The price difference between MaxLife and Acura OEM ATF is only a few dollars (actually $17 for MaxLife and $22 for Acura ATF). So why would someone take the risk not using OEM just for a few bucks? When it comes to tranny I've leanred not to cheap out on ATF.

 

Here is a thread over at the Odyclub with a post that has a report by an expert on the chemical makeup of different compatible fluids:

https://www.odyclub.com/threads/maxl.../#post-2350267

 

I don't use MaxLife because it's cheaper...although that is certainly a side benefit. I use MaxLife because in my personal experience, it has completely cured mis-behaving transmissions when OEM fluid did not. There's also a lot of other Honda owners out there who share my same experience.

BTW...where are getting 4 quarts of DW-1 for $22.00? I'm sure there are others here who might want to take advantage of that.

 

I used Maxlife instead of OEM in my VW and got lots of issues including slipping tranny. I haven't see any evidence that a general purpose ATF like Maxlife would work better than factory specific fluid but if that works out fine for you I would say go for it. I personally stick to OEM fluid as transmission is too critical part to risk it.


I buy 3 qrt for $22 from Acura dealership in Troy, Michigan.

 

So if Acura/Honda is having issues with their automatic transmissions and I am sure they want to save time and money, why have they not switched to MaxLife and bottled it?

 

Did MaxLife have the required VW approval on the back of the jug?

I just used MaxLife in a Hyundai, but only since they listed the Hyundai SP spec on it. Same no difference, but replaced it because the Hyundai manual called for a change at 60K miles.

 

Sorry to hear that, but frankly, this is a discussion / forum about Acura & Honda transmissions...not VW's

You will concede however, thousands of other Acura / Honda owners have. Your other post implied that use of MaxLife synthetic ATF was a priced-based decision. Nothing could be further for the truth for myself and thousands of other Acura / Honda owners who use MaxLife synthetic ATF. Further, the use of OEM fluid was the common denominator in these transmission issues...which at that point it was critical for a change away from the OEM fluid.

I and many others stick to MaxLife synthetic ATF for the same reason. If MaxLife ATF is not for you...I completely understand and you're not alone.

Every Acura / Honda transmission connected to a K or J engine in my personal fleet (past or present) would be under-filled at only 3 quarts.

That's a question for Corporate Acura / Honda. What I can tell you is that when Poolman had the transmission serviced in his RDX at the dealership...the dealership used MaxLife synthetic ATF.

 

where can I read about these thousands of customers complaining about OEM fluid has caused damage or malfunction on their Acura/Honda transmissions? Any credible website or news channel?

The way I read this is that corporate Honda has risked a class action law suit from thousands of customers but still recommends using OEM fluid. Is that right?

 

A simple google search of "valvoline maxlife atf in honda" should get you started on hours of good reading.

In my opinion...YES. Honda hit with lawsuit over minivan transmission problems

 

I know I posted a link to a whole thread, but here is what was in the post I wanted to have some of you read:

"Three ATF’s were analyzed by two labs, one a university lab and another a commercial lab to determine their elemental and chemical composition because of on-going debates about the suitability of each fluid for various applications. The three ATF’s analyzed were: Genuine Honda DW-1, Valvoline MaxLife, and Idemitsu Type H-Plus.

All ATF’s were purchased in early July at the author’s expense.

Analytical analysis used was FTIR, C-NMR, and H-NMR on various instrumentation types.

Two of the fluids, Valvoline MaxLife, and Idemitsu Type H-Plus were purchased from a local auto parts store while the Genuine Honda DW-1 was purchased from a Honda Dealer at the parts counter. The price of the Genuine Honda DW-1 and Idemitsu Type H averaged about $8.11 per quart. The price of the Valvoline MaxLife averaged about $5.00/quart.

Note: Only the elemental analysis for Boron down to Zinc will be reported since any elements < 2ppm usually represent some chemical “tag” or very low levels of metal inhibitor chemistry.

