. High end cars to me, is all mostley about image. That is where the RL is failling.
I agree that the Rl needs more advertisment. I have test drive evey car in it class and own an 05 TL, and IMO was clearly the better value. When the next gen. comes out I will trade again. I am not sure a lower price is the answer.
The car might then be preceived as cheap. High end cars to me, is all mostley about image. That is where the RL is failling.
06-08-2006, 04:36 PM
#49
AcurAdmirer
Those of us on the other side of the ownership line have a different view, even though some of us are considering the RL.
Its shortcomings to me are -
1. It isn't distinctive enough to merit the cost.
2. It is self-limited by having a transverse V6 engine layout.
3. It doesn't have the performance I expect of cars in this class.
4. It's overpriced.
#1 has already been beaten to death so I won't add any more fuel to that fire.
#2 is a basic problem, and it looks like the Accord architecture was just "beefed up" to handle a little more hp by introducing the revolutionary SH-AWD. The main benefit to that is to mitigate FWD torque steer and permit a little better handling in the wet. Yes, I know it's supposed to make the car handle like some kind of sports car, but in reality it doesn't do much unless you're on the edge of out-of-control, and most modern stability control systems can handle that job without the weight and complexity of SH-AWD.
#3 is an issue for me, since I already own an Infiniti M45 and am used to power for freeway entrances, highway passing, etc. The RL doesn't even do 0-60 as fast as my '04 Nissan Maxima (RL- 6.3 sec.; Maxima - 6.1 sec.), and the Maxima is a $33,000 car. The RL is over a whole second slower to 60 than my M45, while being in the same general price range.
#4 has also been talked to death. But I reiterate the RL would be a good buy if it listed in the low-mid $40k range.
Better yet, give me an RL stripped of the SH-AWD and with the 300hp originally promised. The extra few hp, lighter weight and eliminated parasitic losses of the AWD might make it perform in the mid-5's to 60mph, and that would make it much more attractive to me.
As it is now, I'm considering it only because of the deep, deep discounts being offered, and even then only on a 24-month lease!
Its shortcomings to me are -
1. It isn't distinctive enough to merit the cost.
2. It is self-limited by having a transverse V6 engine layout.
3. It doesn't have the performance I expect of cars in this class.
4. It's overpriced.
#1 has already been beaten to death so I won't add any more fuel to that fire.
#2 is a basic problem, and it looks like the Accord architecture was just "beefed up" to handle a little more hp by introducing the revolutionary SH-AWD. The main benefit to that is to mitigate FWD torque steer and permit a little better handling in the wet. Yes, I know it's supposed to make the car handle like some kind of sports car, but in reality it doesn't do much unless you're on the edge of out-of-control, and most modern stability control systems can handle that job without the weight and complexity of SH-AWD.
#3 is an issue for me, since I already own an Infiniti M45 and am used to power for freeway entrances, highway passing, etc. The RL doesn't even do 0-60 as fast as my '04 Nissan Maxima (RL- 6.3 sec.; Maxima - 6.1 sec.), and the Maxima is a $33,000 car. The RL is over a whole second slower to 60 than my M45, while being in the same general price range.
#4 has also been talked to death. But I reiterate the RL would be a good buy if it listed in the low-mid $40k range.
Better yet, give me an RL stripped of the SH-AWD and with the 300hp originally promised. The extra few hp, lighter weight and eliminated parasitic losses of the AWD might make it perform in the mid-5's to 60mph, and that would make it much more attractive to me.
As it is now, I'm considering it only because of the deep, deep discounts being offered, and even then only on a 24-month lease!
06-08-2006, 05:04 PM
#50
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
Those of us on the other side of the ownership line have a different view, even though some of us are considering the RL.
Its shortcomings to me are -
1. It isn't distinctive enough to merit the cost.
2. It is self-limited by having a transverse V6 engine layout.
3. It doesn't have the performance I expect of cars in this class.
4. It's overpriced.
#1 has already been beaten to death so I won't add any more fuel to that fire.
#2 is a basic problem, and it looks like the Accord architecture was just "beefed up" to handle a little more hp by introducing the revolutionary SH-AWD. The main benefit to that is to mitigate FWD torque steer and permit a little better handling in the wet. Yes, I know it's supposed to make the car handle like some kind of sports car, but in reality it doesn't do much unless you're on the edge of out-of-control, and most modern stability control systems can handle that job without the weight and complexity of SH-AWD.
#3 is an issue for me, since I already own an Infiniti M45 and am used to power for freeway entrances, highway passing, etc. The RL doesn't even do 0-60 as fast as my '04 Nissan Maxima (RL- 6.3 sec.; Maxima - 6.1 sec.), and the Maxima is a $33,000 car. The RL is over a whole second slower to 60 than my M45, while being in the same general price range.
#4 has also been talked to death. But I reiterate the RL would be a good buy if it listed in the low-mid $40k range.
Better yet, give me an RL stripped of the SH-AWD and with the 300hp originally promised. The extra few hp, lighter weight and eliminated parasitic losses of the AWD might make it perform in the mid-5's to 60mph, and that would make it much more attractive to me.
As it is now, I'm considering it only because of the deep, deep discounts being offered, and even then only on a 24-month lease!
Its shortcomings to me are -
1. It isn't distinctive enough to merit the cost.
2. It is self-limited by having a transverse V6 engine layout.
3. It doesn't have the performance I expect of cars in this class.
4. It's overpriced.
#1 has already been beaten to death so I won't add any more fuel to that fire.
#2 is a basic problem, and it looks like the Accord architecture was just "beefed up" to handle a little more hp by introducing the revolutionary SH-AWD. The main benefit to that is to mitigate FWD torque steer and permit a little better handling in the wet. Yes, I know it's supposed to make the car handle like some kind of sports car, but in reality it doesn't do much unless you're on the edge of out-of-control, and most modern stability control systems can handle that job without the weight and complexity of SH-AWD.
#3 is an issue for me, since I already own an Infiniti M45 and am used to power for freeway entrances, highway passing, etc. The RL doesn't even do 0-60 as fast as my '04 Nissan Maxima (RL- 6.3 sec.; Maxima - 6.1 sec.), and the Maxima is a $33,000 car. The RL is over a whole second slower to 60 than my M45, while being in the same general price range.
#4 has also been talked to death. But I reiterate the RL would be a good buy if it listed in the low-mid $40k range.
