Pappy

I can't believe how many people here in the forum have had their transmission replaced...and some more the once. Wouldn't you think Honda would recognize this problem and do a re-call instead of going through all the bad publicity? Maybe we should all e-mail a letter to American Honda.

jimcol711

they will never issue a recall....they just keep replacing them, no questions asked, as they are breaking down.....whatever, its shitty, but as long as its under warrenty, i could care less if my tranny blows or not...in fact, i hope it does blow before 50,000 so i can get a fresh one to last me into the after-warrenty lifespan of the car

CLpower

it'll cost them more to do a recall then it's costing them to repair them.

russianDude

The problem is not bad as it sound (2-3%).
But its not looking good compared to Toyota or Nissan

KavexTrax

There's also a bit more to it than that. Cost is one thing, reputation is another big factor. Japanese corporate culture is extremely sensitive when it comes to reputation and saving face. And losing face is not an option as it is a sign of defeat.
So you'll find big H very hesitant on issuing a broad-based recall, unless its a major fault.

IntegraVT

iTrader: (1)

Toyota has their own quiet campaign with the V6 sludge problem.

kensteele

Fortunately because we have a variety of cultures and ways of thinking in the country, the so-called Japenese corporate culture of honor and reputation won't exactly always fly here in America. Why? Because it's not up to the Japanese corporate culture to issue a recall. It's up to the U.S. Government. And the U.S. Government will force Acura to issue a recall no matter if they get their "feelings" hurt or not. The Government is interested in the safety of the People, not what Acura wants or wants not to do. Will Acura voluntary recall? Probably not. Will the Government force them into a recall? If it's not a safety issue, probably not. All this talk about costs and what is the right thing to do and reputation only relates to whether a company takes action on it's on and is mostly secondary to the main issue of a recall....I'm sure costs are accounted for differently on the company's books when they face a recall as opposed to somebody's design flaw. If you deserve a recall, you will get one. There are literally thousands on the book and the Government doesn't miss sh*t often and they sure aren't playing favourites these days.

I'm sure Kavex was referring to a "voluntary" effort to save face by the Japanese and not whether your recall is going to depend on the goodwill of the Japanese. Although my dealings with the Japanese (in America) tell me something very different than this...quite the opposite in fact.

NJTypeS

The problem is when your tranny fails after your warranty has expired. I'd like to see if Honda will do anything for a tranny failure after warranty. Its sad to say, but I don't think Honda would do a recall unless someone was seriously injured, ie (someone gets into a serious accident as a result of transmission failure, and files a suit against Honda)

kensteele

Yes, true, and sad at the same time. But it's the law and it's how business is currently being conducted in the country in ALL areas, not just in cars. Honda does exercise goodwill. I'm sure they are fixing out of warranty transmission. And BTW, the problem is TINY, not HUGE. T I N Y

russianDude

If Acura wants to stay in business and have happy customers that want to come back for more products it needs to do the following:
Extend transmission warranty up to 100,000miles / 7 years... or at least match up Infinity, Toyota, Nissan power train warranties that run beyond 50K miles.
Infinity has 70K miles/7 years for power train.


They need to do something for customers to restore their confidence in their products... otherwise their business will hurt...
Even if problem is not HUGE, I doubt that someone will buy Acura after seeing this web site.

kensteele

Wrong! My friend is buying 03 TL tomorrow. After reading ATL and ACL for weeks and doing his "homework". I assured him that he has nothing to worry about. He should be looking out for that runaway 18-wheeler on I-435 long before he should worry about getting stuck with an out-of-warranty TL with a bad tranny.

russianDude

Well, I have just oposite examples where my friends were chosing between Nissan Maxima, Infinity, and Acura. After reading this web site Acura was droped from the list. We are all humans, and PERCEPTIONS are important. Even if problem is 2%, you don't feel comfortable. Just a matter of perception.
Check out www.maxima.org, you will have hard time finding SINGLE tranny failure on 2001+ models... and they have more members than here, how do you explain this?
People read information, and they make their choices....

randomwalk101

No sh*t. I have never had any problem with my Acura GSR (Integra)...that's why I bought the TL and then joined the board and saw all this transmission BS. If I were just to join the board before I bought the TL, I would have left the TL alone and gone with a Lexus already!!!

