patek007

'01 CL-S spec failure to downshift from 4th to 3rd !!
Hey there GoodFellas.. I own a Silver 01'CL-S, and LOVING it... It is one sweet machinery.. as you and I both know it. Now.. I had a very serious 'question' to ask of you and EVERYONE who owns an Acura CL-S, regardless if either from 2001-3 production years:
1. I am currently in the case resolving issue with Acura/HQ, since dealer REFUSED to resolve my problem. In a nutshell, when passing an 18 wheeler on a 2 lane highway, I was going about 93mph.. and per my manual it stated that I could downspeed
from 4th to 3rd [manual shift mode] up to 103 mph, so I tried to downshift, but the DAMN computer just flashed my speed
number on the LED dispaly and NEVER allowed it.. Desperate, it was an almost head on collision, fortunately the other driver
swerved off the road. I then tested my CL-S.. and found out that it ONLY allows to shift down from 4th to 3rd at 85mph!!!!!!!! not 103 as the spec/manual states. Also, I confirmed that it DOES allow to shift from 3rd to 4th right up to 103mph !!! I confirmed this for more then 10 times - it is always consistant. Acura dealer refused to fix it.. giving some BS and ATTITUDE and seems
like Acura is refusing to fix it - still dealing with them. I used to be a sw programmer.. and it could be just a simple software BUG.. since there is PLENTY mechanical power left.. i.e. at 85mph when computer does let you switch from 4th to 3rd, motor is at about 4,300 rpm... I feel CHEATED out of the 'sweet spot' since it is the most sweetest performance moment!!!! Please good fellas... check your CL-Ss.. you might be very surprised.. and cofirm my findings, and inform everyone and myself.
What is even 'shakier' and makes me feel worse, is that I had a 2004 RSX as a loaner during my CL-S maintanance - I test it.. and it allowed me switch from 95mph!!!! - did it 3 times to confirm - Just like the manual stated.. for all NON- S type cars... So CL-S from 2001 is underperforming in manual mode vs. ALL other Acuras, i.e. RSX, TLs, etc. [supposedly]. My email is 'patek007@yahoo.com'. If you guys would test your sweet machines and email me - I would greatly appreciate it. The DumbAsses [part my french] are trying to insult my intelligence by saying it was a misprint in the manual, or that my CL-S is SUPPOSED to perform like that for safety.. !!!! PREPOSTROUS!!! They obviously want to turn me away.. but I am an engineer at heart.. and ANY problem MUST be resolved.. I WILL take them to court... and if any of you
notice the same problem and would like to assist me with your 'concerns' and I shall inform of the resolution. We DID have an unfortunate, life-threatening moment when the car GROSSLY FAILED it's spec.... and performed worse then other lessor performance Acura's in the line up....
Other then that... It is a much better car for the money, efficieny, motor & space .... I.e. and to think I almost gotten a 330ci
!!! CL-S came in at $15k cheaper, more horses, more space and more luxury..!!!
Best Regards,
.Alex.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Alex,

Nothing is wrong with your CLS, all CLS Auto behave like that. Just lift off the Gas Padel and it will downshift for you!

Nashua.

patek007

Nashua.. do you mean to tell me that because I was pressing on the gas pedal.. it did NOT allow the downshift?? Are you saying that it would do the spec, i.e. up to 103mph if I let go off gas??? because the in RSX I did NOT have to let go off the gas pedal.

I will obviously try it - thanks so much for your suggestion. Either Acura Customer Service Agents are ALL IDIOTS, since noone there even hinted in helping me resolve this... or I do not know what's happeneing. Seems like NOONE cares.. there... at all...

.Alex.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

lift off the gas pedal for a split second after 80 and you'll be fine

patek007

NOVAwhiteTypeS... I will do just that.... but if this is truly it... There is NO SHAME for Acura.. to such "TERRORIZE" the Customer.... i.e. the NERVES, TIME and EFFORT I am going through to 'depose' off those ASSES.....

I will inform the results.... Thanks so much for your input...

.Alex.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Just to let you know,

According To Acura HELM's manual:

On 100% full throtle:

It will downshift from 4th to 3rd between 87 and 91 MPH.
It will upshift from 3rd to 4th between 103 and 107 MPH.

According to the specs...I believe there is no way to it will upshift to 5th at 100% throtle position and over 107 MPH, it will redline in 4th!
Also, it will never downshift from 5th to 4th or 3rd at any speed above 91 MPH!

patek007

Nashua_Night_Hawk... by HELM you mean the manufacturer's manual that comes with the car? I understand that past 2001 they changed it.. and others can confirm, but in 2001.. the S type definitely states the allowable range from 103mph and below [there is an asterisk for Type S], in fact I had to FAX the excerpt to Acura... I understand past 2001.. they just removed the asterisk and left it from 95mph as for any other non-S type models.