Better yet, give me an RL stripped of the SH-AWD and with the 300hp originally promised. The extra few hp, lighter weight and eliminated parasitic losses of the AWD might make it perform in the mid-5's to 60mph, and that would make it much more attractive to me.
As it is now, I'm considering it only because of the deep, deep discounts being offered, and even then only on a 24-month lease!
#1. What do you mean by "distinctive"? Body style? If so, what makes the "M" more distinctive or any other car for that matter? Styling is subjective and as for me personally I don't like the body style of the M. Not meant to be an attack. The M has established itself as a credible luxury performance car. I'm just speaking to your comment on "Distinctive".
#2. Point taken and I see where your coming from, but the same could be said of the Lexus GS300 AWD. Not the transverse mounted enging, but more specifically the function of the AWD. Same with the M35x.
#3 The MSRP of the M45 is considerably more than the RL. To a point where you can almost argue that you're comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison would be between an M45 and a GS430.
#4 True, but again, the same could be said of the GS300 AWD and the M35x. Why is it a criticism directed specifically at the RL?
06-08-2006, 06:28 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by GoHawks
06-08-2006, 07:50 PM
#53
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by GoHawks
#1. What do you mean by "distinctive"? Body style? If so, what makes the "M" more distinctive or any other car for that matter? Styling is subjective and as for me personally I don't like the body style of the M. Not meant to be an attack. The M has established itself as a credible luxury performance car. I'm just speaking to your comment on "Distinctive".
#2. Point taken and I see where your coming from, but the same could be said of the Lexus GS300 AWD. Not the transverse mounted enging, but more specifically the function of the AWD. Same with the M35x.
#3 The MSRP of the M45 is considerably more than the RL. To a point where you can almost argue that you're comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison would be between an M45 and a GS430.
#4 True, but again, the same could be said of the GS300 AWD and the M35x. Why is it a criticism directed specifically at the RL?
#2. Point taken and I see where your coming from, but the same could be said of the Lexus GS300 AWD. Not the transverse mounted enging, but more specifically the function of the AWD. Same with the M35x.
#3 The MSRP of the M45 is considerably more than the RL. To a point where you can almost argue that you're comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison would be between an M45 and a GS430.
#4 True, but again, the same could be said of the GS300 AWD and the M35x. Why is it a criticism directed specifically at the RL?
You've made my point with the two examples you've cited. These are OPTIONAL AWD versions of the cars you mentioned. The RL comes only one way, whereas you can get the others in either flavor. And, BTW, the performance suffers on both with AWD, but some people want it.
I disagree. The RL lists at about $50,000. My M45 listed at $53,200. Not enough to call it apples and oranges at all!
I guess the price thing strikes me as more pertinent to the RL because of the sum of the issues I cited. Give it a more distinct appearance and more power and performance, and it would more easily command its price. As it is, though, other cars at this price point eat its lunch in more ways than one.
I don't mean this to sound trollish ... the RL is a nice car, but I'm just getting disappointed the more I look.
06-08-2006, 09:17 PM
#54
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I still feel that "distinctive" is somewhat subjective. For me, the "M" doesn't turn my head. Now the GS is another story, but that's why we all don't drive the same cars. 
I do agree, and I've said it in this forum in my brief time as well that having the choice of having V8 tends to diffuse the criticism. Even if the bulk of the sales may be with the smaller engine.
Point taken on the price difference, but I thought that the M45 listed for quite a bit more "comparably equipped". If the price is that close, then I'll concede that point. Now I got my RL for $43500, which is a tremendous deal, but I guess that goes to your point as well.
I do agree, and I've said it in this forum in my brief time as well that having the choice of having V8 tends to diffuse the criticism. Even if the bulk of the sales may be with the smaller engine.
Point taken on the price difference, but I thought that the M45 listed for quite a bit more "comparably equipped". If the price is that close, then I'll concede that point. Now I got my RL for $43500, which is a tremendous deal, but I guess that goes to your point as well.
06-08-2006, 09:21 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
Well, "distinctive" generally means something that stands out from the others. As has been discussed here several times, the RL - to most eyes - just looks too much like an Accord, and not enough like its own unique style. In that regard, it lacks the visual "punch'" people like to see when they spend sizeable dollars for a car. This is different from "taste", which I agree is subjective. Most people, I think, would say the M has a more "stand out" design (whether they like it or not).
You've made my point with the two examples you've cited. These are OPTIONAL AWD versions of the cars you mentioned. The RL comes only one way, whereas you can get the others in either flavor. And, BTW, the performance suffers on both with AWD, but some people want it.
I disagree. The RL lists at about $50,000. My M45 listed at $53,200. Not enough to call it apples and oranges at all!
I guess the price thing strikes me as more pertinent to the RL because of the sum of the issues I cited. Give it a more distinct appearance and more power and performance, and it would more easily command its price. As it is, though, other cars at this price point eat its lunch in more ways than one.
I don't mean this to sound trollish ... the RL is a nice car, but I'm just getting disappointed the more I look.
You've made my point with the two examples you've cited. These are OPTIONAL AWD versions of the cars you mentioned. The RL comes only one way, whereas you can get the others in either flavor. And, BTW, the performance suffers on both with AWD, but some people want it.
I disagree. The RL lists at about $50,000. My M45 listed at $53,200. Not enough to call it apples and oranges at all!
I guess the price thing strikes me as more pertinent to the RL because of the sum of the issues I cited. Give it a more distinct appearance and more power and performance, and it would more easily command its price. As it is, though, other cars at this price point eat its lunch in more ways than one.
I don't mean this to sound trollish ... the RL is a nice car, but I'm just getting disappointed the more I look.
You may not mean to sound trollish but that's exactly what you sound like. Do make sure to post back once you've purchased your Infiniti or Lexus or BMW or MB to let everyone know how happy you are with the great decision you made. In the midst of your self-righteous litany of disappointment with the RL it probably never occurred to you that the owners here looked at the exact same competitor's vehicles and arrived at exactly the opposite conclusion that you did.
06-08-2006, 09:46 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by dwboston
"Most" people I know who own the car don't think it looks just like an Accord. I've had several people ask me what make of car it is b/c they don't think it looks familiar.
BTW, When my Rl and '94 Accord are parked side by side, I see a distinct family lineage, and am quite pleased by this.
