pits200

So I will keep this short and sweet. My car runs perfect, I was just saying to my wife as we were making our 400 mile trip. I am at 199,533 miles and I was saying, I can't believe it, less than 500 miles till I break the 200k mile mark.

After I drop her off outside of Philly, I continue on my way, and any of you familiar with the PA turnpike and NJ turnpike, that is when disaster occurred.

My car just shut down and my VSA light came on and I was lucky to have just coasted off the road. I knew it wasn't the alternator or the battery because as I waited for the tow truck, all my electronics continued to work.

I had it towed to a place called Precision Acura (so far their customer service is AWESOME) and the guy opened the oil cap and as I cranked the car he said "oh no". He saw the valves weren't moving and he heard the timing belt slapping inside the housing.

Now let me give you some backup. I didn't change the OEM timing belt until 155k miles and it was in great condition based on what the shop told me. I changed everything at 155k miles. Timing belt, water pump, tensioner, seals, and now not even 45k miles later this timing belt snaps.

They aren't sure if the valves are bent yet, but I'm bent over being that I'm 400 miles from home.

So do you think I have any ground for making a case with the garage who changed my timing belt? I am having the acura dealer take pictures of everything, so by tomorrow I should know more.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

um... do they have a warranty of any sort? on the timing belt or the tensioner or their work? do you still have the bill?

If so you may have a case depending on how much shit you can and are willing to sturr (if u know what i mean)

pits200

Trust me, out of principle, I am going to make someones life hell for making me go through this. Depending on the extent of the damage I will have to decide the path I am going to take.

I think their warranty only covers 1 yr 12k miles. I have a Honda timing belt and water pump at my house that I offered for them to use instead of their parts which I think are napa. The shop is called Matta Motors in Pittsburgh and are suppose to be a very reputable Honda shop.

Their website states these exact words.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]

Timing Belt Prices: Click Here
Note: Some vehicles do not require timing belt service.

* Your timing belt needs replaced if your vehicle has reached 105,000 miles, or is 8 years old or older. Don't get talked into replacing the belt earlier than needed.

* We install more than 200 timing belts annually - who do you think should install your next timing belt?

They even state in the first paragraph that don't let someone talk you into changing the timing belt earlier..

I have been looking through the forums to see of any instances of a broken timing belt and I have not found any.

I guess I will be getting a new car sooner than expected.

I was cruising along at 70mph, does anyone think I'll have extensive engine damage?

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

so if i take off my oil cap i can see my valves?

u need to take off the valve cover. but a timing belt breaking will result in some bent valves. only why to see fore sure is to take out the valves. a small bend in the valve will keep getting worse and worse.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

I'd have to guess it's messed a lot of stuff up at that speed.

does the motor turn over fine, sound badd??

my buddys timing belt JUST snapped on his acura integra and he just started it up and WAMMO, luckily no damage,

but I can only imagine it would have bent some valve(s) but i could be wrong.

pits200

Ha, my fault, not the valves through the oil cap. I was typing fast and didn't pay attention. that'd be a pretty easy way to tell if they were bent i guess, if you could see them through the oil cap.. lol.

I guess the rockers weren't moving. right? rockers, im not the best when it comes to internal engine work, I'll be the first to admit.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

rockers wont move at all if the belt is broken.

pits200

I knew I was stating wrong. I suppose that's what he saw when he looked inside the case through the oil cap hole while I gave the engine a small crank.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

good thing is that u can pick up our engine any where from $500-700 depending on condition and mileage.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

so the belt that broke was a shop supplied belt (possibly napa parts)? see what the warranty is on the belt.

Good thing im using all honda parts for my 105k

pits200

So are you saying I shouldn't have them change the timing belt first? I guess that is the only way they can perform a leakdown test or compression test.

I am going after the shop who installed my timing belt 45k miles ago. I want to have all the evidence so I can file a small claims court suit against the shop who did the work.

pits200

And how much would it cost to replace an engine?

pits200

I had both the Honda water pump and timing belt but the shop insisted on using their own parts.

If it's a napa part, it says limited lifetime for as long as the owner who had the part installed is the owner of the vehicle.

Not sure what caused the belt to snap though, hopefully tomorrow morning the tech will be able to give me more info..

Im so heated, I pity the fool who gives me more bad news tonight

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

t-belt tensioner replaced? that can cause the belt to snap

pits200

I don't have the entire bill in front of me, but im pretty sure the tensioner was replaced from what I can remember. Im 95% sure that it was because it wasn't a very expensive part so I just told them to go ahead to be on the safe side. A lot of good that did me.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

The motor wont turn over since the timing belt is broken...I am pretty sure the car wont get air since the valvetrain isnt moving yeah it will have spark and fuel, but all that will do is flood the motor and bend the valves more if they aren't

VIPCLS

Sorry for your loss man! I asked a mechanic once what would happen if the belt was to break and he said. " If the belt was to break while starting, you might be ok, if you were going like 60+ and it was to break you would likely have valve damage and would have to replace the engine". So good luck.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

going 10over will cause engine damage.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

won't new head job fix the issue tho???

then he can pnp the whole intake system and have a better car than b4 ;-)

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

depends there might be damage to the pistons as well.

pits200

Sounds like the engine is all but done... The timing belt is being replaced tonight so that should cost around 700.

After that, I may get the car towed home and if the shop who worked on the car doesn't come up with a VERY reasonable solution, I'll be taking them to court and have to drive my leased 08 TL for work.

I loved this car.

tnobori1

No need to break out the past-tense yet... Keep the hope alive!

CH46ESeaKnight

If it is a interference motor, (which i'm pretty sure it is) then it does not matter what speed. If the piston is going to hit a valve it will hit a valve no matter the speed. If the belt breaks while at idle it will still smash the piston into a valve.