What truly pisses me off.. is that there is PLENTY of mechanical power on the engine... meaning that true 6-speed tranny would have a GREATER advantage even over automatic, since in theory only redline whould limit the true mechanical power delivery...

.Alex.

patek007

I am an engineer.. and in any 'engineering' world.. a spec is a spec... In this case... the engine has the capability to switch.. it's the damn computer that doesn't allow it. I bet it is checking the throttle before allowing switching [for "SAFETY"], since manually you would let go of throttle when shifting. The manual/CONTRACT in my case for 2001 CL-S STATES CLEARLY that the car is spec'd to shift up to 103mph... END OF STORY...

I know, the world isn't black & white as this.. ... But many moons ago... I GOT HONDA 'legally' on the 'Complete Alarm'.. i.e. the word COMPLETE indicated to me ALL options.. i.e. all remote and automatic options that alarm had... They argued... but in arbitration HAD to install every option alarm system offered, by getting rid of the word 'COMPLETE' in the alarm model name ... I shall not be this lucky in this case... but if the car doesn't switch when letting go off the throttle... - it is unacceptable still... and we are DEFRAUDED.. i.e. EVERYONE who owns a 2001 CL-S... or any other CL-Ss for that matter...

To be honet, I call this the SWEETEST spot.. when downshifting.. the 'thing' becomes like a motorcycle... in gaining in speed... and to take this 'away' from the enthusiasts such as us... - I hope I am not the only one whom this pissed off.....

.My $.03.
.Alex.

1killercls

Oh for Christ's sake...:noob:

Shawn S

Alex,

You sound like an idiot who’s looking for a technicality to win money in a frivolous lawsuit against Acura.
I’d love to be in court when you are explaining to the judge about passing a truck at 90+ MPH and the car wouldn’t let you do it.
Quit wasting the time & money of the judicial system.

Dan

Amen!

typeR

nashau im glad you're on this as soon as i read the title i knew...and to the author...it will up shit from 3rd to 4th at 103 it just wasnt clear that you cant be at WOT to get it to do so

patek007

Shawn.. first of all, if I may, there is no need to waste everyone's time by name calling. You are making everyone aware that YOU are a BIGGER IDIOT yourself, if clueless about what SPECIFICATIONS TRULY ARE to something that is built or designed.

Second, if I may... the reason for being this anal - my family was in the car... put yourself in my shoes. This was a LIFE THREATENTING EVENT, one of the reasons I am so adamant about. Thirdly... DO IT RIGHT, OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL... It is the IGNORANT such as yourself that ALLOW the likes of the burocracy to walk all over you... and US.... They are into this for the money... Yeah it would take $$$ to reprogram modules, and upgrades everyone CL-Ss.. but that is not our problem. Tehy PROMISED us what they printed.

I haven't shared the entire story re. the alarm system, if you are insinuating 'frivolous'. The finance manager there overcharged me... without permisssion, hence I needed to become creative in getting 'mine' back... An eye for an eye baby... an eye for an eye...

I appreciate your feedback though.. keep it up. But I am certain if someone would 'THREATEN' your family... you'd act up upon it.

.Sincerely.
.Alex.

Shawn S

If your precious family was in your car what the hell were you doing passing trucks at near 100 MPH ???

Shawn S

And how is changing the software to allow downshifts at 90+ MPH supposed to make things “safer” ???

patek007

Send me an email.. I will send you my speedometer pic of CL-S doing 150mph... Forgive me... I couldn't do more then 100... .

Humor aside man... this is California, average speed 95mph in certain 'off-peak' times of the mid week. I was 'bad' in 'presuming' my car's capabilities without prior testing, but then all other cars I owned performed per specs. The car moves 'smooth' even at these high speeds... so it wasn't that unsual. Plus it is MORE then capable... believe me. I'll let you know what happens. I agree that the alarm was frivilous.. yet for a reason... but here this is very serious... Stay tuned...

.Alex.

Dan

"The finance manager there overcharged me... without permisssion, hence I needed to become creative in getting 'mine' back..."

Translation, "I was too damn dumb to read the sales contract before I signed it"

patek007

Shawn... if Acura didn't think it wasn't safe, it wouldn't have printed CL'S capability of switching from 103mph from 4th to 3rd... that is what my argument is. Plus there is plenty of engine power to do it. I ty to be a safer driver then most, coming from 'wet' Oregon, and KNOWING what distance & breaking truly is... yet safety has NOTHING to do with specifications. That is all I shall say on this.