This analysis will not disclose any base oil, Friction Modifier, or other possible proprietary compounds. Readers are referred to the respective manufacturers’ web sites for ATF properties, claims, and coverage, or “Suitable for Use in” categories. Note: “Suitable for Use In” does NOT equate to equivalency!

All elemental and viscosity values were averaged over the samples.

Original Honda DW-1™ (Part # beginning with 08200-):
Boron - 272
Silicon - 4
Sodium - 3
Calcium - 353
Magnesium - 204
Phosphorus - 2
Zinc – 320
Viscosity@100C – 6.93 cSt
Commentary and Opinion: The chemical signature for this ATF is essentially the same as Honda’s Z-1 fluid and is indicative of fluids used in Automated Manual transmissions. To the author’s knowledge, no Step-Shift ATF chemical signature compares. Notable is the level of the Zinc compounds needed for the internals of Automated Manual transmissions.

Owners’ of Step-Shift automatic transmissions should avoid using this product in any Step-Shift automatic transmission.
 

Label - Valvoline MaxLife™ (Part # beginning with 773):
Boron - 272
Silicon - 2
Sodium - 8
Calcium - 230
Magnesium - 3
Phosphorus - 579
Zinc – 3
Viscosity@100C – 5.91 cSt

Commentary and Opinion: The chemical signature for this ATF is indicative of the later Dexron and Dex/Merc series of ATF’s based on the original Dexron through the Dexron III(H)) and Dexron VI series of ATF’s. It is closely comparative to the GM Dexron VI formulations as well as to their own Dexron VI offering, and can be classified as a low Viscosity ATF. What is notable is a boost in the Ant-Wear Phosphorus compound of about 200 ppm.

The manufacturer claims coverage, or “Suitable for Use in” (no equivalency claims) for Honda/Acura’s Z-1 and DW-1. I do not see how this could be the case when compared to the DW-1 analysis above.

Valvoline could claim coverage of Idemitsu’s fluid because Idemitsu Type-H is claiming coverage of Honda Z-1 and DW-1 (see below), but this would be a gross overstepping of “read-across” coverage, and nowhere in Valvoline’s PI sheets do I see “Suitable for Use in” Idemitsu Type H-Plus applications.


Label - Idemitsu Type H-Plus™ (Part # beginning with 30040090-):
Boron - 30
Silicon - 2
Sodium - 3
Calcium - 265
Magnesium - 2
Phosphorus - 245
Zinc – 3
Viscosity@100C – 5.91 cSt

Commentary and Opinion: The chemical signature for this ATF is indicative of the fluid used in many Asian-made Step-Shift automatic transmissions. As you can see from the MaxLife comments it is very similar to the GM Dexron series.

However, the Idemitsu label claims, “ATF Type-H plus Engineered for Honda Z-1 and DW-1.” Again, looking at the analysis for the Original Honda DW-1, I fail to see how this could be the case.

I know some of you feel that some fluids are better than others. However, I know from my experience with weak Honda transmissions in big vehicles, that changing the fluid makes the most difference.
And with this particular trans, making sure you have the software updates. And don't skip over the authors use of the term "automated manual transmission". Honda does not make hydromatics.
Borg Warner wouldn't give them the patents.

 

This is for Odyssey not RDX. I guess we realize that different models are manufactured in different countries and use different transmissions made by different companies. Thus if for the sake of argument Odyssey has had transmission problems you can't generalize it to the entire brand of Acura or Honda. I did search online and found contrary to what you say RDX transmission repairs are in fact small percentage compared to electrical or other issues.

 

Good info. Apart from the software update (which myself should go after it) I think one important factor is also the towing weight and carried cargo that greatly impacts transmission life span. This is also explained in the owner's manual.
The way one accelerates from full stop puts a lot of pressure on transmission.

