Why use premium gas when regular will do?
#1
Why use premium gas when regular will do?
Just an interesting article.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm
#4
Yeah.. Chopper is right.. if you put regular in your tank, your car will lose power and fuel efficiency. I also heard it is not good for your engine. Ask your mechanic or Acura dealer for advice.
#7
on a normal low compression engine, it is. i've heard of some vehicles that run even worse on super unleaded.
but our cars (cl-s) are high compression. they need higher octane to prevent detonation. as soon as the ECU detects detonation, it retards timing, in turn reducing engine power. it does this to protect the motor.
regular isn't going to hurt the car, it just wont perform to it's potential.
but our cars (cl-s) are high compression. they need higher octane to prevent detonation. as soon as the ECU detects detonation, it retards timing, in turn reducing engine power. it does this to protect the motor.
regular isn't going to hurt the car, it just wont perform to it's potential.
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#10
Originally Posted by ghost_masterCL
what about the first gens? They have almost similar motors. A tad smaller and less HP. Would they be better off with higher octane fuel as well?
From what I remember, the compression ratio on a First Gen is in the normal area. They run better with regular grade gasoline.
#11
Originally Posted by Red-CL
From what I remember, the compression ratio on a First Gen is in the normal area. They run better with regular grade gasoline.
Somebody dynoed it, car worked better with REG. Getting premo on the first generation is a waste of money.
#13
Originally Posted by mattg
on a normal low compression engine, it is. i've heard of some vehicles that run even worse on super unleaded.
but our cars (cl-s) are high compression. they need higher octane to prevent detonation. as soon as the ECU detects detonation, it retards timing, in turn reducing engine power. it does this to protect the motor.
regular isn't going to hurt the car, it just wont perform to it's potential.
but our cars (cl-s) are high compression. they need higher octane to prevent detonation. as soon as the ECU detects detonation, it retards timing, in turn reducing engine power. it does this to protect the motor.
regular isn't going to hurt the car, it just wont perform to it's potential.
The CLS/TLS will suffer more noticably than the CL/TL if you run less than recommended.
If you don't care about performance you can run less and it won't hurt the engine . . . unless it starts pinging.
You can run too much and it can cause problems as well. Too much octane can result in unburnt fuel which can fowl your plugs as well as pass through you emissions system. This will harm your O2 sensor and CAT. If you've ever noticed a car smelling like rotten eggs, it could have been caused by build up in the CAT.
This is because the higher the octane the lower the ignition point of the fuel. This means that lower octane gas will burn/ignite faster than higher octane. That's why you want to run higher octane in higher compression engines so the fuel doesn't ignite before the compression stroke is complete. A lower octane that burns easier would pre-ignite, hense pre-detonation / pinging. That's really bad.
Just some things to consider.
Ruf
#15
Originally Posted by mattg
our (cl-s) performance suffers with regular. i know this from experience.
#16
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 979
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
it depends on the car and how it's setup. The Type S is designed to run on 91+. The old 3.0's are designed to run on 87. If you put 91 in a 3.0 you lose power. run what the car is designed for.
#22
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 979
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
I filled up with two tanks of 87 octane and noticed no effect in performance. I also posted a kill about a modded RSX-S while running 87 octane.
you may not of felt it, but it was definately there
#23
Potential for false economy...
Check it out:
Regular or Premium
I've run my 2001 auto CLS on 89, and it will work for a tank (I didn't try multiple tanks).
IMO, the CLS can make more power using 93 octane with cold weather and low humidity. My tests. My area. That's as far as I go with this.
Depending on the brand and make of car, the performance can increase or decrease with an increase or decrease in octane.
Don't be surprised to find your gas mileage dropping with 89 octane, and you end up spending the same amount of $$/mile when you finally add up the loss of efficiency from a retarded timing map (the knock sensors will dial back timing and retard doesn't generally help increase gas mileage). If you happen to be at high altitude, or have some other conditions that make it work for you – enjoy.
Regular or Premium
I've run my 2001 auto CLS on 89, and it will work for a tank (I didn't try multiple tanks).
IMO, the CLS can make more power using 93 octane with cold weather and low humidity. My tests. My area. That's as far as I go with this.
Depending on the brand and make of car, the performance can increase or decrease with an increase or decrease in octane.
