gavriil

I cannot believe that there are people here that believe that VSA is actually completely or almost completely useless.

JZ wrote:

"I really think VSA is almost worthless. In the snow where it might actually be useful. without snow tires it really doesn't help much anyways. In the rain is hasn't helped me one bit (and, in fact when I first got the car I plowed right through an off ramp no problem and VSA didn't do me one bit of good)."

In the rain it has not helped you one bit? I really do not know what car you are driving but no matter what I tell you, we are supposed to have the same car here and I can tell you that VSA has saved me a couple of times in the rain and more times in the snow.

GoldTypeS wrote:

"I agree with JZ and JSuppi... I have yet to see VSA do anything. I had it on the entire time we were playin' yesterday and I didn't get a peep out of the thing. And this included the time I got the tail to step out a couple feet when lifting the throttle on the apex of a left curve that goes over a hill simultaneously (no, I don't have a death wish - its fun, really - you should try it!)"

Maybe because VSA is supposed to save and because it saved you, you did not think anything happened. HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE SAY that VSA did not do anything when you DO NOT know what the result would have been of that same situation with VSA off (unless you were specificaly testing the same manuver on the same location at the same speed under identical conditions which I do not think you were as you were not at the track).

Finally, forget abou what I think. Here is the ultimate of arguments in my opinion: DO YOU THINK that Acura would go all the way to pay for the research, development, installation, marketing and additional cost that VSA adds to the value of the car FOR NOTHING? Forget about Acura too. At this point, Stability Control systems are getting almost a commodity (especially in Europe). All of these manufacturers are wrong and you are right?

I have made this a separate thread cos it should generate a lot of traffic. Comments everyone...

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Gabriel
CL Type S

WebToker

I would rather have quattro...


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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Exhaust
Apexi V-AFC
AEM CAI

Nashua_Night_Hawk

What is more interesting is that the VSA will correct both understeer and oversteer.

I am sure a lot of guys will agree with me having VSA alone is worth more tan the $2,000 extra you pay foe the Type-S badge.

Most of the guys do not know what is VSA...

I have the helms man and let me check....There a whole chapter of 83 pages for the VSA alone!!!

VSA is not a ricer BS!

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards
- Winter mats
- Trunk liner
- Acura Spoiler
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI

gavriil

THANK YOU!

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Gabriel
CL Type S

sniper

people complain about things they don't understand or are not familiar with. You have to take any comments from people on systems like VSA and sport shift with a gain of salt. VSA is a good system and works well, accomplishing what is was designed to accomplish. Same thing with the sport shift. alot of people complain about the pause in the shift, but once they learn how to drive with the sport shift they will realize that the pause is no longer than the abmount of time it would take to depress a clutch and pull the shifter.
I understand what your saying, and I also understand how frustrating it is to hear people that know nothing about automotive engineering sit around and bitch all day. Bottom line is, they will keep bitching, someone will complain about their bitching, and then they will bitch some more. You might as well get ready, they are gonna light you up on this one, because I'm sure most are professional drivers with a background in automotive engineering.

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Black Type S, Spoiler, Comptech Headers, AEM CAI, Comptech Springs and Sway Bars...touch my car I WILL kill you
my other car is a hummer

GoldTypeS_RENAMED

VSA is supposed to make itself known by flashing the little exclamation point, right? This is my understanding of how it's **supposed** to work. I'm just saying I've NEVER gotten VSA to flash at me in the twisties - even when I've drifted the damn car!!!! Therefore I concluded that it's not doing anything. Maybe I'm wrong and it is doing something, but I know people on this board have said that it flashes at them. I just have to wonder why it doesn't ever flash at me. I've done some pretty crazy things in my car and very high speeds in the twisties. If it is doing something, it's certainly very unobtrusive!



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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers
PIAA 19169

Closer

You don't want the VSA triggering too early. The car was designed for sporty driving. The VSA was designed for stupid driving. Trust me... on the test drive, we got the Exclamation Point several times.

One time saved the salesman from putting the car in a ditch under "initially" heavy understeer. The brakes grabbed, the back end swung around and we pulled out. Not possible without VSA braking help.

mrdeeno

it saved my ass about a month ago, that's all i can say.

but all i can say is i barely noticed the light flash (but i did catch it on the last flash) cuz i was looking at the road and saying "please dont' hit a tree, please don't hit a tree, please don't hit a tree!"

gavriil

Yes, VSA and/or TC is working when the light is flashing which means that if you have not seen the light, you were operating in the range of safe driving according to this car's handling dynamics.

