type s vtec = cl-p vtec?
07-20-2004, 03:25 PM
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type s vtec = cl-p vtec?
i got the car back from the body shop yesterday. the car didnt seem to handle as stiff as it would, and the vtec would kick in at 5500 rpm (cl-p version) instead of 4800. what i want to know is, could they have swapped out my ecu for a cl-p? just by looking at the ecu, how could i tell if it's for the type-s or just for the cl-p?
i'll take it for another spin.. to see if vtec repeats at 5500k.
i'll take it for another spin.. to see if vtec repeats at 5500k.
07-20-2004, 03:40 PM
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i suspect there's some code in the PROM that can be read-out with a diagnostic unit. i don't know if these cars are OBD-II or not. call the acura garage or the hotline and see if they can tell you if you can read a code in the ECU and determine what version it's for (cl-S or cl-P).
07-20-2004, 04:25 PM
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i started off in 2nd gear and the vtec kicked in at 5000k rpm in the three pulls. i'm guessing thats avg. i'll try calling acura to verify a way to determine a type-s ecu from a cl-p.
07-20-2004, 04:33 PM
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Here are the part numbers for 2003 if you can see a number from the outside
TYPE S
ECM Federal manual trans 37820PGEA12 $641.06
ECM Federal auto trans 37820PGEA61 $626.41
NON TYPE S
ECM Federal w/o Type S 37820PJEA61 $730.90
TYPE S
ECM Federal manual trans 37820PGEA12 $641.06
ECM Federal auto trans 37820PGEA61 $626.41
NON TYPE S
ECM Federal w/o Type S 37820PJEA61 $730.90
07-20-2004, 04:46 PM
#5
COME AT ME BRO!
i have a cl-s and my v tech hasnt ever kicked in untill around 5500rpm.. i have the aem cai and you can hear when vtec kicks in it roars like a beast
07-20-2004, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeCL
Here are the part numbers for 2003 if you can see a number from the outside
TYPE S
ECM Federal manual trans 37820PGEA12 $641.06
ECM Federal auto trans 37820PGEA61 $626.41
NON TYPE S
ECM Federal w/o Type S 37820PJEA61 $730.90
TYPE S
ECM Federal manual trans 37820PGEA12 $641.06
ECM Federal auto trans 37820PGEA61 $626.41
NON TYPE S
ECM Federal w/o Type S 37820PJEA61 $730.90
I have an '01 P but this thread might validate Jake's numbers: (too lazy to match them up for you!)
Invoices for recent '01 tranny swap including ECU
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07-20-2004, 05:37 PM
#8
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I would do like Pure Adrenaline said, but I have noticed that even with the AEM CAI, VTEC doesn't really start roaring until 5000-5500 RPM. Also howe long were you without your car ? You could just be re adjusting to it.
07-20-2004, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chopper
I would do like Pure Adrenaline said, but I have noticed that even with the AEM CAI, VTEC doesn't really start roaring until 5000-5500 RPM. Also howe long were you without your car ? You could just be re adjusting to it.
07-20-2004, 06:46 PM
#10
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^^ I know it is immediate, I was talking about where the sound was starting to become noticeable. I can hear it engage also. To clarify, the closer to redline you get, the louder it gets.
07-20-2004, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by blader
not sure what you mean when you say doesnt "start roaring" til between 5000 and 5500. When I had my AEM it was VERY DISTINCTIVE. At 4800 RPM I could practically hear the VTEC solenoid engage and the engine just screamed. There was no mistaking VTEC just engaged. Very loud. The way your describing it, its as if its a gradual engagement between those RPMs .......
And, I received the "upgraded" ECU when tranny #3 was installed.
07-20-2004, 08:11 PM
#13
COME AT ME BRO!
And, I received the "upgraded" ECU when tranny #3 was installed.[/QUOTE]
lol upgraded try down graded thats acuras way of tryin to keep the tranny from snapping...
lol upgraded try down graded thats acuras way of tryin to keep the tranny from snapping...
07-20-2004, 10:40 PM
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thanks guys. the vtec seems to kick in a 5000k rpm. i installed that "vtec light" from the tl.com forum. i doubt that bodyshop is shady, but who knows. 
i guess im just readjusting to the car. the steering wheel doesnt seem to be as stiff as it use to. i cant really take the turns now 
i guess im just readjusting to the car. the steering wheel doesnt seem to be as stiff as it use to. i cant really take the turns now
07-21-2004, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by etxxz
omg...get the V-afc, tune it and lower the vtec to 4000...you'll shave 1/2 on you're 0-60time with slight mods.