 

Please keep in mind that, except for some tuning and engine mounts, this is the same trans & engine used in Odysseys, Pilots, MDXs, Ridgelines, V-6 Accords & Crosstours of similar vintage.
I do think the smaller the vehicle, the less the trans is taxed. I think it was here that an experiment was done on the trans fluid temps and it was found that idling caused the trans
fluid to heat up the most. But even the transmissions in those Honda/Acura products cited above have not seen failures, just annoying judders during shifts. (that the software is supposed to address)
The is also the big problem of owners who have no idea they have a unique transmission the require regular fluid changes. It used to be every 45k, our MID equipped models set a code every 30k approx.
That normal drain & fill replaces 1/3 of the fluid. The service bulletin calls for doing that 3 times with simulated driving in between.

DO NOT DO what wsw did above and let any quick oil change place connect your transmission to a fluid change machine. Although it seemed to work for him, it can be fatal.

 

This is not a comparison of 2 completely different auto makers as you did above (VW vs Honda). There is almost complete commonality between the Odyssey and RDX transmissions with regard to the transmission's unique design (with both its strengths and weaknesses) and the fact that Honda built these transmissions. So yes, one can generalize these transmission issues between the Odyssey and RDX are related.

 

Your confused between the similar engines and similar transmissions. Honda and Acura may share similar 3.5L engines but they don't share same or similar transmissions. MDX which is the closest line to RDX has a 9 speed transmission where people have reported issues.

I guess there's no need to drag this discussion. The ATF analysis posted by 'egads' says it all. If you like to use Maxlife then by all means. I will not. But I also won't generalize that no one should do it.

 

True but changing it 3 times every 30K miles is not only tedious but it could be costly too. I've done double draining a couple of times and so far with 75K on the odo it runs well. I also made an appointment with my Acura dealer today for software update. The service bulletin mentions 10 qrt flushing of ATF is needed with that S/W update. The good thing is that it is covered under the power train warranty.

 

Regular service is a normal drain & fill every 30k, not a 3X every 30k. The service bulletin calls for that 3x to change as much of the degraded fluid as possible because they feel it is necessary
to restore function. In normal circumstances it is not. I think once the software has been updated, normal would be restored.

Many of the folks who experience issues in other Hondas with this trans have neglected the normal fluid changes. Trans fluid changes are not on the maintenance radar of people who may be new to Honda/Acura.

 

Nope, sorry...you're the one who is confused. You need to go back a do a little more reading...to also include: Again...this is just wrong.

The ZF HP9 in the MDX is a completely different design from the transmission in the 2nd Gen RDX / Odyssey being discussed...and not made by Honda.

Agreed...especially when you're blatantly wrong.

Not quite...This analysis will not disclose any base oil, Friction Modifier, or other possible proprietary compounds.

Thanks!...I'll do just that!

 

Great! but please remember "I'll do just that" is not the same as "hey everyone you must start using Maxlife in your RDX because that's the one". All I'm saying one should not generalize things based on a personal opinion.

Anyway, good luck with long term effects on using Maxlife in your tranny.

 

More wrongness and nothing I've ever stated. In fact, you must've missed this in response to one of your earlier posts:
Many with same opinion with the same shared successes...sharing those successes.

Thanks...I'm currently >500,000 miles with direct MaxLife ATF experience in Honda / Acura transmissions. And counting.

 

As I may have said here and everywhere else this gets discussed, the fluid brand is not what is important. Changing it is. The magic many folks attribute to Maxlife
could be achieved with Honda fluid by simply changing it. I used to have it done every other oil change at the Honda dealer. I now do that at the shop my son in law works at. I think that fluid is the Idemitsu Type H-Plus.
I have never noticed any difference.

 

Well you know what they say about the internet, it is the greatest source of unconfirmed information. I would know having been on a few forums, where people recommend one thing, everybody starts using it for years only to later find out it is the incorrect suspension kit (one of the many examples) for their cars, and this some 10 years later.