Here, do this: During a rainy or snowy day, while sitting on a red light and ready to turn 90 degrees right and being first in line, nail it and watch VSA/TC go crazy. Even on a dry day this is possible actually.

Finally, VSA is there to save you from not only miscalculating a situation but from unexpected things like: What if while taking a trun safely and the day being dry you put one of your wheels on spilled oil without realizing it? THAT is a hypothetical situation when you will be THANKING Acura for VSA. I just hope you have it ON and not being a fool like some here playing it ENGINEER of the YEAR by actually thinking that having VSA OFF are doing something smart.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 03-22-2001).]

PhilRmd

I was anxious to check out the capabilities of the VSA.
I ran slalom runs in a snow covered parking lot, both with stock tires and Blizzaks and with VSA on and off and was disappointed to notice virtually no difference (even when trying to break the car loose).
There is, however, a huge difference between stock tires and blizzaks.

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2001 CL-S; Red/Parchment

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Also , read this... VSA has 2, yes 2 CPUs working in parallel fashion (in a fault-tolerant mode) and self checking each other regularly. It has also a Gyro sensor of its own, 4-wheels maganetic speed sensors, a steering wheels sensor too!.

Please , could you name me a list of $32k cars that have VSA standard, even as option?

Myself, The First VSA-like I heard about was the Active handling systems of Corvettes!

Now, you will see it on BMWs....
------------------
Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards
- Winter mats
- Trunk liner
- Acura Spoiler
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI

[This message has been edited by Nashua_Night_Hawk (edited 03-22-2001).]

gavriil

BMW came out with their stability system called DSC before Acura put it in their cars. Same with Mercedes (Merc was the first in Europe I believe to offer this).

In Europe, as I wrote before, VSA is standard or an option on almost all new cars now. Even cars that are as big as an Echo or Metro have some type of Vehicle Stability Assist on the options list. Traction Control is almost standard now on most cars. Of course, all Stability Assists systems are not the same (like ABS even now).

They are getting more and more ubiquitous here in the US too. There are 32K cars that have this as an option. Do your research and you will find a few.



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Gabriel
CL Type S

gavriil

Since there is enough interest about this issue here is a very comprehensive piece on what has happened the past 5 years with ESP:

PART 1

Five years ago, a landmark in automotive engineering went into series production: the Electronic Stability Program (ESP). With this invention, Mercedes-Benz made a major contribution to active vehicle safety. ESP reduces the risk of skids and slides during cornering and keeps a car on track even in extreme conditions, for example on wet or icy roads. Today, this system is standard specification on all Mercedes passenger cars. The foundations were laid by Mercedes-Benz back in the seventies when it developed the anti-lock braking system (ABS) and acceleration skid control (ASR). This led as early as 1987 to the first trials with vehicles equipped with a so-called "transverse slip control" system. Since then, this joint invention by Mercedes-Benz and Bosch has proved itself millions of times over in practice and is also available to other manufacturers. The new C-class is fitted with a third-generation ESP system with extended capability and even more sensitive response.

Arjeplog, northern Sweden, March 1994: on the ice flats of Lake Hornovan, two Mercedes test cars are being put through their paces. One of them is steering a neat and steady course round the circuit. But the second vehicle is having a hard time - the tail keeps breaking away on the treacherous surface, and each time the driver has to countersteer and accelerate to stay on track.
At the edge of the test site journalists from all over the world are looking on. They are witnessing the world debut of an automotive landmark jointly developed by Mercedes-Benz and Robert Bosch GmbH: the test car staying firmly on track is equipped with the active safety system ESP (Electronic Stability Program).
Barely a year after it was presented to the press in Arjeplog, this trailblazing technology went into production at Mercedes-Benz in the S 600 coupé, the first ESP-equipped car in the world. The S-class saloon and the SL roadster followed a few months later. Today - five years on - ESP is standard specification on all Mercedes-Benz passenger cars and is playing an important part in preventing accidents. No other automotive brand equips its range so comprehensively with active safety technology.