Shawn S

I’ll be waiting for the outcome on the edge of my seat………..

Shawn S

Are you a Lawyer or just a 15-yr old pretending to be one ???

typeR

to me 100 on the interstate isnt unsafe...the car is at home at that speed...however...ill restate ...the manual doesnt state at what throttle position you need to be to achieve this...furthure testing will show that just above 60 you wont be able to down shift from 3rd to 2nd..again unless you briefly remove your foot from the gas...had you choosen the that scenerio ,you'd have had a better chance at winning you point,in that legal speeds will have still been in question...sorry you got a scare...now get over it...

Shawn S

I agree if you’re alone and have no traffic to deal with, but 100+ with your family in the car passing trucks…

And he was on a 2-lane 2-way road, not an Interstate.

patek007

Dan.... not dumb at all.... just became a bit more informed of what OEM pricing were for the service/componants installed... something general public such as yourself would not be interested... I bet on most of your cars I could knock of a grand or two... or I better not.. then I wouldn't be getting my deals... ... Yeah.. too dumb I suppose.. .

patek007

Shawn.. come on man... take out the thumb up your ass and fart already... .. Why so bitter man?? Don't worry, be happy.. it's allright... I have the heart to share with the ones that acknowledge my & their concern... If you have nothing good to share.. don't waste our time.. man.. really. You're acting senile...

Thanks for the 15year old compliment .. LOVED IT. That is what helps me deal with old farts.. such as yourself ... Seriously enough... this is the last time you [in particular] shall hear from me... honest.

sgmotoring

Do what I do. If I am above 85mph I just drop it to D3 and it will down shift.

patek007

TypeR.. thanks much for your feedback. Acura Service Manager had stated the SAME reason - they could NOT test at those hi speeds.. BUT.. he also stated that they had NO dynomometer in their nor Acura possessioN??? this is ludicrous... to blame the speed vs. trying to resolve the problem. I went ahead and HELPED them out.. i.e. let them know whom to ask at the factory... i.e. guys who designed the software in the engine controlling module... - They still ignored me - now this has NOTHING to do with speed testing.. i.e. so much can be done BEFORE hand..

Re. speed... I talk with my lawyers... The car MUST perform as spec'd. In US.. if Acura sells in Montana - the legally allowable speeds there are over 100mph... Let's put the speed issue to rest. These are truly excuses vs. substance... of adhering to the CONTRACT that you SOLD the PRODUCT with to a CUSTOMER. PERIOD. It's as simple as that... If the product does NOT perform per it's contract.. the customer or consumer who buys it is DEFRAUDED... It's as simple as that.

juice

Like many others have already said. Nothing is wrong with your car. Mine is exaclty the same. Somewhere around 85 mph, do what you want, other the manually bring it down, it will not down shift into 3rd.

patek007

sgmotoring... EXCELLENT suggestion.. - completely forgot about the other tranny modes.. !!! Thanks much!!! What would I do without you guys.. ... Glad I found this site....

patek007

Juice... I honestly disagree.. as I've stated, there IS MOST DEFINITELY something's wrong... Next time you will only be able to donwshift at 85.. take a look at your tachometer.. and notice 4300rpm... - if your heart will NOT ache for the 'ROBBED' 2400rpm... I am sorry.. but you're a bit less passionate re. perfromance.... and what they 'owed' you per spec.

Seattle Cl-S

"Don't waste our time"...couldn't have said it better myself. You have what, 17 posts, and you're telling this entire board that Shawn, with 15k+ posts, is an old fart and doesn't represent the general concensus on this forum? Most of the people on this board are professionals, unlike your previous RSX forums. When you come on here telling us that you were passing a semi at 90+ mph on a 2 lane road and then trying to blame Acura for endangering your family then you are going to get alot of negative feedback. Sounds like you're the type of person that loves to blame others for your mistakes. And, yes, I understand you feel "robbed" of the upper RPM range. Buy a 6-speed or get over it.

typeR

excelent arguement with the montana thing ...fine but still...the car will shift from 4th to 3rd at 103...just not at WOT thus performing per spec.

patek007

Seattle Cl-S.. I have been very professional, if someone acts childish with me irregardless if after 17 or 17k posts - I shall point out that fact. Read Shawn's literature above before starts judging please. I hold 2 degrees, raise a family and quite in good standing professionally & spiritually in my community, & never would try to demean anyone first as Shawn had obviously intend to. If you are approve of this I have nothing more to say, except that niether Shawn NOR Yourself should even come close to what PROFESSIONALISM truly is.