TakeFlight

The fact that "transmission problems" is a regular topic of conversation here and the fact that we have talked about it so much a whole separate forum was created for it should be enough to tell you that there is definitely a problem with these transmissions. Sure, the majority haven't (yet) had a problem but there are WAY TOO MANY people having problems. And I hope Acura is forced to issue a recall because I think it's a major safety concern. In my case, it happened on a local road when I was doing 30MPH and accelerating (wouldn't shift up to 3rd). But in other cases someone has been cruising at highway speeds and without warning the tranny shifts into 2nd!! That's a MAJOR safety concern! Someone is going to get killed because of a transmission failure.

Acura has likely lost me as a customer for the foreseeable future. Once I get my car back I'm probably only going to hold onto it for another few months before I trade it in for something else (G35 sedan or coupe). Since Acura is putting the same "damaged goods" back in the car I will never trust it again.

SicK TypeS

sad as it is, i hope that happens......
...i hope it happens to russiandude ...jus playin

KavexTrax

http://www.maxima.org/maxfaqs/images/5g/tsb/tcm2/1.jpg
http://www.maxima.org/maxfaqs/images/5g/tsb/tcm1/1.jpg
http://www.maxima.org/maxfaqs/images..._cut/ntb01-018(1).jpg
http://www.maxima.org/maxfaqs/images/5g/tsb/brake/1.jpg

Somebody must not be doing their homework very well because by your "perceptions are important" reasoning, plus the facts I have presented now, you would have eliminated all three manufacturers.

Perception means nothing if you dont have the facts straight. :shakehd:

EricL

RE: the bulletins for the Maxima...

I did a number of searches on transmission failure, transmission replacement, and so on...

A general search turned up a number of pre-95 vehicles (manual and auto) needed some tranny work (boy, I only wish the numbers were that small here).

I then checked just the 5th generation cars and found about 10 complaints and some of those needed the solenoids (as per your TSBs).

So, I suppose someone could go running over to all of the "competing" brands and start tranny failure polls, but when I compare the number of comments in the TLS forum (with no dedicated tranny section) to the Maxima forum, the TLS forum has a tranny report (or two) on every page (or so it seemed tonight)...

I also looked for multiple slushbox replacements, and outside of one or two possibilities (5th generation) -- I couldn't find any I did find a couple of “lemons” (I expected this and one car, in particular, was a poster child for “auto lemons”).

Sorry, the failure reports on low mileage cars seem much lower than ours…

I had limited time, so polls results (from new polls) from other forums are welcome!

russianDude

You are missing my point, sure, all manufactures will have some problems(transmission wise and etc). But if you try to look for individual complains regarding 2001 Nissan Maxima transmission -- you will not find many!!! and Maxima forums have more people!! Lets say you don't know anything about Acura CLS and Nissan Maxima, visit two forums:
www.maxima.org
www.acura-cl.org or www.acura-tl.org

Acura forum will kick you right in the face with "Tranny problems"... does not take much time to see many complains.... How does it make people feel about buying Acura??

russianDude

Pappy

Well, maybe someone from Honda USA should read our forum.

russianDude

I don't care what Honda does. The only thing they can do to restore my confidence in Honda products is to extend transmission warranty up to 100K miles, or at least 70K miles ( How come Infinity gives you 70K powertrain warranty and Acura does not !? ).

mc222

I bought my CL-S ( '01 ) in June,I now feel better that a 100k mile warr. came w/ it because it was certified!

lrutt

I buy a car to last 200k miles. I just don't feel this one will. Even if they gave me a 100k mile warranty I'd probably unload it early. Good excuse to go to the G35 coupe in a couple years.

kensteele

I'm not buying this jumping ship from Acura to go else due to potential tranny problems. Sounds like competitive pressures to me.

I think the Acura churn rate is still the same or similar. When it comes times to actually purchasing a car, what you say you'll do and what you actually do are quite different. If you can switch that easily, you probably would have switched just as easily had the Acura salesperson yelled at you or the Acura dealership was closed for repairs that day or your ordered Acura came in and it was the wrong colour or you happen to run across ACL as read about a few tranny problems.

