JayT

Okay guys, I have 53,000 on my CL 6MT, I'm gonna change my tranny fluid today or tomorrow. I get a slight grind shifting from second to third when i get on it, usually happens after my tranny gets warm after a decent amount of driving, and it's vegas so it stays hot out here. YES I have searched and have done a bunch of reading with people's experiences with GM syncromesh and the new formulated honda MTF. My question to you guys running Syncromesh or other fluids is how long have you been running it? I'm looking into possible long term effects of switching to a completely different lubricant such as syncromesh. so how long have you safely been running fluids other than OEM MTF?

JayT

I've also read some very informative threads on this subject from TL member's and other users running it in S2k's, etc. I'm sure after I change my tranny fluid It will eliminate my problem, just sorta on the fence between new MTF from honda or Syncromesh. I plan on keepin my CL for awhile and I don't want something to compromise the longevity of my baby. If you guys think the new formula OEM MTF will solve the problem I'll go with that.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Honda's new fluid is basically the same stuff as the GM product

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a syncro going out.

rp_guy

not the friction modified version..

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I've gotten to know a GM tech & they claim the reformulated stuff is all the same just re-branded for that dealer.

jproy

I have noticed a huge difference between the syncromesh and the reformulated Honda/Acura stuff. They are not even remotely the same color. There is no way they are the same stuff. Not by a long shot. The Honda stuff is clear/light-light pink and the GM stuff is oil colored. The GM stuff has eliminated ALL my problems and I do not intend to ever go back. She shifts like hot sex now! It does sound like you have a bad syncro though. I would try the GM stuff ASAP and let us know how it goes. don’t waste your time with the Honda/ Acura reformulated crap. It did little to nothing for improvement for me. I’m in a hot climate too. I did have my trany rebuilt. Look for the thread.

JayT

yeah I read your thread, the slight grind happens ever once in awhile but only when I get on it if I been driving all day long. Hopefully after I change the fluid it will eliminate it somewhat. I knew it was the syncro though, i had bad first gear syncro on my 300zx back in the day suprisingly I got to 100k till it needed to be rebuilt and I drove the hell out of that thing but at the 100K mark I couldn't use first at all... but yeah I'm still debating whether I'll change over to GM syncromesh or new honda. How long have you been running the syncromesh (mileage)?

jproy

Dont debate! The research has been done! Just do it and you will thank me after. If your syncros hae faile it will be a lot more expensive than a failed seal which wont happen. You have nothing to lose.

JayT

right on, I'm gonna pick some up and change it on my next day off. I don't think I'm in any danger of my syncro failing anytime soon but I know its time to change my fluid. I assume your running friction modified jproy?

JayT

By the way jproy I commend you on all the DIY work you've done to your car bro. Much respect.

GreenMonster

Color is the easiest thing to change... that isn't a good indication of whether a product is the same or not... It would be analogous to saying that blue brake fluid is different than amber brake fluid just because the color is different... Same stuff, but colored for a reason.

Now the GM stuff might shift better (which is purely subjective), but to say it's has to be different based on color, and without a chemical analysis, is questionable at best.

If the syncros have gone bad, there isn't a fluid in the world that going to repair them

GreenMonster

Link to said research ?? Not trying to be a ball buster, as I know this has been debated before, but claiming "research" has been done, without providing a link to this "scientific study" isn't fair. If you're going to make a claim of "reseach", lets see it... and not just endorsements from users. I'm talking empirical evidence.

GreenMonster

Oh, and I have thought about changing my fluid... I'm over the recommended 5 year mark (but under the 90k miles), but I think I'll go with the honda reformulated stuff since my 6spd shifts fine now...

JayT

I agree and I am not looking for a miracle fluid. I don't drive the car hard on a daily as I figure my car endure's enough given the hot temperature in vegas and I rarely get that grind shifting into 3rd. I don't see my syncro failing anytime soon.

JayT

that's what I'm looking for... I found this thread to be quite informative and pursuasive to further inquire on the subject...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178800

I noticed most switched over due to "notchy" shifts but that was due to cold climates and the synthetic blend syncromesh vs. OEM fluid offered great low temp properties. Other's have switched over and elimanated some grinding issues. Two completely different blends. Given out here I don't worry about cold temps. what would worry me would be the fact that it hits 110+ degrees out here, it gets extremely hot out here and I wonder if I would have adversed effects in the long run.

jproy

This is why this forum is so good! My balls have been busted! You just can’t say some bullshit and not get called out. There are way to many other very smart people here. Keep that in mind people!