Don't be surprised to find your gas mileage dropping with 89 octane, and you end up spending the same amount of $$/mile when you finally add up the loss of efficiency from a retarded timing map (the knock sensors will dial back timing and retard doesn't generally help increase gas mileage). If you happen to be at high altitude, or have some other conditions that make it work for you – enjoy.
#25
No, altitude == lower octane in general.
Originally Posted by ghost_masterCL
i happen to be in a very high altitude area, and heard that higher octane helps i higher altitude areas. I live in denver, colorado which is a mile above sea level.
If you are running your car a mile above sea level, try using some lower octane – see how it performs.
link: http://www.abqjournal.com/traffic/17...-08-04.htm?rrc
I used to run regular in my Bimmer at 4500+ feet and above (Reno & Lake Tahoe), and it would normally ping like crazy at sea level if it didn’t get at least 93 premium.
#27
Great link to more than you'll ever want to know about octane.
Of course one is from a government source so I'm not sure if I trust them.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline6.html
http://www.omegamotors.com/enjoy/gas...soline_06.html
Ruf
Of course one is from a government source so I'm not sure if I trust them.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline6.html
http://www.omegamotors.com/enjoy/gas...soline_06.html
Ruf
#28
this is probably a retarded question, but do you guys have different "premium" octane levels in you area? unless I got hit with a stupid stick in my sleep last night, most cities in the south (Birmingham & Atlanta for sure) have 93 octane at the pumps, but I've seen a few of you mention 91 octane as premium.
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
#29
Originally Posted by RUF87
Notes:
This is because the higher the octane the lower the ignition point of the fuel. This means that lower octane gas will burn/ignite faster than higher octane. That's why you want to run higher octane in higher compression engines so the fuel doesn't ignite before the compression stroke is complete. A lower octane that burns easier would pre-ignite, hense pre-detonation / pinging. That's really bad.
Ruf
This is because the higher the octane the lower the ignition point of the fuel. This means that lower octane gas will burn/ignite faster than higher octane. That's why you want to run higher octane in higher compression engines so the fuel doesn't ignite before the compression stroke is complete. A lower octane that burns easier would pre-ignite, hense pre-detonation / pinging. That's really bad.
Ruf
Octane is a fuel stabilizer.
When something is compressed, it heats up. Remember the bicycle pump when you were a kid...
This is what happens in the second (compression) stroke of a 4-stroke cycle. A high compression engine does more compressing...
So it heats up the air/fuel mix more than a low compression engine will.
If low octane fuel is used in a high compression engine it may destabilize on compression and detonate before the spark fires... this is detonation, and as the rising piston tries to further compress the now burning and expanding fuel/air mix, it meets with resistance, heard as knock. The extreme example of this is when a gas engine 'diesels' -- keeps running after the ignition is cut...
Remember diesels do this by design, they run huge compression and ignite the mix only by compression -- no plugs.
So higher octane fuel is more stable in a high compression engine than lower octane.
#30
Originally Posted by momentum3.2
this is probably a retarded question, but do you guys have different "premium" octane levels in you area? unless I got hit with a stupid stick in my sleep last night, most cities in the south (Birmingham & Atlanta for sure) have 93 octane at the pumps, but I've seen a few of you mention 91 octane as premium.
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
Ruf
#31
Originally Posted by RUF87
It does vary by regions. Some places only have 90 as their top grade . . . not sure of the exact details, but much of it has to do with elevation and such. I remember in Colorado they only had 90 octane.
Ruf
Ruf
From an earlier posting in this thread:
link: http://www.abqjournal.com/traffic/1...5-08-04.htm?rrc
That’s just one reason -- and it does have something to do with altitude.
#33
Originally Posted by momentum3.2
this is probably a retarded question, but do you guys have different "premium" octane levels in you area? unless I got hit with a stupid stick in my sleep last night, most cities in the south (Birmingham & Atlanta for sure) have 93 octane at the pumps, but I've seen a few of you mention 91 octane as premium.
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
does it vary? surely it's not market-specific...our grades are 87, 89, 93. Just curious!
You see a lot of trucks and not an AMG or Turbo every other block -- or do you?
See Sports Compact Car:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ed...201scc_techno/
...
Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline.
The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with crap-something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.
In the Midwest, where an extensive customer base of good old boys in pickup trucks consume vast quantities of 87 octane, demand for premium fuel is low enough to make genuine high-octane premium.
