SIRSIG Jerking...
07-12-2007, 01:58 AM
#1
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
SIRSIG Jerking...
I don't really want to open another thread, but i didn't get much help on the old thread when i post. Apparently there's other people out there who's having a similar problem...
once in a while, i'm getting some hesitation on mid RPM range (4000-5500), feels like tapping on brake 3X (jerking feel), but after i pass 5000 it goes normal and when i shift on redline there'll be no hesitation dunno maybe because it falls right back on 5500. It feels like a turbo just kicked in after 5500
no codes were pulled out on the OBD2 reading
so far i have done the following:
---changed mounts (custom mounts installed)
---changed axles (both refurbished OEM)
---changed spark plugs (from IK20 to IK22)
---checked the coils (no fouled coils detected)
---valve adjustment (followed factory specs...)
---seafoamed
i've also dynoed the car and here's the graph:
Yellow line is my current one. As you can see, there's a big dip right between 4000-5500 RPM
i also have a video during the dyno, but my cam crap out just now and i can't upload the vid 
but there you can hear the engine going crazy upon WOT 
i'm guessing the following:
---bad map sensor? (found oil residue around it...)
---bad ps/sc tensioner? (i doubt this is the problem, but i caught the sc belt jumping outside the pulley, twice already.)
---bad a/f mixture? (e-manage need to be re-tuned?)
---synchro? (it doesn't pop out on gears, clutch and tranny seems to hold up pretty strong...)
---flex pipe leak?
---squirrels? (I don't think so...)
so, i'm not sure if the water pump and timing belt tensioner (recall) has something to do with it, if so i'm fucked coz my warranty expired
j/k
sorry about the title just thinking of a catchy phrase hoping you guys can help me solve this problem
once in a while, i'm getting some hesitation on mid RPM range (4000-5500), feels like tapping on brake 3X (jerking feel), but after i pass 5000 it goes normal and when i shift on redline there'll be no hesitation dunno maybe because it falls right back on 5500. It feels like a turbo just kicked in after 5500
no codes were pulled out on the OBD2 readingso far i have done the following:
---changed mounts (custom mounts installed)
---changed axles (both refurbished OEM)
---changed spark plugs (from IK20 to IK22)
---checked the coils (no fouled coils detected)
---valve adjustment (followed factory specs...)
---seafoamed
i've also dynoed the car and here's the graph:
Yellow line is my current one. As you can see, there's a big dip right between 4000-5500 RPM
i also have a video during the dyno, but my cam crap out just now and i can't upload the vid but there you can hear the engine going crazy upon WOT i'm guessing the following:
---bad map sensor? (found oil residue around it...)
---bad ps/sc tensioner? (i doubt this is the problem, but i caught the sc belt jumping outside the pulley, twice already.)
---bad a/f mixture? (e-manage need to be re-tuned?)
---synchro? (it doesn't pop out on gears, clutch and tranny seems to hold up pretty strong...)
---flex pipe leak?
---squirrels? (I don't think so...)
so, i'm not sure if the water pump and timing belt tensioner (recall) has something to do with it, if so i'm fucked coz my warranty expired
j/ksorry about the title just thinking of a catchy phrase hoping you guys can help me solve this problem
07-12-2007, 02:59 AM
#2
You should definitely get all the minor stuff done first Siggy, that rear exhaust leak doesn't help.
I think the key thing here to note is the fact that your torque almost seems to correct itself upon VTEC engaging, that must mean something. I think its a lack of airflow of some sort.
Siggy when you get a chance check and see when your VTEC is set to engage.
Right now I feel like saying they changed your VTEC to 3800 and did not adjust the unmatch for it, although with supercharged cars I thought it would matter less with the air being forced into the cylinders and not merely relying on NA vauum.
Its not going to be a limit of fuel or ignition problems since those seem to exhibit high end symptoms more then anything else.
I think the key thing here to note is the fact that your torque almost seems to correct itself upon VTEC engaging, that must mean something. I think its a lack of airflow of some sort.
Siggy when you get a chance check and see when your VTEC is set to engage.
Right now I feel like saying they changed your VTEC to 3800 and did not adjust the unmatch for it, although with supercharged cars I thought it would matter less with the air being forced into the cylinders and not merely relying on NA vauum.
Its not going to be a limit of fuel or ignition problems since those seem to exhibit high end symptoms more then anything else.
