allenn

I think we need to get Honda's attention in the failed tranny problem. If Honda does not come up with a permanent solution for the over heating tranny, we all take a hit at resell time.

You may register at this website for the tranny class action suit.


http://www.bigclassaction.com/class_action/acura.html

Dead-Fox

How about for those of us who haven't had a problem -knock on wood- yet?

allenn

If you have a five speed auto, you will have a failure sooner or later.

Dead-Fox

yup- again.. knock on wood.. but until then, I don't think I can join your class action suit.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

This isn't really going to go anywhere.

Acura extended the drivetrain warranty to 7 yrs / 100k miles at no charge to everyone with an effected tranny.

Then, on top of that... even though failure rates are only around 5-7% (yes, that's still too high, but it's not everyone.. I know plenty of people with high miles that have had zero problems, and from the 13k or so CL members I could probably give you 12.5k usernames who are fine) they VOLUNTARILY recalled every single car that could potentially have a problem. They are in the process right now of fixing every tranny... they're just doing it 300k cars at a time so the dealers don't get overwhelmed.

So they've done everything they should have done. They could have acted a little quicker, but other then that, they're on the ball.

What are you actually looking to gain by doing something like this? Someone tried something like this before the recall and got no where, now that Acura stepped up you're not going to have a leg to stand on with this.

I wouldn't wasted any of your time and/or money on this....

momentum3.2

You haven't been ripped off. you haven't had to pay for a transmission, have you? Machines break. Honda has applied a fix. Welcome to the last 3 years.

And you took a hit in the gut when you drove the car new off the lot. That's when your resell value plummets. All luxury cars lose resell values, fact of life.

Draiden

momentun3.2

I agree with you, to a point... Unfortunately, Acura seems to be failing to fully support an issue that is obviously a defect in their product. I am now on my 3rd tranny. Is it reasonable to expect that the first one last 60k and the second last 40k? If Acura wants us to continue giving them our loyalty, they need to show some in return. My last tranny went out at 101k miles. I greatly appreciate that they extended the warranty to 100k. However, their failure to support me at just 1000 miles over the mark was inexcusable.

I expect my car to break. I expect my car to depreciate. But, I expect it to be from "normal" use, not a defect that they have failed to properly repair. I personally know 3 people with CLs and 1 with a TL - all 2001. All 4 of them have had their tranny replaced at least once.

allenn

Could it be you are a little more liberal with you expectations? I have been purchasing Honda vehicles since 1978. I have owned several Accords, currently have a '99 V6, and an '89 Integra. None of these autos have been the trouble that the 2001 CL-S has been. I find very little value in visiting any dealer for warranty service. I lose time and wages when I do. I purchased the 2001 CL-S based on my previous experience with Honda service and reliability. Never had to deal with a major recall. None of my other Honda cars have ever broken down in the midst of a Friday rush hour in Atlanta, GA. And none of these cars took over a week to repair. This is my opinion, and I respect yours; so let's agree that we don't agree. Have a nice day!

That Girl

Well ....I see they have been trying for 4 years to solve this problem..yes they extended a warrenty for the transmission ...

Note ..I saw a HONDA COMMERCIAL That stated 7yr/100,000 warrenty for the TRANNY... ! They are actually using it as a SELLING FEATURE? Or do they have to do that???? ?


The thing is this ... These unresolved defect's and I say un-resolved wether it be due to ( Can't figure out the problem) Or whatever the cause is an issue ( RECALL- extended warrenty- NEW modifications- all they ahve tried ) Has been going on 4 years ..YES theyare all a SAFETY issue ...and that's the biggest concern....you just can't let a safety issue go un-resolved ...the problem has never been fixed..yes they have tried ...and none has worked.......... So you know what .................

How could this go on for so long ..the safety issue ? They should have taken the whole transmission OFF the market ..temporarily ...find an OUTSIDE vendor ( Temporarily ) use the vendor's tranny's till the issue was solved.......... A car that locks up on the highway at speeds of 70 MPH is a dangerous situation and has caused accident's with injurie's ..

No auto defect that has the scenario of stalling -sudden stops on highway's due to tranny locking up -loss of control of your car because tranny locks up ..I could go on with the scenario's ...The point is NO CO. Could allow that type of defect to exist for ANY length of time ..but we have seen it go on for 4 year's.


I do feel for HONDA tough ..I can only imagine their frustration ..If I owned a CO. and had a problem with one part of the car ( TRanny) Such an important part ....that could and has created safety issue's and could not resolve it ...for this long ..I'd be highly upset...


But doe's HONDA care bout the people who have already been injured ? I don't belive they did before............... They might care now 4 years later when they see how many have been injured ..but could they have stopped some of those injurie's from happening by PULLING that PRODUCT off the shelf......replacing with a WHOLE new untill the problem was atleast 98% resolved?


Yes it is a difficult issue ....... so I do agree on both sides ...


The main problem is the TIME FRAME.. just as you said JuniorBean .... Could they have ,should they have taken more drastic measure's sooner?


Yes ..when people's lives are at risk ...



YES ...SOONER better then (AFTER THE FACT)....

aclura

You will have a whole new perspective when yours locks up at 70mph, I did.

momentum3.2

1) do a search, you'll see that I too am on my third transmission

2) nobody has died or has lost control of their car do to this transmission issue. the transmission slips gears and ultimate renders itself useless, it does not stick in gear, force you to accelerate and lose control of your car. it essentially turns into a slushbox, which is what happened to me, twice.

