Thoughts on rwd...
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Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
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From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Thoughts on rwd...
ok, so we (or probalby more importantly, magazines) complained about the tranny, so they are (sounds likely, but still not 100% until it comes out) coming out with a manual.
we (magazines again) also complained about fwd...
so now we have 3 things pushing for rwd that acura hopefully can't avoid:
1) later iterations will probably have more power, considering the accord is getting 240hp+.
2) manual tranny; won't be able to put power to front wheels with more power.
and
3) everyone complaining.
and with the next rl supposedly being rwd (and also, IF honda thinks fwd is so great, then why is the s2000 and nsx rwd), then don't you see rwd in our future...if not, then awd, 'cuz i just can't imagine all these likely hypotheticals without going to rwd or awd.
thoughts?
we (magazines again) also complained about fwd...
so now we have 3 things pushing for rwd that acura hopefully can't avoid:
1) later iterations will probably have more power, considering the accord is getting 240hp+.
2) manual tranny; won't be able to put power to front wheels with more power.
and
3) everyone complaining.
and with the next rl supposedly being rwd (and also, IF honda thinks fwd is so great, then why is the s2000 and nsx rwd), then don't you see rwd in our future...if not, then awd, 'cuz i just can't imagine all these likely hypotheticals without going to rwd or awd.
thoughts?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,014
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From: Illinois, USA
Good question,
A company like Honda Motors, that has been producing FWD cars for the better part of their existence (and then, in more recent years been the producers of RWD autos .. NSX, S2000) doesn't just (and this is strictly my opinion) jump ship and start producing and marketing RWD autos just like that.. The TL/CL was clearly based off the Accord (some 40% of its parts are shared w/ the Accord), and moving to a more luxurious, quieter, more powerful adaptation of the "Accord" is easier for Honda to do ($$$-wise) than re-routing its fund-age into R&D, demographic studies and analysis to evaluate if a RWD sedan/coupe would sell, and sell well. Much of Acura's success has to have come from the fact that they are FWD, and near-luxury at the same time. Only other manufacturer to do that .. Lexus ES300, Infiniti w/ the G20 (wait, don't include this, did they sell ANY of these??) and the I30 of course, .. Audis.
For Acura to reneg and start including RWD's in their line-up .. this would imply a massive need from the general public for RWD, fuel-efficient autos --> no major need for those that isn't already met by BMW, MB... that's a much much tougher market to compete in .. RWD vs. RWD, I would imagine.
I think Acura could certainly develop a RWD, 260 hp, six-speed manual TL-S/CL-S and have it post times like 5.5 second and 13.X in the 1/4 mile .. AND have it cost no more than $35,000, but from a business point of view, that's a much great expenditure for them at THIS particular point as a corporation. Even Nissan .. they aren't doing anything super-dramatic by introducing a 3.5L .. 260 hp Max w/ a six-speed --> they're taking the heavily researched and proven Pathfinder engine, and mating it w/ a six-speed that probably was have engineered via their sister autos in Japan. beef up some other elements of the suspension, and the other drive-line components, and now you have a 260hp FWD beast.
Also, the "things pushing for RWD" are basically a handful of enthusiasts that would love to see Acura add a six-speed, and then add a RWD model... those enthusiasts include members of this board, and maybe hundreds, a few thousand others --> they need a HUGE sampling of their owners to want something like this in order to invest the $$$. It'll happen, but in a much longer time-frame, I think.
i think the next thing you may see, is the VTM-4 AWD system integrated into either the RL or the TL-S/CL-S .. up the HP on both models to say 300 hp (easily done by Acura w/ their renditions of the mods many people on this forum have added) and then add the 6-spd.. perhaps LIGHTEN the car, as in the integra (Type R) and procure and produce a competitor to the S4 --> that's more realistic than RWD I think.
Just my 0.02 .. I'd love to hear other opinions!
------------------
2002 Acura TL-S
White Diamond Pearl/Parchment
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A company like Honda Motors, that has been producing FWD cars for the better part of their existence (and then, in more recent years been the producers of RWD autos .. NSX, S2000) doesn't just (and this is strictly my opinion) jump ship and start producing and marketing RWD autos just like that.. The TL/CL was clearly based off the Accord (some 40% of its parts are shared w/ the Accord), and moving to a more luxurious, quieter, more powerful adaptation of the "Accord" is easier for Honda to do ($$$-wise) than re-routing its fund-age into R&D, demographic studies and analysis to evaluate if a RWD sedan/coupe would sell, and sell well. Much of Acura's success has to have come from the fact that they are FWD, and near-luxury at the same time. Only other manufacturer to do that .. Lexus ES300, Infiniti w/ the G20 (wait, don't include this, did they sell ANY of these??) and the I30 of course, .. Audis.