As for oil analysis, one clown on another forum double dared anybody to have lower UOA numbers than him. So I asked him what was the oil change interval (time and mileage). He refused to say. Well duhhh, if I fill the engine with fresh oil and then immediately drain it, I am sure my numbers will be lower. LOL Besides, how does a X ppm of something relate to how many more miles or less miles I can get out of the engine.

Here is another good one, "this oil is so much more slippery". LOL How do you know that? Did you measure it? Gotta laugh! And should you not get a consistent increase in MPG outside of the range of measurement uncertainty.

 

My experience and conclusions differ on a couple points with regard to these Honda transmissions and their maintenance. I don't share the belief that the type of fluid doesn't matter so much as long as it's changed often. Changing often certainly doesn't hurt, but every other oil change (15,000 miles?) isn't necessary in my experience.

With any used Honda / Acura I've purchased in the the past dozen or so years, one of the 1st items on creating a baseline maintenance record for that vehicle is performing a 3x drain/fill with MaxLife ATF. After the initial transmission service, I perform a single drain/fill every 50,000 miles thereafter with MaxLife ATF.

With regard to the type of fluid...I don't believe there's anything "magical" with MaxLife ATF, but more than once I've changed out fresh OEM ATF on a mis-behaving transmission for MaxLife ATF and the mis-behaving transmission began to behave. I'm not alone in this experience...in fact, see post #24 in this thread for another with similar results. My belief is that MaxLife ATF is at least as good as the OEM fluid and a superior pairing for these Honda transmissions...if the transmission is symptomatic.

My experience is across several Honda / Acura vehicles and over 500,000 miles and counting...all without a single transmission issue of any kind.

 

I wasn't referring to "your" or even to "this thread". Just the internet in general, be it accessories, batteries, whatever.

As for my cars and motorcycles, I have that and more on them over the years. I have never had an engine or transmission failure of any kind in 45 years, so I really have to wonder why so many "oil threads" on the internet and no, not referring to this one. Here is another good one, some buy the best oil and the cheapest oil filter. Go figure.

 

And my post wasn't in response to yours...otherwise, I would have quoted your post or that part to which I was specifically responding.

 

This could only be a coincidence. Again, one or two episodes can't set the ground to claim that MaxLife should be a preferred ATF for Honda or specifically RDX in this case. If you want to share a personal experience then OK but your statements come across as "absolute truth" that everyone should follow or see the consequences. IMHO Honda/Accura is far an intelligent company not knowing that its OE ATF is not suitable for its cars. Even if that would have been the case for a particular model year they would resolve it quickly as other manufacturers did and I witnessed myself since I work for a major auto company.

This is blanket statements. A problematic tranny could stem from many different causes than just ATF. A transmission that has suffered from regular heavy towing will not heal by just switching to Maxlife. SO when you are making such general statements and prescribing that Maxlife is the voodoo that heals symptomatic transmissions then we should really rest the case. No need to further drag this. Be happy with using Maxlife.

Even if that would be the case (we have no way of verifying it) it still has no basis to make such claim as MaxLife is suitable to be used in RDX. It could be but independent lab tests has shown otherwise. If you have scientific and independent sources recommending Maxlife as a preferred ATF for RDX then post it here and we read it.

 

I have not had these issues yet, but I sure would like to follow you posts just in case I do.

 

Keys to long long life of trans hard parts, clutches and bands:

A light accelerator foot.
Minimize, better yet eliminate, high rpm shifts
Full stops between forward and reverse shifting.
Trans Oil/filter changes every 25k with OEM oil.

But if the trans has a weak spot in design no matter what you do to service it, it may still go bad.
Most trans do have weak spots in design.

Instead of continuing to perfect the classic V6/5 speed, Honda like all the others would rather roll out a new design.

 

There's lots of documented "coincidences"...multiple in this thread alone, which is what I was pointing out.

Sharing personal experience and my conclusions is exactly what I've done and will continue to do so...nothing more and nothing less. In case you weren't aware...it's what these forums are for.