06-08-2006, 09:54 PM
#57
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Someone the other day asked me how I liked my Lexus.
That said, of course there's a family lineage. Also look at the new ES. At quick glance the rear looks just like a Camry. I have no issues with the similarities.
That said, of course there's a family lineage. Also look at the new ES. At quick glance the rear looks just like a Camry. I have no issues with the similarities.
06-08-2006, 09:59 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by bluemule
I had an interesting experience a couple of weeks ago. I was slowing down to make a turn, and a shiny black car sailed by. I glanced at it and thought, "Wow, what kind of car is that!" Of course, it was a black RL. Heh...that was a bit of an out of body experience, to say the least. I really haven't seen that many RL's in the year I've owned mine.
BTW, When my Rl and '94 Accord are parked side by side, I see a distinct family lineage, and am quite pleased by this.
BTW, When my Rl and '94 Accord are parked side by side, I see a distinct family lineage, and am quite pleased by this.
I don't really care if Honda's cars all kind of resemble one another. Especially since I love driving Hondas. Don't all of the BMW's kind of look alike? All makes share design elements. It's branding.
06-09-2006, 06:19 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by dwboston
Respectfully, then don't buy it and stop complaining about everything the RL is lacking, if you're so disappointed. "Most" people I know who own the car don't think it looks just like an Accord. I've had several people ask me what make of car it is b/c they don't think it looks familiar. I won't rehash the Lexus and Infiniti models that look like their mass-label conterparts, because it's pointless. It's subjective. Either you like it or you don't, and there are obviously a lot of things about the RL that you don't like. I don't need the umpteenth rehashing of the V6 vs. V8 "issue", or the AWD vs. RWD "issue." It's an owner/enthusiast forum - you obviously don't own the car and you're not all that enthused about it. I love my RL and enjoy driving it.
You may not mean to sound trollish but that's exactly what you sound like. Do make sure to post back once you've purchased your Infiniti or Lexus or BMW or MB to let everyone know how happy you are with the great decision you made. In the midst of your self-righteous litany of disappointment with the RL it probably never occurred to you that the owners here looked at the exact same competitor's vehicles and arrived at exactly the opposite conclusion that you did.
You may not mean to sound trollish but that's exactly what you sound like. Do make sure to post back once you've purchased your Infiniti or Lexus or BMW or MB to let everyone know how happy you are with the great decision you made. In the midst of your self-righteous litany of disappointment with the RL it probably never occurred to you that the owners here looked at the exact same competitor's vehicles and arrived at exactly the opposite conclusion that you did.
06-09-2006, 01:08 PM
#60
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by dwboston
Respectfully, then don't buy it and stop complaining about everything the RL is lacking, if you're so disappointed. "Most" people I know who own the car don't think it looks just like an Accord. I've had several people ask me what make of car it is b/c they don't think it looks familiar. I won't rehash the Lexus and Infiniti models that look like their mass-label conterparts, because it's pointless. It's subjective. Either you like it or you don't, and there are obviously a lot of things about the RL that you don't like. I don't need the umpteenth rehashing of the V6 vs. V8 "issue", or the AWD vs. RWD "issue." It's an owner/enthusiast forum - you obviously don't own the car and you're not all that enthused about it. I love my RL and enjoy driving it.
You may not mean to sound trollish but that's exactly what you sound like. Do make sure to post back once you've purchased your Infiniti or Lexus or BMW or MB to let everyone know how happy you are with the great decision you made. In the midst of your self-righteous litany of disappointment with the RL it probably never occurred to you that the owners here looked at the exact same competitor's vehicles and arrived at exactly the opposite conclusion that you did.
You may not mean to sound trollish but that's exactly what you sound like. Do make sure to post back once you've purchased your Infiniti or Lexus or BMW or MB to let everyone know how happy you are with the great decision you made. In the midst of your self-righteous litany of disappointment with the RL it probably never occurred to you that the owners here looked at the exact same competitor's vehicles and arrived at exactly the opposite conclusion that you did.
And I'll also point out that any discussion that doesn't allow for a difference in opinion is no longer a discussion ... it's a pep rally. So why can't we tolerate a difference or opinion here? It may actually help in the long run.
What I know you don't know is that I have followed the current RL from its first news releases. That little line drawing they released early in the game - along with the promised 300hp, the electronic goodies, the styling, etc., got me really stoked. It looked so snarky and catlike, and I loved it.
But when it actually appeared for 2005, it was softened in appearance, and I soon learned it was also kinda porky, at over 4,000 lbs. And the price point was a bit higher than I had hoped. Okay, I still liked it pretty well, but I wanted to see some road test reports. Those tests were just "okay" from my point of view, especially in the performance category. I had hoped 300hp would translate to some low-5's in the 0-60mph category. No soap. in fact, it couldn't even get near the 6 sec. barrier. Shucks.
Okay, it's still a very nice car, with lots of cool trinkets, but I'm a performance junkie, so I didn't know if I could deal with a car that didn't perform with the competition ... especially at $50,000. So I eventually ended up with an Infiniti M45 as my primary car.
Then the price started coming down on the RL due to (apprently) the disappointment of others like myself. So I think to myself maybe it would still work for me as a second car, since my current second car is about to come off lease. Although it's a bit more than I'd like to spend for my daily driver, I've kept looking. But now I'm about at the point where the disappointment will move me to other options ... maybe the '07 G35 or something in that category.
Hence my less-than-totally-complementary posts here. I'm not here to slam the car or its owners ... I'm just living out my frustration and growing disappointment, I guess. And my comments may help others to decide either to get the car or not to. Or maybe even help Acura make changes to it to make it more attractive to people like me. Who knows?
But I'm not trolling, and I respect you who made the decision to get an RL. I would just ask that you also respect my (hopefully constructive) criticism in the vein in which it's offered.
06-09-2006, 02:29 PM
#61
My only car is a Bus
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Before this discussion gets any worse just look at the facts:
~ Sales of the 2006 Acura RL are down 31.8% over last year, the biggest decline for any car in Acura's line-up save for the NSX which was discontinued.
The RL has been out for 2 years. I'm not saying the RL is a good car or a bad car. I'm just saying people are not overly interested in it. Whether this means RL owners are smarter than the crowd or not is up to you.
~ Sales of the 2006 Acura RL are down 31.8% over last year, the biggest decline for any car in Acura's line-up save for the NSX which was discontinued.
