Wheel hop cure?
08-11-2003, 05:11 PM
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Wheel hop cure?
Hey guys,
This all started in another thread but I figured it was worthy of it's own thread. I've had a few Hondas and they all had wheel hop. (all stick shifts I don't think it's as much of an issue with autos). Haven't taken the CL to the strip yet but it seems like I can induce hop pretty easily when launching. I have found a couple causes for this. One is weak motor mounts and another is soft radius arm bushings. As there are currently no aftermaket solutions available for the CL I was thinking about using a home made fix I found. These show using a liquid polyuerethane (Windo Weld) to fill the voids in motor mounts thus making them perform like solid rubber mounts. I think it could also be used to stiffen up the radius rod bushings. Any thoughts on this? Anybody ever tried it? Seems like it would work at least as good as those motor mount inserts. Doesn't seem like vibration should be too much of an issuse with the V6. Here are some examples of the motor mount mod:
http://www.raktron.com/misc/mt.htm
http://importnut.net/motormount.htm
This all started in another thread but I figured it was worthy of it's own thread. I've had a few Hondas and they all had wheel hop. (all stick shifts I don't think it's as much of an issue with autos). Haven't taken the CL to the strip yet but it seems like I can induce hop pretty easily when launching. I have found a couple causes for this. One is weak motor mounts and another is soft radius arm bushings. As there are currently no aftermaket solutions available for the CL I was thinking about using a home made fix I found. These show using a liquid polyuerethane (Windo Weld) to fill the voids in motor mounts thus making them perform like solid rubber mounts. I think it could also be used to stiffen up the radius rod bushings. Any thoughts on this? Anybody ever tried it? Seems like it would work at least as good as those motor mount inserts. Doesn't seem like vibration should be too much of an issuse with the V6. Here are some examples of the motor mount mod:
http://www.raktron.com/misc/mt.htm
http://importnut.net/motormount.htm
08-11-2003, 05:28 PM
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The auto CLs do it also. Bugs the heck out of me when it happens to mine. Especially if the road is a bigt wet I have to baby my take-offs. Better (grippier) tires would help, right?
08-11-2003, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by blackmagiCL_S
The auto CLs do it also. Bugs the heck out of me when it happens to mine. Especially if the road is a bigt wet I have to baby my take-offs. Better (grippier) tires would help, right?
The auto CLs do it also. Bugs the heck out of me when it happens to mine. Especially if the road is a bigt wet I have to baby my take-offs. Better (grippier) tires would help, right?
08-12-2003, 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by ChadT
Grippier tires might make it worse as they load the suspension more. I think it does it bad in the wet because the tires break loose easily and get everything oscilating. I know my Prelude wheel hopped worse on grippier tires.
Grippier tires might make it worse as they load the suspension more. I think it does it bad in the wet because the tires break loose easily and get everything oscilating. I know my Prelude wheel hopped worse on grippier tires.
probable reasons: for wheel-spin, too much air in the tires, not enough grip...for wheel hop, too little air, too much grip
08-12-2003, 07:12 AM
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My tires hop like CRAZY if I drop the clutch too quick.
It’s borderline annoying.
I’m running 35-PSI. Do you think I should go higher?
It’s already pretty stiff when I hit a bump and I don’t want to shake any fillings loose.
I’m actually thinking about getting LESS sticky tires when I replace the Falkens next year.
I love the way she handles the twisty roads, but I can’t get a good launch fer SHIT without taking it easy or slipping the clutch.
Shawn S
It’s borderline annoying.
I’m running 35-PSI. Do you think I should go higher?
It’s already pretty stiff when I hit a bump and I don’t want to shake any fillings loose.
I’m actually thinking about getting LESS sticky tires when I replace the Falkens next year.
I love the way she handles the twisty roads, but I can’t get a good launch fer SHIT without taking it easy or slipping the clutch.
Shawn S
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08-12-2003, 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Shawn S
I’m running 35-PSI. Do you think I should go higher?
It’s already pretty stiff when I hit a bump
I’m running 35-PSI. Do you think I should go higher?
