ReverendDanTPF

I'm driving a 2003 CL Type S (Auto tranny, rebuilt in 2009) with around 97,000 miles. Just bought it used.

So, when I took my car to the stealership to get the tranny fluid changed (trying to keep this tranny alive as long as possible), their diagnostic said (among other things) that the lower ball joints were loose and needed changing.

Took it to my mechanic, after pulling off the wheels, he saw service bulletin # 06-015 "Replaceable Ball Joints":

"Inspect the base of the existing ball joint before beginning repair work. If the ball joint is not stamped with the letter 'B,' then you can replace only the ball joint. If the letter 'B' is stamped on the base, disregard this service bulletin and replace the entire knuckle assembly."

My ball joints have "BK09" stamped on them. Is this what the TSB's referring to?

So, now they want to change both front knuckles (~$240 each from the stealership), the bearings (~$82 each), and hubs (~$62 each). Parts and labor, around $1,100. Ouch. I can save around $300 by buying parts online, but I want to make SURE before dumping this kind of money into a car I just bought.

I saw Pits' DIY: https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/axle-nut-what-hell-486851/

I also saw other people confused about this:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/noise-left-front-steering-help-770897/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/ball-joint-loose-767203/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/replacing-ball-joints-got-few-s-477021/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/ball-joint-question-need-advice-699457/

So...

1) Does the TSB apply to my "BK09" ball joints?
2) Should I replace the whole knuckle like it says?
3) Do I need to change out the bearings and hubs if I do?
4) What would you do?
5) I don't hear any sounds coming from the steering... will I be OK driving on these "loose ball joints" for a couple of weeks while I order parts online?

Thanks for your help!

zeta

iTrader: (1)

You may want to try and find a small Acura/Honda shop for a second opinion on the condition of the ball joints. Dealerships have a tendency to see BIG $$ signs when they have a car with high mileage come in and want to give you the works.

Yes, I just did this to mine (CLS-6) at 117K miles. I purchased the knuckles at MagAuto.com; $166.75 each, plus like $30 shipping all together. Funny thing was that the machine shop guy said he could of pressed new BJ's into the old knuckles for a fraction of the cost. Why this TSB applies to "B" stamped ball joints only would be an interesting question for anyone on here (forum) who may have a plausible answer. It's up to you on how to proceed.

I changed the bearings only because of the mileage on my car. I puchased them (NSK wheel bearing $47.94 ea. $7.50 shipping) on the link below for a fraction of what the dealer wanted:

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...l_bearing.html

If your hubs are in good condition I would reuse them. Mine looked fine at 117K.
This is a command decision you'll have to make. My ball joints were getting bad at the time and I did not want to stress them anymore then I had to. If they go while driving, it can be very dangerous and loss of control could occur.

In addition, you could always take a chance and reuse the old knuckles and have a reputable machine shop press in new ball joints. So far, I have not seen anyone admit/post that they had done this.

Good luck.

Nersh7

I recently replaced mine and definitely did not need to replace the entire knuckle, just the ball joints.

The reason why they say you need to is because they have to be pressed on, if you can find a shop that can do that replacing them is cheap.

Cost me under $100 for the whole deal

ReverendDanTPF

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

Yeah, I think I'll be taking zeta's advice and take it to a Honda/Acura specialist before I do anything. Although, my mechanic DID confirm that the lower BJ's needed changing...

I've got an appointment for Thursday at Carmen's Honda and Acura Service (in Cranford, NJ). Anyone have any experience with that shop? The steering seems pretty solid, so hopefully I'll be okay driving on it for a week or two... worst case scenario, the front wheels fly off while I'm driving.

That will, at least, be a story to tell. Hah.

Did yours have the "B" stamped on the ball joints, Nersh?

Nersh7

Don't remember, but its in the same production year so I imagine it would be the same

ReverendDanTPF

I would LOVE to know the answer to this question. The stealership that my mechanic called for some info about this "B" situation said that a guy had tried changing his "B"-stamped ball joints, and the replacement joints didn't fit into the original knuckle.

I may try finding a shop to stamp in just the ball joints and let you know how it goes, but anyone have an answer to this?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

The 'fitment' of replacement ball joints my very well be the main issue for these knuckles originally factory fitted (for the lack of a better word) with the "B" stamped BJ's.

In fact, logically, it must have something to do with it because if you look at the knuckle itself, it's pretty evident that the only major holes machined into it are for either the wheel bearing, upper BJ, or the lower ball joint. Maybe the diameter is of a smaller/larger size for any of the typical aftermarket replacement BJ's available.

So, therefore, it may be VERY difficult to press in a new BJ if the diameter of the hole is smaller. Or, a typical new replacement BJ could be pressed in relatively easy because the hole is larger by a few thousandths. Thus, with the load the joint has to tolerate at that point, it may fail prematurely due to stress. There must be a rationale for the TSB.

If I had the time, I suppose I could purchase a Moog BJ and experiment with the fitment for one of my old knuckles. However, even if I could get the new BJ to fit, that would only disprove the fitment part.
(The machine shop guy I go to is pretty confident that he could get any bearing/balljoint pressed in with the hydraulic equipment he has. BUT would it be SAFE.) The safety/reliability part (in my mind the most important part) would still be under question because the knuckle would not be placed in service to measure that test. A little over thinking on my part; however, it would be interesting to know. hehe.

ReverendDanTPF

Safety/reliability be damned. I just went to a Japanese specialty mechanic today (GT Japanese Auto in Edison, NJ) and they simply machine pressed new ball joints in.

$280 parts and labor, done in 2 hours. I may have been able to save some money buying the joints myself, but I went for convenience.

Hope they hold up.

Still doesn't explain the TSB, and I'd still like to get an definitive explanation of why it recommends swapping out the entire knuckle.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear, let us know how they hold up.