The RL has been out for 2 years. I'm not saying the RL is a good car or a bad car. I'm just saying people are not overly interested in it. Whether this means RL owners are smarter than the crowd or not is up to you.
06-09-2006, 03:34 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
I don't think RL owners are "smarter" than the crowd, just "different." Besides, I don't think any Acura model with a base price of over $45K will ever be a big seller until Acura does something to strengthen the brand. Until then, Acura will be the Japanese Volvo, and that's not a bad thing. Meanwhile, we RL owners will continue to enjoy our cars and (hopefully) appreciate its uniqueness. Personally, I am considering driving my RL from the DC area to the San Francisco area, and I think the RL would be well suited for such a trip.
06-09-2006, 03:44 PM
#63
My only car is a Bus
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Being a sales consultant let me ask you for some honest feedback on the RL.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
06-09-2006, 03:53 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
1) Yes. The RL's back seat is about the same as the Lexus GS, BMW 530, and Infiniti M that I test drove. And it has a little more back seat room than the 2001 Acura CL Type S that I owned before.
2) Yes. A fold down seat would be nice, but I don't need it.
3) Most definitely!
4) Smooth without being completely isolated like the Lexus GS that I test drove when cross shopping.
5) Gas mileage could always be better, but it meets expectations.
6) I've gotten lots of compliments on my car from Acura owners, an Infiniti G35 owner who likes the RL better than the M, and others. Then again, I live in Northern VA, which has many Japanese-car aficionados.
7) No, Radley Acura's service is not worthy of a $50K car. From what I understand, few Acura service departments' service is worthy of a $50K car. That's part of the reason why Acura can't sell $50K cars: the dealerships aren't ready for the big leagues.
8) I've told my friends to buy an RL, I've let them drive my RL and they love it. Unfortunately, my friends are either too poor to by an RL or they are steadfast BMW fans.
2) Yes. A fold down seat would be nice, but I don't need it.
3) Most definitely!
4) Smooth without being completely isolated like the Lexus GS that I test drove when cross shopping.
5) Gas mileage could always be better, but it meets expectations.
6) I've gotten lots of compliments on my car from Acura owners, an Infiniti G35 owner who likes the RL better than the M, and others. Then again, I live in Northern VA, which has many Japanese-car aficionados.
7) No, Radley Acura's service is not worthy of a $50K car. From what I understand, few Acura service departments' service is worthy of a $50K car. That's part of the reason why Acura can't sell $50K cars: the dealerships aren't ready for the big leagues.
8) I've told my friends to buy an RL, I've let them drive my RL and they love it. Unfortunately, my friends are either too poor to by an RL or they are steadfast BMW fans.
06-09-2006, 05:01 PM
#65
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by CL6
Being a sales consultant let me ask you for some honest feedback on the RL.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
Again with the backseat, acceleration, and trunk. THe RL is no different than other cars costing as much or more (read GS, and BMW), but for some reason Acura is the only one who's clueless.
I have to agree with the previous poster on all his points. In the short time I've had the car, I've received numerous compliments.
Ride quality is firm, something I expect from a performance car. Is BMW criticized for the firm setup of their suspension.
Acceleration is on-par with other comparable V6 powered AWD luxury performance sedans (M, GS and BMW).
THe service department of my dealership has always treated me in a first class manner, from the time I owned my '93 Vigor, to my '01 TL to now. First rate. Maybe I'm in the minority, but the service department went a long way in my purchase decision.
Gas mileage.... It's a large AWD car. Again it's comparable to a 530xi or a an M35x, but some reason it's only a criticism of the RL.
...and lastly I would not hesitate to recommend this car to anyone.
06-09-2006, 06:27 PM
#66
Originally Posted by CL6
Being a sales consultant let me ask you for some honest feedback on the RL.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers?
~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff?
~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing?
~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand?
~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations?
~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it?
~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car?
~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
2. Not even close - When four of us go golfing we take the Chevy Tahoe. The trunk is weird in size. Even just two of us taking golf bags seems like poor trunk accommodations. Golf bags and/or standard luggage (for vacations/ business trips) don't seem to fit very well and the trunk net is nearly worthless. It would be better served if it anchored at four lower floor corners.
3. Sure but on Montana highways I don't need the get up and go punch except during maximum tourist season. Not to seem mean, but my 4 cylinder Integra GSR V-Tec seems like it has more torque through all the gears.
4. The ride is fine. Somewhere in between my 95 Integra GSR with adjustable KYB shocks and Eibach Pro springs and my 95 Tahoe. Its only bad point IMO is that the original tires make it feel a wee bit sloppy. The upgrade to Pirelli made a significant difference.
5. Gas mileage is a sore point, especially city . My S10 4WD pickup gets about the same mileage both city and highway and its a smaller V6 with 10 year old technology. My 95 GSR gets 33 mpg at 75-80 mph, so why can't the V6 get at least 28. I think with all the technology spent on F1 racing they could get a V6 that gets 28 highway and 22 city.
6. Few people ask about it.
7. Never had a 50K car before and didn't pay that much for this one (Tahoe was 36K), but I find that service departments vary from good to horrible (my closest is 300+ miles away) but they all seems to think that if you can afford an RL that $215 for an oil change and a brief under car inspection shouldn't be a problem.
8. No. I bought the RL for the SH-AWD. It is truly great for the roads and weather in Montana (though the undercarriage is a little low to the ground for the train crossings in most every Montana city and sometomes scrapes on city steets and roads in need of some repair), but I would and have told friends to stick with crossovers or conventional 4WD / AWD. Part of it is because there are no close Acura delaerships, but also because it doesn't seem worth the extra, unless it fits what you want.
9. A question you didn't ask - Would I buy another one? Actually, yes. Does that surprise you from what I've said above? I'm one of the individuals that always has liked Honda/Acura from the time I bought my first new Accord way back in 1976. The controls fit and the ergonomic design is comfortable. When you play a golf course the layout either fits your eye and style/game or it doesn't. Acuras fit my style. But I bought my RL for a great deal less than MSRP so style, function and economic reality all played a part. I'm a professional mediator and teach classes in negotiation
so getting the price I want is somewhat easier. 
