UniChip Possibilities
10-10-2003, 06:14 PM
#41
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Originally posted by blxmjx
you might want to do a search on the subaru forums about the Unichip. They really aren't the best solution IMO. check out nasioc.com and do a search on unichip problems. I personally had one on my wrx, I had it tuned also. It never ran perfectly. There was stumbling and hesitation at particular throttle points. Why not take a look at the Greddy emanage.
you might want to do a search on the subaru forums about the Unichip. They really aren't the best solution IMO. check out nasioc.com and do a search on unichip problems. I personally had one on my wrx, I had it tuned also. It never ran perfectly. There was stumbling and hesitation at particular throttle points. Why not take a look at the Greddy emanage.
Basic functions will allow the user to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle(± 20% at 5 preset RPM points), by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals. For VTEC cars you can adjust the VTEC shift point
Furthermore, the e-Manage does not allow for ignition timing adjustments; it is fuel only.
However, thanks for the insight on the matter. I wonder if the fact that the WRX has forced induction from the factory and hence a completely different map might have some insight as to why it wasn't too successful on that application. From what I have read so far it has enjoyed some success in racing, etc. And since it is the only game in town for the CL-S we might as well see what it can do for us.
10-10-2003, 06:24 PM
#42
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Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
Also, they did perfer manual, but I don't recall seeing any around our area that is on this board that has one.. except for Kalin.. who is in CA now..
But he thinks auto should work just fine, just easier if it was manual.
Also, they did perfer manual, but I don't recall seeing any around our area that is on this board that has one.. except for Kalin.. who is in CA now..
But he thinks auto should work just fine, just easier if it was manual.
10-10-2003, 06:28 PM
#43
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Originally posted by ModAddict
I think the auto will be the best choice to start with.
I think the auto will be the best choice to start with.
10-10-2003, 06:29 PM
#44
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by Smitty
Yeah do report back since Mattg and Zapata will need dyno numbers before they spend some money..
Yeah do report back since Mattg and Zapata will need dyno numbers before they spend some money..
wow how'd i get sucked into this?
proof is in the pudding!
10-10-2003, 06:39 PM
#45
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Originally posted by scalbert
The e-Manage is nothing more than the VAFC as it intercepts input signals and alters them:
Those of us with the SC can't alter the MAP signal for fuel adjustments as the ESM would negate and changes.
Furthermore, the e-Manage does not allow for ignition timing adjustments; it is fuel only.
However, thanks for the insight on the matter. I wonder if the fact that the WRX has forced induction from the factory and hence a completely different map might have some insight as to why it wasn't too successful on that application. From what I have read so far it has enjoyed some success in racing, etc. And since it is the only game in town for the CL-S we might as well see what it can do for us.
The e-Manage is nothing more than the VAFC as it intercepts input signals and alters them:
Those of us with the SC can't alter the MAP signal for fuel adjustments as the ESM would negate and changes.
Furthermore, the e-Manage does not allow for ignition timing adjustments; it is fuel only.
However, thanks for the insight on the matter. I wonder if the fact that the WRX has forced induction from the factory and hence a completely different map might have some insight as to why it wasn't too successful on that application. From what I have read so far it has enjoyed some success in racing, etc. And since it is the only game in town for the CL-S we might as well see what it can do for us.
In its most basic form it is similar to a vafc. But there are additional harnesses available for fuel and ignition control.
10-10-2003, 06:46 PM
#46
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Originally posted by scalbert
Well, it makes sense, start out slow and move on to the faster crowd second. :P
Well, it makes sense, start out slow and move on to the faster crowd second. :P
10-10-2003, 07:05 PM
#47
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Originally posted by blxmjx
I don't think you fully understand the full capabilities of the emanage. Please read the emanage faq's, then you can comment further.http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/EmanageFAQ.htm
In its most basic form it is similar to a vafc. But there are additional harnesses available for fuel and ignition control.
I don't think you fully understand the full capabilities of the emanage. Please read the emanage faq's, then you can comment further.http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/EmanageFAQ.htm
In its most basic form it is similar to a vafc. But there are additional harnesses available for fuel and ignition control.
I'll probably call Monday to discuss this with them. Thanks again...
10-11-2003, 05:49 AM
#53
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BTW, I am really intrigued now about the Greddy e-Manage if this doesn't pan out with the UniChip. I have got to get more details about both but it appears that they can accomplish about the same thing. I just want to find out the methods employed.
The one thing I see advantageous about the UniChip is the larger map available. This would provide more precise tuning over the entire range. But it may not be necessary.
I’ll be in contact with both to gather the details on Monday.
The one thing I see advantageous about the UniChip is the larger map available. This would provide more precise tuning over the entire range. But it may not be necessary.
