skywalker168

My understanding is that RDX AWD system is identical to CR-V's, which looks pretty bad in this review:

2015 Honda CR-V performs poorly in Swedish AWD test [w/video] - Autoblog

Question is, how does this roller test truly represent real snow/icy condition. Nevertheless, sure we all miss the SH-AWD in the old generation.

SMMN

One of the commenters in Leftlane News said this:

"I think, but I'm not 100% sure, that the RDX uses the larger AWD system from the Ridgeline/Pilot. I'm saying that because the RDX uses the V6, and the CRV's AWD system would not handle that engine (especially considering that even Honda admits it can't even handle the 2.4). That AWD system has a much larger rear differential, larger axle shafts, and a heavier-duty transfer case using its own fluid, separate from the transmission fluid (the CR-V has a tiny little transfer case that shares fluid with the transmission, and axle shafts not much thicker than a finger)."

rosen39

To tell you the truth, it works and is quiet. Last winter the RDX performed flawlessly in the snow and ice. No complaints here.

Comfy

The answer would be to do a similar roller test for the RDX. Anyway the actual snow driving results may differ. Anyone who has the parts information can confirm the differences from CRV.

geocord

Just because a system is more robust doesn't mean it works better. Having said that, I think the RDX AWD works very, very good. I compare it to my many years driving in snow in my old Infiniti QX4 which had AWD, 4WD, 4WDLo and my RDX actually does better than any either the AWD or 4WD did in the QX4(basically a Nissan Pathfinder).

HotRodW

The AWD system is the primary reason I don't have an RDX in my garage. I find it particularly troubling that Honda says the system is intentionally designed this way. From LLN ...

"The behavior is blamed on torque limits for the rear differential, which is said to be "lightweight and fuel efficient" but prone to overheating if it is run continuously in such an extreme torque-split scenario."

Can it even be called AWD if power can't effectively be transferred to all wheels? Even if it did transfer power as other systems do, which Honda says it can be reprogrammed to do, what good is an AWD system if it can't be used in slippery conditions without overheating?

skywalker168

Good idea. Here is the parts diagram for RDX rear differential:

Acura Parts @ AcuraAutomotiveParts.org - Genuine Acura OEM Parts from Acura Carland

and 2014 CR-V:

REAR DIFFERENTIAL - MOUNT (1) Honda OEM Parts -- 2014 HONDA CR-V for 5DR EX (AWD) - Automatic

RDX differential carrier assembly: 41200-R8D-010
CRV differential carrier assembly: 41200-R7L-010

Not identical but same list price. Some parts like motor assembly in RDX 48900-R7L-023 is also used in 2013 CR-V. Other shared parts like 48656-R7L-003 is a good indication RDX and CRV use same size gears.

kareshi

damn.. time to go back to 1st gen RDX

Comfy

I don't think many over here bought their RDX because of AWD prowess. And none I believe is going serious offroading with this vehicle. We all bought it because it is a nice upscale SUV with a luxury feel and value for money. The available AWD is just another added useful feature in winter driving and light offroading. The current RDX does a lot of things better than the competition and the 1st gen RDX. There is absolutely no chance I would trade it for a 1st Gen RDX just because it has better AWD capability. For those who want an awesome AWD vehicle, there's always the Jeep wrangler .

Gta-rdx

Well said

HotRodW

You're mistaken if you don't think the AWD system makes a difference on road, too. For those of us that have to drive on snow and ice frequently, a good AWD system (combined with winter tires of course) can make a significant difference. Possibly a life saving difference. Even on wet or dry roads it benefits handling and stability. Maybe there aren't a lot of RDX owners that purchased the car specifically for its AWD prowess, but I promise you there are some that went elsewhere due to its lack of it. I think it's fair to be disappointed knowing Acura has developed one of the best systems in the industry, but chooses not to offer it on a $40k vehicle. Unfortunately for Acura, the Wrangler isn't the only other option when it comes to AWD capability.