In California, however, Lexus-driving executives suck down premium fuel like it's Evian, so 92 was the rule.
See my post and the one from Ruf (RE: high octane not needed at higher altitudes).
And, it has been said, on a few occasions, that CA only gets 91-octane due to the huge number of premium-hungry autos running in the state. I've now read this a number of times, and perhaps it's a big fib by the oil companies. However, there are a TON of cars in CA that NEED high octane.
LINK re: California & Nevada octane, etc:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../17335668.html
California refineries to ship lower octane gasoline
Nevada motorists don't have much choice
By MICHAEL SQUIRES
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Premium grade gasoline will lose a bit of its luster later this week.
Beginning Thursday, the California refineries that supply more than 90 percent of the fuel consumed in Nevada will cut the octane level of the premium and midgrade gasoline they manufacture. Premium grade gasoline sold in Nevada will drop to 91 octane from 92, while mid-grade will drop to 88.5 from 89. The lowest grade gasoline will continue to be 87 octane.
Octane is a measure of gasoline's ability to resist the knocking, rattling or pinging caused by the premature combustion of the mixture of fuel and air in an engine's cylinders.
"The individual refiners determined they wanted to send 91 octane instead of 92 ... and subsequently the pipeline changed its specifications for what it was going to ship," said Jason Geddes, senior petroleum chemist for the Nevada Department of Agriculture. "We don't have much of a choice."
Officials gave several reasons for the change.
One is California's looming ban on the gasoline additive MTBE, methyl tertiary butyl ether.
The octane enhancing chemical has been added to gasoline for years to reduce tailpipe emissions. But when it was discovered the suspected carcinogen was leaking from underground gasoline storage systems and finding its way into drinking water supplies, California officials moved to ban it.
Nevada has avoided the MTBE controversy by using ethanol to cut smog during winter months. California plans to begin using ethanol when it bans MTBE in 2003.
With that ban a little over a year away, some refiners were concerned that continuing to produce 92 octane fuel using ethanol instead of MTBE would be more expensive. Some believed it could reduce production by as much as 12 percent and possibly lead to shortages.
"The removal of MTBE is going to decrease our volumes," Keith said. "We're hoping to recoup some of that by going to 91 octane."
Another reason for the switch is the refiners' use of a common pipeline to ship fuel to Nevada, making a uniform octane standard a necessity. Kinder Morgan Energy Partners, which operates the pipeline that transports fuel to Southern Nevada from California, polled refineries and a majority favored adopting a lower standard octane in the premium and midgrade gasoline.
"It came down to we all go or none of us go," said Carolin Keith, spokeswoman for ExxonMobile.
California gas stations began selling the lower octane fuel in August. The switch triggered complaints from some motorists, who say the lower octane decreases their engine's power and mileage.
Although most of the gasoline sold in Nevada is the lowest grade, which will remain unchanged, opinions are mixed about whether Nevadans that pay for the higher grades of gasoline will notice a difference after they drive on their first tank of the lower octane gasoline.
"I'm told we're not going to see any effect in the performance characteristics or gas mileage," said Peter Krueger, executive director of Western Petroleum Marketers Association, a trade association for gas station operators.
Car dealers and mechanics agree that's probably true for most motorists. The fuel injectors on most vehicles are programmed to compensate for lower octane gasoline.
"The less sophisticated the engine, the less they'll notice," said Greg Young, owner of Silver State Motorcar Corp., a shop which provides service and repair for imports.
But owners of some European imports, such as Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche, and vehicles with carburetors and high-performance engines, might see the performance of their vehicles suffer.
"Cars that are 10 and 15 years old and were designed for what used to be premium are already suffering with the gas out there today," Young said. "For them this is a very bad thing."
Al Alley, assistant service manager at Desert Audi, said the lower octane gasoline may cause poorer performance and mileage, especially during summer months, but it won't damage their engines.
"They recommend 92 octane," he said. "Require is one thing, recommend is another.
"I bet 97 percent won't even notice. The few that notice are the people that are…
#34
thanks EricL - great info. B'ham is pretty typical of a mid-major city. Loads of new benz (a few amg's) and bmw's, audi's, etc. but the majority of the vehicles are SUV's. As anyone that lives in Atlanta though, if you take I20 between the two cities, it's nothing but 18wheelers. It's always referred to as "highway of death" or "the Reaper's Derby"...
Thanks for the info though!
Thanks for the info though!
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