I do not know where you guys live, yet in California it is an OK occurance to pass someone on a 2 way highway, when it is safe, or you KNOW capabilities of your automobile. YES, we do pass here at 90+, THE FACT that if you do not do this, it is only a function of your environment. I am NOT blaming Acura for anything that they promised yet delivered. I am ONLY blaming Acura for what they PROMISED yet did NOT deliver. Is this so difficult to understand??? I have NOT endangered my family, should the car PERFORMED AS SPECIFIED.

I appreciate ALL of the feedback, good & bad. Yet let's speak for the FACTS aside from anything else. I know, it's difficult to undrestand, yet trust me, I went through problems as these with various products, pressures of budgets, timeframest, zero cost for testing - I KNOW WELL WHY THIS HAPPENED. But.. unfrotunately, the law is very clear - you are RESPONSIBLE for the products you design and that is EXACT reasons WHY we have specifications. They.. not us.. nor our environment but THEY determine what was promised when sold. PERIOD. We had to 'redesign' or 'compensate' for the lack of products, and so should Acura.

This might seem a non-issue.. but it truly is an issue... I didn't mean to start fight wars over this ... I just thought that many more folks experienced this and were cognizant of the situation - for which I apologize. As for blaming others for my mistakes - I do not believe in BLAME at all - for the time we take to blame each - I could resolve the problem myself.. if allowed - trust me on this one - did it quite a few times and still. I also sense that not too many whom are sharing feedbacks are engineers - i.e. the concensus of what is a SPEC is taken very lightly, which in the 'real production' environment is a NO-NO.

6-speed... yes.. , that is a solution.. but in engineering circles we call it a 'band-aid' one . Lastly... I am just so surprised.. WHY you guys paid for something that Acura had promised yet NOT DELIVERING.. and more so, so EASILY ACCEPTING THIS... ???? These are your rights to not only request yet DEMAND RESOLUTION. That is my stance. Let's NOT get over it just yet, ok ?? Please relax, no need to get overly excited. You might want to UTILIZE this excitement in the investigating of your 'underperforming' product if not doing anytning about it .

.A.
---

"Don't waste our time"...couldn't have said it better myself. You have what, 17 posts, and you're telling this entire board that Shawn, with 15k+ posts, is an old fart and doesn't represent the general concensus on this forum? Most of the people on this board are professionals, unlike your previous RSX forums. When you come on here telling us that you were passing a semi at 90+ mph on a 2 lane road and then trying to blame Acura for endangering your family then you are going to get alot of negative feedback. Sounds like you're the type of person that loves to blame others for your mistakes. And, yes, I understand you feel "robbed" of the upper RPM range. Buy a 6-speed or get over it.

patek007

TypeR.. EXACTLY what you said above. GLAD someone understands the REAL issue here... Stay tuned, I will inform as to what happens....

Seattle Cl-S

I grew up in an area of Michigan where hunting is the norm. Everyone does it and nobody thinks it is overly dangerous. Yet, each and every year, someone gets accidentally shot and killed. Typically, it is because the hunter shot in the direction of another hunter from a "safe" distance but somehow the bullet traveled far enough to hit and kill the other hunter. Now, do I call up Winchester and blame them that my bullet traveled too far and not to exact specs? Yes and no. Under IDEAL conditions, I am quite confident that the bullet would travel predictably. However, there are so many real-world variables. Wind, air temperature, angle of the gun barrel to the ground, etc, etc.

My point is, the car is without question, a dangerous weapon. You may feel you are the best driver in the world, which by your posts seems to be the case, but you are human and therefore prone to mistakes. You keep blaming Acura for the dangerous position you and, unfortunately, your family experienced. You don't blame yourself one bit. You could have waited for a larger gap between oncoming traffic. You could have taken off earlier to get around the truck. Maybe you were on an incline. The wind was blowing in your direction, etc, etc. Do you get my point? You keep thinking people are ganging up on you. That isn't the case. We just see your young enthusiasm for cars and for missing the "big picture". I don't care what gear you were in - if you narrowly missed an oncoming car, your decision to pass the semi was hasty and a mistake. A safe driver who thinks of their family and of the well being of passengers in oncoming traffic would have stayed behind the semi... The hunter would not have fired in the general direction of another hunter for fear of the slight chance the variables were stacked against him/her.

