Check out the jd powers ratings on www.autonews.com. the acura tl lost it's tie with the es300, the only acura up there now is the integra, which isn't even alive anymore.

 

ouch.

whuzzup with that?

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_-Phil-_!
2K1 #10,029 Satin Silver CL-S since 6/13/00 named Laetitia with Navi! Mods : XEPHYR PERFORMANCE CAI~3M Reflective Tint(37%) tint~Hiper Hibrid Plasma "Xenon" road lamps & high-beams~Uniden LRD 6599SWS Radar Detector~Shine by Meguiar's Gold Wax~Member of the Scratched Rims Club~Upgraded cupholder ~

CL/TL/IS/3-Series meet Thurs. May 17! http://www.acura-cl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005313.html click for details!

 

** Toggling ranting mode ON **

What's up with JD Powers?? Is this "Initial Quality Survey" like the dumbest thing in the world or what?? Tracking problems in the first 90 days of ownership basically means nothing to a car's overall quality. It's a measure of assembly quality, and quite frankly, not even a really good one.

** Toggling ranting mode OFF **

 

watch, now people will start flaming us for raggin on jd power & associates.

[flame suit on]

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_-Phil-_!
2K1 #10,029 Satin Silver CL-S since 6/13/00 named Laetitia with Navi! Mods : XEPHYR PERFORMANCE CAI~3M Reflective Tint(37%) tint~Hiper Hibrid Plasma "Xenon" road lamps & high-beams~Uniden LRD 6599SWS Radar Detector~Shine by Meguiar's Gold Wax~Member of the Scratched Rims Club~Upgraded cupholder ~

CL/TL/IS/3-Series meet Thurs. May 17! http://www.acura-cl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005313.html click for details!

 

Don't forget the shit goggles..

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Northern Cali Meet, June 10. BBBQ!!! - Click Here

 

They chose America West to be the best short distance airline with the best customer service for serveral year running. I flied with them once. ... got delayed at every single stop. Best Airline? Best customer service? WTF?


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'01 Silver CL-S
Painted Mud Guard
Silver Aluminum Pedals
Kenwood Amp with 10in. Pioneer sub.
(modified) CAI.

My Car

 

i don't think it means too much...volkswagens suck,but people still like them.

 

"Initial" quality ... this category has to be a joke, right???#@!

So .. if a few more Acuras had some pre-90 day warranty fixes .. i.e. rattle/squeak fixes, they drop down big time .. what a joke. When I think long-term reliability, I'm usually only thinkin' about the engine running solid and smooth, as w/ the tranny, and all my accessories functioning properly.

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2002 Acura TL-S
White Diamond Pearl/Parchment
Bone Stock
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1629963&a=12459969&f=0
" TARGET=_blank>Click Here for Pics!
</A>

 

Initial quality is actually a very important aspect of any new car.

MOST new car defects will be apparent within the first 90 days of ownership. Once a new car makes it past that mark without problems or with minor problems repaired, they're usually ok for the next few years.

Studies/research have been done on this. Just ask gavriil.

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99 M3
dead CL-S

Tom2: The Voice Of Reason

 

When I first got my car a month ago, I noticed a couple of sqeaks and rattles but after a few weeks, they are now gone??? I don't know what happens to them- was the car settling or something? Pretty wierd shit!

-Ash

 

according to this link that someone posted before: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...ervicemmy1.cfm

this shows that for the cl-s, there's a lot of little problems that people reported here and there, a lot of it i think are just stupid complaints.

no i checked out the ones for the is300, which only had one: wind noise in the rear window

or something like that.

now the problems they did have (popping door noise, sulfur smell, bottom engine cover falling off) must've gone somewhere, but it ain't here, and a lot of those are more serious than 90% of the ones for the cl-s.

now i think that has something to do with it, but not sure 'cuz I'm not sure where JD gets their info from.

maybe acura reports all their problems no matter how little, and lexus decides what they think should be reported or not...i don't know.

 

What is even more astounding is that in the "corporate car" category. Where they average in all of a manufacturers car segments. Chrysler BEAT Honda. You read that right! Chrysler 131, Honda 132.

Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye folks. This is one of the signs of Armageddon.

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- The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.

01 Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
Dunlop SP5000 215/50/17
Navigation-Spoiler-Muds-Wheel locks-35% Tint-PIAA wedges-V1 and remote

[This message has been edited by Rock Dog (edited 05-18-2001).]

 

Initial quality surveys are only a "very important aspect..." to the marketing departments within the industry. And is no indication of how a vehicle will hold up over the course of a few years.

