Thinking about an airbag suspension
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,396
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From: PA
Thinking about an airbag suspension
After some careful thought i have decided to keep my car. I originally leased my CLS without any plans of modding it. It turns out to be the complete opposite. So now i am seriously considering an airbag suspension. Has anyone else tried this? Would it work? Any problems i might have? thanks
Marc
Marc
Honkey
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,728
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
If you insist on using air 
then I would use air cylinder rather than bags. Unless you plan to do a lot of cutting, bags will probably rub and blow over time. There are some bag kits that don't rub, but you won't sit low at all. DON'T get AIM, Chassis Tech, Ricky Racer, of EAI air cylinders. If you really are interested give me an email at cowcarcass@aol.com and I can give you all the pros and cons. Good luck.
-Aaron
then I would use air cylinder rather than bags. Unless you plan to do a lot of cutting, bags will probably rub and blow over time. There are some bag kits that don't rub, but you won't sit low at all. DON'T get AIM, Chassis Tech, Ricky Racer, of EAI air cylinders. If you really are interested give me an email at cowcarcass@aol.com and I can give you all the pros and cons. Good luck.-Aaron
on bin laden
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,696
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From: Bloomington, MN
agreed. aaron was able to help me put my suspension on. of course i went performance oriented, but i think his specialty is what you're looking for ... hmm .. anybody got pics of his old accord ??? 
Honkey
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 0
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Okay, I'll start by saying that hydraulics are infinately superior to any air setup, but that's just an opinion 
Typical Honda/Acura airbag setup:
-Air Bags Kits about $800 a set. (JUST the bag setup)
-Air Cylinder ($125 each, you need 4)
All the pictures I'm giving you are for REFERENCE ONLY. I don't recommend using any of these products. The products I'd use don't have webpages...but these pictures will give you an idea what the stuff looks like.
Here's a webpage with a whole bunch of stuff:
http://www.the-hack-shack.com/produc...ride/index.htm
(
Here is a picture of a bag setup and an air cylinder setup for a 2000 Accord, which will more than likely fit our car. Actually, the one pictured is for something else...but you'll get the idea. The silver things with the red tops are air cylinder and the things with the black rubber bags in the middle are shocks equipt with an airbag around them. These particular ones are garbage, I'll explain why.
-Airbags are a heck of a lot wider (in diameter) than the factory honda coil. To get them to fit well without rubber they have to me mounted up high. The problem with mounting them up so high is the car will have such a long shock/aibag setup that it doesn't go that low when aired out all the way. My guess is that with the bags pictured you'd be able to tuck a little bit of tire in the front, and maybe a little rim in the back. To some people, that is low...in my opinion, unless the car's laying on the ground, it's not low enough.
-Air Cylinders are actually pretty cool. They're not as wide as a bag, so they can be mounted lower, allowing the car to sit pretty low. With an 18 or 19" rim aircylinder would let you sit as low as our car's would go without any cutting. However, for those who aren't little girls, you can cut holes in to top of your wheel wells for the upper control arm to travel into the engine bag and sit a little lower. This is only necessary with 19's on our car. With 18's it'll almost lay flat without cutting. Air Cylinder ride pretty decent. I'd compare it to a car with neuspeeds and blown shocks. There are a few tricks you can do to get them to ride better. For example, you can run a 1/4 airline to the inlet, and 3/8 to the outlet. That difference it line size causes some pressure build up in the cylinder causing it to not ride bouncy. Like a charge that makes the cylinder want to stay where it's at and not oscilate. The problem I've seen with cylinders is they don't get a whole lot of lift, so you have to drive low all the time. The problem with driving low is you get some tire wear...but that's nothing a camber kit can't fix. Also, if you drive too high, you'll hear the cylinder top out, which is more annoying than anything. The air cylinders I showed the pic of have really thin sidewalls, and tend to rupture. When you mount the cylinder you have to make custom upper brackets to space it away from the body. If this isn't done the cylinder will hit the body when the car is locked up all the way, and eventually cause the cylinder to rupture. However, you can't space it out too much. If you space it out too much the upper control or spindle will hit it when the car's dumped, and that will also cause it to blow. It's really not too hard though....just make sure it's positioned well and make your own top bracket that's adjustable (similar to the camber plates for old mustang 5.0s). The back of the car is cake. You'll have no problems back there at all. It's sit really low in the back with aircylinders...probably tucking about an inch of rim with some 18s or 19s.