3) no, and I mean not a single manufacturer, has the resources to pull every single car they sold in a model line and replace the entire transmission at once. Hell, Ford couldn't even recall every single explorer at once and replace the tires.

The point is, when every acura CL owner's tranny has died, the dealership has immediately replaced it. they have never questioned it and asked you to pay for it. Now that the recall is in place, they are voluntarily replacing transmissions BEFORE they break. I don't know about you but I was given a loaner both times. Shit, I get a loaner when I have my oil changed.

A lawsuit isn't going to solve shit. This isn't a conspiracy at Acura to screw the CL owners. Suing Acura/Honda is only going to draw more mud and get you nowhere. Not only that, even if a judge took it to trial, it would be years before a settlement/verdict was reached.

F900

"Not only that, even if a judge took it to trial, it would be years before a settlement/verdict was reached"

And thats the thing, by then most people will have traded in there Acura and moved on.

Most Classactions take years to get a result, and also lawyers dont work for free, so how are these lawyers going to be compensated, and if i'm not mistaken that firm has been on going with trying to get people signed up for aleast a year.

I was mad at 1st about the whole tranny issue, just like you i wanted out, since march of this year when i got my CLS i have driven over 16000miles, i was hoping to keep the CLS for the term of my loan (60months) but i know way before i get there, i will be well over 100K. 1 replacement tranny later 3ECUs and a bunch of other silly problems, i'm just going to enjoy the time i have the car, try and sell the car private party (limit my loss) when its time and move on.

allenn

In the mean time, I think a class action will force Honda to mediate a settlement which I hope includes a lifetime transferable warranty on tranny including no limits on normal wear and tear. This would stop the lost $$$ on resell, because the next owner has nothing to lose. It is possible that this will not help current owners, but it will get Honda's attention and possibly modify how they handle these problems in the future.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Keep in mind the recall just happened earlier this year, so if you haven't received your letter and you're affected, then you will probably be getting it soon since they're doing them in blocks.

Also keep in mind it's only been happening for 2 1/2 to 3 years, not 4 (started on 2002 models which were released in early to mid-2001 for the CL, mid to late 2001 for the TL). I know it's still a long time... but details like that need to be accurate in a class action suit.

Again, realize that you need to figure out what exactly you're looking for out of this. If you haven't paid for a tranny replacement, then you have no leg to stand on. The only people who have a case are the few who can prove they were involved in tranny related accidents.... and there have only been 2 or 3 that I have read about on here (and that's between 30k or so members on CL and TL), they happened over a year ago, possibly more... and they have since been resolved.

Bottom line is that I've seen this (class actions) try to be organized twice before, once before the tranny extension, and once after (but both before the recall)... and neither of them went anywhere. So now that the voluntary recall is being done, there's no point in doing a class action suit since there's nothing you'll get out of it.

Trust me, Honda/Acura's lawyers are many, many steps ahead and they have all of their bases covered. You wouldn't even make it to court.

Oh and your resale is screwed for several other reasons.... it's a coupe.. and it's a discontinued model. Most regular folks don't even know of the tranny issue, and as long as you get the recall performed before you sell it...it should not have any affect on your resale.

aclura

Acura's costumers will remedy this situation. Question-Would you by another Acura? They are using the same transmissions.

sukinsyn

My 2001 CL transmission went out when the car had 1400 miles on it. (BTW, they gave me a Kia as a loaner for the 2.5 weeks they had my car)

That time the car was sitting in the garage and just wouldn't go into gear when I tried to shift.

The second time the transmission went out my car had 22,000 miles on it. That was in May of 2004.

I was merging onto a busy highway on-ramp. As my car took on the qualities of Satan (I seriously thought it was possesed the way it acted!) and as I fought to control my suddenly out of control auto, I tried to steer to the right to avoid hitting the autos rushing by me.

My car was accelerating and decelerating all on it's own. I tried to brake and it accelerated. As I hit the gas pedal to counter the braking action of the car, it started braking....very, very hard....all on it's own.

I was going approximately 55 MPH when it started happening and was up to 85 MPH at the peak when the car started braking. I thought I was going to die.

I finally got the car towards the berm and somehow got it to stop. I was screaming at the car to stop with both feet on the brake. It finally did come to a stop, but not without a fight.

I don't know how I made it alive.

I was steering through traffic, which luckily was light that day, plus, it was just at 5:00 pm.

When I called Acura Road Side Assistance, they said maybe it was the transmission....sounds like what they had heard before!!!

This time my car was in for over three weeks and I got a Dodge Ram 4 Wheel drive Pick up truck...extended cab as a loaner. It cost $45.00 just to fill it up.

Thank you Acura.

Thank you for the service people who ignored me when I brought it in and explained that the car was *revving*, seemingly on it's own and would change gears....all with me doing nothing but going 45 MPH....

Thank you for ignoring me and telling me it could not be replicated.

Now it's doing it again...And it only has 24,000 miles on it.

I am really glad my lease up in the next 60 days. Only 60 days to wonder if the transmission is going to fail again...

allenn

sukinsyn,

You can blame your problems on the American made transmission. Too bad you don't have the Japanese trann. I hear they were better and never fail.

sukinsyn

allenn...you are right. My car was manufactured in Marysville, OH. Right up the street from where I live, in Columbus. :-( While Honda has created jobs here, they are definitely doing something wrong. They need to do a little more training perhaps...?

