WHEN TO SHIFT? Here is the answers...
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
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From: Washington DC (NOVA)
WHEN TO SHIFT? Here is the answers...
Looking to get maximum effect out of your car when accelerating? Try optimizing the RPM's you shift your car at. If you're shifting at redline, you're probably not getting the best acceleration out of your car - in fact, the optimum shift RPM will probably be different for each gear. You can calculate the optimum shift points, but it takes two pieces of information : Gear ratios of all your gears, and a chart of your torque curve.
I do not want to look for dynos from other people so I will make up an engine and shift points and then someone can plug in the numbers and find out the optimum shifts for the CLS. I will just show you how to do it here:
The trick here is to keep your engine in the meaty part of the torque curve, as your acceleration curve will match your torque curve - meaning if your torque peak is at 3000rpm, that's the RPM your car accelerates the hardest. How do you keep the engine in the best part of the curve?
!!! Shift when you will be at an RPM where the car will make more torque AFTER you shift than in your current gear !!!
This may sound confusing, but I will give some examples to help demonstrate this. Gear ratio is important because you need to know what your RPM's will drop to once you shift. EXAMPLE : If you're at 6500rpm in first, you need the gear ratio to know what RPM that will translates to once you shift to 2nd.
Below is a torque curve for a fictitious engine:
Gear Ratios
RPM Torque 3:1 2:1 1.3:1
3600 100 300 200 130
4000 110 330 220 143
4400 120 360 240 156
4800 125 375 250 163
5200 125 375 250 163
5600 120 360 240 156
6000 110 330 220 143
6400 95 285 190 124
6800 70 210 140 91
Now with your gear ratio in hand, figure out how many RPM's will drop going from 1st to 2nd.
n this case, it'll drop by 1/3 (2:1 divided by 3:1). So shifting from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm, it will drop to 4000rpm.
This means you're going from 330ft/lbs (see above chart - 6000rpm in 1st) to 220ft/lbs
(6000rpm * .6666) = 4000rpm in 2nd).
Not what you want is these numbers to be the same.
How about 6400? 285 vs 240 - much better,
but let's try 6800 : 210 vs about 250. Oops, too far. In this case, optimum shift point is between 6400 and 6800rpm for the 1-2 shift.
It works the same for each consecutive gear, as the shift RPM may be different for each gear.
Well what do you know! You bracket the HP peak. HP after the shift is the same as HP before the shift. Now we know shifting at the torque peak isn't the answer, and neither is shifting at the HP peak.
OK for the math gurus (others will have a headacke here...do not read the following if you dont like the way math people like to think and explain things...):
The math required : next higher gear ratio / current gear ratio (i,e. second gear divided
by first) = X
X * shiftrpm = nextrpm, where shiftrpm is the point your shifting AT, and nextrpm will be the
RPM of the next gear at the same speed.
firstgeartorque = torque at shiftrpm times current gear ratio (example, at 6400rpm we have
95ft/lbs, multiply this by our gear ratio in 1st (3:1, or just 3) and you get about 245ft/lbs.
secondgeartorque = torque at nextrpm times next gear ratio (in out example, we have 120ft/lbs
@ 4400rpm, times 2:1 (second gear ratio), and you get 240ft/lbs.
Change shiftrpm until firstgeartorque is equal (or close to) secondgeartorque
AND THAT IS HOW YOU FIGURE OUT HOW YOU SHIFT
WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO THE TRACK!
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
I do not want to look for dynos from other people so I will make up an engine and shift points and then someone can plug in the numbers and find out the optimum shifts for the CLS. I will just show you how to do it here:
The trick here is to keep your engine in the meaty part of the torque curve, as your acceleration curve will match your torque curve - meaning if your torque peak is at 3000rpm, that's the RPM your car accelerates the hardest. How do you keep the engine in the best part of the curve?
!!! Shift when you will be at an RPM where the car will make more torque AFTER you shift than in your current gear !!!
This may sound confusing, but I will give some examples to help demonstrate this. Gear ratio is important because you need to know what your RPM's will drop to once you shift. EXAMPLE : If you're at 6500rpm in first, you need the gear ratio to know what RPM that will translates to once you shift to 2nd.