07-12-2007, 12:46 PM
#3
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
i'll probably look into that leak... but isn't that to small to cause this problem? and why only at mid range?
look at the blue line. that was my old dyno and vtec seems to kick in at 4800RPM. I'm not exactly sure if Shawn's guy changed the vtec point on my current one, but seems like it on my a/f mixture
look at the blue line. that was my old dyno and vtec seems to kick in at 4800RPM. I'm not exactly sure if Shawn's guy changed the vtec point on my current one, but seems like it on my a/f mixture
07-13-2007, 12:09 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
what you're describing sounds exactly like fuel cut that will occur at vtec change over factory on cl 4800 (dont know where you have yours set) almost alway from low oil level/pressure as the selinoid is oil pressure acctuated
07-14-2007, 02:45 AM
#7
Originally Posted by NightRider
Have you established the actuator valve is working correctly? Also, I thought it was a normal characteristic even with F/I to lean out as vtec kicked in.
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07-14-2007, 02:46 AM
#8
Originally Posted by typeR
what you're describing sounds exactly like fuel cut that will occur at vtec change over factory on cl 4800 (dont know where you have yours set) almost alway from low oil level/pressure as the selinoid is oil pressure acctuated
07-14-2007, 08:08 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
What do you mean by a fuel cut at VTEC engagement? Are you implying that the fuel is momentarily cut?
07-14-2007, 05:43 PM
#12
Intersting, my car is having the same issues. I noticed it in my trip to Cali. As my friend was following, he stated that it looked as if I was burning oil (white blueish smoke). At around 5500 my car kicks in like crazy, but roughly 4k-5.4k my car felt slow as hell. If I blew this motor too, then that will really suck for me. Cause I was just in Cali where my spare engine is at.
I guess the first thing to do is replace the vtec pressure solenoid valve.
I guess the first thing to do is replace the vtec pressure solenoid valve.
07-14-2007, 06:08 PM
#13
So is it this part?
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...RE_SWITCH_ASSY.
Or this one?
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...NOID_VALVE_SET
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...RE_SWITCH_ASSY.
Or this one?
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...NOID_VALVE_SET
07-14-2007, 09:29 PM
#14
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by typeR
what you're describing sounds exactly like fuel cut that will occur at vtec change over factory on cl 4800 (dont know where you have yours set) almost alway from low oil level/pressure as the selinoid is oil pressure acctuated
Originally Posted by CleanCL
vtec is oil pressure based, so low oil will result in low pressure, the vtec pressure solenoid can be bad too, if it's detecting ANY low pressure at all it will fuel cut.
how do they go bad? aged or dirt? easy replacement?
Originally Posted by mrsteve
What typer and CleanCL posted was my initial gut feeling.
heck, i even read some of ya'll first threads 
Originally Posted by JBlueCLS6
Not to get you even more worried. I started experiencing the same symptoms probably a month before my piston rings fried.
dude, is that why you're car won't turn? Sorry to hear that, but, did you get that hesitation feel already and eventually got worse or it just happened one day?
Originally Posted by Cocoa
Intersting, my car is having the same issues. I noticed it in my trip to Cali. As my friend was following, he stated that it looked as if I was burning oil (white blueish smoke). At around 5500 my car kicks in like crazy, but roughly 4k-5.4k my car felt slow as hell. If I blew this motor too, then that will really suck for me. Cause I was just in Cali where my spare engine is at.
I guess the first thing to do is replace the vtec pressure solenoid valve.
I guess the first thing to do is replace the vtec pressure solenoid valve.
i'll get the leaking pipes and the solenoid check this Moday and get back at you guys
thanks for the replies...
07-15-2007, 01:50 AM
#16
Originally Posted by CleanCL
vtec is oil pressure based, so low oil will result in low pressure, the vtec pressure solenoid can be bad too, if it's detecting ANY low pressure at all it will fuel cut.
07-15-2007, 02:18 AM
#17
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Still don't get it, why would it fuel cut before VTEC is supposed to kick in and when it does everything pretty much goes back to normal? Wouldn't it just prevent VTEC from kicking in?
07-15-2007, 03:31 AM
#18
Originally Posted by SIRSIG
i think the sc compensate the lost vtec power after that, that's why it goes smooth again. The car run erratically on vtec point maybe because that's where the power starts and the ecu is going crazy when eveytime it detects "low oil" that's when ECU cut the fuel... But, again i'm not so sure about eveyrthing i said
Why would the SC be compensating only in the high end and not the mid range if your boosting normally from what I remember you telling me.