NJTypeS

Look on the window sticker. the car was made in Ohio. the transmission is made in Japan.

allenn

I too thought it was made in Japan, but I now see that I was incorrect, see this post

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=13.

As you can see at this link the experts on the country of origin are EricL and Dead-Fox. According to them, the window sticker is mistaken and the transmission is made in USA. Oh, my original tranny serial number indicates it was manufactured in Japan, but that too is wrong.

That Girl

2) nobody has died or has lost control of their car do to this transmission issue. the transmission slips gears and ultimate renders itself useless, it does not stick in gear, force you to accelerate and lose control of your car. it essentially turns into a slushbox, which is what happened to me, twice.
************************************************** ********************************


"Momentum3.2 "


First of all you do NOT know if anyone has died as a result of transmission failure.

Yes people HAVE lost control of thier car' Car's due to transmission locking up. A user here named SHYNE ...had his car lock up then the engine stalled and he lost control of his car crashing into a rail of a bridge..T ( The car was totaled and he was in intensice are unit of hospital) the details are

sketchy ,but I did read this after having my accident and doing a search.




So ...just curious how you know the info you stated is true.... when I know otherwise.... And how you judge this to not be that serious of an issue ...let alone a safety issue.......

If you were the one injured ...you'd not make statment's like this.

aclura

The first time I read the senerio, I didn't believe it, then it happened to me. It will get your attention.

ryanG007

first how are we gonna know if someone died because of there transimission, what are they gonna do...come here and post it afterwards...and i for one dont feel safe driving my car especially on a long trip...thats not right and we should be compensated some way for being sold an unsafe vehicle...it comes down to a safety issue

That Girl

Exactly ..How would anyone know if a tranny failure killed someone ,unless someone lived through the accident!


I am driving an 04tl ..it had some some symtoms over a month ago of tranny failure..could not be duplicated .. I took the car in for recall last week, hoping that would insure me if it were to have any problems...... I took the car on an 80 mile trip yesterday ,scared to death on the interstate ,because you just never know when the car may lock up ...it is an anxiety filled state driving this car ...

So while driving throgh heavy traffic after getting off the interstate ...3 different times while going about 45mph .....I pushed the gas to accelerate speed and it's like it would not go into the nxt gear..... No jerkiness though...no oise ,just acted like it did not want to go .... Drove it back home later and no other problem.s ...I never had any warning sign's of my 2 failure's in my 03tl .... The car simply locked up on highway ...drasticly while traveling at high speed.... So maybe these are the warning's that people had expierienced before ....some people at the borad here said I MUST have had warning signs when my other car did this ..But I assure you I had NO warning...I only hope this is not the beginning of the end of this transmission!

BobbyDangler

It is correct to say a class action suite may take a bit of time. But, that hardly suggests that one should sell their car and move on. Below is a link to a thread with some details on the Lemon Law.

If I were in Draidens position where my tranny went out at 101K and I had to pay for a new tranny I would be very heated, to say the least. The good part of that situation is that you could still sue under the Lemon Law and get most of the money that you paid for your unreliable car and the money you spent on getting that tranny fixed.

Momentum- Everyone knows your car value drops when you purchase a car, that is common sense and not relevent. What is relevant is that when a cars' value drops considerably because the reviews about that vehicle tell a story of transmission problems and freeway lockups, people tend to shy away from purchasing such an unrealiable vehicle, thus lowering the resale value. I know I would have not purchased this car if this info. was available. Who would intentionally purchase a car which is guaranteed to fail?

Of course people expect to have minimal mechanical problems when purchasing a car, that is why your investment is protected with a warranty. But isn't this slightly outside the scope of a minimal problem? Honda/ Acura has a fantastic reputation for reliability, that is why consumers purchase their vehicles. However, with the CL their reputation is rivaling Hyundai whose tranny's are probably holding up better. I replaced 4 tranny's on my car and I am only at 65K. I wouldn not have expected one tranny to go out until over 200K like most of their products would imply. Who would keep this car over 100K? I think Draiden's example shows what could happen to any one of us?


Anyways, if you are interested there is a lot of specific details in the post below about the lemon law.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153380

momentum3.2

you have got to be fucking kidding me.

First, the physics behind a transmission. If a transmission were to seize, it would require ZERO oil inside the slushbox. That is the only way for all gears to lock into place which would require the torque converter to shatter at the engine's flywheel thus causing engine RPM's to skyrocket until you take your foot off the gas, which, under hectic circumstances would be immediate. your vehicle would then roll to a stop, if you did nothing, or you could use your brakes, since they are not controlled by the transmission. If you were unable to stop your car or had a panic attack because of the abnormal behavior of your car, then yes you might crash into something or cause an accident HOWEVER that is due to the fact that you were unable to react properly to an abnormal situation, not due to Acura.