Below is a torque curve for a fictitious engine:
Gear Ratios
RPM Torque 3:1 2:1 1.3:1
3600 100 300 200 130
4000 110 330 220 143
4400 120 360 240 156
4800 125 375 250 163
5200 125 375 250 163
5600 120 360 240 156
6000 110 330 220 143
6400 95 285 190 124
6800 70 210 140 91
Now with your gear ratio in hand, figure out how many RPM's will drop going from 1st to 2nd.
n this case, it'll drop by 1/3 (2:1 divided by 3:1). So shifting from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm, it will drop to 4000rpm.
This means you're going from 330ft/lbs (see above chart - 6000rpm in 1st) to 220ft/lbs
(6000rpm * .6666) = 4000rpm in 2nd).
Not what you want is these numbers to be the same.
How about 6400? 285 vs 240 - much better,
but let's try 6800 : 210 vs about 250. Oops, too far. In this case, optimum shift point is between 6400 and 6800rpm for the 1-2 shift.
It works the same for each consecutive gear, as the shift RPM may be different for each gear.
Well what do you know! You bracket the HP peak. HP after the shift is the same as HP before the shift. Now we know shifting at the torque peak isn't the answer, and neither is shifting at the HP peak.
OK for the math gurus (others will have a headacke here...do not read the following if you dont like the way math people like to think and explain things...):
The math required : next higher gear ratio / current gear ratio (i,e. second gear divided
by first) = X
X * shiftrpm = nextrpm, where shiftrpm is the point your shifting AT, and nextrpm will be the
RPM of the next gear at the same speed.
firstgeartorque = torque at shiftrpm times current gear ratio (example, at 6400rpm we have
95ft/lbs, multiply this by our gear ratio in 1st (3:1, or just 3) and you get about 245ft/lbs.
secondgeartorque = torque at nextrpm times next gear ratio (in out example, we have 120ft/lbs
@ 4400rpm, times 2:1 (second gear ratio), and you get 240ft/lbs.
Change shiftrpm until firstgeartorque is equal (or close to) secondgeartorque
AND THAT IS HOW YOU FIGURE OUT HOW YOU SHIFT
WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO THE TRACK!
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX, USA
I here what you are saying and I know what exactly what you mean, however, you want to stay in the power band where you have maximum torque and horsepower, since horsepower is a measure of how fast you can get to your available torque.
This means that you want to stay in the Vtec region all the time. I've been racing before and noticed that redline on these hondas are probably the best, because the faster you get through your gears the faster your speed will be.
This means that you want to stay in the Vtec region all the time. I've been racing before and noticed that redline on these hondas are probably the best, because the faster you get through your gears the faster your speed will be.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,388
Likes: 1
From: Ninth Gate & So Cal
There is a calculator that I gave you a link to....
Calculating Optimum Shift Points
Just put in the gear ratios from the Acura site and the torque figures from Mike's dyno. He has the torque curves for:
1. A stock Acura CL-S
2. An Acura CL-S with headers.
3. An Acura CL-S with headers and CAI.
In general, the shift points work out to about 7000+ rpm (especially if car has headers and CAI with extended torque curve)
------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI
Calculating Optimum Shift Points
Just put in the gear ratios from the Acura site and the torque figures from Mike's dyno. He has the torque curves for:
1. A stock Acura CL-S
2. An Acura CL-S with headers.
3. An Acura CL-S with headers and CAI.
In general, the shift points work out to about 7000+ rpm (especially if car has headers and CAI with extended torque curve)
------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI
- Mud guards
- Wheel locks
- Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
- Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
- Comptech headers & sways
- Silver AEM CAI
- 9 coats of Zaino magic
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
Or you could just go down to your local track and experiment for yourself.
It's a lot more fun than reading posts here.
Way to go Gavvy....... written like a true bookboy.
By the way, the expert drivers in mags like C&D and Motor Trend will tell you that they shift MOST manual trans cars at their redline to get the best 1/4 mile results. This is fact.
Do I agree with them? No, not in all cases. Of course it depends on the car......
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
It's a lot more fun than reading posts here.
Way to go Gavvy....... written like a true bookboy.
By the way, the expert drivers in mags like C&D and Motor Trend will tell you that they shift MOST manual trans cars at their redline to get the best 1/4 mile results. This is fact.
Do I agree with them? No, not in all cases. Of course it depends on the car......