Speed is irrelevant at this point.

Also even if there is a NAPA limited lifetime warranty on the timing belt, they are only going to cover the cost to replace the belt. They are very unlikely going to cover and damages resulting from the belt failure.



I would make sure i got the broken belt and look for signs of improper install, maybe like chaffing along the edges of the belt.

Good luck

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

it is an interference motor

pits200

That's what I figured about the belt, that $30some odd dollars for the belt will really do me a lot of help..

I don't know what to do.. If I don't fix the car, how much could I really sell it for. Or do I drop $3k and drive it longer when there is still the ever prevalent tranny issue.

I have the car paid off and I have another car to drive. I work to much to have this as a project car and turn it into a 3.5 conversion. I have no idea what to do..

pimpin-tl

The shop is responsible as it should have lasted. IMHO, how do you know they even replaced the belt? The dealer should know by the brand marked on the belt once they pull it out. If it's still a Honda belt, and looks hold, then you know that place lied. And I am thinking that might be what is going on as any belt shouldn't break with only 45k miles.

pits200

Ok, I am at the dealership as we speak and the problem has been found.

IMPROPER INSTALLATION OF THE WATER PUMP.

The tech pulled everything apart and it was found that one of the hinge bolts holding on the water pump sheered off while driving due to over torque. The bolt was torqued so much that it left a mark on the opposite side of the water pump.

The water pump spun off after the bolt broke off and the rest is history.

I do have bent valves like everyone says but the car is runnable and should get me home to pittsburgh.

The first thing the guy said to me when I came in this morning was, "you definitely have a lawsuit against the shop who installed the timing belt"

Now the lawsuit begins unless all issues are taken care of asap.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

yea my buddy who has his belt break while starting his motor, was told the belt was replaced when he bought the car. car has/had 270000 kms on it n ORIGINAL timing belt!!! on a 94 integra!!!

people are scammers big time bro.

I bet they looked at ur belt and were like... this looks mint fuck changin it.

I know people at shops who see others who do that!!!! absolutely retarted people out there man.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

Law suite ftw. New engine, time off work.

Take many pics. And talk to corprate about it

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

contact the bureau of automotive repair to help you with the case if the shop wont comply with your demands.

im getting my 105k done in 2 weeks so I'll mention torque specs to my mechanic. sucks that your guy didnt follow the specs and probably just torqued it by hand instead of using a torque wrench. Makes you wonder what else he didnt use the torque wrench on.

pits200

I was able to drive my car but it accelerates like garbage and I could see the gas gauge go down as I was driving.

I am going to take this to an Acura dealership to have them pull the head off.

I know there are bent valves, but what else could be messed up but still let the car drive.

I called the shop and they said that they will not honor anything since I am outside the warranty range.

TheWeez

You can file a suit but it's not gonna be worth it. The costs you will incur alone will offset any of the < $5k that you'll get from the shop for a new motor. Lesson learned that you should always goto a very reputable repair shop and move on seems the best way to go about things.

RUF87

Of course that's what they'll say. But the issue isn't due to a faulty belt failing prematurely. It's because of improper installation on their part, and that's the case you'll need to make and prove. Hopefully it won't be to hard to prove.

I've had a dealer (David McDavid Acura Plano) screw up twice on the same problem. They claimed he was one of their best tech, but had egg on their face when proved they screwed up.

Ruf

RUF87

You can take them to small claims court on your own, but you need to be sure someone can prove they screwed up the install. You can also drive around town with lemon stickers on your car (with screws in it) and drive by their shop. When they see that they'll get pissed and can settle or you'll keep driving around. It sounds crazy, but I personally know of a case where I work many moons ago and the dealer settled.

Ruf

pits200

Thanks all.. I have a personal lawyer who will handle this for free, so there will be no expense on that portion.

Like Ruf stated, small claims court will be sufficient for the amount I am looking for.

As for proving it, the tech who worked on the car at the Acura dealership is so confident he just told me he would sign a sworn affidavit that this issue occurred from improper installation and that was the sole reason for the timing belt failure.

As for them saying its out of warranty, I know its a game they're trying to play, who wants to pony up $4,000. A warranty is valid if installation is done properly, they void their right to that claim once the installation is done improperly.

As for proof, the opposite side of the water pump has a huge indentation that is protruding out showing how much the bolt was over tourqued and the sheered off bolt is still inside the water pump.

The guy at the shop who did the initial work told me "sometimes bolts fail" hence I followed up with the question, "how many have you seen". Of course he didn't have an answer.

As for being a reputable shop, this place seriously HAD a good reputation. They focus solely on Hondas and I thought they knew their stuff.

Either way, if you live in Pittsburgh, pa. Buyer Beware on MATTA MOTORS in Glassport, pa

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

lol yea man like the Acura mechanic who did my tranny he said when he was first starting out in the late 80s, he was building a trans and the guy supervising gave him an IMPACT gun to do the whole tranny!!!

and that was at a dealership!

just goes to show you that trust must be EARNED and not given to those who simply "have a rep".

Reps are meaningless unless you personally can vouche for it.

pits200

True, but I am not one to have others work on my car very often.. So rep is all I have to go by when I decide to have a shop work on my car.

Hindsight is always 20/20..

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

well I am the exact same way but I met a mechanic who did LOTS of work on CLs through my Dealership. So we went for a test drive to find something out with my car and we just shot the shit for like 10 mins and then I asked him if he did work on the side and wamoo. done

pits200

Would I be able to just buy a 3.5L mdx engine and drop it into this car? What else would I need, there are sooo many 3.5l conversion threads that I'm totally lost.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

u still need to reuse ur heads, i believe.