Having paid particular attention to this thread I'm struck by the idea that the Acura braintrust doesn't know how to approach this specific buying segment. Its almost like they created a vehicle and said "Here, what do you think?" For the mainstream, Honda is a great choice in nearly every vehicle they roll off of the assembly line (or so reports JD Powers, Car and Driver, Road & Track, etc.). The Acuras all seem to fit a particular buying segment except for the RL. Frankly if the TL had SH-AWD, I would have bought it. I like the exterior lines a bit better and the fit and finsh is great, but I know that FWD just doesn't cut it for my needs. I even gave the RDX some serious thought, but after a friend saw it in Detroit I realized it was not what I wanted.
All in all I think that the RL either fits your eye and expectations or it doesn't. I really think that it "is" selling at its potential and not much can be done to convince someone to buy an RL. It either fits like a glove or you need a different model.
Again, respectfully submitting my
Ben
06-09-2006, 06:56 PM
#67
Three Wheelin'
Good points from everyone. One point that should be made is that the RL was NOT made with the USA market in mind at all. The RDX, MDX, and TL were designed for the US and Canada, and I think those vehicles are (or will be) big sellers. The Legend/RL, on the other hand, is a true import, and might not be appreciated by most of us in the U.S., just like most of us might not appreciate Japanese art, music or whatever. Acura knew that when they predicted 15,000 sales of the 2005 Acura RL. So let's not expect Joe Sixpack (or his more affluent counterpart) to run to buy the RL.
People who complain that the RL is too small really need an SUV in their lives, and that's fine. But they shouldn't penalize the RL or try to make it what it is not. This car is not nor will it ever be a full-size car. It is a MID-SIZE car like the BMW 5 series or the Lexus GS. One reason why I think Honda/Acura should make a full-size car is so the media and certain individuals can stop comparing the RL to the Lexus LS, Audi A8 and other cars in that category. It is an unfair and inaccurate comparison.
The RL is for those of us who live in or near urban areas or who don't desire a full-size car or SUV. I realize we are in the minority, but we do exist. The RL is for those of us who think the TL has entirely too much torque and horsepower going to the front wheels, while some TL drivers have no idea what torque is, let alone torque steer. The RL is for those of us who can tell the difference between real wood and fake wood, like we can tell the difference between AWD and FWD. The RL is for those of us who think the new TL's styling is a little too faddish and actually like Japanese minimalism. The RL is for those of us who actually like technology instead of merely tolerate it and realize that the RL's implementation of features is more outstanding that just the sheer number of features. We may be few in number and clustered only in certain areas of the country, but apparently Honda in Japan, not Acura in America, decided we were enough to justify creating such an impressive car and shipping it here. Considering how many Japanese cars and technologies DON'T get to America in part because the Japanese don't think we would appreciate those products, and I think RL owners are pretty damned lucky.
People who complain that the RL is too small really need an SUV in their lives, and that's fine. But they shouldn't penalize the RL or try to make it what it is not. This car is not nor will it ever be a full-size car. It is a MID-SIZE car like the BMW 5 series or the Lexus GS. One reason why I think Honda/Acura should make a full-size car is so the media and certain individuals can stop comparing the RL to the Lexus LS, Audi A8 and other cars in that category. It is an unfair and inaccurate comparison.
The RL is for those of us who live in or near urban areas or who don't desire a full-size car or SUV. I realize we are in the minority, but we do exist. The RL is for those of us who think the TL has entirely too much torque and horsepower going to the front wheels, while some TL drivers have no idea what torque is, let alone torque steer. The RL is for those of us who can tell the difference between real wood and fake wood, like we can tell the difference between AWD and FWD. The RL is for those of us who think the new TL's styling is a little too faddish and actually like Japanese minimalism. The RL is for those of us who actually like technology instead of merely tolerate it and realize that the RL's implementation of features is more outstanding that just the sheer number of features. We may be few in number and clustered only in certain areas of the country, but apparently Honda in Japan, not Acura in America, decided we were enough to justify creating such an impressive car and shipping it here. Considering how many Japanese cars and technologies DON'T get to America in part because the Japanese don't think we would appreciate those products, and I think RL owners are pretty damned lucky.
06-09-2006, 07:14 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Good points from everyone. One point that should be made is that the RL was NOT made with the USA market in mind at all. The RDX, MDX, and TL were designed for the US and Canada, and I think those vehicles are (or will be) big sellers. The Legend/RL, on the other hand, is a true import, and might not be appreciated by most of us in the U.S., just like most of us might not appreciate Japanese art, music or whatever. Acura knew that when they predicted 15,000 sales of the 2005 Acura RL. So let's not expect Joe Sixpack (or his more affluent counterpart) to run to buy the RL.
People who complain that the RL is too small really need an SUV in their lives, and that's fine. But they shouldn't penalize the RL or try to make it what it is not. This car is not nor will it ever be a full-size car. It is a MID-SIZE car like the BMW 5 series or the Lexus GS. One reason why I think Honda/Acura should make a full-size car is so the media and certain individuals can stop comparing the RL to the Lexus LS, Audi A8 and other cars in that category. It is an unfair and inaccurate comparison.
The RL is for those of us who live in or near urban areas or who don't desire a full-size car or SUV. I realize we are in the minority, but we do exist. The RL is for those of us who think the TL has entirely too much torque and horsepower going to the front wheels, while some TL drivers have no idea what torque is, let alone torque steer. The RL is for those of us who can tell the difference between real wood and fake wood, like we can tell the difference between AWD and FWD. The RL is for those of us who think the new TL's styling is a little too faddish and actually like Japanese minimalism. The RL is for those of us who actually like technology instead of merely tolerate it and realize that the RL's implementation of features is more outstanding that just the sheer number of features. We may be few in number and clustered only in certain areas of the country, but apparently Honda in Japan, not Acura in America, decided we were enough to justify creating such an impressive car and shipping it here. Considering how many Japanese cars and technologies DON'T get to America in part because the Japanese don't think we would appreciate those products, and I think RL owners are pretty damned lucky.
People who complain that the RL is too small really need an SUV in their lives, and that's fine. But they shouldn't penalize the RL or try to make it what it is not. This car is not nor will it ever be a full-size car. It is a MID-SIZE car like the BMW 5 series or the Lexus GS. One reason why I think Honda/Acura should make a full-size car is so the media and certain individuals can stop comparing the RL to the Lexus LS, Audi A8 and other cars in that category. It is an unfair and inaccurate comparison.
