Not having any luck finding anything on the forums, so let me throw this out there. I have a 2003 CL Type S with the 6 speed manual. I have 115k miles on it. I replaced the timing belt, tensioner, water pump at 90k miles (timing belt was about to snap, so, got really lucky).

My car started bogging down when I hit the 4000 rpm mark. The engine would slow and not allow me to accelerate passed about 5000 rpm. The exhaust note changed dramatically, like I had a hole in the exhaust. A check engine light code talked about an ignition issue. We replaced the sparkplugs. He found the timing had skipped backwards. He adjusted the timing. Car worked fine for about 50 miles or so. We replaced the fuel pump as well. Not the coils though.

The car started to bogg down again at about 4-5000 rprm. It took a while to get a check engine light on. Finally it came on and it showed P0170 & P0172 this time. I took it back into the mechanic. He found that the timing belt had skipped FORWARD this time. He checked all the pulleys and the gears for any damage...nothing. We replaced the timing belt and tensioner again. Mechanic got the timing all adjusted again.

Here I am again, within about 50-100 miles later, the bogging starts again around 4-5k RPM.

My Mechanic is very well know in the area for Honda's. He knows his stuff, but he is at a loss for whats going on. One thought that he had is the cam shaft on the exhaust side may be seizing up. No problems seem to happen until VTEC kicks in.

Has anyone ever had this problem? Any ideas or suggestions?

 

wow thats crazy man, btw im at 87k and im still waiting with 105k service i have 03 6 speed as well...

interesting what is it. lets wait for the others to respond

 

Have you considered checking for bent valves?

 

Well, I think we are gonna have to dig into the head a bit to figure out whats up. I just bought a OBDii scanner and here is what I got

P301, p302, p303, p304,p305, p306, p300, p1399.

I searched the internet and came to honda-tech. looks like there are alot of honda motors that pop these codes and many of the posts dont seem to have solutions as to whats goin on.

 

Hum . . . that is strange.

Assuming your mechanic did everything right . .

Just thinking outloud here. A slightly bent valve(s) could cause a number of performance (running) conditions. But I'm having a hard time thinking about that causing the belt to skip track either way. You mentioned that you replaced the tensioner, but there are 2 other parts that many replace at this time. One is the tensioner adjuster, it has the high pressure pin that puts a good amount of force on the tensioner and keeps the belt tight. Then there's a pully, but I don't think that would cause the belt to become loose and jump track. I would check the tensioner adjuster.

Assuming your mechanic missed something . . like the tensioner adjuster, or the pully is bad and not letting the belt travel smoothly, or he didn't take up the belt slack . . either side, but the right/front cam slack can't be taken up by the tensioner adjuster.

Anyway, just some things to think about.

Ruf

 

well, the car completely died monday night. Had to park it on the side of the road. fortunately, my insurance has a roadside assistance benefit. they will pay to tow up to 15 miles. my mechanic is 23 or so miles away so only paying for 8-9 miles or so of towing, not bad at $3 per mile. Any hoo, what happened Monday night was the exhaust sound became much louder. It finally got to the point where the engine bogged down and ultimately the rpms began counting down. I was keeping it low RPM's, like 2-3k, but it kept bogging. I realized I wasnt gonna make it to the shop and turned around. it got to the point where I was at 1500 rpms and it wasnt goin anywhere, so I pulled over and parked it. now, the tow truck took it out to my mechanic. The scanner said p1399 on it and had some codes that were ready to pop as well....fuel, egr, and so on. Something is going on in the head, but just dont know. My mechanic will know in a day or so whats going on.

 

talked to my mechanic. he said the belt on both banks have skipped ahead. should know more tomorrow. some poeple at a SAAB repair shop told my mechanic that I must be down shifting to hard. Well, I down shifted once and the rpms didnt go over 4500 rpms and this hasnt been a habit by any means. I know not to let it go into the redline obviously, but to for me downshifting like that? I cant see it...or am I my own worst enemy?

 

something is wrong. I have gone from 6th to 2nd before and others with very hard downshifts. My guess would be improper installation, a bad tensioner/belt or possibly bad/bent valves from it possibly being installed wrong

 

And I just found out the hard way on how this could happen.