The first beginnings: Mercedes patent of 1959

ESP went into production following eight years of intensive research and development. And if the concept phase is taken into account, the total realisation time was more than three decades. As long ago as 1959, Professor Fritz Nallinger, Chief Engineer and Member of the Board of Management of Daimler-Benz, patented a "control device" designed to prevent spinning of the driving wheels by intervention in the engine, transmission or brakes.

The idea was good, but for a long time it remained just theory. Sensors and control systems capable of performing the necessary stabilising operations with split-second speed were not available. Only later, with rapidly advancing microelectronics technology and with the anti-lock braking system (ABS) proving itself in the field, was the way gradually opened for Professor Nallinger's vision to become reality. Based on ABS technology, Mercedes-Benz now developed acceleration skid control (ASR). ASR intervened in both the brake system and the engine to regulate the play between the longitudinal forces at the tyre and the road surface. This system operated not only during braking but for the first time also when accelerating. ASR made its debut in a standard-production Mercedes in 1981. It was followed by the automatic locking differential (ASD, 1985) and the innovative 4MATIC full-time four-wheel drive (1985).

The common characteristic of these systems is that by monitoring and limiting wheel slip with the aid of state-of-the art microelectronic and hydraulic systems they improve the "longitudinal dynamics" of the vehicle. But the Mercedes engineers were not content with their achievements for long. Soon they were aiming to improve active safety in all situations, for example during cornering, evasive manoeuvres or other vehicle movements which affect transverse dynamics and involve a high risk of skidding.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

gavriil

PART 2

A logical progression: ABS, ASR and ASD followed by ESP

Thus they embarked on yet another ambitious development project, entitled "transverse slip control". The aim was to look for ways of identifying skidding movements of the vehicle and combating them by selective intervention in the chassis, engine and transmission. Following extensive computer simulations and preliminary research, the first trials of this system in test cars began in 1987 and in the course of the next few years thousands of kilometres were covered. At the same time the system was also being tested in the Berlin driving simulator: eighty drivers were asked to drive at speeds of 100 km/h on an imaginary road. Tricky icy situations were simulated on four bends, where traction was reduced by more than 70 per cent without prior warning. The result: without ESP , 78 per cent of the drivers were unable to keep their car on track and during the course of the test suffered up to three accidents due to skidding. When the simulations were carried out with ESP however, none of the drivers suffered skids or accidents. Not surprisingly therefore, the Mercedes engineers decided it was time to put ESP into practice. Development of a standard-production version began in 1992. More than 40 engineers from Mercedes-Benz and Bosch took part in the ground-breaking project.

Elaborate sensor system detects every movement of the vehicle

ESP operates by monitoring and comparing: sensors record driver and vehicle behaviour. They send their data to a high-performance microcomputer in which a mathematical reference model is stored. The vehicle's actual status is compared with what the reference model indicates is appropriate in the given situation, thus identifying any risk of a skid or slide.

In physical terms, skidding is simply a turning of the vehicle about its vertical axis. The faster this rotation, the greater the skidding movement and the greater the risk of accident. In order to accurately measure this rotational speed however a yaw sensor is required, complex technology which, before ESP, was used only in the aerospace industry and which was too expensive and too prone to malfunction for use in the automotive sector. For the Electronic Stability Program, the developers therefore came up with a similar measuring device based on a small hollow steel cylinder. Quartz crystals generate defined oscillations in the cylinder, the pattern of which is displaced under the influence of the rotational movement of the vehicle. This displacement can be counteracted by an electrical voltage, and the electrical voltage can then be used as a measurement of the rotational speed.

As well as rotational speed, the ESP microcomputer processes additional sensor inputs concerning the driver's intended direction and the car's actual track:

The steering angle sensor measures the steering angle as an indication of the direction the driver intends to take.
The wheel speed sensors register the speed selected by the driver.
The lateral acceleration sensor detects any sideways drift.
The yaw sensor is the heart of the Electronic Stability System. It measures the rotational - that is to say the skidding - movement of the car.
The pre-pressure sensor measures the brake pressure.

The ESP control unit is also connected via CAN (Controller Area Network) data bus with the engine and automatic transmission, and can thus receive current data about engine torque, throttle position and transmission ratio at all times. Via the same databus, ESP can then intervene in the electronic engine and transmission management. In this way, for instance, it can prompt the automatic transmission to switch to winter mode when the vehicle is moving off on a slippery surface.