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Trending Topics
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CLS16:
Anybody want to figure all that shit out and let us know when the optimun shifts for the CLS are? (I'm not one of those math gurus')
</font>
Anybody want to figure all that shit out and let us know when the optimun shifts for the CLS are? (I'm not one of those math gurus')
</font>
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
hey gabe, how well is oracle doing?
i have oracle stock, but i'm hoping most of the employees don't hang out on car forums all day!
j/k</font>
hey gabe, how well is oracle doing?
i have oracle stock, but i'm hoping most of the employees don't hang out on car forums all day!
j/k</font>
The company is doing great though.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RandyMax:
I have one word for you: CVT (actually it's three no?)!!
Good post!
</font>
I have one word for you: CVT (actually it's three no?)!!
Good post!
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by EricL:
There is a calculator that I gave you a link to....
Calculating Optimum Shift Points
Just put in the gear ratios from the Acura site and the torque figures from Mike's dyno. He has the torque curves for:
1. A stock Acura CL-S
2. An Acura CL-S with headers.
3. An Acura CL-S with headers and CAI.
In general, the shift points work out to about 7000+ rpm (especially if car has headers and CAI with extended torque curve)
</font>
There is a calculator that I gave you a link to....
Calculating Optimum Shift Points
Just put in the gear ratios from the Acura site and the torque figures from Mike's dyno. He has the torque curves for:
1. A stock Acura CL-S
2. An Acura CL-S with headers.
3. An Acura CL-S with headers and CAI.
In general, the shift points work out to about 7000+ rpm (especially if car has headers and CAI with extended torque curve)
</font>
It is more fun that way.
Then again I could care less about why all that stuff is happenning and just go to the track and smoke a pipe too while I am at it. This last one does not go towards you though...they know who they are... :-)
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Or you could just go down to your local track and experiment for yourself.
It's a lot more fun than reading posts here.
Way to go Gavvy....... written like a true bookboy.
By the way, the expert drivers in mags like C&D and Motor Trend will tell you that they shift MOST manual trans cars at their redline to get the best 1/4 mile results. This is fact.
Do I agree with them? No, not in all cases. Of course it depends on the car......
</font>
Or you could just go down to your local track and experiment for yourself.
It's a lot more fun than reading posts here.
Way to go Gavvy....... written like a true bookboy.
By the way, the expert drivers in mags like C&D and Motor Trend will tell you that they shift MOST manual trans cars at their redline to get the best 1/4 mile results. This is fact.
Do I agree with them? No, not in all cases. Of course it depends on the car......
</font>
No matter what you or mags are saying about redlines, the optimum shift points are calculated as per above. Book boys found out that before track boys.
Physics is here with us WAY before tracks and vehicles of any kind. Engineering has based ALL their knowledge on physics and other sciences. Then some hicks came out and said hey let us go to the track and see how fast my Camaro is without caring to learn what a cam is. Nothing wrong with that.
But it is not fair for those HeeeeHas now to come out and tell the old fathers (not me one) what goes gaster and how and why? Forget it. You are way behind on this.
By the way, Einstain's theories are not proven anywhere. E-MC^2 is not proven at no track (or lab). We still accept him as the great one though. Now I will have Einstain as my god and you have your ENglishtown as yours. No prob at all.
To take what some super German engineers have created to the track and push your feet on the pedals and pull your hands on the stick and call yourself THE GOD OF ENGINEERING and everyone else mag racers is the sissy act. Actually it is laziness...cos you are too lazy to go to school and/or read books and learn from the ones that REALLY know. Lazy people say "put 2 cars together at the track and see which one is faster". Scientists and curious people are saying "let us figure out what makes a car go faster than another, express it in formulas which will help us find solutions to improve those cars using brain power, etc."
To take an M3 to the racetrack and call yourself an expert and everyone else a race mag boy is not right. You know what is right? To learn the from the above, apply it in reality by building or rebuilding something and then see that knowledge make the difference at the track. THAT is something. Now you are an expert. You learned something in books, you worked on your car or even made it from scratch and then you saw it perform at the track (straight line or not).
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-27-2001).]
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
I'm sure gavriil will be more than happy to fire up the old calculator and let you know exactly where to shift your car. LOL.
</font>
I'm sure gavriil will be more than happy to fire up the old calculator and let you know exactly where to shift your car. LOL.
</font>
Me? What am I gonna do with them? What makes me content is to show you how to figure out the optimum points. Then I stay home and you pick up by going at the track. Do not forget to shift fast now. Concentrate and believe that you can beat the enemy. Medetation helps too before the run. Make sure you give it 100%...