BTW, my Doctorate degree doesn't make my arguments more believable, so don't go flashing that crap around here anymore.

patek007

Seattle Cl-S... NOW WE ARE GETTING SOME PLACE . I better hide my two Associate degrees - come on... if we do not laugh - we cry right ? Congrats on your Doctorate, it took sweat & tears to get through mine and I'll be damned if not sympothise...

If we'll forget the specs for the moment.. and talk about SAFETY... I couldn't agree more with you. "LOVING/experiencing" the 'sweet spot' of the 3rd speed in CL-S is quite addictive after a few years. There are various 'initial conditions' at play... BUT... these are REGULAR conditions, REGULAR temperatures, LEVEL road, and the 'margin of error' was NOT a few but almost 20mph !!!! I do not know if you ever went through any arbitration or legal procedures... for I am not an expert - my wife is ... This is not JUST negligence... this is GROSS negligence, if noone from Acura informed 2001 CL-S owners in almost 3 years of ownership.
As for your bullet example - You ABSOLUTELY SHOULD deal with S&W if the bullet trajectory is way off the SPECIFIED ONE in 'regular/normal' conditions... and if you CAN DUPLICATE IT. See that is another thing... I CAN DUPLICATE MY EVENT EACH & EVERY TIME. And I will NOT get into the law re. 'supporting the customer' in helping them resolve the issue which could be constrained dangerous....

Lastly... in the interim of ALL of this.... may I mention something 'stupid'.... I am truly on YOUR SIDE and for making the vehicle SAFER, no matter HOW it is driven... i.e. we all drive it in so many different ways... yet it is not a Haundai.. it is the same drivative of an NSX engine... ie. with the PERFORMANCE IN MIND. No matter how we drive it... in my particular situation - I would have PASSED the semi, should the car performed the way it was intented to perform. End of story.

It is a huge hustle.. I know... There are so mnay 'band-aid' solutions... yet, I am NOT only doing this for me... but for the folks at Acura and not.. to ALWAYS do the 'right thing'... I.e. if you do NOT want the thing to switch from 103mph... simply do NOT promise it.. that is all.

I agree with you.. that although education does ensure the amount of your paycheck [most of the time], it is not worth flashing... vs. the experience .

Seattle Cl-S

See, we're not so bad here. Maybe we can get our '01 ECU's reflashed w/ different shift points after all this?

BTW, good arguments against my hunter example. I guess it wasn't "bullet-proof". Ha, ha. Ok, that sucked...

patek007

Seattle Cl-S... this is what I LOVE about this forum... no matter how diverse the opinions... everyone finds commonality... in due time...

I appreciated all your points... especially the ones re. safety.. If you'd ask me if I'd do this again... even if it would shift from 103mph... I'd say NO.. since my wife would beat the crap out of me... as she did last time . Yet experiences like these... truly teach you NOT to PANIC in the dire, most sudden of situations.

Bullet-proof... ha-ha... smiling back at ya!! I am most certain I am pissing against the wind here... so we shall see... One last thing if I may.... re. Customer Service.. we haven't touched upon this yet.. And briefly.... my friend had gotten the wrong fog lamps on his lexus, so realizing after 3 months and complaining about it... they gave him a brand new [same model] one... with the RIGHT fog lamps. I know - a rare case... yet still, Acura is a luxury brand... but mostly, the dealers act like Honda dealers.. i.e. Service Managers are 'nice' on the surface... but SUCK when it comes down to 'real, get your hands dirty, business'.
After calling my Service Manager and telling him that I will NOT return my loaner until they FIX this 103 thing... he said he'd report the loaner stollen... .. I am almost certain Lexus would better handle the situation [not necesarily fixing things ]. If only Toyota would learn how to build performance engines ....

Does Dinan do Acura ECUs ?

Guru

Um last time i was in montana the maximum speed limit was 75mph.

patek007

Guru.. may I ask when was that approximately.. i.e. which year?

On isolated highways/freeways - they got away with speed limit, yet for safety the Driver manual 'recommended 100mph'... when there was no posted speed limit.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Specification, schmecification. If it doesn't downshift, then it doesn't. If it does, then it does.

The owner's manual is not the Bible.


And you can't compare it to the RSX. It has a higher redline than our cars, thus it would allow you to downshift at a higher speed.

I seem to remember trying to downshift when I was going about 90-95 into third in SS mode. It blinked and didn't let me. I put it in D5 and floored it. Went into third gear.

Next time, make sure there's no oncoming traffic coming at you before passing. Simple as that. It's pointless to argue about how the computer wouldn't let you downshift. Leave some margin of error and you wouldn't have to endanger other motorists. That is all.