The MAIN reason this forum has a dedicated tranny forum is because the rest of the members got tired of arguing about it in the Car Talk forum. It also serves as a way to segregate such an explosive topic but we don't create separate forums for other [negative] topics or issues.

EricL

Ken,

If you look at the TLS forum, the reason for this forum being in existence should be obvious (well, I think so).

I "visit" (and/or lurk) from time-to-time and see complaints from folks feeling that their complaint threads/postings get removed (I don't know if this is true of not). However, this forum serves like sound deadening for a Chinese water torture drip device -- it keeps the otherwise repetitive sounds of dripping ATF stories out of the Car Talk forum. (I can comment that the forum was NOT created due to some "Oh my god, all of our cars are falling apart... Let's start a transmission horror story forum…." So, the forum (hopefully) serves the transmission sufferers/victims better and keeps the issue where it belongs (in here for the now).

AS for the not buying this or that strategy when new car buying time comes…

I can only comment on my day-to-day change in behavior and mood. If not for some possible fixes (Comptech cooler) and rather easy driving style (by heat, drive time, speeds, low-mileage, moderate to low WOT excursions) and extended warranty (7yr/100K), I would probably already be making plans for another car. I like to keep cars for a rather long time, but only if they look like they are "SOLID". So, when I think about my daily experience with the car (problem free and tranny feels perfect), I want to keep the car). However, when I talk to friends who have NOT abused their cars (middle age folks who do mixed driving [no driving at 100MPH on Sunset] who have already gotten second transmissions, I need to make plans to "get off" the car before 50k miles (that's a very long time for me). If the cars ran to 30k miles with hard driving and 100K miles with "mixed" driving, I'd just say people expect too much for a car with the features at this price.

I commend your "no-worries" attitude, since I can't say the same. I hope for the best and plan for the worst (I keep my AAA ready with a fully charged cell phone). I wonder if you would still feel the same if you had a couple of replacement trannies tossed in?

If Acura made this same car with an up rated transmission (400hp/400 lb-ft + cooler + beef bearings, etc), I'd buy another one when the time came (based on current situation). I don't want a manual in a luxo-sports touring car (I will take a manual sequential )

A beef tranny is on my list of “next car features”…

TakeFlight

No, it's because the other negative topics are not as plentiful. The amount of tranny talk on this website is overwelming. Your take on it is that it's just blown out of porportion? That was what I tried to tell myself as well when I had a working tranny. Now that my tranny is dead I realize I was fooling myself.

I guess we will find out as time goes on but I think the majority of CL-S trannies will die before they hit 100,000 miles. And remember, I said "majority" not "all".

Rod

I don't care if Honda/Acura extends the tranny warranty to 500K miles, they'll still be using the same crappy tranny. That just means you'll have 500K miles of worries and headaches, at least for me it does. For those that still feel 100% confident with their trannies, great, but I can't count on this tranny not taking a shit on me while out of town or while doing 85 MPH plus. That thought stays in the back of my mind at all times probably. Not that I drive around just waiting for my tranny to die, I hope it doesn't, but I know it can happen at any given time. The same can probably be said for any tranny, it's all luck, but this one sure seems to be more prone to downshifting into second gear whenever the hell it decides to crap out on you.

This is the only way I'd consider another automatic Honda/Acura...
...plus it would have to have a much better warranty than the current one.

Pappy

When I bought the car, I didn't know about transmission problems. Something told me to buy the EXTENDED WARRANTY. I'm I glad I did.

madacuragal

My 2001 tranny died last Friday at 18,000. My dealer said he will replace it if they can ever get a ship date from the factory. And then I found this Forum................ Since then, I:

Made a formal complaint to the NHTSA.

Notified several national newspapers.

Notified some local news stations.

Contacted Acura Customer Service (oxymoron) in order to pursue a free extended warranty on the new transmission.

Oh yeah, and I tipped off some rabid class action law firms.