Secondly, IF someone had died from the loss of vehicular control, the NHTSA would have uncovered this during their investigation. And that investigation is here: (also a sticky in this forum)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98260

ODI RESUME

Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
Products: MY 2000-2003 ACURA 3.2 TL/3.2 CL
Population 295026

Problem Description:

THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION MAY SUDDENLY SHIFT FROM FIFTH GEAR TO SECOND GEAR, CAUSING MOMENTARY VEHICLE DECELERATION; OR DISENGAGE FULLY, CAUSING LOSS OF MOTIVE POWER

Here are some totals:

Complaints: 165
Crashes/Fires: 2
Injury Incidents: 5
# Injuries: 6
Fatality Incidents: 0
# Fatalities: 0
Other*: 2

*Description of other: ALLEGED LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL INCIDENTS

SUMMARY REPORT

In addition to the 165 complaints noted in the Failure Report Summary, American Honda Motor Company (AHM) reported related repairs made under Regular and Goodwill warranty terms, as well as repairs made under a warranty extension program started by AHM in October 2002 (Service Bulletin 02-027). The reported numbers are shown in Table 1 (table not shown).


On October 31, 2002 AHM presented to ODI the findings and results of their investigations into the five-speed automatic transmission used in the subject vehicles. The presentation discussed in the detail the cause of the premature transmission failures, a failure mode where an unprompted and unexpected downshift into second gear could occur, the incidence of this failure mode, and the impact of its failure mode on the operation and control of the vehicle. AHM described its warranty extension program, which extends coverage to 7 years and 100,000 miles. At the conclusion of the presentation, a specially prepared vehicle, which AHM represented could demonstrate the sudden downshift condition on command, was assessed by ODI. The downshift phenomenon was simulated in the vehicle numerous times with a variety of drivers, road conditions, and combinations of throttle application and steering. The effect on vehicle speed and stability were observed to be minimal and of short duration (less than two seconds).

ODI has reviewed related VOQ complaints and AHM’s IR response data (received February 2003) to determine complaint, crash and injury counts. Of the two crash incidents alleged on VOQs, neither resulted in a claim of personal injury. One event was related to a transmission crash allegation could not be reached. AHM reported two loss-of-control incidents that caused minimal damage to the vehicle without personal injury. The five injury incidents reported appear to be related to sudden downshift events; none of the claims involve a crash. One event resulted in untreated neck/upper back pain, one in successfully treated neck/back pain and another in neck/back strains with ongoing treatment (medication). Another claimant who had a significant prior history of spinal problems remains under care for pain, the fifth incident claims unspecified injuries to the driver and possibly one occupant due to dashboard contact.

It is clear that multiple transmission quality issues exist in the subject vehicles. AHM has provided a detailed description of the failure mechanism, causal factors, and failure modes associated with these transmission issues and has implemented a warranty extension program to address consumer concerns.

Based on ODI’s analysis of the failure mode, a thorough analysis of ODI and AHM complaints and driving a vehicle rigged to simulate the alleged defect, a safety-related defect has not been identified at this time. According, this investigation is closed. The closing of the investigation does not constitute a finding by NHTSA that no safety-related defect exists. The agency will take further action if warranted by circumstances.




I've noticed that those of you who want a class-action lawsuit are new here. I would seriously invite you to search and read other threads regarding the transmission failures. Myself, among others, have already advised you of the fact that you have no leg to stand on. Do yourself a failure, hang this up. You purchased a vehicle, that vehicle has the possibility for a manufacturer defect, the manufacturer has voluntarily responded and requested you to bring your vehicle in to repair that defect, and has never asked you to pay a penny for it. What, in light of all of this, do you expect to receive IF you were to win the case?

Class Action lawsuits are won when the party responsible for the (term used VERY loosely) action does not appear to try to resolve the consequences of the action. For instance, the cigarette manufacturers failing to recognize the harms and dangers of smoking, and continuing to sell them/market them to a young crowd...OR...a cable company charging you for 'inside wire maintenance' when it is already covered by standard service agreements...OR...a vehicle manufacturer who fails to realize the dangers in cheapily made tires, failing to recall them and replace them & people lose lives because of the blowouts. Class Action lawsuits ARE NOT WON because the world owes me and I feel like I've been done wrong.

If you don't like the fact that AHM has an issue with the transmissions in a few of their vehicles, sell the car. I have 91,017 miles on my 2001 CL. Bought it brand farkin' new. I've had my transmission replaced twice, and I drove it today 207 miles to watch my football team play. I drive Birmingham to Atlanta very frequently. Last summer I drove it 600 miles a week between Louisville & Birmingham for 2 months working on a project. I am not scared of long distances as I have Insurance, Acura TLC, & AAA. If something were to happen, I'd call all three, get a rental, and carry on with my day as I don't let things like this break me.

However when I read things like

(who in their damn right mind will warrant a machine for life?)

and things like


(this was negated on 3/22/2003 when EricL posted the NHTSA report.)

it makes me want to

That Girl

you have got to be fucking kidding me.

First, the physics behind a transmission. If a transmission were to seize, it would require ZERO oil inside the slushbox. That is the only way for all gears to lock into place which would require the torque converter to shatter at the engine's flywheel thus causing engine RPM's to skyrocket until you take your foot off the gas, which, under hectic circumstances would be immediate. your vehicle would then roll to a stop, if you did nothing, or you could use your brakes, since they are not controlled by the transmission. If you were unable to stop your car or had a panic attack because of the abnormal behavior of your car, then yes you might crash into something or cause an accident HOWEVER that is due to the fact that you were unable to react properly to an abnormal situation, not due to Acura.
************************************************** *******************************


I don't care if there is a class action suit or not. My points about the dafety issue will not change and for good reason.