Permanent surveillance: ESP is operational in all situations

The ESP computer continuously compares the actual behaviour of the vehicle with the pre-programmed ideal values. The moment the car deviates from its ideal line, a specially developed control logic causes the system to intervene with split-second speed, bringing the car back on track. It does this in two ways: by precisely controlled braking at one or more wheels and/or by reducing engine power.

ESP in this way both corrects driver errors and stabilises the vehicle in the event of skids due to wet, icy, gravelly or other adverse road surfaces where normally drivers would have little chance of maintaining control by steering or braking manoeuvres. Unlike acceleration skid control the system is operational under all conditions: when braking, accelerating or coasting.

Rapid intervention: briefly applied braking pressure keeps the car on track


Reduces skidding in curves by means of automatic braking intervention.
One of the strengths of the Electronic Stability Program is the speed with which it works: the sensing of oversteer and understeer, and the automatic braking intervention, are all completed within fractions of a second. For example if the rear of the car starts to swing out when taking a corner too fast, the ESP microcomputer first of all reduces engine power, thus increasing the lateral forces at the rear wheels. If this is not enough to eliminate the skidding tendency, the system also applies the brakes to the outer front wheel. The braking counteracts the critical rotational movement and restores stability. The simultaneous reduction in speed has further benefits for safety.

When ESP corrects the vehicle's course, it is not a one-off event which is completed after a brief application of the brakes. The stabilisation is an ongoing process which is continuously adapted to take account of situational changes in the dynamics of the vehicle, until the risk of skidding is eliminated. This adaptive control requires the sensors and actuators in the Electronic Stability Program to react and adapt with extreme speed. The system has to cope not only with fast lane changes or patches of black ice, it must also function whatever the carload or tyre tread depth.

ESP was developed and tested with the aid of the most advanced techniques available, which systematically evaluated all potential malfunctions. Using these techniques, every conceivable system error was analysed and methods were developed to eliminate the risk of malfunction. Amongst other things, the individual ESP components carry out self-checking routines at regular intervals. For example the vitally important yaw sensor is checked each time it supplies information, at intervals of just 20 milliseconds.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

gavriil

PART 3

Split-second coordination: how ESP works



Since the start of production in spring 1995, the Mercedes engineers have continued to refine and develop the ESP system. One of the first modifications, in 1996, was to increase the microprocessor memory from twice 48 kilobytes to twice 56 kilobytes. In the current version, which went into production in early 2000, the two ESP microprocessors each have a memory of 120 kilobytes and now also control the standard-fitted Brake Assist system.

Second generation: Brake Assist and ESP working together

In 1997 the second-generation ESP system, project name ESP 1.3, went into production. For rapid development of braking pressure, the Brake Assist system was now used. This made it possible to dispense with the pressurising pump and charge piston unit, bringing a weight saving of more than 50 per cent.

Also new was a control logic which further enhanced safety when cornering and braking at the same time: using information supplied by the sensors, ESP 1.3 identifies such a situation and stabilises the vehicle by precise control of the braking pressure at the rear axle. To counteract oversteer when braking on a corner, the microcomputer reduces the braking force applied to the inner rear wheel.

Third generation: fine modulation for enhanced comfort

The third generation of the ESP system, project name MK 20, went into production in May 2000 in the new Mercedes-Benz C-class. Once again the engineers had developed the system a stage further and numerous previously separate components were now combined. For example the electronic control unit and the hydraulic module now form one unit. In future the yaw sensor and lateral acceleration sensor too will be brought together in one unit.

The most notable feature of the third-generation ESP is that the response is fast but almost imperceptible to the driver and the brake pressure is extremely smoothly modulated. This is due to new software programming and the use of switchable restrictors in the four inlet valves of the hydraulic unit which allow smoother regulation of the brake pressure. Added to this, the brake booster is now selectively actuated in two stages. In concrete terms, this means that in the event of less severe vehicle instability, when finely modulated small quantities of braking pressure are required, the hydraulic unit alone is sufficient. Only when faced with more serious skids or very fast steering inputs from the driver is more pressure required, in which case the brake booster goes into action to bring the vehicle back under control. During fast cornering, third-generation ESP even takes into account the lateral stiffness of the tyres, giving even more sensitive control.