At the very least, I want a recall, safe replacement parts, warranty protection, and a guarantee that I won't get rear-ended on the freeway when the tranny spontaneously down shifts!!!!!

EricL

Good work!

It would really be sad to read about a family of four hit in the rear by a gasoline truck due to a locked-up/faulty slushbox...

Hopefully, "Spontaneous downshift by Acura transmission failure kills mother and infant" doesn't end up in the paper or evening news



Protection/fix: perhaps a rear strobe kit will be supplied to concerned slushbox drivers (something similar to the warning lights supplied to CALTRANS vehicles OR:

ZED'S Type-S

A new warrenty would be great if it doubled as life insurance.

Red Rider

Once and for all, why don't one of you experts get a total of all Acura 5ATs installed in all 2000-2003 CLs and TLs and divide it into all of the trannys replaced. My guess is less than 1%. That would eliminate the whining. For those who have had defective trannys, i feel your pain. It's the experts who haven't and complain about "crappy' trannys that are annoying. Go get a bimmer and a fire extinguisher, don't they all "blow" up ?

russianDude

Its not easy to get the total number of failed trannies accross the nation. Acura/Honda will not give you any credible numbers across the nation. All we can do is guess....

I guess if you have friends who work for big Acura dealership, they can tell you how many Acura's they sold and how many transmissions they replaced... but even that is not acurate...

I still belive the number is around 2% ( provided that you do not abuse your tranny )... However, some people disagree with me.. they think its close to 5% acording to the numbers.. You have to keep in mind that some people ONLY joined this web site because they had a problem and started searching the internet... some people who do not have problems do not come here... its all speculations, nobody really knows the actuall numbers... But I can say for sure, that new generation acura DOES have a slightly higher chance to have blown tranny than Nissan or Camry.

ruski_RENAMED

also regarding those Maxima TSBs:
well, Nissan had guts to admit those problems and issue a fix for them. Acura is keeping quiet about the problem.

EricL

Regarding your comment:

1. I'm quite sure that 99.99% of the members would be thrilled to actually know the "real" failure numbers (by year) for the cars. Hey, Honda/Acura are the ones not providing the info and before you go spouting off, spend an evening or two (I have) thinking about possible means to get valid data from "actual" transmission victims AND those with NO problems.

2. Interesting that there are 7000+ members and the usual # of members on board can hover around 100+ members. Why are there only 60+ "I don't have a problem" entries in the current transmission poll? Talk about not caring until a problem happens. So, I'll swap this around -- how much better do you think it would be if ALL the members -- with or without transmission problems -- entered a "Yes, I'm ok" or "No, I've had a failure" (are you telling me I've got to pay money to people to get a simple poll response from "current" members)? So, using this "small" detail as a springboard/model, what chance do you see of getting every Acura owner in the land to "stop on by" and give a Yes or No answer to "I have had a tranny replaced poll" ?

3. I have three friends that I know rather well who are middle aged and drive their CLS/TLS rather easy. Funny, two of the three have replacement transmissions. Wonder how I feel when I get a couple of weeks ago, letting me know their car’s tranny died in the #1 lane during rush hour… (Oops, sorry, can’t call the transmission ‘crummy’ since it hasn’t happened to me)

Hey, seriously, you want to help your cause/premise? Go find a bunch of members you know that have NOT had a transmission problem and get them to fill out one or more of the polls indicating that they are “problem free”…


AND, if not for the plight of the people who do have to "deal" with this, I find it interesting to find people "complaining" about how the poll doesn't really show the true extent of the problem and others who say, "I'll bet there really isn't a very big problem"...

AS with most things (in this world), its not a problem until you own it... Self interest at work... (I would site a thousand and one example from the year's headlines, but...)

russianDude

Eric, lets be realistic, can we have actual numbers? Probably no.
You brought a good point, there were only about 120 votes in the tranny poll, and we have 7000 members, where is the rest? They probably don't care looking into it because it has not affected them.

So what do you think the real number is?

I honestly don't know, but somehow belive its about 2%. I don't know how big the problem is, but there is definatly something going on with Acura transmssions ( more than with other manufactures ).