I just did my timing belt a couple of days ago with another member. It wasn't too bad until I couldn't get the belt to stay in time. Every time I set the timing and got the belt on, then turned the engine over to check it the belt (most the rear cam gear) would jump a tooth. It was driving me crazy . . especially the rear cam which must be sitting on top of the load and most any movement would cause it to jump ahead.

Anyway, as one would do I started uninstalling all the new parts and comparing them to the old parts. Well imagine the surprise when I discoved that the tension pully was different. I should have taken a picture, but there was a steel sleeve missing on the new one. Since the old one looked very good and felt really smooth I used it and problem solved.

So, how might this apply here. As fsttyms1 said, there could have been a number of problems with the recent installation. If for whatever reason the belt isn't completely tight, it can easily jump time.

Hopefully something like this is the problem verses a something with the valve train.

Ruf

 

I was lucky when I did mine that this did not happen; however, it was on my mind that it could happen at any time when placing the new belt on. In fact, I had to loosen the idler pulley (on that side) just a bit to get the slack removed to complete the installation (counterclockwise) around to the tensioner side. In addition, before I removed the old TB at TDC on #1, I marked the TB teeth and cam pulley teeth, as well as the crank teeth with a silver marker, transferred those marks to the new TB so that I had some idea on correct placement. That's how paranoid I was at getting it correct. After re-torqueing the idler pulley, I manually cycled the crank a few times to check the TDC alignments and all was well.

Was the missing 'steel sleave' you mentioned #9 displayed on the link below or was it the coller on #6 that the TB adjuster bolt goes through on the actual pulley itself?

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

 

I suppose its always possible mistakes could have been made on the install, but I hesitate to agree right away. My reason is that I replaced the timing belt and water pump at 90k miles with the same mechanic. I have since put 25k miles on that timing belt and that 25k miles includes a drive from Utah to Georgia and back to Utah. The symptoms at the begining of my troubles (on the belt replaced at 90k miles) are the same symptoms that I am experiencing now, (on the new belt) except now, they are more prominant.

So the problem started showing up about 25k into the timing belt replaced at the 90k mark. If it was an install problem, why would it take 25k miles to show up, and then keep showing its ugly face after I replace the belt again recently and the issues are still showing up? The problems began with the timing belt that was replaced at 90k miles. Then we replaced the belt and the problems are still there but are quickly going down hill.

I guess the thing to do is wait and see what the valve cover removed shows us. Also if there is anything weird with the gears showing wear in the teeth.

 

The OP in the thread below on the 2G TL side has similar DTC's to yours and it turned out to be faulty coil packs.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/p0300-po301-304-305-306-1399-a-781118/

 

I've wondered about the coils, but the problem is that the timing belt is skipping. is it possible bad coils could cause the belt to skip?

 

I'm thinking if the problem is that the TB belt keeps skipping, components to check would be the tensioner and possibly the adjuster pulley. Is it leaking/failing in some way? Maybe some of the internal tensioner oil (if there is such a thing) has leaked onto the TB belt itself and is causing a slippery situation. How is the adjuster pulley functioning? Does it move freely without excessive slack? Does the tensioner bolt feel loose? Proper torque is 19 foot pounds. Also, the rear cam pulley has like a wall that is molded into the pulley itself to help in true tracking the belt as it spins. Unlike the front pulley. Is there some kind of warpage of the rear pulley that would cause it to skip in some bizarre way? Also, make sure the valleys of the pullies/crank are clear of debris that would cause the belt ribs to not seat adequately and maybe cause the belt to jump/skip at very high RPM's they (pullies) spin at. Just throwing this stuff out there. Alot of it could/would be discernible as one looked over the TB belt area.

; however, logic tells me no. When I observed the codes the other OP mentioned in his thread, they looked like yours, so I thought maybe that would help explain the bogging you referred to.

 

Yep, I just took the old one off and installed the new one. After discovering the difference I just used the old one . . especially since the original one didn't slide out I just assumed that it was integrated within #6.Oh well I guess that's what I get for doing this without reading all the details.