For Acura to reneg and start including RWD's in their line-up .. this would imply a massive need from the general public for RWD, fuel-efficient autos --> no major need for those that isn't already met by BMW, MB... that's a much much tougher market to compete in .. RWD vs. RWD, I would imagine.
I think Acura could certainly develop a RWD, 260 hp, six-speed manual TL-S/CL-S and have it post times like 5.5 second and 13.X in the 1/4 mile .. AND have it cost no more than $35,000, but from a business point of view, that's a much great expenditure for them at THIS particular point as a corporation. Even Nissan .. they aren't doing anything super-dramatic by introducing a 3.5L .. 260 hp Max w/ a six-speed --> they're taking the heavily researched and proven Pathfinder engine, and mating it w/ a six-speed that probably was have engineered via their sister autos in Japan. beef up some other elements of the suspension, and the other drive-line components, and now you have a 260hp FWD beast.
Also, the "things pushing for RWD" are basically a handful of enthusiasts that would love to see Acura add a six-speed, and then add a RWD model... those enthusiasts include members of this board, and maybe hundreds, a few thousand others --> they need a HUGE sampling of their owners to want something like this in order to invest the $$$. It'll happen, but in a much longer time-frame, I think.
i think the next thing you may see, is the VTM-4 AWD system integrated into either the RL or the TL-S/CL-S .. up the HP on both models to say 300 hp (easily done by Acura w/ their renditions of the mods many people on this forum have added) and then add the 6-spd.. perhaps LIGHTEN the car, as in the integra (Type R) and procure and produce a competitor to the S4 --> that's more realistic than RWD I think.
Just my 0.02 .. I'd love to hear other opinions!
------------------
2002 Acura TL-S
White Diamond Pearl/Parchment
Bone Stock
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1629963&a=12459969&f=0
" TARGET=_blank>Click Here for Pics!
</A>
Ambidextrous Masturbator
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Orange County, CA
I guess that about sums it up! 
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SidVicious
2001 CL Type S w/ NAV in Silver | Wheel Locks | Front Plate (Mounted in the Trunk) | Mobil 1 | Polarg M6 | K&N Filter (Mounted in the Trunk til the old one wears out)
1992 Ford Ranger XLT in Silver | F-150 Springs | 3" Body Lift | K&N Filter | Flowmaster Exhaust
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SidVicious
2001 CL Type S w/ NAV in Silver | Wheel Locks | Front Plate (Mounted in the Trunk) | Mobil 1 | Polarg M6 | K&N Filter (Mounted in the Trunk til the old one wears out)
1992 Ford Ranger XLT in Silver | F-150 Springs | 3" Body Lift | K&N Filter | Flowmaster Exhaust
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Concord, Califonia
i believe the words 'rice rocket' sums it all up...but i won't deny how dope a rwd acura would be...that i could actually afford. and why stop at rwd? just shoot straight into the world of awd. i don't just wanna roast em on the line next to mustangs n shit. i wanna launch on S4's and VR-4's. that would be phat. think about 310 hp awd in a comfey acura, eh?
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97 Black on Black 2.2L Beast.
limo tint all around
1 alpine 12 in the trunk powered by an mtx amp
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Thread Starter
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
But concerning that handful of enthusiasts...only a handful of enthusiasts pushed for a manual, and that's looking likely.
the only think i'm concerned about is acura going the way of caddy and saab w/ too much power and not enough traction, so people either complain more or don't even bother with manuals (as in caddy).
the only think i'm concerned about is acura going the way of caddy and saab w/ too much power and not enough traction, so people either complain more or don't even bother with manuals (as in caddy).
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Phoenix, AZ
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
But concerning that handful of enthusiasts...only a handful of enthusiasts pushed for a manual, and that's looking likely.
</font>
But concerning that handful of enthusiasts...only a handful of enthusiasts pushed for a manual, and that's looking likely.
</font>
And another point is that, while somewhat expensive, developing a manual tranny for an existing platform is FAR FAR FAR cheaper than developing an entirely new RWD platform. Honda's used the excuse that the end doesn't justify the means, but that excuse is getting old. And it frankly wasn't a very good one to begin with. But it IS a good excuse for not going RWD. I think AWD is much more likely than RWD as they can use what they've learned with the MDX. Plus, it would appeal to a MUCH greater market. There's just a lot of places in this country where a RWD vehicle isn't very practical. RWD's popularity is limited to enthusiasts, whereas a manual transmissions are not, IMHO.