One thought I had, and you probably not gonna like it, but is it possible that Acura competitor's such as Lexus and Infinity are adding more flames to the fire?

For all I know there could be some fake posts? just to add more flames to the fire. I am not saying people lie, but sometimes I question the authenticity of the post.

There is definatly a problem no matter what the numbers are.... many complains never hapen for no reason.

russianDude

How about creating new poll, which has a question "Has your tranny failed yes/no"

The response to this poll must be mandatory by every member... As soon as member loggs in, he/she must be faced with this poll before the member can proceed to forums.

Someting to ask moderators?
This will give you more responses.

ZED'S Type-S

But, what about the people who's tranny hasn't totally "failed"? Mine hasn't gone yet but I'm always afraid it will.

russianDude

Fine, can ask that also.. But the point of my idea is to have every member to vote in the poll regardless.

EricL

As to the real number – I would only be guessing. I do know that there are well-defined patterns to the types of failures (well, at least to 90% of the failures reported here). No company is going to have a 0 defect rate with a car that might be driven at the track every other weekend, or with a cost tradeoff to suite consumers’ needs. Hey, I’m heading towards my third A/C unit (for my office) and each one lasts for a shorter period than the last (I don’t see any better bearings in there, but I do see the new models with remote controls – pathetic!)

So, what is the real number? That is the question and the point is: I CAN’T force people to make them fill-out a form. IMO, it is human nature (well, most humans' nature). Until they have the problem, it doesn’t exist. So, I’ve tossed some ideas around and anyone is free to put up a poll. If you think you have an inducement or way to get “good” numbers, please feel free to post the poll up.

Problems:

1. Verification – is the person reporting a problem a real Acura owner (without quibbling, how can one really prove that a VIN is “real”). The software HERE, doesn’t allow for checks by VIN. So, what’s to stop people who want to “short” Honda stock from filing false complaints and people who are worried about resale and Honda supporters to push in extra numbers on their side?
2. RE: Fake posts – hey, there are some postings from members that have been around too long to doubt. However, I’ve had my doubts about some, but what can I do (and I’ve changed my mind a week later with more input). I do look at some of the details and make a “guesstimate” of what sounds real and what doesn’t and some stuff will attract my interest. Unfortunately, this is an issue of diminishing returns and micromanagement. The polls ARE not working in here as the “I’m ok numbers are just way too low”. If you guys want to push a poll that says: 1) My tranny has been replaced 2) I think my tranny might be “funny” 3) My tranny works great, that’s fine with me. BTW, to be clear, I don’t “alter” or “modify” the poll numbers unless someone has reported a “mistake”
3. Inducements – if you induce people to come on down, you will probably get more input. However, this board is a non-revenue board (I think a few dollars drip in) and even if there was a “giveaway”, how do you insure that someone is “honest?” For example, I thought about offering some small token gift ($20) range (out of my own pocket). But, then I wondered how many people who go running out to the car to get their VINs and even then, it means that I have to hand tally the entries. The polls (easy, with “real-time” results) don’t have provisions/tools to force a user to enter a VIN. And, there is no associated database to retrieve a VIN and look up the associated voting entry. If there were an association between VOTE (yes, no, whatever), VIN, MemberName, I could cull entries that didn’t pass a PM check when something looked funny. And now I’m back to playing poll micromanager. I still would not have a SOLID way to verify the VIN.
4. And finally, there are people that will never find there way here. And there are people that are generally younger and drive their cars harder than non-enthusiasts( I’m speaking generally, so people keep the flames down). The demographics are undetermined and probably skew the results towards higher failure.

So, any of you folks can add a poll. I welcome the additions. Now, if you can figure out how to get ALL the members to vote, well, that might be a start. IMO, until Honda/Acura releases the actual numbers (don’t count on that happening), there will be constant quibbling and squabbles about: “How crummy the polls are” , “What a bad poll method”, “The numbers are too high”, “The numbers are too low”, and so on…

All’s I know is my car has low miles and the tranny works great. I have friends that are not very happy and are pretty easy drivers…

I hope that it is clear, that anything that I can do in the way of a poll (as forum mod), you members can do. So, if you have a better “poll”, I would love to have it in here.