The Mercedes engineers now also use the yaw control to enhance safety when braking on ice or snow or on surfaces which are slippery on just one side. The anti-lock braking system makes use of the information provided by the ESP yaw sensor to proportion the brake forces at the front and rear axle during cornering in such a way that opposing, stabilising yaw forces are produced. This "ABS plus" braking system is used on the Mercedes-Benz C-class.

Fourth generation: ESP provides platform for hydraulic Brake Assist

The next generation of the Electronic Stability Program is already undergoing testing at Mercedes-Benz and will soon be making its debut in the A-class. In this fourth-generation product, the engineers have further improved the interaction between ESP and Brake Assist and have decoupled both functions from the brake booster. The brake pressure is developed instead by a new two-stage high-pressure pump in the ESP hydraulic unit. On the one hand this pump provides the precise, smooth control required for the Electronic Stability Program and on the other it is so powerful that it can act as a Brake Assist system which and can carry out an emergency braking operation at a maximum pressure of up to 200 bar with split-second speed.

The necessary signals are supplied by the wheel speed sensors, the brake light switch and two pressure sensors in the hydraulic unit, which are already used for the Electronic Stability Program. The diaphragm travel sensor and the brake booster solenoid are no longer required. In other words, like ESP, Brake Assist too will in future operate hydraulically, using the existing ESP infrastructure. This will bring further weight savings - an important consideration not only for compact vehicles like the Mercedes-Benz A-class.

Active safety: ESP makes an important contribution to accident prevention

The invention of the Electronic Stability Program ESP by Mercedes-Benz and Bosch has made an important contribution to active safety. This unique system is able to defuse potential accident situations by identifying delayed or inappropriate reactions on the part of the driver and then efficiently correcting these steering or braking errors. It does this even under extreme conditions, although it can never go so far as to suspend the laws of physics. What's more, sensor signals and simulations allow the system to identify hazards even before the driver has a chance to react. The system can therefore intervene extremely quickly in an emergency - much more quickly than even the most experienced driver. Thus with ESP, accident prevention is firmly anchored in the safety strategy of the Mercedes-Benz brand.

ESP Components in photo:


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Gabriel
CL Type S

GoldTypeS_RENAMED

Yeah, I've done this before and I've seen the light go off. But this has absolutely nothing to do with VSA being activated. This is simply the traction control system doing it's job. There is a difference between the two!!




I find it hard to believe that I'm drifting the damn car and still operating in the "range of safe driving according to the car's handling dynamics." This ain't no Vette or S2000, it's a luxury cruiser. If you ask me, the light should be flashing as soon as I lose grip. I lost grip in a big way yesterday with VSA on and I didn't see a flash. Theoretically speaking, if VSA was doing it's job, I wouldn't have lost grip in the first place.


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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers
PIAA 19169

moomaster_99

You have to remember the VSA is coupled with the traction control. It senses G-force and seamlessly corrects you when your driving...go through a turn with VSA on and then do it again with VSA off....I guarantee you will notice alot more slide when you have the VSA off. The light should only come on when it is sensing slip. And unobstrusive is the key word there...you don't want to know it is working....it would take the luxury out of the car. Just my 2 cents.


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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
(sooner than I thought...)
Comptech Headers

oonowindoo

try this... in a dry day. when u have a completely stop at the intersection, then floor it. u will see the VSA flashing, even tho u have already stop flooring it. I personally think it s a very good function. But it gets annoying sometimes, because it s way too sensitive. Once my mom was sittin in my car and i made a quick 90 degree turn. and the VSA light was flashing like crazy, then my mom soo paranoid...

JZ

All fine and dandy. All I'm saying is that I would get along just fine without it.

You don't hear any mass outcry from CL-P owners that their cars are deathtraps without the VSA and they have smaller tires/wheels and softer suspensions that the Type S. This is where you would expect to see some major problems manifest themselves.

Gavrill-if VSA has saved you so many times you might want to slow down.