You've some fundamental inability to comprehend...nowhere have I expressed anyone "must" use MaxLife ATF or S-VCM Controller for that matter...in fact it's been the exact opposite. Read thru my posts in this thread or any other and please quote where I've expressed that sentiment. I've stated multiple times that MaxLife ATF (or S-VCM Controller) might not be for everyone...including expressing that directly to you.

Are you kidding? Big companies are woefully slow to react or admit liability...if ever. If this statement were correct...they'd be no class action lawsuits covering multiple years for the same problem. What major auto company? Job description?

As stated...it's my belief and conclusions based on 1st hand experience and the reported experience of many others. Nowhere have I stated that MaxLife ATF can cure a damaged or abused transmission...and for you to write that is pure hyperbole. What MaxLife ATF does help with in my experience is the "characteristic symptoms" a lot of these transmissions exhibit.

What independent lab tests have shown MaxLife ATF is not suitable for us in Honda transmissions? Valvoline which is one of the largest, most respected petro-chemical makers in the world says otherwise...and stands behind that position in writing.

I find this amusing coming from someone with such a credibility gap with the blatantly wrong statements and claims you've made in this thread and other. I will say this...at my age, with the number of kids I have and being brand loyal...it's not hard to roll up >500,000 miles.

 

Really? I don't think so. This is the exact quote from your previous post:

"My belief is that MaxLife ATF is at least as good as the OEM fluid and a superior pairing for these Honda transmissions...if the transmission is symptomatic."

I guess others have already figured out who is producing BS by reading their posts.

As a starter see the lab analysis about Honda's OEM and Maxlife chemical content posted in previous posts. Now, we are still waiting for you to come up with a lab test that proves Maxlife is more suitable than OEM ATF.

If that soothes you then

 

Reading for comprehension is fundamental. Nowhere in this thread and nowhere in any of my quotes will you find the words MaxLife ATF cures "damaged" or "abused" transmissions (to include the above quote). Context is everything and the context of this thread (and any thread where I've discussed MaxLife ATF) is there's plenty of "unharmed/normal" Honda transmissions which are symptomatic and MaxLife has cured those symptoms for more than a few folks like myself.

The conslusions of the analysis you cite is the opinion of it's author...see "commentary & opinion." This "analysis" contains only elemental, trace metal and viscosity measurements...what is conspicuously absent and the "real tell of the tape" IMO, is friction modifiers and any other proprietary compounds or the base oil itself for that matter. Nothing demonstrates the weakness of this analysis more than the conclusion of the author that Honda Z-1 and DW-1 are "essentially the same" based on the chemical signature of this incomplete analysis.

Is MaxLife ATF equivalent (chemically) to DW-1? Nope...and no one is making that claim. Is MaxLife ATF "suitable for use" in Honda / Acura transmissions with the exception of their CVTs? Absolutely...despite the opinion of the author of this incomplete analysis. Take a look at MaxLife ATF's PI sheet...one of the largest petro-chemical makers in the world stands behind that recommendation in writing. That and successful results are good enough for me and plenty of other MaxLife ATF users. If that's not good enough for you...then by all means, don't use MaxLife ATF in your Acura.

 

Your two statements summarizes it all:

First one: My belief is that MaxLife ATF is at least as good as the OEM fluid

Second one: Is MaxLife ATF equivalent (chemically) to DW-1? Nope...and no one is making that claim.

If you don't see how contradictory you are then stick to your Maxlife but I think lot of people around here are wise enough not to buy your opinion.

 

And yet we have another comprehension disconnect...

It is my belief that MaxLife ATF is at least as good as the OEM fluid in its application and performance in Honda transmissions.

Because something is not (chemically) equivalent does not imply inferior. It means...it's just...not the same. That's why one of the largest and most respected petro-chemical makers in the world doesn't claim equivalency, but states MaxLife ATF is suitable to use in (non-CVT) Honda transmissions...and backs up that "stands behind statement" in writing. My >500,000 miles and counting of experience with MaxLife ATF is completely in agreement with Valvoline's claims...so yes, I will stick with MaxLife ATF.