The person whom lost control of the Acura due to it locking up on the highway lost control because the engine shut down after the lock-up ..Think it CAN'T do that? I don't know personally ,but the person who it happened to stated that is WHAT occured.


Also many people have said NO WAY can you car lock up without warning signs ..My answer to this is a FACTUAL ..... " B.S " I know I have lived through an accident and can tell about it!

What are you saying here...ALL gears must lock at once for the tranny to lock-up ? If that's true ? I don't know ,but if true well guess what ...ALL MY GEARS LOCKED-UP !


I understood that the locking occured because of 3rd gear clutch pack as ERICL has described...


Also Honda's current recall is due to 2nd gear teeth chipping/breaking ,which can cause lock-up ...which is dangerous ,as dangerous as any lock-up whatever the CAUSE...


You know what momentum3.2 if your DOING good and you have no problem's GREAT FOR YOU...move out of this topic .


Do NOT tell me that the car can't LOCK UP..... The service tech who drove my car only 30mph stated he'd NEVER seen anything like it ...he said the car about through him through the winsheild .....Going only 30mph ..guess how fast I was going the FIRST time my car locked up.........atleast 70mph...


How would you like that?

How would you like that tranny to be replaced and think all is well and then it happens again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in lunch hour traffic ..having a car rear end you going 55 mph ! Taking off the whole back end of your car ...DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE... ?



I DO !


So you say ... * You must be F- ING kidding me*


I in-turn say to you!



NO -YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME...

That Girl

Moving quickly to satisfy Honda and Acura owners worried about transmission failures in their cars and minivans, American Honda Motor Co. said Friday that it would extend the transmission warranties on 1.2 million vehicles to seven years or 100,000 miles from the date of purchase.

The move comes after The Times reported Sept. 11 that the company, a unit of Honda Motor Co. of Japan, had replaced almost 16,000 four-and five-speed automatic transmissions during the last three years. Owners of the affected vehicles had complained of erratic shifting and in some cases spontaneous downshifting into low gears at highway speeds--a situation some owners said caused them to lose control of their cars.

Mike Spencer, a spokesman for Torrance-based American Honda, said Friday that a new count of faulty transmissions replaced by the company's dealers in the U.S. had boosted the total to 24,000, or 2% of those sold.

Spencer said Honda "wanted to do the right thing for our customers--service is a cornerstone of this company."

He said owners of Honda and Acura models covered by the new warranty would be notified by mail.

No accidents or injuries have been reported in connection with the transmission failures.

Extending the warranties may be insufficient to satisfy all customers, however.

Some Honda and Acura owners who contacted The Times after its report said they wanted their cars recalled and the transmissions replaced before something could go wrong.

Honda has said a recall is not necessary, and government regulators agree.

The extended warranties more than double the basic three-year, 36,000-mile transmission coverage on Honda models and add three years and 50,000 miles of protection to the Acura warranty.

Spokesman Spencer said the extended warranties cover automatic transmissions in all 2000 through 2001 Honda Accords, Odyssey minivans and Preludes; all 2000 through 2002 Acura TLs, including the Type-S; all 2001 through 2002 Acura CLs and CL Type-S models; and early 2003 Acura TL and CL models, including the Type-S.

Honda said it identified the transmission problems earlier this year--a weak bearing in four-speed models and a weak third-gear clutch pack in the five-speed models--and redesigned them.

Although customers also have reported transmission failures in 2002 model Honda Accords and Odysseys, Spencer said the company was not extending coverage on those models because its research shows they are not affected by the same problems.

A spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that although the agency has received complaints from Honda and Acura owners, the staff that screens reports for safety issues has not recommended that an investigation be opened.

Several Honda and Acura buyers contacted The Times to voice concerns about buying Honda and Acura vehicles in the wake of the report that thousands of the cars' sophisticated automatic transmissions had failed and been replaced.

Tustin residents Collin and Jerri Corkum, who bought a 2003 Acura TL in March, said they were worried that Honda was not offering to recall and replace all of the transmission.

Collin Corkum said he had asked his Acura dealer and representatives of NHTSA for advice and been told there is nothing he can do unless the transmission fails.

"Must we drive in fearful apprehension until it happens? Or should we sell this car now at a great loss before everybody knows its track record and the lineup for replacement is several miles long?" he asked.

It is that kind of customer concern, Spencer said, that Honda is trying to end by extending transmission repair coverage on potentially affected vehicles.

James Hossack, an industry analyst with AutoPacific Inc. in Tustin, said: "This is not only a smart move, it is a necessary move. If you've got a problem like this, you need to own up to it and fix it and do it quickly and openly."

The American unit of Honda rival Toyota Motor Corp. recently received complaints from several thousand customers of major engine damage caused by an unusual buildup of oil sludge in various Toyota and Lexus models.

The company said there was nothing wrong with the engines and that customers were at fault for not following recommended engine oil change procedures.

Hundreds of customers responded with proof of regular maintenance. Toyota ultimately extended warranty coverage on the engines but maintains that the problem is with improper maintenance, not engine design.

That Girl

Matthew Veno spotted an opening in the early-morning rush-hour traffic and stabbed the accelerator. His year-old Acura TL Type-S surged forward, hitting close to 80 mph on Boston's Route 3. Then, with no warning, the five-speed automatic transmission slipped from fifth to second, pulling the car up as sharply as if he had slammed on the brakes.

"Fortunately, the people behind me were able to swerve, so there wasn't an accident," the 23-year-old computer engineer recalled. "But it could have been pretty bad."