It has been proven that there is no power gain by lowering the engagement point. Even if there was the amount of time spent between 4000 RPM and 4800 RPM in a 0 – 60 run is not enough to warrant gaining a half second. You would need power increases beyond the traction capability of this vehicle to gain a half second just between 4k and 4.8k revs.
07-21-2004, 07:19 AM
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Now back to the real topic. Remember, the tachometer is not perfect and can be slightly off. The VTEC is fine and is occuring when it should for your model vehicle.
If the oil pressure is low you slam into a rev limiter at 5500 RPM.
If the oil pressure is low you slam into a rev limiter at 5500 RPM.
07-21-2004, 08:42 AM
#18
@ slide or die @
Originally Posted by scalbert
Please do not spread that bunch of crap here.
It has been proven that there is no power gain by lowering the engagement point. Even if there was the amount of time spent between 4000 RPM and 4800 RPM in a 0 – 60 run is not enough to warrant gaining a half second. You would need power increases beyond the traction capability of this vehicle to gain a half second just between 4k and 4.8k revs.
It has been proven that there is no power gain by lowering the engagement point. Even if there was the amount of time spent between 4000 RPM and 4800 RPM in a 0 – 60 run is not enough to warrant gaining a half second. You would need power increases beyond the traction capability of this vehicle to gain a half second just between 4k and 4.8k revs.
^^back to the real thread
07-21-2004, 08:43 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by etxxz
i might have exagerated...maibe not 1/2 a sec but aleast 1/4...vtec vtec will just give you much more power earlier and it does produce some extra hp when its proffesionally tuned...something to do with the air flow correction % setting it has, but i wouldnt know how it works.
^^back to the real thread
^^back to the real thread
07-21-2004, 08:55 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by scalbert
No, it still doesn't give a quarter second. Have you ever seen a dyno plot of the J32A2 with the VTEC engagement point altered??
Scalbert's right. the VFAC works great on alot of the vtec engines, mostly 4 cylinders. Not our V6. I've seen numbers in the past where it works great on the H22a prelude engine and the 94-97 accord 4cyl. Not the J32A2 or the J30Ai (accord v6, if I remember correctly)...
07-21-2004, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by momentum3.2
Scalbert's right. the VFAC works great on alot of the vtec engines, mostly 4 cylinders. Not our V6. I've seen numbers in the past where it works great on the H22a prelude engine and the 94-97 accord 4cyl. Not the J32A2 or the J30Ai (accord v6, if I remember correctly)...
My friends H22 prelude didnt reach VTEC til 5500 RPM and redlined at 7800. By lowering it with a VAFC to like 4500, adding an AEM intake, and an exhaust I think he was able to go from a 15.8 to a 15.1 in the quarter. Alot is to be gained on that DOHC H22 by lowering the engagement, but not on our motors.etxxz, spare us the drama and save your post count. You can't win this fight. Rest assure if scalbert decides to open his mouth about something, that he is well versed in the subject he's talking about.
07-21-2004, 03:27 PM
#23
Originally Posted by etxxz
omg...get the V-afc, tune it and lower the vtec to 4000...you'll shave 1/2 on you're 0-60time with slight mods.
Do you even know the basic principle behind the VTEC technology? I'm betting on that you don't, because you wouldn't have said what you said above.See, when the intake valves open to deliver air and the exhaust valves to dump the exhaust gas, they are working perfectly fine at a certain low RPM. However, as you bring the revs up, everything is now working much faster, and there's a tiny turbulence in the intake manifold. Why? Because the air that is sucked in through the intake is being delivered, but the intake valves, as they close, are bouncing the air back the way it came from. So when they open back up for the next lift, the air is going the other way, not into the valves. VTEC was created to compensate for this -- different valve timing for higher RPMs to reduce these effects, and effectively free up some lost horsepower and torque.
Now, if you lowered VTEC engagement point to 4000 or lower (I've seen some idiot do it as low as like 3000 RPM on a J30A1), you are actually now disturbing the air flow. That means lost horsepower.
People seem to think that VTEC is some sort of a turbo in a way. It's not. It's only there to make more efficient use of the air coming in by utilizing different valve timing at higher RPMs. Again, it is MEANT FOR higher RPM's. If you lowered the engagement point drastically, you're only hurting yourself.
I just my V-AFC II in yesterday, and the primary use of it in my car will be smoothing out the A/F ratio, and lowering the VTEC engagement piont about 200 RPM. Why? Because my car drops out of VTEC when it shifts into second. Of course, the final adjustments will be done by Dan at Godspeed while dyno-tuning. But people who buy the V-AFC II to lower the VTEC engagement point to like 4000 RPM is totally missing the point and wasting 300+ dollars.