Comfy

Your point is well taken sir, but I did mention winter driving. Unless you live in the snow belt and / or hilly regions, AWD is not even necessary for regular driving (applies to majority of US). What I'm saying is that AWD is only "one" of the factors which made us buy the RDX. Does the competing vehicles do "everything" better than the RDX? If yes then they are a true competitor and RDX will surely lose customers to them. Very few vehicles are that impressive at the price point of RDX. Yes it'll be awesome if Acura offers the SHAWD on RDX; we'd love it even more. May be they'll do it in the coming MMY upgrade who knows....
Its nice to have differing points of view.

ceb

AWD - traction to all four wheels will help you get up hills, possibly help you get motivated on flat slippery surfaces but will NOT help you steer or stop.

The real trick to braking and handling improvements is in the tires.

SH-AWD is a gimmick that looks great on paper and the lab. It will provide some advantages at "at the limits" handling, but provides no real advantages in day-to-day driving.

The AWD in the RDX (and this coming from an owner of 4Matic, xDrive, quattro and SH-AWD) is quite sufficient for anything that mother nature throws at you assuming that you use proper rubber and a bit of common sense. Lacking the proper rubber and the common sense you are screwed no matter what you drive.

Get a grip guys (pun intended)

ceb

The CR-V is very competent vehicle. What is wrong with raiding the corporate parts bin for top quality stuff? The RDX is head and shoulders above the 2013/14 CR-V in terms of fit and finish and materials and differentiates itself by different engines and amenities - not to mention that the RDX looks better.

HotRodW

"SH-AWD is a gimmick that looks great on paper and the lab. It will provide some advantages at "at the limits" handling, but provides no real advantages in day-to-day driving."

No gimmick at all. Good AWD systems transfer power as needed - not just front/back but left/right as well. Acura's SH-AWD is particularly good at making sure power goes where it will do the most good, and that includes improving handling in the dry (see below). When it comes to driving in snow, nothing is more important than the tires. But even the best snow tire can't help move a car on slick surfaces if it isn't getting power.

SH-AWD explained (objectively) ...


System demo in extreme conditions (objectivity unknown) ...

loulinjai

Both the CRV and RDX have a "true" AWD system (they are essentially the same). I have witnessed first hand that this is generally a very poor AWD system even for urban use.

I saw a RDX with winter tires waiting for a green light on a ~3% slope....As you can guess the front tires were on packed ice that's typical of intersections. When the light was green, all I saw was the front tires spin...it looks like no usable torque was transferred to the rear where there were bare patches to the ground. Most AWD systems can transfer 50% or more of available engine torque to either axle, it's clearly this system does not do that.

If the vehicle wasn't in such extreme conditions the AWD would be helpful.

ceb

Rod. Like I said, it looks great on paper and in the lab but on the average commute (where we all drive 99% of the time) it brings no benefit. SH-AWD is no magic bullet that makes an F1 driver out of the average Joe, nor will it keep you out of a ditch with summer tires in the snow.

My sister went from two RL's (a 2005 and a 2010) to a 2012 TSX. I gave her an old set of winter tires I had from my TSX last winter and she commented about how much better the TSX handled in the snow.

The normal driver will reap no benefit from SH-AWD - just like the average Audi driver will reap no benefits from the torque vectoring quattro that they spent a couple of grand on.

HotRodW

I guess that's why we don't agree on the issue ... I don't consider myself an average driver. I want Acura to be a brand that appeals to enthusiasts as well as what you refer to as 'normal drivers'. For the most part the MDX does that pretty well, it's just too big.

rosen39

I'm with Ceb on this one. My daughter has an Audi A4 Quattro, and with the all-season tires, this car was all over the place in snow. We bought a set of Blizzaks mounted on rims, and the car went through the snow and slush all winter long without skidding. Sending traction to a wheel that still cannot grip is useless. The technology of winter tire compounds and tread design is the answer.

ceb

My point was that the RDX AWD system will suffice for most situations and is far better than FWD.

As far as AWD systems are concerned, SH-AWD is very advanced - just like the optional quattro systems. Their benefits are largely unused.