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,388
Likes: 1
From: Ninth Gate & So Cal
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CLS16:
I just want the optimun shift points for a non-modded CLS.
</font>
I just want the optimun shift points for a non-modded CLS.
</font>
Just don't kill it running into the limiter.
One of the guys with just a CAI used the shifts at about 7000 rpm and got a mid 14 second run (Xepher).
BTW -- there are other factors going on, why not keep track of what speeds your shifting at, and keep a record when you go to the track.
------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI
- Mud guards
- Wheel locks
- Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
- Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
- Comptech headers & sways
- Silver AEM CAI
- 9 coats of Zaino magic
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,969
Likes: 0
From: NY
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
No matter what you or mags are saying about redlines, the optimum shift points are calculated as per above. Book boys found out that before track boys.
Physics is here with us WAY before tracks and vehicles of any kind. Engineering has based ALL their knowledge on physics and other sciences. Then some hicks came out and said hey let us go to the track and see how fast my Camaro is without caring to learn what a cam is. Nothing wrong with that.
But it is not fair for those HeeeeHas now to come out and tell the old fathers (not me one) what goes gaster and how and why? Forget it. You are way behind on this.
By the way, Einstain's theories are not proven anywhere. E-MC^2 is not proven at no track (or lab). We still accept him as the great one though. Now I will have Einstain as my god and you have your ENglishtown as yours. No prob at all.
To take what some super German engineers have created to the track and push your feet on the pedals and pull your hands on the stick and call yourself THE GOD OF ENGINEERING and everyone else mag racers is the sissy act. Actually it is laziness...cos you are too lazy to go to school and/or read books and learn from the ones that REALLY know. Lazy people say "put 2 cars together at the track and see which one is faster". Scientists and curious people are saying "let us figure out what makes a car go faster than another, express it in formulas which will help us find solutions to improve those cars using brain power, etc."
To take an M3 to the racetrack and call yourself an expert and everyone else a race mag boy is not right. You know what is right? To learn the from the above, apply it in reality by building or rebuilding something and then see that knowledge make the difference at the track. THAT is something. Now you are an expert. You learned something in books, you worked on your car or even made it from scratch and then you saw it perform at the track (straight line or not).
</font>
No matter what you or mags are saying about redlines, the optimum shift points are calculated as per above. Book boys found out that before track boys.
Physics is here with us WAY before tracks and vehicles of any kind. Engineering has based ALL their knowledge on physics and other sciences. Then some hicks came out and said hey let us go to the track and see how fast my Camaro is without caring to learn what a cam is. Nothing wrong with that.
But it is not fair for those HeeeeHas now to come out and tell the old fathers (not me one) what goes gaster and how and why? Forget it. You are way behind on this.
By the way, Einstain's theories are not proven anywhere. E-MC^2 is not proven at no track (or lab). We still accept him as the great one though. Now I will have Einstain as my god and you have your ENglishtown as yours. No prob at all.
To take what some super German engineers have created to the track and push your feet on the pedals and pull your hands on the stick and call yourself THE GOD OF ENGINEERING and everyone else mag racers is the sissy act. Actually it is laziness...cos you are too lazy to go to school and/or read books and learn from the ones that REALLY know. Lazy people say "put 2 cars together at the track and see which one is faster". Scientists and curious people are saying "let us figure out what makes a car go faster than another, express it in formulas which will help us find solutions to improve those cars using brain power, etc."
To take an M3 to the racetrack and call yourself an expert and everyone else a race mag boy is not right. You know what is right? To learn the from the above, apply it in reality by building or rebuilding something and then see that knowledge make the difference at the track. THAT is something. Now you are an expert. You learned something in books, you worked on your car or even made it from scratch and then you saw it perform at the track (straight line or not).
</font>
"The thing feared most by other countries is not our military size but the way in which we apply it." I beleive MacArthur.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,400
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim Hills, CA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
And again Audi will be the pioneer.
</font>
And again Audi will be the pioneer.
</font>
Check the "Cedric" out here:
http://www.nissan.co.jp/CEDRIC/Y34/9...hanism_fr.html
------------------
01' CL-S, Silver/Ebony
The Acura Granddaddy
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Federal Way, WA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RandyMax:
Don't forget about Nissan. It's already selling a 280HP luxury sedan with CVT in Japan.