When Veno's $34,000 Acura spontaneously downshifted, the engine kept racing and the crankshaft revolutions, or RPMs, went through the roof, kicking in a limiter that cuts off the engine to avoid damage.

"That caused even more jerkiness, and at 80 it started the car swerving from side to side on a two-lane highway. I almost slammed into a construction barrier," Veno said. "It was the scariest time I've ever had in a car. If the traction control hadn't been on, I would have lost it."

Veno's dealer arranged for the car to be towed and replaced the faulty transmission under warranty and without argument.

It is one of almost 16,000 Honda and Acura automatic transmissions American Honda Motor Co. has replaced in the last two years, leading some owners to begin questioning the company's reputation for building bulletproof cars.

Others, such as Kathy Lammens, say American Honda should order an immediate recall.

"They need to do it for the people's sake," said the 38-year-old Placentia resident, whose 2001 Acura CL's automatic transmission failed completely the day after it slipped into second gear at 65 mph on the Costa Mesa Freeway late last month.

When the downshift occurred, Lammens said, she was heading home from work on a fairly empty freeway.

"It felt like I'd suddenly slammed on the brakes," she said, "but the engine was straining.... And there was no one behind me, which is good because the brake lights don't go on when that happens, so there's no warning to anyone following."

Lammens said her Acura dealer agreed immediately to replace the transmission but told her he could not give her a completion date.

"I asked why, and I was stunned," she said. Lammens was told she was 27th on a regional waiting list for replacement of five-speed automatic transmissions for late-model Acura CLs.

Mike Spencer, a spokesman for Acura, Honda's sport-luxury division, confirmed that there has been a "higher than normal incidence" of problems with two Honda-built automatic transmissions. Although many involve high-performance models such as the 260- horsepower Acura Type-S, others afflict 200-horsepower V-6 Honda Accords and 240-horsepower Odyssey minivans not usually associated with racing and speeding abuses.

The two transmissions are the five-speed used in V-6-equipped Acuras since the 2000 model year and in Honda Odysseys since the 2002 model year; and the four-speed automatic used in V-6 Honda Accords since 2000 and in 2000 and 2001 Odysseys.

Of 1 million vehicles sold in the U.S. with those transmissions, Spencer said, Honda has replaced the transmissions in about 16,000, or 1.6%.

No accidents or injuries have been reported, and a spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that though the agency has received a number of Honda and Acura transmission failure complaints, the screening staff that checks reports for safety issues has not recommended that an investigation be opened. Reports to the agency can be filed online at www.nhtsa.dot.gov.

Spencer said the number and severity of transmission problems, though exceeding Honda's tolerance, are not enough to warrant a recall.

Nor has Honda issued a service bulletin to alert dealers to the potential for trouble, he said.

Company policy prohibits dealers from opening transmission cases- -"If there's a problem under warranty, the whole transmission is replaced," Spencer said--and the problem transmissions cannot be identified until the problem occurs.

So a bulletin, which typically provides instructions for repairing a problem when the customer takes in a vehicle for service, would do no good.

Spencer said Honda engineers identified the root of the problems a few months ago and have redesigned the transmissions.

The four-speed models were afflicted with a bad bearing that could break apart, scattering fragments of metal that clogged fluid passageways in the transmission, causing it to shift erratically, he said.

The five-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting.

Honda and Acura dealers are replacing affected transmissions under warranty--typically with factory rebuilt transmissions, a standard industry practice, Spencer said. He said customers such as Lammens have been caught in an unusual situation because Honda has never had a run of bad transmissions and thus has never had to stockpile replacement parts. When the four-and five-speed automatics started breaking, he said, a backlog quickly developed.

"But we are trying to get parts into the system, and in the meantime we are providing loaners at no cost so our customers won't be without transportation," he said.

That has come in especially handy for a few Acura owners whose cars were out of service several times before Honda engineers found the cause of the problem.

Several on an Internet forum for Acura owners have complained of having to replace transmissions several times before getting one that did not self-destruct. Not all own older vehicles either.

Jim Mincy, a Michigan real estate broker, said in an e-mail interview that his 7-month-old 2003 Acura TL Type-S is headed back to the dealer for its second replacement transmission.

Most of those interviewed had no complaints about how Honda and its dealers have treated them. But many echoed Veno, who said his problem transmission will haunt him--and Acura--for a long time.

"I bought this car because of the company's reputation for quality. I was going to buy a Honda product and drive it for 250,000 miles," he said. "But now I can guarantee you that when the warranty is up, the car is gone. And this will probably be in my mind when I go looking for a replacement."

Spencer said Honda is confident the problems have been solved.

He said Honda owners with transmission concerns should call the company's customer service hotline at (800) 999-1009; Acura owners should call (800) 382-2238.

"We are definitely keeping an eye on this, and if it looks like the issue is growing, we'll take other steps" that could include extending warranties for replacement transmissions that now are covered only by the remainder of the original new-car powertrain warranty of five years or 50,000 miles, Spencer said.

That's good, said Joshua Pai, a 23-year-old electronics engineer from Anaheim who worries about his Acura TL's longevity after its recent transmission failure.

"But I wish they'd do more," he said. "There's bound to be someone in an accident because of this, and that will be terrible. They really should recall them all."

*

John O'Dell covers the auto industry for Highway 1 and the Business Section. He can be reached at john .odell@latimes.com.