You are right; the color is not a good indicator. However, I have used both the improved Honda/Acura fluid and the GM syncromesh. If you have not used it yourself, even I would say improvement is subjective but the difference it night and day. The improved Honda/Acura stuff is only slightly better and I DO live in the hottest of climates. I was a skeptic of the GM stuff and that is why I waited until 99100 miles to put it in but the difference it quite dramatic. I agree with you that they could be colored differently and I do NOT have proof they are indeed different but if you make the switch you will immediately understand this is not the same fluid. This isn’t like it feeling a little better after a fluid change. Swapping the fluid was like putting a new and improved transmission in the car. It really is that dramatic. Every aspect of the shifting is dramatically better. It is way better than when the car was new. This is coming from a car guy with tons of stick experience. I myself have had a bad set of syncros, so I and the dealer thought, in my CLS that were replaced at 25000 miles. The syncros were still sharp though and did not look worn out. I still have them. At 85000 miles my trans was again torn apart and I had the 1234 gears and syncros replaced again since the trans had to be opened up. Once again everything was still sharp and looked just like the new syncros and gears going in but we replace them anyway. The night after leaving the dealership I was able to grind second with the clutch fully on the floor not trying to grind them and paying very careful attention to what I was doing. I’m not some jackass half wit driver, trust me. Those who know me well let me drive their Ferrari’s, Porsche’s, GT500's, etc. etc. hard because they know I know what I am doing. I am a car fanatic. I'm car CRAZY! I do know people with way too much money. I have had a three hour private tour of the Barber motorsports complex with their head fabricator mechanic. That was fun! I got to sit in and pick up, with my hands, an F1 car. By no means am I bragging I am just testifying that I do know what I am doing. I know, even though I have said that, it still doesn’t mean anything and is not hard evidence like "I’m an F1 driver" so you readers may take it how you will. After the switch there is no grinding or notchines when engaging the gears. I honestly do feel the GM stuff is a miracle fluid for the CLS 6MT trans! There, I said it. It is just that good. Even if you are not having problems, you will notice a huge improvement you didn’t know could happen. Way, way better than the possibility of subjectivity. I will be the first to openly report and disclose any problems I may have and I will find them if they occur. The GM stuff has been in there for about 700 miles and it is still amazing me on every drive.

The research and evidence I was talking about was me surfing the boards seeing others results and experiences. The only problem I found was a guy with and NSX who put it in and about 5 miles later he noticed a leaking axle seal. I don’t see the correlation. The S2K guys have all been running it without a problem not wear & tear related. I have been following the fluid since people started talking about it here and I have found no one with a problem. That is all I was saying. If there were a problem it would have surfaced by now, IN MY OPINION. If you are having problems there IS a possibility you will fix the problem with the GM stuff. I have had the opportunity to drive on three different sets of 1234 gears and syncros. All built by the Acura head tech. They all had notchiness and would grind on occasion going into gear or just be hard/sloppy to engage. The two that came out didn’t look like a worn out set of syncros. Since I put the new fluid in ALL of it is gone. It is my OPINION that the CLS trany is prone to grinding by inherent design. If you have bad driving habits or you, unknown to you, make poor shifts it is a possibility you have damaged you syncros or they have simply worn out but I would highly recommend the GM fluid. I think the worst that could happen is you end up with something leaking which is highly likely anyway with the age of these cars and increased mileage. Look at my seal failures with the OEM stuff for example.

Thank for the props on my thread.
Jim

JayT

all the info your talking about I've read up on as well, and NO I don't have bad driving habits and NO I don't make "poor" shifts. I have only put only 6K miles since I owned it, trust it's not from driver error, at least not from me but I can't speak for who previously owned it... I been driving manual cars all my life, I learned how to drive on a manual car and have always had nothing but manual cars with the exception of E420. on that note I probably will try out the syncromesh.

jproy

Give the GM fluid a try brother man. Let us know how it goes. If it wasnt abused before you got it, I doubt the syncros are shot but anything is possible.

GreenMonster

Thanks for the detail post, Jim

I live in a cold climate... I bought my CL in October, so shifting was notchy during the winter... Next winter it was fine, as I assumed things had "worn in".

I haven't had a problem since, but maybe I'll try the GM stuff to see for myself...

jproy

respected sir

jproy

If you love the driving experience, I recomend it. I wish I had known about this long ago. It is my conclusion that it is possible I probably never needed new gears and syncros. I look at it this way. I think, if anything is going to get hurt from the fluid, it would happen way way down the road/miles and the likely hood of OEM failure is just as high. This has been my experience anyway with OEM rubber parts. Nothing last for ever and will eventualy break.

JayT

will definately give it a try, I know my syncro is not shot. I had a shot 1st gear syncro ring on my 300zx and it's no where close to that ... I'll be changing my tranny fluid hopefully on my next day off... Gentleman, I thank you for the info although it didn't add much to the research i already have done ... no but really, I appreciate the input guys. syncromesh should be in my tranny by next week, along with my 6000K bulbs.

jproy

I cant wait to hear what you have to say about it. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

jproy

Too add a note... your trans has always been picky. May not be the best comparison.

jproy

LOL! I dont have a response to this.

JayT

Just changed my tranny fluid today, took me about 30min.... I didn't feel any hesitation going into 3rd with the syncromesh but I want to give it sometime and see how she shifts when I get on it and she is thoroughly warmed up. so far so good...that is all this thread can die now.

Harrisonk531616

i've had the same problem from 1st to 2nd at WOT; i used Honda MTF at the time. I drained it out threw in 10w-40 mobil 1 and one bottle of Lucus synthetic oil stabilizer. never happened again.