On top of the air cylinder (or airbag
) you'll need a few items.
-At least one compressor. 2 preferably. $85 each
-A tank for the air (NITROGEN SUCKS! But if you don't mind an UGLY missle looking tank in your trunk then go for it.) $33 each
-Some nice valves are nice ($500 for Front/Back/Side Side)
-A check valve, probably $25
-Air lines ($25)
-Misc fittings ($45)
And just think...after all this work you still won't be as cool as someone who's JUICED
Typical Honda/Acura airbag setup:
-Air Bags Kits about $800 a set. (JUST the bag setup)
-Air Cylinder ($125 each, you need 4)
All the pictures I'm giving you are for REFERENCE ONLY. I don't recommend using any of these products. The products I'd use don't have webpages...but these pictures will give you an idea what the stuff looks like.
Here's a webpage with a whole bunch of stuff:
http://www.the-hack-shack.com/produc...ride/index.htm
(
Here is a picture of a bag setup and an air cylinder setup for a 2000 Accord, which will more than likely fit our car. Actually, the one pictured is for something else...but you'll get the idea. The silver things with the red tops are air cylinder and the things with the black rubber bags in the middle are shocks equipt with an airbag around them. These particular ones are garbage, I'll explain why.
-Airbags are a heck of a lot wider (in diameter) than the factory honda coil. To get them to fit well without rubber they have to me mounted up high. The problem with mounting them up so high is the car will have such a long shock/aibag setup that it doesn't go that low when aired out all the way. My guess is that with the bags pictured you'd be able to tuck a little bit of tire in the front, and maybe a little rim in the back. To some people, that is low...in my opinion, unless the car's laying on the ground, it's not low enough.
-Air Cylinders are actually pretty cool. They're not as wide as a bag, so they can be mounted lower, allowing the car to sit pretty low. With an 18 or 19" rim aircylinder would let you sit as low as our car's would go without any cutting. However, for those who aren't little girls, you can cut holes in to top of your wheel wells for the upper control arm to travel into the engine bag and sit a little lower. This is only necessary with 19's on our car. With 18's it'll almost lay flat without cutting. Air Cylinder ride pretty decent. I'd compare it to a car with neuspeeds and blown shocks. There are a few tricks you can do to get them to ride better. For example, you can run a 1/4 airline to the inlet, and 3/8 to the outlet. That difference it line size causes some pressure build up in the cylinder causing it to not ride bouncy. Like a charge that makes the cylinder want to stay where it's at and not oscilate. The problem I've seen with cylinders is they don't get a whole lot of lift, so you have to drive low all the time. The problem with driving low is you get some tire wear...but that's nothing a camber kit can't fix. Also, if you drive too high, you'll hear the cylinder top out, which is more annoying than anything. The air cylinders I showed the pic of have really thin sidewalls, and tend to rupture. When you mount the cylinder you have to make custom upper brackets to space it away from the body. If this isn't done the cylinder will hit the body when the car is locked up all the way, and eventually cause the cylinder to rupture. However, you can't space it out too much. If you space it out too much the upper control or spindle will hit it when the car's dumped, and that will also cause it to blow. It's really not too hard though....just make sure it's positioned well and make your own top bracket that's adjustable (similar to the camber plates for old mustang 5.0s). The back of the car is cake. You'll have no problems back there at all. It's sit really low in the back with aircylinders...probably tucking about an inch of rim with some 18s or 19s.