[This message has been edited by GoldTypeS (edited 05-18-2001).]
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
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From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TL_Type_S:
Good question,
i think the next thing you may see, is the VTM-4 AWD system integrated into either the RL or the TL-S/CL-S .. up the HP on both models to say 300 hp (easily done by Acura w/ their renditions of the mods many people on this forum have added) and then add the 6-spd.. perhaps LIGHTEN the car, as in the integra (Type R) and procure and produce a competitor to the S4 --> that's more realistic than RWD I think.
Just my 0.02 .. I'd love to hear other opinions!
</font>
Good question,
i think the next thing you may see, is the VTM-4 AWD system integrated into either the RL or the TL-S/CL-S .. up the HP on both models to say 300 hp (easily done by Acura w/ their renditions of the mods many people on this forum have added) and then add the 6-spd.. perhaps LIGHTEN the car, as in the integra (Type R) and procure and produce a competitor to the S4 --> that's more realistic than RWD I think.
Just my 0.02 .. I'd love to hear other opinions!
</font>
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Gabriel
CL Type S
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Thread Starter
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
the platform thing is getting old...they ahve to design new platforms, they can't just use the same one over and over and over for each generation...but that's the perfect time to switch to wither rwd or awd.
the tl/cl isn't going anywhere until it leaves the accord platform...there's only so many things that you can change to make it more upscale, but eventually they're gonna have to differentiate it to a point where they'll require at least a separate platform for the tl/cl.
the tl/cl isn't going anywhere until it leaves the accord platform...there's only so many things that you can change to make it more upscale, but eventually they're gonna have to differentiate it to a point where they'll require at least a separate platform for the tl/cl.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Orange County CA
If the CL/TL splits from the Accord platform, get ready for a big price bump. Price is one of the things that makes the CL/TL so attractive against BMW. They'd be going head to head without the price advantage. That's a tough position to be in. How many people in here would have bought a 330 if it was the same price, equally equipped as the CL-S?
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,325
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From: Phoenix, AZ
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
the platform thing is getting old...they ahve to design new platforms, they can't just use the same one over and over and over for each generation...but that's the perfect time to switch to wither rwd or awd.
the tl/cl isn't going anywhere until it leaves the accord platform...there's only so many things that you can change to make it more upscale, but eventually they're gonna have to differentiate it to a point where they'll require at least a separate platform for the tl/cl.</font>
the platform thing is getting old...they ahve to design new platforms, they can't just use the same one over and over and over for each generation...but that's the perfect time to switch to wither rwd or awd.
the tl/cl isn't going anywhere until it leaves the accord platform...there's only so many things that you can change to make it more upscale, but eventually they're gonna have to differentiate it to a point where they'll require at least a separate platform for the tl/cl.</font>
I agree with mdaniel.... if they end up getting away from the Accord we're going to see a BIG jump in price for just a LITTLE more refinement. I can handle trolls tellin' me my car is "just an Accord" and I'll keep the $10K I saved over a BMW. Platform engineering just make sense, IMHO
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,014
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From: Illinois, USA
The concept of "global" platforms, and I totally agree w/ what everyone is discussing, is what makes an auto-maker smile -- it's just money in their wallet. The ES300, the I30, the TL/CL, and now, the Lincoln LS and the Jag --> I agree the chassis is one of largest parts of developing a new auto, and launching a new platform is subsequent to decreasing sales from TL/CL line-up indicating the aging variant of the cars' design.
------------------
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Banned
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From: Somewhere between here and there, yet neither.
Oreo,
You coming to the meet on the 10th??? I missed you at Sears on Wednesday...shoulda went..
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I think I need a Level 10 Torque Converter!!
You coming to the meet on the 10th??? I missed you at Sears on Wednesday...shoulda went..
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oreo:
i believe the words 'rice rocket' sums it all up...but i won't deny how dope a rwd acura would be...that i could actually afford. and why stop at rwd? just shoot straight into the world of awd. i don't just wanna roast em on the line next to mustangs n shit. i wanna launch on S4's and VR-4's. that would be phat. think about 310 hp awd in a comfey acura, eh?
</font>
i believe the words 'rice rocket' sums it all up...but i won't deny how dope a rwd acura would be...that i could actually afford. and why stop at rwd? just shoot straight into the world of awd. i don't just wanna roast em on the line next to mustangs n shit. i wanna launch on S4's and VR-4's. that would be phat. think about 310 hp awd in a comfey acura, eh?
</font>
------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
14.698 @95.977mph....Sears Point Raceway.
I think I need a Level 10 Torque Converter!!
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