Not sure when all these additional changes were incorporated as part of Honda replacing the trannies in our cars, but I'd like to know more details on what each of these is supposed to do, and especially what negative impact there is on performance.

- reprogrammed PCM (powertrain control management)
EricL sort of addressed this in the tranny thread, but I'm wondering if this is something we can change out ourselves.

- new fuel pumps: what's up with this? reduced fuel pressure to further lower the power output of our cars?

- new regulators: what's up with this? reduced what? to further lower the power output of our cars?


There are some others, but these seem to potentially have a negative impact on the performance of our cars. If so, I think we may have a case against Honda for failing to deliver a product as advertised . . . specifically the TypeS folks . . .

Bottom line is that I bought the car based on how it drove and how it was marketed . . . now that car is no longer the car I bought . . . and based on how it is now, I wouldn't have bought it.

If I wanted a detuned car I would have kept my 2001 TL. So they can either fix it right . . or reimburse me for it in some way.

Ruf

 

I remember people saying that the car felt more sluggish after the tranny replacements. Can anyone verify this?

 

That's why I'm saying all this . . . mine did . . . and another guy in our local area just got his back and feels the same way.

But it would help if one of the more technical folks on this board would help us understand what exactly these changes do. That would help validate our feelings about our cars . .

Ruf

 

my car wont drop into 3rd anymore when im going 90

 

I did notice that my car has been a bit on the lethargic side compared to what I remember...

My tranny passed the test eventhough personally there's a problem with it and they won't budge. Then I noticed that my front motor mount had gone out....COMPLETELY out....but when I brought up the fact that this is a known issue with them, basically dismissed my comments.

I remember seeing something on the work order to check regulators and reprogramming of a computer component...hmmm...I'm going to have to pull the paperwork now.

This is what I now see:

Shift Original After Lube Kit
1-2 @40ish @35
2-3 @70ish @65
3-4 @105+ @90ish

In downshifting, I get the annoying blinking gear indicator at points where I remember being able to get to.

Now I'm all geared up about this...I wanna know!!!

 

well if anyone hasn't had thir tranny replaced then they could simply dyno the car before the replacement, then dyno it again after the replacement/reprogram/regulator thing.

 

I haven't really noticed any difference in power of my car after replacing the tranny.

 

my car dynoed at 232hp/191tq w/ the mods in my sig....this is after my tranny replacement so i think its ok

 

Is this refering to the oil jet warranty, im about to take my car in for it and i dont want them to de-tune my car!!!

 

Not to this one. Only the ones noted.

Ruf

 

That's good to hear, but was yours a fairly recent swap? The PCM change was started about a year ago and the others just recently.

As for a dyno, I'm not sure the PCM change would show up in a dyno, but it would on 0-60, 1/4 mile and such. The others may possibly result on a dyno test.

Ruf

 

i think there detuning them so theyll get over 100k miles without and then it wont be there problem anymore

 

i am still running similar track times, so i havent lost any power here

 

My car definately feels sluggish after the tranny replacement. It really dissapointed me because like stated earliers it doesn't drive the same. I dont have a lot of money for mods to make up the difference. I'm very dissatisfied with how the whole thing is being handled. Is it that they're too cheap to fix our cars the right way?

 

you have a good point... but I assume they are trying to keep the cost down... they have to eat every tranny under warranty and if you hot rod the car and keep bringing it in for service.. it just keeps costing them money...

 

I'm ahead of you on that one. I'm dynoing on Saturday. I'll come back on this thread and report my findings.

 

Now that I think about it... Mine doesn't either... The one time I tried it, it didn't want to do it. Could I be on my second tranny? When I was at the track, the very best time I could muster was a 15.075. @ 88.9 Shouldn't it be a little quicker than that, from the show room floor?

 

you guys are all saying you "think" your car has gotton slower, no one is talking proven #'s though, my quarter mile times are exactly the same given the same conditions before/after my tranny swap

 

shut up

some people like to bitch... makes them feel better..

 

yes . . so leave us be . . and be happy that yours doesn't.

I can tell you that there is a difference for certain. As to what degree it has impacted my 0-60 and 1/4 mile times . . . no idea as it's a subtle change. Also, EricL noted that they did change the shift timing between some of the gears . . . which I can confirm by the way it shifts. Whether a 10th or 2 is lost, and if so would it be a major meltdown for most of us? I can say it is disappointing for those of us NAs that are trying to break in to the 13s and or wanted a TypeS because of the performance features. I did, and traded my 2001 TL after 5mos for that reason. That cost me a couple of grand or so, and detuning is adding insult to injury.

The biggest issues are the feel and the fact that Honda IS retuning/detuning to compensate for the tranny issue . . . So in fact of that, some of us no longer have the cars we wanted . . . can you say short changed?

Anyway, I feel better now Smitty . . . thanks. Now I'm going to go out and run the out of it so I feel better.

Ruf

 

Now that I look over the slip, it was 15.075@91.2. But then again, I am running shitty, nearly bald Kumho 711's. So not too sure.

 

Mine feels as strong as day one.. but mine is --> 6spd

 

I dont need a dyno to tell you that my car accelerates different than before the transmission replacement. It reminds me of the feeling of not having your bicycle brakes rub against the rim because they're off center.

 

Didn't notice much of a difference here... fastest automatic CL-S track times too...

 

We'll fix your times with the Texas heat.

Ruf

 

Wise Guy!

Ruf

 

I was going to ask about this. I was racing a 2001ish M3 earlier this week and when he'd downshift to accelerate, I couldn't keep up. the 4 would just flash and not let me downshift. I'm going in Saturday, I'll ask about it. They just did the oil jet kit 10 days ago.

 

Dont do it ,
I had the oil jet kit installed on my 2002 Type S. After test driving the car it seem sluggish when shifting in SS mode. car only has power in 2nd gear , 3th & 4 gear are very weak. I am still trying to figure out what they did to my car.

 

Thats strange all I noticed with the oil jet was that the shift from 2 to 3 was a little harder.

 

If you noticed the 2-3 shift being harsher, then you got an improved version of the trans...from what i gather, the only real changes were to improve fluid throughput in the trans, and a reduction in the transition times when shifts occur. I recently had my trans and a motormount replaced, and there is a dramatic difference in the way it performs. Notibly, 2-3 shift when cold causes a nasty jerk forward, meaning there is no shift shock. EricL has a thread where he explains the different recommended mods that needed to be done. I think it's taken time but Honda finally followed suit. I tested this theory by going out on a street near my house and performing constant 2-3 3-2 shifts back to back, only i did not give it a rest like honda did in their tests. To my suprise, the trans did not fail, and actually seemed to perform better the more i beat on it. To the contrary, my cousin has the same exact car, same year, only he's on his second trans, which had no jet kit, etc, and within 5 mins of trying the same test, trans failed (of course under warranty). His car felt worse that mine as far as noticing the transition between 2-3, but performed the same test and couldn't get it to break...

However, i think this thread serves a valid point, in which Honda failed to deliver a product. The type-s at 260 HP, i thinik remains the same, however the tourque rating now declines at higher rpm. I am going to seek advise about this, and what it could possibly mean for owners of the CL.

 

Mine was replaced at 20 k...then the oil jet at 35k. Still on that second trans now at 50k and grabbing second gear chirps with 18's.

 

Well i sought advise and it seems we do have a valid claim...by the way, even with what seemed to be logical improvements, another trans bit the dust today...number 5 @ 81,000.