The RL is for those of us who live in or near urban areas or who don't desire a full-size car or SUV. I realize we are in the minority, but we do exist. The RL is for those of us who think the TL has entirely too much torque and horsepower going to the front wheels, while some TL drivers have no idea what torque is, let alone torque steer. The RL is for those of us who can tell the difference between real wood and fake wood, like we can tell the difference between AWD and FWD. The RL is for those of us who think the new TL's styling is a little too faddish and actually like Japanese minimalism. The RL is for those of us who actually like technology instead of merely tolerate it and realize that the RL's implementation of features is more outstanding that just the sheer number of features. We may be few in number and clustered only in certain areas of the country, but apparently Honda in Japan, not Acura in America, decided we were enough to justify creating such an impressive car and shipping it here. Considering how many Japanese cars and technologies DON'T get to America in part because the Japanese don't think we would appreciate those products, and I think RL owners are pretty damned lucky.
This post encapsulates exactly how I feel. Well said.
06-09-2006, 09:11 PM
#69
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Good points from everyone. One point that should be made is that the RL was NOT made with the USA market in mind at all. ... The Legend/RL, on the other hand, is a true import, and might not be appreciated by most of us in the U.S., just like most of us might not appreciate Japanese art, music or whatever. ... So let's not expect Joe Sixpack (or his more affluent counterpart) to run to buy the RL. .....
I appreciate what you said and how you said it but I might offer something more and hopefully it won't muddy the waters. A good friend spent about 15 years developing products in the US for the Japanese market (when there was less of a deficit). He would spend 6 months developing a prototype and take it to his Japanese purchasers. They would tear it apart and then produce something that better fit their needs as a generic "one size fits all". He would get very frustrated with them because he said it would be more cost effective to produce one base product and then have options that allowed the consumer to buy the specific product upgrades that they wanted rather than produce one model that had most of everything that most everyone wanted. It took 7 years, alot of whiskey, a divorce and countless sleepless nights before he learned a powerful lesson. The Japanese will spend as much time as is needed to create the generic one size fits all product and then produce a bunch of them until its time to update the product. The marketing mentality was that the consumer can take it or leave it, but since companies spent so much time figuing out what the majoity of consumers wanted, most of them (the consumers) were happy to get the appliance, use it until something that better suited their needs came along. When his Japanese counterpart came ot the United States for an extended stay to view and update the production facility (yes, we actually made stuff in the US to be sent to Japan) he thought it would be fun to buy an American car. The variety of combinations, models, colors, styles and accessories so overwhelmed him that he got mad and left the dealership(there was also a funny story about the salesman trying to pressure him into buying a car "that day" - but that's another story). His words to my friend were given as advice -- "Too many choices and no quality to differentiate". jhr3uva90's words ring so true when examined by those words. The Japanese created a vehicle that to them was a much as the consumer should have to choose from and then the quality of the product would make the decision about whether or not to purchase easier for the consumer.
The quality of the RL is not so much seen, but it is instead, experienced because of the knowledge about the quality.
Sorry, about the story, but tonight I've been on a writing frenzy. I'll go back to being quiet and just lurking.
06-09-2006, 09:31 PM
#70
Intermediate
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Here are some more specific answers to your questions, CL6, however, I think the others are on the right track about the real value of the RL and its quality.
Originally Posted by CL6
Being a sales consultant let me ask you for some honest feedback on the RL.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers? No one has every compalined, however,I and my wife have relatively short legs, so there is plenty of room in the back seats. ~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff? This week I was able to get 4 golf stand bags in the trunk along with shoes, etc. Specially with the Tech package there is plenty of room. ~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing? This car may be a little slow off the line at low revs, but it shines in merging or passing when the revs are up. ~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand? Toward the smooth side. Suspension actually could be a little firmer but the ride quality is good. The PAX tires on the tech package seem to improve handling and ride. ~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations? I get 16-18 around town and about 25 to 26 on hwy. For a heavy AWD this is good and much better than my last Audi A6's. ~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it? Yes, but generally after they have ridden in it. ~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car? Not really, though the experience has been mixed. I've also had poor Mercedes service. Generally though the ambiance and customer handling leave something to be desired. ~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
Yes -- though an 06 with Tech.
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
~ Does the backseat offer enough legroom for your passengers? No one has every compalined, however,I and my wife have relatively short legs, so there is plenty of room in the back seats. ~ Is the trunk big enough to hold all your stuff? This week I was able to get 4 golf stand bags in the trunk along with shoes, etc. Specially with the Tech package there is plenty of room. ~ Does the RL have enough 'get up and go' when merging or passing? This car may be a little slow off the line at low revs, but it shines in merging or passing when the revs are up. ~ On the scale from Smooth to Bumpy where does RL ride quality stand? Toward the smooth side. Suspension actually could be a little firmer but the ride quality is good. The PAX tires on the tech package seem to improve handling and ride. ~ What is your gas mileage and does it meet your expectations? I get 16-18 around town and about 25 to 26 on hwy. For a heavy AWD this is good and much better than my last Audi A6's. ~ Do people ever ask you about your car and how you like it? Yes, but generally after they have ridden in it. ~ Has your service experience been on par for a 50 grand car? Not really, though the experience has been mixed. I've also had poor Mercedes service. Generally though the ambiance and customer handling leave something to be desired. ~ Would you tell your best friend to get an RL if they were in the market?
Yes -- though an 06 with Tech.
As I said earlier... we're so close to the car, seeing it every day, that sometimes we lose the ability to 'see' the car as it really is.
06-09-2006, 10:14 PM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Bnush's words are very educational. I guess we are driving a "true" Japanese car!
06-10-2006, 06:51 AM
#72
Safety Car
Faux Wood
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
The RL is for those of us who can tell the difference between real wood and fake wood, like we can tell the difference between AWD and FWD.
With fake aluminum, like in the TSX, you can touch it & tell it is not real. No so much w/ wood. Still waiting for Acura to come out w/ a sport version like the Infiniti M that offers all alluminum interior *crosses fingers*
Bi the way: for 1st time last night I was behind an RL on the road @ nite & I really like the design of the tail lights. The whole circular thingie goin on looks really nice. The could make the outter part a little flashier other than a slanted square but the inner part is nifty.