It’s already pretty stiff when I hit a bump
Some1 needs to do what Jens suggested.. a 92 Ford Vintage Explorer bushings.. get some from a junk yard.. trim them and then send them to that Polyform company that makes bushings so they can produce them for our cars...
Smitty
08-12-2003, 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Scooter
what yer talkin about isn't wheel hop...yer just spinnin the tire b/c lack of grip...wheel hop is when there's too much grip, the car feels like it's stuttering hard on the road and u hear/feel big banging sounds...spinning the tires u'll just hear it, but u won't feel much of anything
what yer talkin about isn't wheel hop...yer just spinnin the tire b/c lack of grip...wheel hop is when there's too much grip, the car feels like it's stuttering hard on the road and u hear/feel big banging sounds...spinning the tires u'll just hear it, but u won't feel much of anything
08-12-2003, 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Scooter
in that case, yeah that's hop...sorry i misunderstood u...normally, u'd just spin the tires, smoke em up, and go nowhere fast
in that case, yeah that's hop...sorry i misunderstood u...normally, u'd just spin the tires, smoke em up, and go nowhere fast
08-12-2003, 10:57 AM
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I most definitely get a lot of wheel hop and not so much spinning the tires but I think I found a fix that you all might like:
http://wirednj.com/products.php?cate...20030616151655
If anyone wants to give me some feedback before I go buying it I'd appreciate it.
http://wirednj.com/products.php?cate...20030616151655
If anyone wants to give me some feedback before I go buying it I'd appreciate it.
08-12-2003, 12:04 PM
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FEATURE:
• Controls torque, diminishes wheel hop and improves manual transmission shifting.
• A must to use with modified motors and if you're heavy footed!
• Protects your existing O.E.M. rubber mounts from tearing.
• Even works with torn O.E.M. mounts.
• Can be removed later for stock running, if so desired.
• Installs in just 5 to 10 minutes on Accords and Civics!
• Durable HYPER-FLEX™ performance polyurethane construction....
Why not call them and see if they will make an application for our cars???
• Controls torque, diminishes wheel hop and improves manual transmission shifting.
• A must to use with modified motors and if you're heavy footed!
• Protects your existing O.E.M. rubber mounts from tearing.
• Even works with torn O.E.M. mounts.
• Can be removed later for stock running, if so desired.
• Installs in just 5 to 10 minutes on Accords and Civics!
• Durable HYPER-FLEX™ performance polyurethane construction....
Why not call them and see if they will make an application for our cars???
08-12-2003, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by KissMy_Type_S
I most definitely get a lot of wheel hop and not so much spinning the tires but I think I found a fix that you all might like:
http://wirednj.com/products.php?cate...20030616151655
If anyone wants to give me some feedback before I go buying it I'd appreciate it.
I most definitely get a lot of wheel hop and not so much spinning the tires but I think I found a fix that you all might like:
http://wirednj.com/products.php?cate...20030616151655
If anyone wants to give me some feedback before I go buying it I'd appreciate it.
http://importnut.net/motormount.htm
is supposed to do the same thing. Basically filling the voids with urethane. Inserts would probably be less messy though.
08-13-2003, 07:10 AM
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I called Wired (who I had met at the Import Drags at Englishtown) and they were about as helpful on the phone as they were at the races... but anyway they don't have it for the CL as you already knew. I like Smitty's idea so I'm gonna do a little digging to find out the company info and make a few phone calls. In the meantime whoever is interested in getting these fab'ed for the CL please post and let me know so I have a little leverage with the company. For the $40 bucks (maybe slightly more because of new mold etc. I presume) I think this is one of the most effective mods you can make IMO.