I’ll be in contact with both to gather the details on Monday.
10-11-2003, 06:50 AM
#54
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Originally posted by scalbert
Shouldn't cost more than $5k, more than the price of a stand alone DFI with expert tuning.
Shouldn't cost more than $5k, more than the price of a stand alone DFI with expert tuning.
10-11-2003, 08:32 AM
#55
Revving at 9K...
Originally posted by scalbert
BTW, I am really intrigued now about the Greddy e-Manage if this doesn't pan out with the UniChip. I have got to get more details about both but it appears that they can accomplish about the same thing. I just want to find out the methods employed.
The one thing I see advantageous about the UniChip is the larger map available. This would provide more precise tuning over the entire range. But it may not be necessary.
I’ll be in contact with both to gather the details on Monday.
BTW, I am really intrigued now about the Greddy e-Manage if this doesn't pan out with the UniChip. I have got to get more details about both but it appears that they can accomplish about the same thing. I just want to find out the methods employed.
The one thing I see advantageous about the UniChip is the larger map available. This would provide more precise tuning over the entire range. But it may not be necessary.
I’ll be in contact with both to gather the details on Monday.
The E-Manage does seem very interesting also.
I love having options!!
10-11-2003, 08:52 AM
#56
Revving at 9K...
So here is the plan:
1. I take my car to their shop on 10.20.2003, and they will keep my car for about a week to collect all of the data they need to come up with a map for the CLS with Headers.
2. When I get my car back, they will have a prototype chip hardwired to my ECU for me to test drive around town. So they get collect more data on how the car is reacting to their mod.
3. I would bring my car back into their shop so they can try out new maps to collect more data. I would continue to do so until they are happy with the chip.
4. Once the map is finalized, they would provide the dyno data to the forum, so we can see the actual % gain from their Chip.
5. At this point, if the gains (hp to dollor ratio) is worth it, and we will have some kind GroupBuy, and depending on the turn out, it could mean a better price.
Again, they are very nice and willing to work this out for us. I think we are for sure on the right track with them, because they are willing to invest the R&D (no money up front needed) to come up with a map and plug and play harness for our cars, and also show proof before we need to commit on buying this unit.
1. I take my car to their shop on 10.20.2003, and they will keep my car for about a week to collect all of the data they need to come up with a map for the CLS with Headers.
2. When I get my car back, they will have a prototype chip hardwired to my ECU for me to test drive around town. So they get collect more data on how the car is reacting to their mod.
3. I would bring my car back into their shop so they can try out new maps to collect more data. I would continue to do so until they are happy with the chip.
4. Once the map is finalized, they would provide the dyno data to the forum, so we can see the actual % gain from their Chip.
5. At this point, if the gains (hp to dollor ratio) is worth it, and we will have some kind GroupBuy, and depending on the turn out, it could mean a better price.
Again, they are very nice and willing to work this out for us. I think we are for sure on the right track with them, because they are willing to invest the R&D (no money up front needed) to come up with a map and plug and play harness for our cars, and also show proof before we need to commit on buying this unit.
10-11-2003, 09:12 AM
#57
Bagged hybrid
That sounds awesome! Great job dude
Now for the second option just in case: the e-manage w/ ignition & injector harness + software runs about $450, but I think I may be able to get a discount.
EDIT: $415 is the lowest I can find it.
Now for the second option just in case: the e-manage w/ ignition & injector harness + software runs about $450, but I think I may be able to get a discount.
EDIT: $415 is the lowest I can find it.
10-11-2003, 05:14 PM
#59
Senior Moderator
sounds good Brian. hopefully if this all works out they can dyno my car too.
i have a feeling that one way or another we will have a chip soon.
i have a feeling that one way or another we will have a chip soon.
10-11-2003, 05:19 PM
#60
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The difficulty here will be to have set programs based on the needs.
Upon consideration for this we need to determine popular configurations which will allow for true plug-n-play operations.
After my discussion with Brian we both agree that a stock tuning map is worthless. In other words, who wants the UniChip and not already have and Intake and Headers? So the first map should be for those vehicles with headers and intake. This will consist of the largest market segment.
IMO, the next map should be for the supercharged owners. I am unsure if non-intercooled and intercooled maps will be needed but I suspect they will; particularly when it comes to the ignition timing. This we will need to work with them on as the market is more limited.
But regardless, custom tuning is not something which should be attempted unless absolutely nessesary.
Upon consideration for this we need to determine popular configurations which will allow for true plug-n-play operations.
After my discussion with Brian we both agree that a stock tuning map is worthless. In other words, who wants the UniChip and not already have and Intake and Headers? So the first map should be for those vehicles with headers and intake. This will consist of the largest market segment.