06-10-2006, 06:53 AM
#73
1st Gear
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I've been considering a new car for the past month or so. What started it was my father bought a 2006 RL. Our family has always had Hondas and Acuras. My first was '89 Acura Integra - 13 yrs and 265,000 flawless miles - I loved that car! In fact I loved it so much it took about 4 years to give it up even after i found a car worthy of replacing it with - a brand new 1999 MB CLK320.
Last year I augmented the Benz with a 2005 TL - why go from a Benz to a TL - the gadgets!!! I needed the Bluetooth and the navi - the new Benz's flat out were a joke. Quality, lack of uniqueness across the models - especially in thje cockpits is truly disappointing! I mean - when you buy a $50k+ car you expect it to have a very different look than its $30k cousin (inside and out)!
Alas - the TL - great car - can't get used to the FWD, like the interior styling but have gotten bored with the exterior. Back to my father's 2006 Rl - one word - phenomenal!!!
Its drives similar but better than my CLK (power delivery is smooth, ride is perfect, cornering is wow!!!), the interior is probably the most luxurious and unique on the road today - Benz and BMW have screwed that up in my opinion, Lexus is nice but actually feels more Japanese than anything Acura is offering, Infinity just seems to techno like to me. The Rl's interior offers the right balance of techno and luxury.
Anyway - what's keeping me from buying thus far ...? The exterior is a little bland but still a little different and attractive - not a real wow factor - but good. Service, service, service - for $50k i expect a whole different experience from Honda's upscale line. My service experience with the TL has been far less than i expected to the point where its equivilant to a Jiffy Lube.
If I buy $50k car I expect the one trip to the dealer a year to be beyond that of a cheap lounge, no loaner, and stale coffee and donuts. I've tried two different dealers and have found the same thing at both. Not much better than a Honda dealership.
Also, the Sales folks are more in line with volume dealers - not luxury marks. I may be coming across as superficial - but if your buying $50k+ car - guess what - you're superficial. Its the entire package that sells not just the car. Lexus and Infinity have figured that out, though I'm not as impressed by their vehicles.
The other thing that cracks me is the lease cost - I can lease a Benz or BMW, whith same purchase price for significantly less! Explain that one. Just for comparisons I looked at a BMW 540, MB E350, and a MB CLK 350 - all 2006's. Final price points were within $1-2k of each other and the RL ($46k) - yet the RL came out, compared with the CLK almost $150/mo more? The E350 and the BMW were around $100/mo less. Albeit, feature for feature the Rl wins hands down - but still - its the price point that's essentially the same. The best I got was $599/mo for the RL. Same money down across the board. For $600/mo, the service experience had better be just as phenomenal as the car.
The differentiation between the RL and the TL at this point is not enough for me to make the move - very disappointed. So I'll wait until something better comes along ... or the RL drops in price to be in line with the crappy offerings of the Germans.
Sorry for the ramble ...
Last year I augmented the Benz with a 2005 TL - why go from a Benz to a TL - the gadgets!!! I needed the Bluetooth and the navi - the new Benz's flat out were a joke. Quality, lack of uniqueness across the models - especially in thje cockpits is truly disappointing! I mean - when you buy a $50k+ car you expect it to have a very different look than its $30k cousin (inside and out)!
Alas - the TL - great car - can't get used to the FWD, like the interior styling but have gotten bored with the exterior. Back to my father's 2006 Rl - one word - phenomenal!!!
Its drives similar but better than my CLK (power delivery is smooth, ride is perfect, cornering is wow!!!), the interior is probably the most luxurious and unique on the road today - Benz and BMW have screwed that up in my opinion, Lexus is nice but actually feels more Japanese than anything Acura is offering, Infinity just seems to techno like to me. The Rl's interior offers the right balance of techno and luxury.
Anyway - what's keeping me from buying thus far ...? The exterior is a little bland but still a little different and attractive - not a real wow factor - but good. Service, service, service - for $50k i expect a whole different experience from Honda's upscale line. My service experience with the TL has been far less than i expected to the point where its equivilant to a Jiffy Lube.
If I buy $50k car I expect the one trip to the dealer a year to be beyond that of a cheap lounge, no loaner, and stale coffee and donuts. I've tried two different dealers and have found the same thing at both. Not much better than a Honda dealership.
Also, the Sales folks are more in line with volume dealers - not luxury marks. I may be coming across as superficial - but if your buying $50k+ car - guess what - you're superficial. Its the entire package that sells not just the car. Lexus and Infinity have figured that out, though I'm not as impressed by their vehicles.
The other thing that cracks me is the lease cost - I can lease a Benz or BMW, whith same purchase price for significantly less! Explain that one. Just for comparisons I looked at a BMW 540, MB E350, and a MB CLK 350 - all 2006's. Final price points were within $1-2k of each other and the RL ($46k) - yet the RL came out, compared with the CLK almost $150/mo more? The E350 and the BMW were around $100/mo less. Albeit, feature for feature the Rl wins hands down - but still - its the price point that's essentially the same. The best I got was $599/mo for the RL. Same money down across the board. For $600/mo, the service experience had better be just as phenomenal as the car.
The differentiation between the RL and the TL at this point is not enough for me to make the move - very disappointed. So I'll wait until something better comes along ... or the RL drops in price to be in line with the crappy offerings of the Germans.
Sorry for the ramble ...
06-10-2006, 09:53 AM
#74
Three Wheelin'
To TSX69: I think the RL and the TSX have a stronger family resemblance than the TL. What do you think?
06-10-2006, 10:08 AM
#75
Three Wheelin'
I think aegeanblue makes some good points about the dealerships. I think they are accustomed to selling Integras, RSXs, and other cars for less than $25K. I think they tend to have little experience selling expensive cars, which is why none of Acura's cars with a base price over $45K have ever sold well. It's almost like they need to go to a Lexus showroom or a Cadillac showroom to learn a few things. Also, the service department: a Lexus GS driver usually gets a GS as a loaner car, but what an Acura RL driver gets depends on the dealership's service department. At Radley Acura, we usually get a TSX (although they are going to change their policy). At some dealerships, you get a rental car. That is not how you treat customers with expensive cars. Also (time for a pet peeve), Radley Acura should have a shuttle bus that goes to the Metro every 30 minutes, if not more often. Once an hour is not acceptable, especially since the dealership is 10 minutes away from the Metro. Yes, I have bitched at them about this.