That Girl

Keep in mind ,this is not the person who had their car totaled due to accident from transmission failure.. his user name is SHYNE...... I can't find the picture's from his accident and the details ,but they WERE out there somewhere ....


Momentum.....how can you belittle these accident's? I guess you would have to expierience this first hand ....

sukinsyn

I am not interested in a class action law suit. This just happened to be the first thread I opened and I posted my story on. Sorry for the confusion. My bad...

I am new to this board. I happened upon it while looking at Edmunds, doing research on a new car, since my lease is up in 60 days.

I had no idea so many others had double and triple transmission replacements. All similar to the way mine did.

When I described my *issue* to the dealer, I am sure that they knew exactly what was wrong and just decided to wait for the transmission to drop out the second time.

Now that it is acting the same way, again, I am tempted to just make my last payment (Octobers is already in the mail), and walk away. I can share a car with my spouse until I decide which car; with a manual transmission. ;-)

I will feel sorry for the poor soul who purchases that car....it will look nice and have only 24,000-25,000 miles on it and they will think they are getting a great bargain. Then the transmission will drop out again.

When your car goes out of control and all you can do it is try to steer it, it really makes you appreciate a manual transmission.

That is why I am going back to basics.

aclura

it really makes you appreciate a manual transmission.
That is why I am going back to basics.[/QUOTE]

Hey, a cl with a stick, the reliable acura reinvented.

momentum3.2

I am not belittling anybody's accident. Quit twisting my words. I am stating, using facts, that the NHTSA could not find any conclusive evidence that a failed transmission caused a loss of someone's life, as well as concluded that the accidents that rendered the vehicle inoperable were not the causes of injuries, the ones with injuries are due to 'sudden jerking' of the car:


What is your goal here? you claim you don't want a class action lawsuit, you claim our cars are dangerous to operate. We already know there's an issue with the transmissions. Is there anything else we can do besides accept the voluntary recall? yes --> Sell your car. The only thing we can do besides that is support each other with questions regarding transmission failure, oil jet failure, troubles with getting recall service, etc.

end of discussion.

That Girl

Originally Posted by previous post by momentum3.2
ODI has reviewed related VOQ complaints and AHM’s IR response data (received February 2003) to determine complaint, crash and injury counts. Of the two crash incidents alleged on VOQs, neither resulted in a claim of personal injury. One event was related to a transmission crash allegation could not be reached. AHM reported two loss-of-control incidents that caused minimal damage to the vehicle without personal injury. The five injury incidents reported appear to be related to sudden downshift events; none of the claims involve a crash. One event resulted in untreated neck/upper back pain, one in successfully treated neck/back pain and another in neck/back strains with ongoing treatment (medication). Another claimant who had a significant prior history of spinal problems remains under care for pain, the fifth incident claims unspecified injuries to the driver and possibly one occupant due to dashboard contact.

************************************************** ***************************

This is obviously a PREMATURE report. These are investigations as of FEB,03 . Funny I purchased my 03 in FEB....OF 03 .


Oh and ..I talked personally to one who was involved in a crash.....due to the tranny and his occured in 02 and he said his ATTORNEY opted Not to persue litigation ..That is WHY ....I assume there are not more details on atleast one of those issue's.

I didn't say there there were DEATH's anyway ..I said there could be ...none of us know ..if someone died in an accident and didn't live to tell the story ..we will never know.


Yes ..I agree we should all help one another sort all this out......I am certain there is alway's going to be someone who know's more about this then you or I ,but I am trying to sort through the history for some clear answer's ,that obviously we are not going to get from ..you know who.

I am not twisting your word's momentum ...you certainly portrayed a belitteing attitude about this issue...........it is obvious that your attitude was trying to make a mountain appear like a mole hill...

And I am only stating that for ALOT of us This is a mountain and NOT a mole hill ..


it is quite obvious ...how do you not see it?


Go look at BABYBLUE's last post ...going on 2nd tranny after oil jet recall???


My tranny is also having problem's ...have not had the service tech duplicate it ..but then it has not been a daily event for me either.. I am scared of my car ...filled with anxiety driving it ...

You say sell it ? I am not in a position to do that right now . I won't go into deatil on that ,but truly not able to at this point ...or you could bet your life I would.


Hope there are no hard feeling's .... I do understand though that ,if you have not been effected physically by your transmission problem's ...having your tranny replaced repeatedly obviously is no sweat to you ...and that just happen's to be your circumstance....for other's the problem is much more signifigant.


Is that how you end a discussion ...you say it's the end and it is ....


Well ...whatever you say.

Yes it's certainly a mouintain....

allenn

A little logic goes a long way in any argument, so here's a little logic for you to ponder . Please don't strain your brain on this.

First point: A broken second gear will cause the tranny to seize, refer to:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...66&postcount=1

This is the reason for the marvelous engineering recall we call the Oil Jet Kit. Obviously, low or no fluid could also be responsible for a catastrophic failure, but the tranny is failing for the former problem not the later.

Second point: I do not mind being quoted, but please be accurate when you quote me. I said Honda should provide "a lifetime transferable warranty on the tranny including no limits on normal wear and tear. I said warrant the TRANNY not the complete vehicle. with you that no one in their "damn right mind would warrant a machine for life". Honda should have no problem with a lifetime warranty on the TRANNY because they have stated their confidence in the fixes which have been implemented. My . Thank you for your time. Enjoy your CL and have a nice day.

momentum3.2

Show me where I incorrectly quoted you. Secondly, show me where a machine = a vehicle however a machine does not = a transmission? I sure hope you guys enjoy throwing the same shit back and forth at each other.