IMO, the next map should be for the supercharged owners. I am unsure if non-intercooled and intercooled maps will be needed but I suspect they will; particularly when it comes to the ignition timing. This we will need to work with them on as the market is more limited.
But regardless, custom tuning is not something which should be attempted unless absolutely nessesary.
10-11-2003, 05:47 PM
#61
Senior Moderator
i guess they really wanted to start w/ a stock car. but like you just said, who's gonna buy the chip before intake and headers? not likely.
10-11-2003, 06:29 PM
#63
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Originally posted by scalbert
But regardless, custom tuning is not something which should be attempted unless absolutely nessesary.
But regardless, custom tuning is not something which should be attempted unless absolutely nessesary.
10-11-2003, 06:34 PM
#64
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Originally posted by ModAddict
You better know what you're doing to try this at home, but Steve, you might just be the one who does! I'll send you my wideband if you need it.
You better know what you're doing to try this at home, but Steve, you might just be the one who does! I'll send you my wideband if you need it.
But I'll just go to the dyno and get on the roller to be sure.
BTW, there was a good article in the recent Turbo about the need for proper tuning. On an MR2 Turbo they went from 168 WHP to 188 WHP with just altering the HKS electronics they had installed. That is a 10% improvement that would not have been realized if not for the proper tuning equipment; in this case a good wide band A/F monitor at the dyno.
10-11-2003, 06:55 PM
#65
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I took my son's blown Si over to Payne Tech last week, to see if the other tuner left anything on the table when he re-mapped with Hondata. They picked up another 5-10% across the board. This is the third time the Si was re-mapped.
The 02 SS I had done with LS1-Edit with only bolt-ons and picked up 10-20 hp across the board. They had done hundreds of these before, and were involved in the beta testing for the program with the manufacturer.
My wideband is more of an a/f ratio gauge for me. I'll leave the tuning to the experts!
The 02 SS I had done with LS1-Edit with only bolt-ons and picked up 10-20 hp across the board. They had done hundreds of these before, and were involved in the beta testing for the program with the manufacturer.
My wideband is more of an a/f ratio gauge for me. I'll leave the tuning to the experts!
10-13-2003, 05:27 AM
#67
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Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
So here is the plan:
1. I take my car to their shop on 10.20.2003, and they will keep my car for about a week to collect all of the data they need to come up with a map for the CLS with Headers.
2. When I get my car back, they will have a prototype chip hardwired to my ECU for me to test drive around town. So they get collect more data on how the car is reacting to their mod.
3. I would bring my car back into their shop so they can try out new maps to collect more data. I would continue to do so until they are happy with the chip.
4. Once the map is finalized, they would provide the dyno data to the forum, so we can see the actual % gain from their Chip.
5. At this point, if the gains (hp to dollor ratio) is worth it, and we will have some kind GroupBuy, and depending on the turn out, it could mean a better price.
Again, they are very nice and willing to work this out for us. I think we are for sure on the right track with them, because they are willing to invest the R&D (no money up front needed) to come up with a map and plug and play harness for our cars, and also show proof before we need to commit on buying this unit.
So here is the plan:
1. I take my car to their shop on 10.20.2003, and they will keep my car for about a week to collect all of the data they need to come up with a map for the CLS with Headers.
2. When I get my car back, they will have a prototype chip hardwired to my ECU for me to test drive around town. So they get collect more data on how the car is reacting to their mod.
3. I would bring my car back into their shop so they can try out new maps to collect more data. I would continue to do so until they are happy with the chip.
4. Once the map is finalized, they would provide the dyno data to the forum, so we can see the actual % gain from their Chip.
5. At this point, if the gains (hp to dollor ratio) is worth it, and we will have some kind GroupBuy, and depending on the turn out, it could mean a better price.
Again, they are very nice and willing to work this out for us. I think we are for sure on the right track with them, because they are willing to invest the R&D (no money up front needed) to come up with a map and plug and play harness for our cars, and also show proof before we need to commit on buying this unit.
10-13-2003, 05:35 AM
#68
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i wanted to thank 2001cls for donating his time and car to the effort.
what do you think the total eta for the entire project will be? i.e. the first chip installed.
what do you think the total eta for the entire project will be? i.e. the first chip installed.
10-13-2003, 07:28 AM
#70
Revving at 9K...
Originally posted by dets
i wanted to thank 2001cls for donating his time and car to the effort.
what do you think the total eta for the entire project will be? i.e. the first chip installed.
i wanted to thank 2001cls for donating his time and car to the effort.
what do you think the total eta for the entire project will be? i.e. the first chip installed.
10-13-2003, 07:41 AM
#71
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Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
From what I understand, it all depends on how soon they can solve the 5K RPM issue that our cars have. But judging from what they told me about other project life cycles, it will be at least 3 - 4 month.
