Acurazine,

(supercharged CL-S 6)
The car started up.. BUT right upon start up, died. The RPMs dropped down to 0 as if the car couldn't stabilize the idle and gave up.

Tried starting a couple times, slightly revving to 1-2000 RPM to keep the engine from dying, and eventually.. car would stabilize. I drive a couple feet, and car would die again when RPMs drop below idle.

My walbro fuel pump seems to be whining quite loud. I know the walbro pump is already loud to begin with, but I do believe that the noise is now louder than it had been before.

Usually, right before a fuel pumps fails, it gets much louder. A fuel pump sounds like a high pitched whine, as the little gears inside of the unit pump fuel to the engine.

I've been reading about the pgm-fi main relay and how its soldering connections would over heat and crack, causing problems with sending power to the fuel pump.

Replacing the relay seems to be the cheaper, and most common fix for this kind of problem. However, the excessive walbro pump noise is causing me to worry.

Could a bad/intermittently functioning relay cause excessive whine in a fuel pump?

If I have a fuel pump issue, I am worried about running lean.
If the fuel pump dies during high rpm operation, or when high fuel pressure is required, then it can cause catastrophic engine damage.

Any opinions? advice? Does anyone know how to diagnose my issue?

Here are some other threads I have looked into.. for more information on a situation simliar to mine.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/car-wont-f-%40king-start-daily-driver-488087/

 

low compression cuased by a fuel issue or blown ring lands

 

How is low compression caused by a fuel issue? fuel delivery? electrical? mechanical? relay? or fuel pump..

As for you're theory on blown ring lands.. blown rings could have been caused by running rich with the comptech ESM and without a proper tune, thereby thinning the oil, and causing ring wear... which could in turn cause low compression.. But I've only had the supercharger for 3 months.. I doubt that I could have caused that much wear to my engine in that span of a time.

My fuel pressure guage still reads the same psi as it had before. I just got back from a drive.. and when driving, everything seems fine. It didn't have trouble starting this time though.. Maybe cause the car had a couple hours to cool.

I'm beginning to think its the fuel relay..

 

my walbro fuel pump is quiet.

 

If you turn your key to the on position and don't start it, does your fuel pump run until the system is pressurized and then shut off or is it constantly running?

I would think your fuel gauge would give you the story of what's going on if the relay or pump were bad/going bad.

 

When I turn the key to the key-on-position.. the fuel pump primes itself (whines) and pressurizes the system, and then stops (or as you say shuts off).. It doesn't constantly run after it whines (primes) for about a second or two.

When the guage gets power, the guage does its start-up thing and goes from 0 up to 100 psi or whatever the max pressure is, then goes back down and steadies at 30 psi.. I've always thought that this was normal.

How would the fuel pressure guage behave if the relay was going bad?.. and how would it behave if the pump is going bad?

 

how quiet?

you don't hear a high pitched whine when you put your ear to the driver's rear wheel?

I mean.. it's not loud loud.. but I can definitely hear it.. even when I first installed it..

 

Here is my thread regarding this anomaly: See below for the differences.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/fuel-pump-install-731223/

When my six speed would not start, the usual fuel pump prime noise was not there. Therefore, I thought right away that it was probably the fuel pump relay.

In my experience it is, this did not occur as well. Once again, the thought of the fuel pump relay came to mind. I purchased the fuel pump relay and installed it. No results at all. No prime noise, no guage action. Now I am thinking fuel pump.

One would think that if the fuel pump relay were functional, then the signal would reach the fuel pump; however, if the fuel pump is not functional (but still receiving the normal fuel relay signal) then it would not prime (logicly) with pressure to register on the fuel guage. Therefore, no fuel pump guage action would occur. If that make sense.

When I installed the new fuel pump the prime noise before ignition and my fuel pressure guage action returned to 30-35 psi and the car started and starts to this day with no problem. Maybe, in my case both the fuel relay and the fuel pump took a dump at the same time.