The RDX system will do what most consumers expect it to do at a fraction of the price. Most US consumers will never buy a set of winter tires and SH-AWD and the RDX AWD will slide around with the best of them.

HotRodW

There is no disagreement over the benefit of dedicated winter tires. I specifically commented on that point in my earlier posts. If forced to choose, I would rather have FWD with winters than AWD with all-seasons. Audi's quattro is one of the better AWD systems available, so those Blizzaks are far more effective on the A4 (or TLX) than they would be on the RDX because of the better AWD system. In short, I want a sophisticated AWD AND the best tires for the condition. If the system benefits handling on dry roads, too, as SH-AWD does, all the better.

geocord

God, what a bunch of wusses. The AWD system on the RDX is fine. Chicago had one of the worse winters in twenty years last year and I got around everywhere just fine with all-season tires. Whoever said that no power is transferred to the rear tires is just full of it. I can start to spin my tires on wet pavement going around a corner and immediately feel the rear tires bite and "push" the car through the corner. Is a super duper AWD system with dedicated snow tires the absolute best for severe winter conditions? Sure, but unless you live in the sticks in snow country you don't need them. Nice to have and absolutely necessary are two very different things. Very few people with or without AWD swap out all-seasons for winter tires. Not driving around thinking one is Mario Andretti helps a bunch too, especially in the winter.

HotRodW

If protecting my family and being a responsible driver makes me a wuss, I'm happy to wear the title. Btw, the Chicago area got 80" of snowfall last year. We got nearly 10'. And I logged about 10,000 miles between November and March in all sorts of weather. I think the title "Idiot" would have to replace "Wuss" on my name badge if I attempted to do that without a capable vehicle and winter tires.

Maybe to further prove your manhood you should try RWD with racing slicks this winter?

geocord

Guess you don't recognize humor up in the far north. Everyone is so serious up there I guess with all the dark cold days. I grew up with RWD in Michigan and did use snow tires back then. One reason was because they didn't even have radial tires let alone all-season tires. Just good old bias ply and we seemed to live through the Michigan winters. Usually when someone describes themselves as an enthusiast and has a screen name of hotrod one naturally assumes they drive a little more on the faster side of normal.

All kidding aside, if I lived in an area that got that much snow I would probably go with a Jeep with snows. That's kind of what I was referring to when I mentioned that someone that lives in the sticks and gets tons of snow really does need the best in AWD and tires. The other 95% do just spiffy with the RDX AWD and all-seasons.

Please don't talk about manhood. It's pretty childish.

HotRodW

And name calling isn't?

ceb

Children, children....

I'm always amused at those people who say " I don' need no stinkin' snow tires, I walked to school 7 miles each day, uphill both ways, in the snow".

Driving skills don't get around the laws of physics. The best driver cannot overcome lack of traction.

The guys who don't need snow tires either don't drive when the chili gets greasy or they drive on well plowed roads.

Most of us have driven on snow in cars with summer or all-season tires and most of us have survived. That doesn't mean it was smart or safe - it just means we were lucky.

My "aha" moment came twice - once when I parked my Ford on a slight incline and felt (with some horror) as my car slid backwards down the hill. That was with all seasons, so I bought winter tires. My next epiphany came many years later when I had my Typhoon. I didn't need winters because I had AWD. After an ice storm, I pulled out of the parking lot and proceeded to (ever so slowly) slide into the curb about 50 ft from my apartment building. I spent the next 20 minutes getting my car back into the parking lot and found a neighbor who had AWD AND snow tires. We waited for the sun to come up and the salt to start working and drove to work.

Yes, you can survive perfectly without snows, but you will have your share of white knuckle moments and those "I'm glad there wasn't a car there" events.

If you have the luxury of being able to stay home during bad weather or can adjust your drive times to accommodate plows and less traffic then run your all-season tires. Just ask yourself this: Is it cheaper to buy snows or cheaper to pay my deductible and incur a bunch of waiting? Are my health insurance premiums paid up?