Check the "Cedric" out here:
http://www.nissan.co.jp/CEDRIC/Y34/9...hanism_fr.html
</font>
Don't forget about Nissan. It's already selling a 280HP luxury sedan with CVT in Japan.
Check the "Cedric" out here:
http://www.nissan.co.jp/CEDRIC/Y34/9...hanism_fr.html
</font>
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,400
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim Hills, CA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LegendC:
Don't forget Honda too. They already have one in the Civic and are going to put one in the new Civic and Insight as well. Now if only they can make it take more HP.</font>
Don't forget Honda too. They already have one in the Civic and are going to put one in the new Civic and Insight as well. Now if only they can make it take more HP.
</font>
The reason why Honda don't offer CVT in cars with bigger engines is because Honda's CVT cannot handle too much power (torque).
Audi's putting a CVT in the A6, which has over 200 hp. The aforementioned Nissan Cedric has 280!
I think I've mentioned it somewhere before, but the A6 with CVT actually has a faster 0-60 time than that of a manual A6!
------------------
01' CL-S, Silver/Ebony
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RandyMax:
Don't forget about Nissan. It's already selling a 280HP luxury sedan with CVT in Japan.
Check the "Cedric" out here:
http://www.nissan.co.jp/CEDRIC/Y34/9...hanism_fr.html
</font>
Don't forget about Nissan. It's already selling a 280HP luxury sedan with CVT in Japan.
Check the "Cedric" out here:
http://www.nissan.co.jp/CEDRIC/Y34/9...hanism_fr.html
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
Gavriil,
You're a misguided soul, my friend. Why do you insist on telling me what I do and do not know?
Why do you insist on calling me a redneck or hick? (When was the last time you saw a redneck driving an M3? Probably never. They usually drive rusty pick-ups, right? LOL)
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth all the time?
Why do you insist that I only have knowledge based on going to the track?
Do you really know anything about me? I don't think so.
Did you know that I currently work as an automotive engineer? Do I have to prove it to make you believe it? Did you know that I worked as a Master Automotive Technician in the past? Do I have to prove that too? Did you know that I'm licensced/certified by the NYS Dept. of Motor Vehicles? Do I have to prove it?
See, the point is this-- Book knowledge is a good thing, but actually getting out in the field and DOING THINGS is truly where its at. This is the exact reason that I worked on cars before I started engineering them. I am greatly respected by my co-workers because of this.
Let's talk about you for a moment, shall we?
You sell auto parts, no?
So I'm spending my time arguing with an auto parts guy......LOL.
I can't believe you actually take the time to defend the fact that you're a magazine racer. That is the most pathetic thing!!
You're exactly like the guy who starts a new job after getting his Masters and thinks he can step right in and show everybody the real deal........ Only to find out that the guy with a high school education and 20 years experience on the job has to show you the real deal.
If ignorance were Cheerios, you'd be General Mills.
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
You're a misguided soul, my friend. Why do you insist on telling me what I do and do not know?
Why do you insist on calling me a redneck or hick? (When was the last time you saw a redneck driving an M3? Probably never. They usually drive rusty pick-ups, right? LOL)
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth all the time?
Why do you insist that I only have knowledge based on going to the track?
Do you really know anything about me? I don't think so.
Did you know that I currently work as an automotive engineer? Do I have to prove it to make you believe it? Did you know that I worked as a Master Automotive Technician in the past? Do I have to prove that too? Did you know that I'm licensced/certified by the NYS Dept. of Motor Vehicles? Do I have to prove it?
See, the point is this-- Book knowledge is a good thing, but actually getting out in the field and DOING THINGS is truly where its at. This is the exact reason that I worked on cars before I started engineering them. I am greatly respected by my co-workers because of this.
Let's talk about you for a moment, shall we?
You sell auto parts, no?
So I'm spending my time arguing with an auto parts guy......LOL.
I can't believe you actually take the time to defend the fact that you're a magazine racer. That is the most pathetic thing!!
You're exactly like the guy who starts a new job after getting his Masters and thinks he can step right in and show everybody the real deal........ Only to find out that the guy with a high school education and 20 years experience on the job has to show you the real deal.
If ignorance were Cheerios, you'd be General Mills.
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Gavriil,
You're a misguided soul, my friend. Why do you insist on telling me what I do and do not know?
Why do you insist on calling me a redneck or hick? (When was the last time you saw a redneck driving an M3? Probably never. They usually drive rusty pick-ups, right? LOL)
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth all the time?