08-13-2003, 09:16 AM
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Well I just got off the phone with Energy Suspension, who may I add was very helpful and informative, must've talked for a good 20 mins. Anyway:
There is no suspension add-ons planned for the CL and none in the works either, that goes the same for the Accord V6 too I found out. Basically their reasoning is that our cars are more or less "touring cars" and there isnt enough intrest is "drag racing" components for our vehicles. Apparently we are the anomaly, the rep I spoke to was actually kind of shocked that I even said I raced my car. He was even more shocked to find out that there are that many modded CL's out there running high 13's, low 14's. In any case he said for a group buy of 40 or 50 sets they'd do it (infact they'd do it if I was the only one buying it) but its going to kill us in tooling/mold costs about $3K, BUT it would be our own part number so I assume that means we would own the rights to it. If that aspect intrests anyone than that I guess is a seperate issue. He did tell me flat out that its cheaper, easier and faster to google search polyurethane or urethane and there will be all kinds of vendors that you can purchase raw material to melt down and apply to existing mounts by the process that was already shown in this thread. I told him about the urethane/caulk gun method and he said that would work just as good if not better than both melting down raw urethane or even their fab'ed inserts.
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
There is no suspension add-ons planned for the CL and none in the works either, that goes the same for the Accord V6 too I found out. Basically their reasoning is that our cars are more or less "touring cars" and there isnt enough intrest is "drag racing" components for our vehicles. Apparently we are the anomaly, the rep I spoke to was actually kind of shocked that I even said I raced my car. He was even more shocked to find out that there are that many modded CL's out there running high 13's, low 14's. In any case he said for a group buy of 40 or 50 sets they'd do it (infact they'd do it if I was the only one buying it) but its going to kill us in tooling/mold costs about $3K, BUT it would be our own part number so I assume that means we would own the rights to it. If that aspect intrests anyone than that I guess is a seperate issue. He did tell me flat out that its cheaper, easier and faster to google search polyurethane or urethane and there will be all kinds of vendors that you can purchase raw material to melt down and apply to existing mounts by the process that was already shown in this thread. I told him about the urethane/caulk gun method and he said that would work just as good if not better than both melting down raw urethane or even their fab'ed inserts.
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
08-13-2003, 09:39 AM
#23
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Originally posted by KissMy_Type_S
Well I just got off the phone with Energy Suspension, who may I add was very helpful and informative, must've talked for a good 20 mins. Anyway:
There is no suspension add-ons planned for the CL and none in the works either, that goes the same for the Accord V6 too I found out. Basically their reasoning is that our cars are more or less "touring cars" and there isnt enough intrest is "drag racing" components for our vehicles. Apparently we are the anomaly, the rep I spoke to was actually kind of shocked that I even said I raced my car. He was even more shocked to find out that there are that many modded CL's out there running high 13's, low 14's. In any case he said for a group buy of 40 or 50 sets they'd do it (infact they'd do it if I was the only one buying it) but its going to kill us in tooling/mold costs about $3K, BUT it would be our own part number so I assume that means we would own the rights to it. If that aspect intrests anyone than that I guess is a seperate issue. He did tell me flat out that its cheaper, easier and faster to google search polyurethane or urethane and there will be all kinds of vendors that you can purchase raw material to melt down and apply to existing mounts by the process that was already shown in this thread. I told him about the urethane/caulk gun method and he said that would work just as good if not better than both melting down raw urethane or even their fab'ed inserts.
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
Well I just got off the phone with Energy Suspension, who may I add was very helpful and informative, must've talked for a good 20 mins. Anyway:
There is no suspension add-ons planned for the CL and none in the works either, that goes the same for the Accord V6 too I found out. Basically their reasoning is that our cars are more or less "touring cars" and there isnt enough intrest is "drag racing" components for our vehicles. Apparently we are the anomaly, the rep I spoke to was actually kind of shocked that I even said I raced my car. He was even more shocked to find out that there are that many modded CL's out there running high 13's, low 14's. In any case he said for a group buy of 40 or 50 sets they'd do it (infact they'd do it if I was the only one buying it) but its going to kill us in tooling/mold costs about $3K, BUT it would be our own part number so I assume that means we would own the rights to it. If that aspect intrests anyone than that I guess is a seperate issue. He did tell me flat out that its cheaper, easier and faster to google search polyurethane or urethane and there will be all kinds of vendors that you can purchase raw material to melt down and apply to existing mounts by the process that was already shown in this thread. I told him about the urethane/caulk gun method and he said that would work just as good if not better than both melting down raw urethane or even their fab'ed inserts.