It serioulsy seems to me that your VTEC is set too low, but generally holds true for NA cars, and I thought with your SC and all, that VTEC wouldn't matter as much, but im not too certain about that.
07-15-2007, 12:09 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Question is: Will the oil pressure be low enough to not activate VTEC yet not light up the oil light?
07-15-2007, 08:06 PM
#22
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Thats true too, but if the solenoid was fouled then would it not just prevent VTEC from engaging and leave the midrange below 4800rpms alone?
07-16-2007, 01:54 AM
#23
Originally Posted by typeR
yes everything below 4800 would be unaffected...however...almost always...its low oil level !
07-16-2007, 03:19 AM
#24
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
i don't think they changed my vtec point when they dynoed the car. i'll be at Church's tomorrow @ 12n to re-dyno/tune the car after i check/changed the solenoid and cat...
'found this interesting article about vtec
'found this interesting article about vtec
When driving the vehicle with the rpm high enough for VTEC operation, the engine control module (ECM) operates the variable valve timing solenoid to open the solenoid and allow oil pressure to be applied to the pistons in the intake rocker arms. This action causes the outer rocker arms to be pinned to the middle rocker arm and now the three rocker arms operate as a unit, using the high-lift camshaft lobe for improved high-end power. When the engine rpm drops below VTEC operation, the VTEC solenoid is not energized and hydraulic oil pressure is turned off. This allows the return spring to return the pistons to their rest position and lets the rocker arms operate independently again. The VTEC transition between low and high rpm is smooth and normally not felt by the driver.
The ECM also looks at other inputs for VTEC operation - engine temp, engine oil pressure and vehicle speed (VTEC does not turn on unless the vehicle is moving). A separate oil pressure switch monitors the VTEC system. If a problem occurs, the ECM can turn off VTEC operation and will set a code, turning on the "check engine" light. In some cases, it can also cause a driveability problem.
The VTEC oil pressure switch is a normally closed switch. The ECM sends a voltage to the switch and expects the voltage to go through the switch to ground. If the ECM reads a voltage on that circuit when the VTEC system should not be operating, it will turn on the "check engine" light and set a code. This code will be a P1259 on a vehicle with OBD-II.
When the ECM energizes the VTEC solenoid valve to turn on the VTEC system, the ECM expects the VTEC oil pressure switch to open and see the voltage on the circuit. If there is a delay with oil pressure opening the switch, the ECM will set a trouble code and may limit fuel delivery, causing a driveability problem.
Reasons for no VTEC operation include low engine oil level, VTEC solenoid not opening or the screen behind it is restricted, an engine that has low oil pressure, or an oil pressure leak to the rocker arm assembly. In some cases, when engine work is performed, a missing or damaged O-ring can cause incorrect oil pressure to the VTEC system.
When diagnosing a trouble code P1259, always look at freeze-frame data. This data will tell you if the code is set at high or low engine rpm. If the code is set below 4,000 to 6,000 rpm (depending on the engine), check the oil pressure switch circuit for a faulty switch/connection or poor ground. When the code sets during VTEC operation, check for an oil pressure or mechanical problem with the VTEC system.
The ECM also looks at other inputs for VTEC operation - engine temp, engine oil pressure and vehicle speed (VTEC does not turn on unless the vehicle is moving). A separate oil pressure switch monitors the VTEC system. If a problem occurs, the ECM can turn off VTEC operation and will set a code, turning on the "check engine" light. In some cases, it can also cause a driveability problem.
The VTEC oil pressure switch is a normally closed switch. The ECM sends a voltage to the switch and expects the voltage to go through the switch to ground. If the ECM reads a voltage on that circuit when the VTEC system should not be operating, it will turn on the "check engine" light and set a code. This code will be a P1259 on a vehicle with OBD-II.
When the ECM energizes the VTEC solenoid valve to turn on the VTEC system, the ECM expects the VTEC oil pressure switch to open and see the voltage on the circuit. If there is a delay with oil pressure opening the switch, the ECM will set a trouble code and may limit fuel delivery, causing a driveability problem.
Reasons for no VTEC operation include low engine oil level, VTEC solenoid not opening or the screen behind it is restricted, an engine that has low oil pressure, or an oil pressure leak to the rocker arm assembly. In some cases, when engine work is performed, a missing or damaged O-ring can cause incorrect oil pressure to the VTEC system.