Let's go back to the original question at hand. You guys want a class action lawsuit to compensate you for your losses. Have you had to pay for a transmission for your CL? No, ok no losses. Next. Has there ever been a documented collision & injury due to a tranny locking up at high speeds or low speeds? Not according to the NHTSA. are there rumors of one injury? apparently according to some of the posts in here. Are we all at a risk of dying every time we get in our CL? yes. you are at risk every time you get in any car. Is Honda to blame? If you are referring to the poor craftsmanship of the transmission of the transmission, then yes. Has Honda responded? yes, with a voluntary recall. Do you have any other grounds to stand on? nope. Unless any of the above are answered differently, meaning, you had to pay for your transmission, you injured yourself in a collision caused by your transmission overheating, honda denied any responsibility and honda refused to repair it unless you paid for it. Does it make this situation perfect? no. But we're dealing with facts here.

And as far as the photos are concerned, unless I see VIN numbers and/or AHM stamps, and a clear non-pixelated photo, those could be pics of a new age rocking chair.

That Girl

Has there ever been a documented collision & injury due to a tranny locking up at high speeds or low speeds?
************************************************** *****************************


Absolutely there is.




Momentum.......


You also state that we are all at risk each time we drive our car's ..noone will dispute that....however ...when a known defect can and has put people's lives and well being at risk.....EACH time they DRIVE their car ....yes there is a deffinate issue !

WHO in the world knows WHEN your car may lock -up ANYTIME...ANYWHERE!


I have been there on seeral occasions' momentum and having problem's again is really .......really beyond deffinition .


Yes I clearly see they are taking step's ,but darn them it's too late for those whom are already injured! The 2nd gear issue is the only one that has been addressed by a recall......... They did this due to a safety defect............ What about the DOCUMENTED lock-ups that already caused injury ??? They tried fixe's .....they replaced tranny's on a case by case basis ...But there was NEVER a recall due to those lock-ups that supposedly transpired due to a 3rd gear clutch pack issue..



I will state that I am not making issues because of a class action suit.... However ...in this tranny situation ...There are TOO many different issue's that have effected these transmission's and are also clearly safety issue's ! It's not like it could be pinned to one type of failure ..the failure types are so numerous!


Yes the resale value will take a hit ...Will that warrent a class action? I have no clue ....But I assume those with authority will decide those issue's ...


Meanwhile...... Since getting off track ..I have totally forgottenn WHY you are so upset that some Attorney's are persuing a class action suit?


If those Attormey's feel they have a case ..They will move ahead with or without your blessing's ...no?

momentum3.2

Where is the documentation? the NHTSA (stands for NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION) does not have a death or collision & injury due to lockup. There are 5 reported injuries due to the tranny failure only NONE of them involve collisions.

I could care less what some punk trial lawyer does, who wishes to only profit from other people's bad circumstances. If there was a valid reason for a class action lawsuit, I'd be behind it. I don't, as well as many other members on this board, do not see a reason for one. What's pissing me off is that 3 years later, a group of new members who have not be involved in the past threads are now posting things like 'honda owes me', 'I deserve compensation for my safety risk', :blah: as well as other posts regarding 'how dangerous our CL's are'.

Have fun in this thread, I'm done. You could get hit in the face with a brick and argue that the brick is too compressed and too dense to be safe.

allenn

allenn

with your comments.

The problem with the lemon law in Georgia is you must file in the first twelve months. The law assumes that a major problem will occur early in the life of the vehicle which in the case of the trans is not true. In this case, the only recourse an owner has is a class action law suit.

No denying the fact that Honda covers the cost of the tranny and in some cases a loaner vehicle, but I lose time and $$$ every time my CL-S goes to the dealer for recall service. I had a reasonable expectation that my CL-S would provide the same service life and resale value as the other Honda products that I have purchased since 1978. My CL-S is worth nothing with the flawed trans. A person would have to be an idoit to purchase my CL with the knowlege that the trans will probably fail again. The cost for a rebuilt trans is more than $1500, but keep in mind even the rebuilt tranny is flawed and not permenantly fixed. I honestly could not sell my CL-S to anyone without disclosing the trans problem. I have taken a $32000 hit which I am not happy about. Yes, I am looking for a legal remedy, but it is not for $$$s. I think the best thing Honda could do to settle their tranny problem is warrant their trans for the life of the vehicle for all owners. This takes the trans worry out of the equation by protecting the resale value for anyone that owns the CL.

From the Honda Owner Link website:

April 26, 2004

Recall Campaign: Automatic Transmission Second Gear Inspection

Dear Acura Owner:

Your vehicle is affected by the automatic transmission recall that was recently announced.

What is the problem?
Certain operating conditions can result in heat build-up between the second gears of the transmission's countershaft and secondary shaft. Prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in a decrease in the gear's material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this may lead to chipped or broken gear teeth or, in rare instances, gear failure.

I do not think Honda, out of the kindness of their heart, has modified the trans warranty and created the oil jet kit. Someone has slapped them upside the head. They have been forced to make the concessions, but the neither of these fixes protects the resale value of the car.