07-21-2004, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
Do you even know the basic principle behind the VTEC technology? I'm betting on that you don't, because you wouldn't have said what you said above.See, when the intake valves open to deliver air and the exhaust valves to dump the exhaust gas, they are working perfectly fine at a certain low RPM. However, as you bring the revs up, everything is now working much faster, and there's a tiny turbulence in the intake manifold. Why? Because the air that is sucked in through the intake is being delivered, but the intake valves, as they close, are bouncing the air back the way it came from. So when they open back up for the next lift, the air is going the other way, not into the valves. VTEC was created to compensate for this -- different valve timing for higher RPMs to reduce these effects, and effectively free up some lost horsepower and torque.
Now, if you lowered VTEC engagement point to 4000 or lower (I've seen some idiot do it as low as like 3000 RPM on a J30A1), you are actually now disturbing the air flow. That means lost horsepower.
People seem to think that VTEC is some sort of a turbo in a way. It's not. It's only there to make more efficient use of the air coming in by utilizing different valve timing at higher RPMs. Again, it is MEANT FOR higher RPM's. If you lowered the engagement point drastically, you're only hurting yourself.
I just my V-AFC II in yesterday, and the primary use of it in my car will be smoothing out the A/F ratio, and lowering the VTEC engagement piont about 200 RPM. Why? Because my car drops out of VTEC when it shifts into second. Of course, the final adjustments will be done by Dan at Godspeed while dyno-tuning. But people who buy the V-AFC II to lower the VTEC engagement point to like 4000 RPM is totally missing the point and wasting 300+ dollars.
07-21-2004, 04:10 PM
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My Vtec seems to engage at 5k RPM, that when i hear it atleast. Ive noticed it kicking in there ever since i had my 15,000mile service. I got an 03 Cl-S and the reciept showed nothing about reflashing the ECU. Whats the best way to find out when vtec engages?
07-21-2004, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by philgates
My Vtec seems to engage at 5k RPM, that when i hear it atleast. Ive noticed it kicking in there ever since i had my 15,000mile service. I got an 03 Cl-S and the reciept showed nothing about reflashing the ECU. Whats the best way to find out when vtec engages?
ssshhh!!! listen wreawy wreawy closely!!!
07-21-2004, 04:24 PM
#28
@ slide or die @
yeah, 4000might be too low for a type-S, for the tl-p is DA place since when it shifts at redline it drops to 4100 or so. Mypoint was totally missed, it'll give a better times.
PureAD, i didnt know half the stuff you said but since you have one, you'd know ^^ is true. i got V-1
PureAD, i didnt know half the stuff you said but since you have one, you'd know ^^ is true. i got V-1
07-21-2004, 04:33 PM
#29
Originally Posted by etxxz
yeah, 4000might be too low for a type-S, for the tl-p is DA place since when it shifts at redline it drops to 4100 or so. Mypoint was totally missed, it'll give a better times.
PureAD, i didnt know half the stuff you said but since you have one, you'd know ^^ is true. i got V-1
PureAD, i didnt know half the stuff you said but since you have one, you'd know ^^ is true. i got V-1
Or Valentine-1? (which would be a totally irrelevent issue..)
07-21-2004, 04:38 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
What do you mean you have V-1? As in the AEM CAI previous generation to the V2?? Or Valentine-1? (which would be a totally irrelevent issue..)
Or Valentine-1? (which would be a totally irrelevent issue..)he has VTEC ALPHA!!! the rest of us are running beta versions...
you guys are killing me
07-21-2004, 07:01 PM
#34
Cajun Gumbo Man
Check your actuator ! Mine had to replaced twice. After they replaced the transmission, I didn't feel it ran the way it did when I bought the car. Another reason I dumped it, I know they DETUNED (ECU stuff) it !
07-22-2004, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by pimpscls
vtec hits around 4800-5000 for me? but wow does it sound amazing
oh and great explanation Pure Adrenaline
07-22-2004, 11:11 AM
#37
Originally Posted by blader
lol you guys keep giving RPMS that VTEC hits "between" .. it doesnt hit between it hits EXACTLY at 4800, everytime .. goes on and off like a light switch. this is when the solenoid activates. The engine may be spinning up so fast that it seems like it hits at like 5000 but its really engaging at 4800.
oh and great explanation Pure Adrenaline
oh and great explanation Pure Adrenaline
Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all day.
Also, mine always hits exactly at 4800 RPM. If I'm flooring the car, it may seem like it's kicking in at 5000 RPM, but it's 4800 RPM. It's just that the revs are coming up so quick under full throttle, by the time it engages, the tach is already at 5000.
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37820pgea12, 37820pgea1211, 37820pgea61, acura, cl, clp, ecu, engage, engagement, engine, j30ai, j32a2, type, vtec, when