 

Either you simply don't get it or deliberately want to play ignorant. Whatever Valvoline says is not a license to use their oils in transmissions. Big companies have all the marketing and profit incentives to make advertisements for their products. Coolant, power steering, and transmissions are critical parts that need specific liquids according to specific engineering metrics of the component. Generic oils may be a substitute for the OEM where there is limited access to such oils but the right way is to use the OEM oils not generic ones.

As much as you like to drag this BS in this tread, as I mentioned before stick toy you MaxLife but don't encourage or make general blanket statements that others should do that because "Maxlife has remedied problems with Acura transmission!".

Should we say more or this is enough?

 

The only one in this thread who "doesn't get it" is you. I have come to the conclusion however, that when it comes to ignorance...you're not playing. Your posts in this thread more than adequately demonstrate that.

Actually, it is exactly that. When Valvoline makes a suitable for use statement for a particular application and backs that with a guarantee in writing...nuff said. Would Honda / Acura agree? Probably not...not when they want to sell you their expensive ATF that is actually inferior in my experience and the experience of many others. BTW...you're aware that Honda / Acura doesn't produce their own fluids. Correct?

Big companies just like Honda / Acura which have a monetary interest in convincing you that only their proprietary fluid is suitable for their transmissions and you must purchase that fluid from a single source...them, Honda / Acura. Purchasing a product which in my experience and opinion is inferior to MaxLife ATF for the application.

I'll say again. I've used MaxLife ATF in Honda / Acura transmissions to the tune of >500,000 mile and YES...I will continue to stick with MaxLife ATF thank you.

Despite the curious animus you have for one expressing their experience and opinions for a given product...I will continue to post my experience with and opinion of MaxLife ATF when and where I deem appropriate. Further...I've never said anyone else "should" use MaxLife ATF. In fact I've mentioned to you several times now that MaxLife ATF clearly is not for you and you should not use it. In this thread and elsewhere, I've merely posted my experience and opinion...if you don't like that...sorry, you'll just have to get over it.

MaxLife ATF has remedied those characteristic AT symptoms for myself and many others...not sure why that fact is such a trigger for you.

That would be entirely up to you bro...

 

I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to educate the ignorant. Despite all the evidence people on this thread have posted you single handedly insist on false claims. If I were a moderator I would perma-ban people like you who spread false info on public forums and call it expressing opinion.

 

I know for a fact that you have proven not to be able to absorb any education, nevertheless I post this video and I hope others watch it and don't trap in your BS of "context" and "comprehension".

 

Funny...I came to that conclusion after your 1st response.

I guess it's a good thing this forum doesn't allow myopic no-nothings to be moderators. Regardless...if what you propose were the case, I would've been banned after my 1st post on this forum for relating my experience and opinion about MaxLife ATF...and the S-VCM Controller.

Geez...I'm actually a little embarrassed for you. How funny you decide to post a video of an aftermarket (Amsoil) shill...check out his shirt and check out his website: The Lube Page He's an Amsoil distributor. Are you going to put Amsoil ATF in your Acura?

I'll save everyone else from wasting 22 minutes of their life. What's been posted here is an advertisement for Amsoil...nowhere does he say to use OEM ATF in general and nowhere does he say to use Honda / Acura fluid specifically. In fact, below are the products he'd like you to buy for your Honda / Acura transmission (instead of OEM fluid):

Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

Take a look at the labeling of this product...looks a lot like the labeling applications for...that's right...MaxLife ATF.

Or

Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

The labeling on this one is even less specific...North American, European and Asian Vehicles.

I find it further ironic that someone so fanatical about OEM products has started another thread asking about aftermarket TB kits. Here's a tip for you...go Aisin or OEM...but don't go cheap. The water pumps in the aftermarket kits are known to be leakers after about 6 months. You're welcome.

 

Jesus. Can some mod lock this thread already?

 

Second that. We've had enough of this guy's BS.