On top of the air cylinder (or airbag
) you'll need a few items. -At least one compressor. 2 preferably. $85 each
-A tank for the air (NITROGEN SUCKS! But if you don't mind an UGLY missle looking tank in your trunk then go for it.) $33 each
-Some nice valves are nice ($500 for Front/Back/Side Side)
-A check valve, probably $25
-Air lines ($25)
-Misc fittings ($45)
And just think...after all this work you still won't be as cool as someone who's JUICED
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Honkey
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 0
From: Scottsdale, AZ
A local shop out here (Trevco) with a really good reputation put air cylinders in my friend's 99 Accord for $2700. Their labor rates are a little high, but their work is trustworthy. Here's how it looks...
My guess is our cars would sit at about the same heigth since our suspension in nearly identical.
Mr JRock, to get your car as low as mine you'd have to get hydraulics because the cylinders aren't as long as air cylinders. My front end it all cut and plated in four spots. One for the upper control arms to come into the engine bay, one in front of the strut tower for the tires to come into the engine bay, one behind the strut tower, and also there's a secondary unibody support that I had to C-notch. Everything was plated with 1/4" steel and I may do some tubular crossmembers down the road just to play it safe...but with all the cutting I did on mine, it only sits 1" lower than one with no cutting at all.
My guess is our cars would sit at about the same heigth since our suspension in nearly identical.
Mr JRock, to get your car as low as mine you'd have to get hydraulics because the cylinders aren't as long as air cylinders. My front end it all cut and plated in four spots. One for the upper control arms to come into the engine bay, one in front of the strut tower for the tires to come into the engine bay, one behind the strut tower, and also there's a secondary unibody support that I had to C-notch. Everything was plated with 1/4" steel and I may do some tubular crossmembers down the road just to play it safe...but with all the cutting I did on mine, it only sits 1" lower than one with no cutting at all.
Old timer
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1
From: .
Now when it's as low as it can go w/o cutting, you can't really make turns can you? Like, the wheels are too far up in the wells for them to turn, right?
Just curious.
I'd love to be able to drop mine as low as possible w/o cutting but be able to put it back to more conservative height when driving.
Just curious.
I'd love to be able to drop mine as low as possible w/o cutting but be able to put it back to more conservative height when driving.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Originally posted by 01blkCL-S
Please tell me what kind of rims those are.
I have been looking for those!!!!!
Please tell me what kind of rims those are.
I have been looking for those!!!!!
10th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: NEWYORK
AIR BAG CRAZYYY
CAN SOME ONE HELP ME OUT I REALLY WANNA PUT A "AIR" SYSTEM ON MY 98 3.0 CL I WANNA GET IT DONE PROFESSIONALLY BUT THE THING THAT SUCKS IS THAT I LIVE IN NY AROUND HERE I CANT FIND ANYPLACE THAT WOULD DO IT IM WILLIN 2 TRAVEL 2 PENNS OR JERSEY 2 GET IT DONE CAN SOME ONE PLEASE RECOMMEND A PLACE 4 ME 2 GET IT DONE.........................
I hand out swivel heads
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
From: Everywhere
airbag install
I am the other "aron" on the forum and "aaron" has been able to help me come to a conclusion on the air cans/bags and hydrolics issue. In Florida the air cans/bags are more popular and trusted than hydrolics, but those are just opinions, to me EVERYTHING that is a mod breaks eventually. So make sure you have a good warranty plan and good insurance that would cover any mishap.
As some of you may now I am currently building a body kit which is slated to be done 7/21/02 which is giving them more than enough time....as soon as that project is completed the car is being shipped up state to have air cans/bags installed. I have budgeted this at $3k , however, we are adding better brackets to house the equipment so it may run over a bit. i would suspect that if everything goes according to plan than the air cans/bags will be done by August 1st!!!!
As some of you may now I am currently building a body kit which is slated to be done 7/21/02 which is giving them more than enough time....as soon as that project is completed the car is being shipped up state to have air cans/bags installed. I have budgeted this at $3k , however, we are adding better brackets to house the equipment so it may run over a bit. i would suspect that if everything goes according to plan than the air cans/bags will be done by August 1st!!!!
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