Comfy

Well said. Bottom line is that winter tires are worth more than any superior AWD capability. The only problem is the need to store an extra set of tires throughout the year.

ceb

Wheels make awesome living room wall decorations.

rosen39

Storage problem solved:

Heavy-Duty Wall Mounted Tire Storage Rack - Garage Accessories - In Your Garage - Griot's Garage

ceb

Tirerack and other places sell the same rack - but - be careful where you mount it.

In my last house, I mounted them above the garage doors. Great place because they were out of the way. I worried about interference with the garage doors and what not but forgot to consider that tires on wheels are fairly heavy and that I'd need a ladder to get them down and up. In my new house I'm putting them against the back wall, well above the hood of any SUV I might buy but still below shoulder level.

McMilli501

Pardon? You mean in Florida, right?

geocord

You live in Canada, your perspective is limited. I would probably use snows if I lived up there as well. I know of nobody in my neighborhood or any of my relatives that use snow tires. In the Chicago area very few people use them. Like I said before, if you live in a rural area or in one that gets tons of snow they are worth the hassle. But in most metropolitan areaso in the U.S. the number of times they are really needed are few and extra care and slowing down is easier than the hassle of changing out tires and storing them especially for households with 2,3 or even 4 vehicles.

I don't think anybody disputes the advantages of snow tires but only whether they are absolutely necessary to get around in most areas. I commuted to work in Chicago area for 30 years during rush hour. The winters of 78/79 were especially brutal. 6 hour commutes at times. Front wheel drive with all seasons all those years with no ditches or accidents. Guess I was just extremely lucky and cautious.

ceb

It only takes one time to make the tires more than pay for themselves.

It is just that "we don' need no stinkin' snow tires" attitude that caused much of Europe and some Canadian provinces to mandate winter tires.

Your 6 hour commute wouldn't have been that long had those folks that ran into ditches, guardrails and other cars been using snow tires.

McMilli501

Ok. So because I am gullible and happen to live in an igloo I believe, as you said, very few Americans buy winter tires

loulinjai

That gave me a chuckle, You're right if you're in a climate that receives relatively little snowfall, in some jurisdictions winter tires are mandatory.

YeuEmMaiMai

I had the experience of driving an RDX in a foot of snow the previous winter and this is my opinion:

It's not a Subaru so if you are expecting it to drive like one in the snow, you are going to be sorely disappointed. The AWD systems are two totally different implementations and have different operating characteristics.

It will initially slide around like a FWD car until enough slip is detected and it engages the AWD and then it straightens right up and drives just fine usually getting you out of the snow. My advice is to drive it like you would a FWD car. I was overall extremely satisfied with the drive in the deep stuff keeping the above limitation in mind and I had no issues. Also I got the impression that if you did get stuck, the RDX would NOT be able to dig it's self out..

and yes, the AWD system employed in the RDX is the one lifted right out of the CR-V, that is straight from the horse's mouth (Honda).

Comfy

Thanks for that real life perspective.

YeuEmMaiMai

^ I really like the RDX, it's got everything I would ever need in a SUV of that size and I have it on my short list of cars to buy... and yes it was a foot of snow that caught everyone off guard as they thought it was going to shift well north of the twin cities metro area

if you want a quick SUV that is nice to be in and can lend you a helping hand in occasional snow storms, the RDX is it but if you live somewhere that gets a crapload of snow and they are slow to plow, you might want to consider another option

BTW, on a Subaru the 4cyl models are biased FWD (60-40 but can send power where it needs to go) and the H6 models are biased RWD (45-55 or 40-60 I can't remember but again can send power where it needs to go) so they do behave slightly different in the snow.

IMHO the RDX should have kept SHAWD as it would have made a WORLD of difference

ceb

But would the majority of buyers know or care? The majority of owners will leave AS tires on and no amount of driven wheels can help with that.

Comfy

It's best that Acura gives the SHAWD as an upgrade option in RDX. That way it will get the broadest range of customers and satisfy the enthusiasts as well. Yes it does increase the complexity of decision making for some.....