From what I understand, it all depends on how soon they can solve the 5K RPM issue that our cars have. But judging from what they told me about other project life cycles, it will be at least 3 - 4 month.
10-14-2003, 04:01 AM
#72
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Just FYI, I may have received incorrect information in the past from one of the previous resellers, The Racers Group. I will confirm this later today when I talk to Tony at Dastek NA but it may not control the injectors directly.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
10-14-2003, 06:13 AM
#73
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http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~ecg/products.htm
The SMC was designed for 4 cylinders but the technology may be able to carry over to the 6 cylinders. They use it to control injectors instead of using Hondata.
The SMC was designed for 4 cylinders but the technology may be able to carry over to the 6 cylinders. They use it to control injectors instead of using Hondata.
10-14-2003, 06:38 AM
#74
Revving at 9K...
Originally posted by scalbert
Just FYI, I may have received incorrect information in the past from one of the previous resellers, The Racers Group. I will confirm this later today when I talk to Tony at Dastek NA but it may not control the injectors directly.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
Just FYI, I may have received incorrect information in the past from one of the previous resellers, The Racers Group. I will confirm this later today when I talk to Tony at Dastek NA but it may not control the injectors directly.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
10-14-2003, 06:40 AM
#75
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Originally posted by scalbert
Just FYI, I may have received incorrect information in the past from one of the previous resellers, The Racers Group. I will confirm this later today when I talk to Tony at Dastek NA but it may not control the injectors directly.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
Just FYI, I may have received incorrect information in the past from one of the previous resellers, The Racers Group. I will confirm this later today when I talk to Tony at Dastek NA but it may not control the injectors directly.
If so then it would still work great for the NA guys but us supercharger (or turbo) would be left out.
Which is why I am looking at the e-Manage more in depth. I have the manuals printed out and it can certainly do what we need. But I am researching it further to see what the potential problems might be.
10-14-2003, 06:43 AM
#76
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Originally posted by ModAddict
http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~ecg/products.htm
The SMC was designed for 4 cylinders but the technology may be able to carry over to the 6 cylinders. They use it to control injectors instead of using Hondata.
http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~ecg/products.htm
The SMC was designed for 4 cylinders but the technology may be able to carry over to the 6 cylinders. They use it to control injectors instead of using Hondata.
The e-Manage taps into the injector control wires and will keep the pulse on (extended the pulse width directly) as specified. In order to back off on fuel at places it will modify the MAP signal. It also intercepts all six ignition control signals to give +/- 20 degrees control from the factory tuning.
Both fuel and ignition control have 16x16 maps.
More on this later but I envision with either the Unichip or e-Manage that we will have specific programs for the J32A2 with intake and headers, both auto and 6-Speed. One for the SC with HBP, again for both auto and 6-Speed. And one for the intercooled SC for both the auto and 6-Speed. Of course all will be lug and play.
10-14-2003, 06:45 AM
#77
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Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
That's interesting.. When I spoke to them, they told me that one of the features is to allow people run bigger injectors. Plus, one of their biggest market is for FI cars, mainly TRD S/C kits.
That's interesting.. When I spoke to them, they told me that one of the features is to allow people run bigger injectors. Plus, one of their biggest market is for FI cars, mainly TRD S/C kits.
I will be talking with them soon and will confirm the information about their system.
10-14-2003, 06:53 AM
#78
Lead Footed
Originally posted by ZodiakTL
it's worth the wait! some of us waited for the SC for over 2 years, and it was worth the wait to finally get it. now if we can actually optimize the performance, what's another 3-4 month
it's worth the wait! some of us waited for the SC for over 2 years, and it was worth the wait to finally get it. now if we can actually optimize the performance, what's another 3-4 month
Then again, it could have been a Christmas present. :P
Ruf
10-14-2003, 07:27 AM
#79
Revving at 9K...
Originally posted by scalbert
You could run larger injectors. One reason why other applications would not be impacted is becasue they have a true air flow device in a MAF sensor. We use speed density where air flow is derived from the MAP and IAT readings.
I will be talking with them soon and will confirm the information about their system.
You could run larger injectors. One reason why other applications would not be impacted is becasue they have a true air flow device in a MAF sensor. We use speed density where air flow is derived from the MAP and IAT readings.
I will be talking with them soon and will confirm the information about their system.
Keep us posted.
10-14-2003, 10:17 AM
#80
Bagged hybrid
e-manage has also been used a lot with the Dodge SRT.
http://www.exhaustdepot.com/srt4/E.D.srt4dyno.JPG
http://www.exhaustdepot.com/srt4/E.D.srt4dyno.JPG