The key words here are "initial quality". This is a subjective concept, based more on owner perception. The industry understands this. That is why this is the "smoke and mirrors" rating. This rating, if favorable, is used to sell cars.

The higher end nameplates take a bigger hit here on average, because their customers expect more. A longtime Ford owner is going to be more forgiving of minor rattles and glitches that may occur in his Lincoln LS. Longtime Acura or Lexus owners, will not be as forgiving to TL or ES300 respectively.

------------------
- The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.

01 Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
Dunlop SP5000 215/50/17
Navigation-Spoiler-Muds-Wheel locks-35% Tint-PIAA wedges-V1 and remote

[This message has been edited by Rock Dog (edited 05-18-2001).]

 

check this out:
http://www.auto.com/industry/iqs18_20010518.htm

acura placed behind jaguar, and honda placed unexpectedly low too, but still a lot better than average.

 

I hope that Honda will take notice and do something about their quality control. The kind of problems that are experienced by the members here and could be avoided from the factory, for example, apply the damn anti-squeak tape to the *$*%% sunroof and make sure the panels are aligned _before_ the car leaves the factory.


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2001 Acura 3.2 CL TypeS -- White/Ebony, No Emblems
1998 Honda Prelude -- Black/Black, MN5

 

To put it in proper perspective, I've only had the bottom cover loosen (and it's near the differential, which is in the rear, not the engine; it has no effect on the functionality of the car at all except in reducing wind noise and drag), and just about everyone that has ever attended an IS meet that I've been to has not had any major problems at all (except N1, who does have a real issue with his PS pump). And not owning an IS, you're reading a bit of your own visual imagination into what is actually happening, because even the problems that do occur are actually very minor.

You guys need to understand that the nature of Internet discussion forums amplifies the voice of anomalies. Heck, from what I read on these forums, I can rattle off an entire list of problems that seem to be occurring epidemically to the CL/CL-S, such as:

1. Non-functional IMRC actuator. This is an actual mechanical problem that affects the performance of the engine, BTW.
2. Misaligned body panels.
3. Squeaky moonroof.
4. Interior rattles.
5. Bad paint.
6. Failing power windows/power mirrors.

That's what somebody can gather just by browsing your Car Talk forum. But of course I can understand that the majority of you don't actually have any of these problems. Some guys do, and they're talking about it here. You guys need to realize that's what's also happening when you read the IS boards. You only see the 10 people who do have problems and miss the silent 500 that don't.

I agree w/Rock Dog and Tom2 w/varying degrees on their points. Between the two of them, they're right. (Am I a politician extraordinare or what? )

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051/LP/SR/LD/HH
Potenza S-02 Pole Position

The Reasonable Voice of Bias

[This message has been edited by DtEW (edited 05-19-2001).]

 

you got my point exactly then...few and minor problems for the is300 aren't listed on the service bulletin.

few and minor problems for the cl-s ARE listed on the service bulletin, and that's the discrepency my post is trying to point out.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Tom and DTew

I am surprised to see Merc doing so bad and Jaguar, BMW and Saab doing so well though. Just a note. Especially Jag. Wow! Good job. I guess Ford's money is not wasted in this case...gee.

Of course, no surprise with Lexus here. These guys are so consistent in all tests
(including satisfaction of ownership) for the past decade that it is really amazing. Consistent excellence in quality guys is VERY expensive to achieve. It is not a simple or easy matter. Lexus hires great people, I am amazed by these guys on this matter.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 05-19-2001).]

 

mrdeeno: I'm not so sure you got the gist of my post, though. I'm only trying to counter your perspective that the IS is full of minor problems and "a lot of those are more serious than 90% of the ones for the cl-s." I've met enough IS'ers to conclude that there aren't that many real problems.

Am I really trying to make a point about how trouble-free the CL-S is? Not really, because I haven't met enough CL-S'ers or talked to them in enough depth to reach any conclusion. In rhetoric I've given you guys the benefit of the doubt in the absence proof. But it shouldn't be used as support for a point, as it is based on only speculation, albeit favorable.

"Results of the 2001 IQS study are based on more than 54,000 new-vehicle owners and lessees surveyed after 90 days of ownership and cover 135 potential problem symptoms."

Like the vast majority of polling and opinion surveys, J. D. Powers directly surveys a random sample amongst the car buyers, presumeably by mail. If a problem is/isn't listed in the report, it has nothing to do with what a manufacturer "reports."

------------------
051/LP/SR/LD/HH
Potenza S-02 Pole Position

The Reasonable Voice of Bias

[This message has been edited by DtEW (edited 05-19-2001).]