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Black/black CLS
Comptech headers, springs, swaybars
Koni yellows
PIAA 19169 road lamps
Solaris Hi beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/17
Red AEM CAI
35% mirror tint next

[This message has been edited by JZ (edited 03-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JZ (edited 03-22-2001).]

mrdeeno

i think it's funny that people are complaining about this.

i can get by without power windows...but i don't complain that i have it, or that it operates too slow/fast/whatever.

yes, most people out there are getting along fine without some sort of stability system, because there are more old cars out there than new cars.

but i don't see how it is hurting anyone by having it...if it's interfering with your driving style, then turn the thing off...does it help, sure it helps...it helped me, it helped a couple of you other people...so i'm still trying to figure out what people are complaining about.

i know what we should complain about...the trunk release inside the trunk! it's completely useless!!! plus, we can't see it 99% of the time (no indicator light or anything!) and i haven't heard that it saved anyones life yet!

vsa probably didn't save my life, but it saved my car...for what i paid extra for a type-s, for that 1 time that it saved my car, i think it did it's job just fine; it's like airbags, you don't want it to do anything most of the time, right?

mrdeeno

and as for being able to understeer/oversteer with vsa on, of course it's possible because this is just a system that is supposed to assist in driving on less than perfect surfaces...if anyone tries hard enough (which it sounds like people are doing), even during good conditions, vsa can be overcome. if you're going 90mph and take a 90 degree turn, you think vsa is gonna help? of course not! it helps, it's not perfect.

unless someone bought the -s over the -p JUST for the vsa, there's really not much to complain about.

gavriil

That's right. Stability Systems will ATTEMPT to bring the back in line. It is all in the limits of what physics dictates. Great comment.


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Gabriel
CL Type S

gavriil

Did you not see that I wrote VSA/TC. TC stand for Traction Control. I know that it works up to 18mph.



If you were drifting hard then you did not see the light come on. If you were slightly drifting and the computer calculated that the drift is not a threat then it did not intervene. Your tires must have gained traction soon enough and the acceleration of yaw must have been acceptable. By the way, since you regularly have VSA off, are you sure it was on... and I know you wrote that it was. Why dont you experiment a little more with it, you might be having a malfuntion. Let's consider everything at this point.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 03-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 03-23-2001).]

gavriil

A car without stability assist is not a death trap. No one said that. Stability Assist is AN ADDED SAFETY FEATURE. There have been dozens of these features since the beggining of this century when cars went into mass production. Like seat belts and airbags.

VSA saved me not because I was going too fast but because the road conditions where unexpectedly unacceptable for driving like balck/invisible ice and sudden change in the slope of the pavement that caused a wheel to become airborn. Think of that happening without VSA or because someone thought that it is smart to have it off. At least if my car was not equipped with VSA I would have felt better even if in an accident.



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Gabriel
CL Type S

Phil_m

I just ditched my Intrepid for a Type S. (TL -- yes, I know I'm in the wrong forum, but I got here looking for an explanation on VSA).

VSA works like a hot damn, ergo my presence on this board trying to find out how it works. When I bought the Acura 10 days ago, I assumed VSA was Acura's fancy term for traction control, and didn't think a thing of it.

We've had a ugly January here on the North Pole, so there's a good 15-18 inches of semi-packed snow on the roads. I have been used to plowing through this with my Intrepid by feathering the gas pedal to find maximum power available while still maintaining some semblance of steering (in hindsight, it was very much like driving a go-cart).

Now, the TL takes the corner at whatever stupid speed I try, starts to plow familiarly, and then 'scoots' the rear end into line (a manoever with a similar feel to an emercency brake turn).

I tried this about 10 times before I began asking around about VSA, because I can't believe how good it works.

My $0.02

Bill Faure

Wow, first poster. You didn't mention if you saw the yellow triangle with the explanation point flash. Did you? I assume since you've done this 10 times you would have noticed it by now. I'm asking becuase I was performing emergency brake slides just 2 days ago and I heard the stability control working, but it never flashed the light. I only noticed the light when the front tires were spinning.

moomaster_99

Wow!! I answered this almost 2 years ago.

But let me refresh, the VSA is seamless, when it's working you won't see the light. When you are pushing it beyond its limits, it'll start flashing alerting you to the fact that the wheels are slipping. This is to let you know that you are at the limit...and that it is attempting to correct any errors you have made.

On the other subject, I think the main complaint with VSA is that it is a bit more aggressive in shutting down your more extreme manuevers and launches. The Euros have had their systems longer and have used them a lot longer, so they have a better idea of what drivers want out of it.

bkknight369

yea dam...gav was awesome then too

LiLMaN

So I guess when it rains turn VSA on.. and when your gonna race turn it off? Thats what someone told me on this site couple weeks ago before I got my Car last week. (Sorry dont have a car manual and waiting for one) So I have no clue what VSA actually is.