When diagnosing a trouble code P1259, always look at freeze-frame data. This data will tell you if the code is set at high or low engine rpm. If the code is set below 4,000 to 6,000 rpm (depending on the engine), check the oil pressure switch circuit for a faulty switch/connection or poor ground. When the code sets during VTEC operation, check for an oil pressure or mechanical problem with the VTEC system.
07-16-2007, 10:20 AM
#25
Senior Moderator
btw i also experienced a failed CAT and this caused a complete loss of power up high...surgeing an erratic bahavior...at cruise all seemed normal
07-16-2007, 01:03 PM
#26
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by typeR
btw i also experienced a failed CAT and this caused a complete loss of power up high...surgeing an erratic bahavior...at cruise all seemed normal
*i know* not sure if i still need that o2 sensor there, but i think it was moved... going to the muffler shop... parts are coming tomorrow
07-16-2007, 07:25 PM
#27
Originally Posted by SIRSIG
i don't think they changed my vtec point when they dynoed the car. i'll be at Church's tomorrow @ 12n to re-dyno/tune the car after i check/changed the solenoid and cat...
'found this interesting article about vtec
'found this interesting article about vtec
Hey siggy, let me know if it was your solenoid, and see if you can get me one as well. I'll paypal you the money. I'm afraid I'll buy the wrong one, I've been looking online. But skeptical as to which one I should get.
07-17-2007, 03:24 AM
#28
I'll try and be there at Churches as soon as I can but I need to drive my dad to the hospital lfor his check up after his surgery and he needs to be there at 11:30. Its only about 15 miles away.
Well I got a stock cat laying around if you need one.
Well I got a stock cat laying around if you need one.
07-17-2007, 03:40 AM
#29
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
I'll try and be there at Churches as soon as I can but I need to drive my dad to the hospital lfor his check up after his surgery and he needs to be there at 11:30. Its only about 15 miles away.
Well I got a stock cat laying around if you need one.
Well I got a stock cat laying around if you need one.
Chris, i'll let you know what part number it is when i get it later this morning
07-17-2007, 02:15 PM
#31
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
i'm backkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
with the same problem but not as bad as before tho...
ok, i've changed the solenoid, cleaned the solenoid valve filter and had the flexpipe leak fix. I didn't changed nor tested the switch i forgot
. Will do that later, but If there's nothing wrong with the switch, What's next? Timing belt? Water pump? My theory is that the belt might have been jump one tooth maybe because of all these mods that i put... is that a possiblilty?
with the same problem
but not as bad as before tho...ok, i've changed the solenoid, cleaned the solenoid valve filter and had the flexpipe leak fix. I didn't changed nor tested the switch i forgot
. Will do that later, but If there's nothing wrong with the switch, What's next? Timing belt? Water pump? My theory is that the belt might have been jump one tooth maybe because of all these mods that i put... is that a possiblilty?
07-17-2007, 03:24 PM
#32
Originally Posted by SIRSIG
i'm backkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
with the same problem but not as bad as before tho...
ok, i've changed the solenoid, cleaned the solenoid valve filter and had the flexpipe leak fix. I didn't changed nor tested the switch i forgot . Will do that later, but If there's nothing wrong with the switch, What's next? Timing belt? Water pump? My theory is that the belt might have been jump one tooth maybe because of all these mods that i put... is that a possiblilty?
with the same problem
but not as bad as before tho...ok, i've changed the solenoid, cleaned the solenoid valve filter and had the flexpipe leak fix. I didn't changed nor tested the switch i forgot
. Will do that later, but If there's nothing wrong with the switch, What's next? Timing belt? Water pump? My theory is that the belt might have been jump one tooth maybe because of all these mods that i put... is that a possiblilty?
07-17-2007, 03:30 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Cocoa
Do you have a walbro fuel pump? They are known to go bad. I have one too, and it had been making some strangely loud noises at times during my trip.
07-17-2007, 04:15 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Thats an interesting point since the one I sold with my SC kit went bad, and might have been partly to blame for my 3.0 blowing up. However I feel that the high end would have been more disturbed by a fuel pump having difficulties working properly versus just the midrange.
07-17-2007, 04:17 PM
#36
THE J35A2...
Thread Starter
not really sure what's the problem, it pulls hard pass 5000rpm. i tried it on the freeway after installing the solenoid, and it feels like a turbo spooling after 5Krpm.
07-17-2007, 04:24 PM
#37
Originally Posted by SIRSIG
not really sure what's the problem, it pulls hard pass 5000rpm. i tried it on the freeway after installing the solenoid, and it feels like a turbo spooling after 5Krpm.