I'm no expert on leases, but I have heard from many people that the RL costs more to lease, even if it costs less to buy. Honda needs to do whatever it takes to remedy the situation. I think it goes back to Acura's lack of experience with upscale cars. They are probably accustomed to TL or CL owners who are more inclined to buy their cars than luxury car owners who are far more inclined to lease.
It's ironic that the oldest Japanese luxury brand seems to have the least experience with luxury.
I'm no expert on leases, but I have heard from many people that the RL costs more to lease, even if it costs less to buy. Honda needs to do whatever it takes to remedy the situation. I think it goes back to Acura's lack of experience with upscale cars. They are probably accustomed to TL or CL owners who are more inclined to buy their cars than luxury car owners who are far more inclined to lease.
It's ironic that the oldest Japanese luxury brand seems to have the least experience with luxury.
06-10-2006, 11:00 AM
#76
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I do agree that a big issue may be that Acura dealers are not at the same level with Lexus or BMW dealers. Actually, to my point earlier, from a performance point, in many reviews the RL has outperformed the GS among other competitors, but the critics point out flaws in the RL that exists in those competitors as well.
I do think that the dealers have a long way to go. I have received nothing but outstanding service from Acura of Libertyville. The service department has always treated me well.
Last year I was involved in a car accident with my TL a short distance from the dealership. THe accident tore off the bumper of the car and the police told me I needed to move it. Since I was near the dealership, and I drove there figuring I was probably going to get the car fixed at theor bodyshop anyway, but I wanted to drop off the bumper. I arrive at the dealership a short while after they were closed. I still saw people in the service department. I knock on the door and the service manager waves to me and starts walking to the door. As she nears, her smile turns to shock as she sees my car.
I told her what happened and that I just wanted to drop off the bumper. The car was still driveable, and I would come back in the morning. Her immediate response was, "You can't drive that car. Bring it in the the shop and I'll get you a loaner". She immediately put me in a brand new TSX loaner. I told her I wasn;t sure what my insurance company was going to cover as far as a loaner goes. Her response was, "As long as I don't have a desperate need, it's yours". I ended up driving that car for two weeks, and I know they never billed the insurance company for it, because if the did, I know my insurance company would have made me return it and get something from Enterprise.
That is one of the many stories regarding that dealership. THe purchase of my RL was hassle-free and pleasant. About a week after I bought my car, I was walking along through the little league baseball complex where my kids play. I was walking towards my car when I saw an MDX pull up close to me and the driver called out to me by name. It was the owner of the dealership. He was there watching his grandchildren play, and saw me and my car. He asked me how I was enjoying the car. I was impressed he remembered who I was, especially since I didn't deal directly with him.
Now I know that's not the case with all the dealerships around hear. I had a less than pleasant experience with Arlingotn Acura when I bought my Vigor in the early '90s, and an insulting experience from Pauly Acura when I was shopping for my '01 TL.
I do agree that the dealers need to get more in line with the service befitting a luxury car maker. I guess I take it for granted based on what I experience.
I do think that the dealers have a long way to go. I have received nothing but outstanding service from Acura of Libertyville. The service department has always treated me well.
Last year I was involved in a car accident with my TL a short distance from the dealership. THe accident tore off the bumper of the car and the police told me I needed to move it. Since I was near the dealership, and I drove there figuring I was probably going to get the car fixed at theor bodyshop anyway, but I wanted to drop off the bumper. I arrive at the dealership a short while after they were closed. I still saw people in the service department. I knock on the door and the service manager waves to me and starts walking to the door. As she nears, her smile turns to shock as she sees my car.
I told her what happened and that I just wanted to drop off the bumper. The car was still driveable, and I would come back in the morning. Her immediate response was, "You can't drive that car. Bring it in the the shop and I'll get you a loaner". She immediately put me in a brand new TSX loaner. I told her I wasn;t sure what my insurance company was going to cover as far as a loaner goes. Her response was, "As long as I don't have a desperate need, it's yours". I ended up driving that car for two weeks, and I know they never billed the insurance company for it, because if the did, I know my insurance company would have made me return it and get something from Enterprise.
That is one of the many stories regarding that dealership. THe purchase of my RL was hassle-free and pleasant. About a week after I bought my car, I was walking along through the little league baseball complex where my kids play. I was walking towards my car when I saw an MDX pull up close to me and the driver called out to me by name. It was the owner of the dealership. He was there watching his grandchildren play, and saw me and my car. He asked me how I was enjoying the car. I was impressed he remembered who I was, especially since I didn't deal directly with him.
Now I know that's not the case with all the dealerships around hear. I had a less than pleasant experience with Arlingotn Acura when I bought my Vigor in the early '90s, and an insulting experience from Pauly Acura when I was shopping for my '01 TL.
I do agree that the dealers need to get more in line with the service befitting a luxury car maker. I guess I take it for granted based on what I experience.
06-10-2006, 11:29 AM
#77
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I think what Benush says is true. Lexus and Infiniti allow customers to choose their options, per BMW, and this seems to work for them. I think Honda needs to rethink their approach to the RL if they want to increase sales. They probably won't... or they won't 'get it' and know what to do. But, in my opinion, until Acura can conquer the luxury car barrier they will never rival BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus. It will be interesting to see how long it takes Infiniti to surpass Acura, if ever. But Honda/Acura will remain the most Japanese of companies, for good or bad. Very good thread. If only Honda Corporate would read it!
06-11-2006, 05:21 PM
#78
9th Gear
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07 Rl
From an extremely reliable source. The new RL, will in fact have options, as noted in another post. Same engine, NAV optional, SP also option, AWD option, others not defined. The target MSRP for entry is supposed to be around $ 42K.
And so it goes with Honda.
And so it goes with Honda.
06-11-2006, 07:19 PM
#79
Three Wheelin'
CL6, I agree with you about options. Acura's reason for not offering options is because customization increases manufacturing costs. In fact, one of the reasons why Honda and other Japanese manufacturers were able to take on the American manufacturers in the 1970's and 1980's is because the Japanese (especially Honda) offered fewer options, thereby decreasing costs. The problem is that the luxury car customer is different from the typical Honda customer or even a typical Acura TL customer. The luxury customer is willing to pay more money for more options.
06-11-2006, 07:20 PM
#80
Three Wheelin'
I'm sure there will be a de-contented, low-end RL for 2007. I hope there is also a more high-end RL. I hope that whatever engine goes into the new MDX also goes to the RL.