Ruf

 

That's what I thought. The new Honda adjuster pulley I purchased did not include one either. I was going to purchase one when I ordered all to the TB stuff, but wanted to wait and inspect the condition of the old one first. The old one (auto adjuster coller) appeared in near perfect condition even though it had about 115K miles on it. Same with the adjuster pulley, near perfect. I just placed a little white lithium grease on the inside of the adjuster pulley sleave and inserted the coller. Placed it on the waterpump and torqued to 19 ft.ponds. Unfortunately, this is where pits200's debacle began with his TB troubles, so I wanted to make sure this particular bolt was not over tightened.

 

Yep, that adjuster pulley needs to move easily . .

I also went back to the installation guide and guess what . . it just showed a diagram of the pulley and how the belt goes on it, but nothing about the collar/insert. I don't feel so bad on my part now.

Ruf

 

So...I need a new motor.

My guy took the cylinder head off and guess what we found. the front side of the engine (i forget what bank that is), looked brand new and looked like it was getting clean oil, but the backside, the camshaft had basically seized up. If I understand correctly, he took off the intake manifold and the back side of the engine had oil that was basically sludge. The front side of the motor was getting oil, the back side wasnt. It looks like there must have been something that gummed up the oil path on the backside (left bank?). The oil pump appears to be bad.

We found a used motor for $1300 that apparently only has 40k miles on it. The engine is from a 2002. Someone told my mechanic that the head had a different design from the 2003 model, but my mechanic said the HP and compression ratio is the same, so he needs to research it. I am probably going to be into it $2000-2400 or so.

 

I think you can easly get one from craigslist for 500-750$

 

that really sucks

 

Yea, $1300 is a bit much for a J32A2.

Theres no difference in the head design from 01-03. The only difference is the J32A1 heads (aka CL-P heads). They have smaller valves.

You just need a shortblock which would be under $1k.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but I believe if you get a motor from a 5AT car, you're going to have to swap some sensors.

 

$1300 is very high for j32. These engines are very reliable and sell fairly low. I would give it another try

 

So we found a motor and my mechanic is installing it. While taking out the engine that came with the car when I bought it, my mechanic looked at the vin number on the engine and noticed something odd....

The vin number on the motor he was removing did not match the vin number on the rest of the car. He looked up the vin on the motor and found that it came from a 2000 TL. REALLY? I had no idea the engine had been replaced. I know I didnt have anything to do with that. Well, notice something about the 2000 TL? THEY DIDNT HAVE A TYPE S model that year of production. So I bought a 2003 CL TYPE S thinking it had 260 hp but it had a 225 hp TL motor in it. Well, it will be interesting to see what 260 hp feels like in my car having never experienced it before. I bought the car and the navi said the previous owners address was in california. I discovered signs after the fact that the car had been wrecked but had no idea how I got screwed with the motor. I suppose its no big deal now since I ironically get to replace the motor. I probably never would have known with out this happening. but still, I have to pay for the labor and motor because the engine I had in the car was bogus and a POS anyways?

 

wtf

 

When/where did you buy it?

It could just be the block that is from the TL. The heads could be the original heads. Thats assuming something happened to the bottom end.

 

I bought the car from a used car dealership her in Utah. I dont think they knew of the issues the car had. The owner before me was in California. His home address was set as the default in my NAVI.

All I know is the car had this motor in it when I bought it. The engine's vin is from a 2000 TL. After the fact we uncovered some vacuum lines that had been closed off because they didnt have anywhere to go into the motor. The motor was in existance probably 3-4 years before my car was made. Well, gotta see what 40 extra hp feels like soon. I hope I dont get screwed more. I gotta get this to the point where I can sell it. I am going to pick up a Tacoma next, pay that off and then pick up a 93-98 Supra TT (as long as I stay single)

man, if I could have it to do over again....

 

Stay single

 

Wait, so u got a cl-s 6spd with bad heads/enginr. And ur gonna put in a tl-p engine? Ur losing 40 hp. Ur gonna need to change a lot of sensors and ur gonna have some connections loose bc the tl/cl-p's don't have a imrc

 

No. The motor thay went bad was from 2000 TL. Now he is puting type s motor.

 

So ultimately what your saying is, get the Supra? LOL, if so, I like how you think.