Doc.Booty

Saves me at least once a week on the way to school - our roads are hardly ever plowed correctly, and the administration would rather die than call a snow day, so i slip and slide everywhere. Even at 5mph i get slippage around some turns, and VSA keeps me from going into the other lane.

ComptechType-S

VSA is the shiznit! I went autocrossing this weekend and i ran a 50 without VSA and a low 49 with it on (by accident). My car would plow and slide when braking without VSA. With VSA it seemed to maintain a little more control.

If anyone wants to check out what VSA really does take your car to any autocross. Run the course with and without, you'll be able to tell the difference.


Peace!

blackmagiCL_S

When you are going to race, turn it off. If your wheels are spinning it wll forcefully take the power away from the wheels as opposed to you just edging off the gas a bit to stop the wheel spin.

I was told by someone at the dealership as well that when you car is stuck (ice, snow) then you should take it off also since your wheels will be spinning and you won't get any power since VSA keeps taking the power away to stop the spinning. Before someone misunderstands, that is when you are STUCK, not when you are driving and it happens to be slippery. That is when you want it on!

That being said, VSA is wonderful and has probably saved many of the people on this forum and they never knew it!

Paul

I have a CL-P and i wish i have VSA on mine. I dont really drive fast but the car seems to loose control if i turn a little faster. A few months ago i took a turn at about 60 and the back started skidding and before i know it, it did a 180. Thank god i didnt hit anything. I had my friend take his type S around the same turn at 70 and his VSA was flashing, car took the turn with no problem. I was actually wondering if theres anyway to add VSA to a CLP. hmmm

chikai

interesting comment. I would say to leave it on especially if you are stuck in a stand still. I can't imagine VSA would cut all throttle even when the car is not capable of moving. Either way, I've never been in that situation (knock on bowling ball wood)...

acur8ly

iTrader: (1)

Vsa has saved me several times this year alone. Most memorable, one Sunday evening while driving home in the snow on I270. I tried to pass a Pathfinder that was driving in two lanes. I gave the car more gas to build up speed (doing about 45). Passenger side hit an area of deeper snow and started to loose grip. I felt the car starting to wiggle. The vsa light came on and I could feel the engine power fluctuating. I regained control and slowed down. Last Friday night when we had that big snow My vsa was going crazy. It actually dictated how fast I could drive. I would keep a certain speed and gradually increase till it flashed. Even if I lifted off the trottle and went back it seemed like it was making me aware of the limits the car has.

topdaytrader

VSA/Traction control won't work unless your foot is on the gas.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

VSA saved me numerous times and I love it in the snow.

Just wait till u overssteer or understeer or until your rear tire catches some gravel when your exiting a ramp like what happen to me. VSA corrected the car and saved my ass.

I'd much rather have VSA than not have it.

Zapata

You have some questions to answer..................................

hotelniko14

how did we ever drive without VSA in the past????

EricL

It backs off the timing and for some strange reason will blink again (on some occasions) after traction has been established and around 4K (The light appears to go away for part of 1st gear, then makes a brief come back.). I don’t get wild spins with the system off (Toyos?), but the smaller burns seem well controlled with a couple of brake clamps and the timing being backed off (don’t want to cook the rotors).

In this case of a power start, off the line, it is killing about 0.2-0.3 seconds to 60 from retarding the timing (old data taken a long time ago with no headers).

It is awfully nice to have in 99% of the situations when you want to stomp on the gas and not have a big chirp on some blacktop or paint strip (Exhibition of speed ticket. No thanks).

I called the Acura Care people over a year ago and asked about a "funny" situation I had one day in a couple of turns (hairpins) up in the canyons. I was going uphill and there were 2" sandstone rocks on the road. The VSA light came on AND the VSA activated its own throttle plate to cut (strangle/choke) the air going into the engine. The car was headed uphill, and perceived the sudden spike -- and loss of traction -- on the front as a "problem" and just dumped the power. I called Acura Care up and asked about this and ended up talking to a higher-level engineer. After telling me to just turn it off, I was also told that people in snow (back east), were turning OFF the VSA to go up driveways. There were certain situations where the disabling of the VSA/TCS actually helped people get up some steep and icy driveways (this is what I was told). The engineer told me that the people who had been given this advice, were finally able to get up their driveways.

IMO, it can help even if you know what your doing.