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
08-13-2003, 10:50 AM
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Yea I like that idea, cheaper is always better. If you know of someone to ask, please do so I'm definitely interested and I'll even be the test dummy and fab the first set. I'll post my review afterward. I only have one concern... I realize that by using the urethane that it almost repairs the torn mount, but to what degree do you think, is a torn mount still acceptable to use for this project.
08-13-2003, 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by KissMy_Type_S
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna buy a new set of all the mounts and urethane them all then just bring them to be installed in place of my stock ones, unless anyone else has a better idea?
What do you guys think about filling the radius rod bushings with urethane also for a poor man's Z-bar?
08-14-2003, 06:24 AM
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There must be some more things that you can urethane too
www.energysuspension.com
Thats the companies website. They look like they have a pretty good line of little suspension extras (not standard stuff ie. sways, bars, coils, shocks, etc.) Its just unfortunate that they don't see the potentials in the CL's and Accord V6's because I'm sure they share a lot of the same parts rite?
www.energysuspension.com
Thats the companies website. They look like they have a pretty good line of little suspension extras (not standard stuff ie. sways, bars, coils, shocks, etc.) Its just unfortunate that they don't see the potentials in the CL's and Accord V6's because I'm sure they share a lot of the same parts rite?
08-14-2003, 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by KissMy_Type_S
There must be some more things that you can urethane too
www.energysuspension.com
Thats the companies website. They look like they have a pretty good line of little suspension extras (not standard stuff ie. sways, bars, coils, shocks, etc.) Its just unfortunate that they don't see the potentials in the CL's and Accord V6's because I'm sure they share a lot of the same parts rite?
There must be some more things that you can urethane too
www.energysuspension.com
Thats the companies website. They look like they have a pretty good line of little suspension extras (not standard stuff ie. sways, bars, coils, shocks, etc.) Its just unfortunate that they don't see the potentials in the CL's and Accord V6's because I'm sure they share a lot of the same parts rite?
08-14-2003, 07:05 AM
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Not for nothing but our cars weight, styling, and demo isnt all that different from the BMW's and def not the Infinity. Those parts I'm sure are available for those. Its just not fair damnit!
BTW The ride looked real good, both of 'em did ... Are you still goin to NJ?
BTW The ride looked real good, both of 'em did ... Are you still goin to NJ?
08-14-2003, 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by ChadT
Nice work on the research. I was thinking the same thing about getting stock mounts to use. This way you could let the mounts cure for a while and then swap them with minimal down time but I think a set of factory mounts is a bit of change. Could probably sell the old ones though or we could set up some sort of exchange deal.
What do you guys think about filling the radius rod bushings with urethane also for a poor man's Z-bar?
Nice work on the research. I was thinking the same thing about getting stock mounts to use. This way you could let the mounts cure for a while and then swap them with minimal down time but I think a set of factory mounts is a bit of change. Could probably sell the old ones though or we could set up some sort of exchange deal.
What do you guys think about filling the radius rod bushings with urethane also for a poor man's Z-bar?
08-14-2003, 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by KissMy_Type_S
Not for nothing but our cars weight, styling, and demo isnt all that different from the BMW's and def not the Infinity. Those parts I'm sure are available for those. Its just not fair damnit!
BTW The ride looked real good, both of 'em did ... Are you still goin to NJ?
Not for nothing but our cars weight, styling, and demo isnt all that different from the BMW's and def not the Infinity. Those parts I'm sure are available for those. Its just not fair damnit!
BTW The ride looked real good, both of 'em did ... Are you still goin to NJ?
my car was a mess last night...u'll see her all shiny bright on the 24th
09-02-2003, 05:24 PM
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:thinking: Uhh...er....No Smitty I haven't done it yet. Should have tore into it this weekend. Just need to pick up some window weld and have enough time to let it cure. Anyone know how hard the mounts are to get out? The Helms doesn't really have a mount removal procedure. Just shows them with the engine removal. I was just thinking about this today. Car wheel hops like crazy! Thanks for reminding me. Definitely want to do this before I take her to the strip.
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