Replace fuel pump relay: See what happens. ( If you have high miles like mine, 100K+ then it is a good piece of mind to update the fuel relay, plus I live in FL and it is hot as hell and heat is not a friend to your car)
If no favorable results, think fuel pump.

Replace fuel pump and pray. If it still does not work, then I am stumped.

 

Thanks for sharing with me your fuel pump/relay trouble shooting experience. It gave me some insight as to where I stand with my own issue.

I started the car up this morning, and it started up fine. I am still hearing the fuel pump prime, which tells me the relay is relaying power, and that the fuel pump is still functional (for now)..

My concern now, however, is an intermittent problem perhaps with the pump or relay.. which is much harder to diagnose since it doesn't happen all the time.

As far as I know.. every time I go to the key-on position, the fuel pump primes.. tells me that the relay is most likely good..

Damn.. Any other components that would cause a start then die issue? Fouled spark plugs from running rich for 3 months?

I've read that if the oil pressure is off for some reason, the fuel pump would shut off.. (safety precaution for cars overturned in accidents)

Right when I was having the start and die issue, I tried revving higher to 3-4k RPMs to keep the car running, and remember that it didn't rev normally.. like it was starved for fuel.. perhaps detonating..?

Car runs perfectly fine now.. Should I just keep driving until I get stuck somewhere? or should i not risk anything and do something about it.. what should that something about it be? Shiettt

 

Look at all your grounding points. Make sure they are clean and make good contact. Faulty grounds cause very wierd issues.

 

I'll look into that..

Possible theory:
I changed my oil, and while I was at it, I also tightened the tension on the supercharger belt. Before tightening, there was approximately 1" deflection. I adjusted the tensioner to the proper deflection of about 1/2".

I remember when I first installed the supercharger, the car died on me, since the ECU did not know how to adjust to the sudden change in power, fuel, etc.. After driving for a while, the ECU found its "optimal running state," and never had a shut off issue until now.

I am thinking that after adjusting the belt tension.. the ECU had to re-find its optimal running conditions (fuel trim, etc.) to adjust to the change.

Does any one think that this is possible?

I went outside again today.. and the fuel pump was quieter than it was yesterday in the midst of the shut-off problem.

Hopefully, all is well now. Will update if and when the problem returns.

 

I know how you feel. Mines a daily driver, and to say the least, I do not need to be left stranded in a bad part of town for any reason let alone with a car full of performance goodies.

I hear you brah, that's when the interior of the car is cool; however, remember that the other AZine posters that had the fuel relay issue mentioned that the problem presented itself when the car had been sitting in the sun, heating up the interior/relay under the driver dash. Those solderings around the electronic components in the relay may pull away just enough to interrupt contact and thus cause the start-up problems. However, it's hard to tell, because you say you are hearing the FP prime.

You can get the fuel relay 39400-S84-003 at the link below for about $52.95 shipped.
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/jsp/home.jsp

The cheapest Walbro #GSS342 I could quickly find was at Summit for $79.95, figure about $10 shipping to Philly.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/VPN-GSS342/

Thus, for about $143.00 you have piece of mind with these two new fuel related components. If you can install the S/C, install of these will be a breeze.

That's the bitch about diagnosis. You have to start somewhere, unless someone can pin point it to a T.

Not sure on this. Usually, the ECU comes into play when power has been interrupted at the battery end. I've adjusted my belt many times and took the car out for spirited pulls with no performance issues.

What was the temp. up there when you started the car?

Good Luck

 

Tightening the belt should have no effect on idle. I don't adjust tension by gauging deflection. I use the twist method. You should be able to twist the belt at least 45 degrees but no more than 90 degrees.

Next time your car acts up, pay close attention to what the fuel gauge is doing. If it's the relay, the pump wouldn't be receiving power and pressure should drop to zero. If your fuel pressure is erratic, could be a bad pump or a problem with your FPR.