Why do you insist that I only have knowledge based on going to the track?
Do you really know anything about me? I don't think so.
Did you know that I currently work as an automotive engineer? Do I have to prove it to make you believe it? Did you know that I worked as a Master Automotive Technician in the past? Do I have to prove that too? Did you know that I'm licensced/certified by the NYS Dept. of Motor Vehicles? Do I have to prove it?
See, the point is this-- Book knowledge is a good thing, but actually getting out in the field and DOING THINGS is truly where its at. This is the exact reason that I worked on cars before I started engineering them. I am greatly respected by my co-workers because of this.
Let's talk about you for a moment, shall we?
You sell auto parts, no?
So I'm spending my time arguing with an auto parts guy......LOL.
I can't believe you actually take the time to defend the fact that you're a magazine racer. That is the most pathetic thing!!
You're exactly like the guy who starts a new job after getting his Masters and thinks he can step right in and show everybody the real deal........ Only to find out that the guy with a high school education and 20 years experience on the job has to show you the real deal.
If ignorance were Cheerios, you'd be General Mills.
</font>
Gavriil,
You're a misguided soul, my friend. Why do you insist on telling me what I do and do not know?
Why do you insist on calling me a redneck or hick? (When was the last time you saw a redneck driving an M3? Probably never. They usually drive rusty pick-ups, right? LOL)
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth all the time?
Why do you insist that I only have knowledge based on going to the track?
Do you really know anything about me? I don't think so.
Did you know that I currently work as an automotive engineer? Do I have to prove it to make you believe it? Did you know that I worked as a Master Automotive Technician in the past? Do I have to prove that too? Did you know that I'm licensced/certified by the NYS Dept. of Motor Vehicles? Do I have to prove it?
See, the point is this-- Book knowledge is a good thing, but actually getting out in the field and DOING THINGS is truly where its at. This is the exact reason that I worked on cars before I started engineering them. I am greatly respected by my co-workers because of this.
Let's talk about you for a moment, shall we?
You sell auto parts, no?
So I'm spending my time arguing with an auto parts guy......LOL.
I can't believe you actually take the time to defend the fact that you're a magazine racer. That is the most pathetic thing!!
You're exactly like the guy who starts a new job after getting his Masters and thinks he can step right in and show everybody the real deal........ Only to find out that the guy with a high school education and 20 years experience on the job has to show you the real deal.
If ignorance were Cheerios, you'd be General Mills.
</font>
If you are an engineer and a Master Automotive Technician we better start praying our cars dont brake and have to bring them to you to fix them. If you are saying that Torque is what matters in drag racing even if I were running a Midas I would hire you to bring coffee to the guys that replace brake pads.
About the education at the bottom of your sophisticated post... Should I assume that you have a high school degree and 20 years experience in the field? If that is true we are lucky you can write a sentence here. If though you went to school and had a degree and then a graduate degree and then had 10 years real life experience like I do you would have seen the value of education. And the funny thing is that the more experience I get out in the field the more I recognize how much education matters.
People like you need to be forbiden from driving cars like an M3. I respect that car more than you now. I thought you knew basic principles.
By the way, dont forget to go to the track today and prove to yourself that you are driving an F60 by runnin 13.9s. Instead I will stay at home and read how Mercedes is coming out with a 100% electric braking system that will change drivers' lives once again. I wonder who learned more from their experiences... The guys here might be able to tell us ah?
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Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-28-2001).]
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-28-2001).]
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
gavriil,
Know what's funny about you? For some reason, you can never back up that mouth of yours. Cutting and pasting another guys words and trying to pass them off as your own just doesn't cut it with me. You may be able to fool some of the people here, but not me pal.
By the way, I only fix my own cars at this point in my life- and then only when I have the time. There's no chance that I'd ever be working on a car of yours.
To assume that I only have a high school education and 20 years experience would be something I would expect from you at this point. Foolish, as usual to assume anything. Sorry to tell ya- I'm not even old enough to have 20 years experience doing ANYTHING. Maybe you can help me with my math, boy genius, but I'd have to be at least 42 years old to have 20 years experience in any career field.
Shall we develop a formula to figure that out? Nah, lets just say 18 years old leaving high school plus 4 years college plus 20 years on the job- bingo! 42 years old.
Why do you keep insisting that I drive an F60? Did I ever say that? Nope. Not once. Besides, if I did drive an F60, I can guarantee that it would run faster than 13.9 in the 1/4. Why don't you bust out your little calculator and figure out what an F60 would really run?
Did your parents keep you locked up inside the house all the time when you were younger? Did you have any friends in your youth? I have such a funny mental picture of you:
A skinny little balding twerp with glasses of course, (from sitting in front of that moniter and those books all the time) and not even a hint of a tan (because you never get out into the sun, even for a few minutes). The phone never rings in your place, except when telemarketers call you. You live through other people's experiences that you READ about......
Absolutely pathetic.
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Know what's funny about you? For some reason, you can never back up that mouth of yours. Cutting and pasting another guys words and trying to pass them off as your own just doesn't cut it with me. You may be able to fool some of the people here, but not me pal.
By the way, I only fix my own cars at this point in my life- and then only when I have the time. There's no chance that I'd ever be working on a car of yours.
To assume that I only have a high school education and 20 years experience would be something I would expect from you at this point. Foolish, as usual to assume anything. Sorry to tell ya- I'm not even old enough to have 20 years experience doing ANYTHING. Maybe you can help me with my math, boy genius, but I'd have to be at least 42 years old to have 20 years experience in any career field.
Shall we develop a formula to figure that out? Nah, lets just say 18 years old leaving high school plus 4 years college plus 20 years on the job- bingo! 42 years old.
Why do you keep insisting that I drive an F60? Did I ever say that? Nope. Not once. Besides, if I did drive an F60, I can guarantee that it would run faster than 13.9 in the 1/4. Why don't you bust out your little calculator and figure out what an F60 would really run?
Did your parents keep you locked up inside the house all the time when you were younger? Did you have any friends in your youth? I have such a funny mental picture of you:
A skinny little balding twerp with glasses of course, (from sitting in front of that moniter and those books all the time) and not even a hint of a tan (because you never get out into the sun, even for a few minutes). The phone never rings in your place, except when telemarketers call you. You live through other people's experiences that you READ about......
Absolutely pathetic.
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
gavriil,
Know what's funny about you? For some reason, you can never back up that mouth of yours.
Why do you keep insisting that I drive an F60? Did I ever say that? Nope. Not once. Besides, if I did drive an F60, I can guarantee that it would run faster than 13.9 in the 1/4. Why don't you bust out your little calculator and figure out what an F60 would really run?
</font>
gavriil,
Know what's funny about you? For some reason, you can never back up that mouth of yours.
Why do you keep insisting that I drive an F60? Did I ever say that? Nope. Not once. Besides, if I did drive an F60, I can guarantee that it would run faster than 13.9 in the 1/4. Why don't you bust out your little calculator and figure out what an F60 would really run?
</font>
By the way, do you dream about racing your M3 at night? Beating CLSs? Love the feeling ah?
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
Haha! I love it. The M3 castle is ashes at this point. Great job Tom, thanks for making my job here easy.
By the way, do you dream about racing your M3 at night? Beating CLSs? Love the feeling ah?
</font>
Haha! I love it. The M3 castle is ashes at this point. Great job Tom, thanks for making my job here easy.
By the way, do you dream about racing your M3 at night? Beating CLSs? Love the feeling ah?
</font>
Like I said, you can never back up that mouth of yours.
------------------
dead CL-S and M3
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,400
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim Hills, CA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
Sorry man, I cant read Japanese but it sounds interesting. I did not know that a 280HP engine could be fitted with a CVT. Right now the biggest problem with CVT is the belt which cannot withstand a lot of toruqe but I guess the problem is not starting to be getting solved. CVT is the future big time. All cars will end up with CVT, both autos and manuals today will go that way. Unless they find somethig better before CVT gets more popularity which I doubt.
</font>
Sorry man, I cant read Japanese but it sounds interesting. I did not know that a 280HP engine could be fitted with a CVT. Right now the biggest problem with CVT is the belt which cannot withstand a lot of toruqe but I guess the problem is not starting to be getting solved. CVT is the future big time. All cars will end up with CVT, both autos and manuals today will go that way. Unless they find somethig better before CVT gets more popularity which I doubt.
</font>
Check this out. I know it's in Japanese (I can't read it either...) but I think you'll get the ideal looking at the picuture. I first came across this design in a C&D article some time back...
http://www.nissan.co.jp/ELEMENTS/MEC...0_extroid.html
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01' CL-S, Silver/Ebony
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