GoldTypeS_RENAMED

I have a theory about our paint job. Many people say it's crap. I, however, have VERY VERY few chips and I'm at 24K miles. This is far and away the best paint job I've had on any car I've owned. But I should also point out this is the most expensive car I've owned. But I remember reading a long time ago about a yellow Ford Ranger truck. Remember the "Splash" version of the Ranger. They offered a bright yellow color and the paint guy at Ford said they had to apply the paint at twice the normal thickness to achieve that color. I'm wondering if the gold is similarly thick???

This probably also partially has to do with the traffic in your city and the state of the roads. The roads here in AZ are pretty smooth due to the lack of snow and ice. But my paint just isn't chippin'. How are the other golds holdin' up??

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: GoldTypeS ]

blazerbob1

Hey! That is an interesting theory though I question them painting multiple coats to achieve color. After 3 coats it isn't going to change appearance of color and it wouldn't be cost effective! Only with a custom paint job would you get more than 3 coats of paint! I noticed 2 small scratches on my front bumper and didn't even realize I was at fault while working on my car! :p

EricL

I made a comment about "our" paint one day (I've been lucky so far). He said, "You sure hear all of the people that come in here. The BMW and Mercedes people are complaining. I've got everybody complaining about chips and problems with the paint..."

He even went on to suggest that BMW might actually powder coat their cars at some point -- he said might. (he gets these detailing/trade magazines. that talk about detailing and auto PAINt trends, etc)

Just a misery loves company thought...

SatinCL

Paint 101 is in session:

1) Thicker is not better: Thick coats have more flex and therefore chip easier.
2) Fewer coats for same mil thickness is not better: less etching and therefore more prone to eliminate layers under compression. Also, see #1
3) Fewer bake stages reduce underlayer etching. Also, See #2
4) Anti-chip primer substantially reduces paint to primer etching/bond. There are pros and cons to this type of primer. More pros tho.

So, what's the problem with our paint? According to someone I know who does bodywork we have a culmination of #1-4. We have a 2 coat/1 bake process with an extemely hard anti-chip primer. The Dupont paint is of very high quality, but the cost savings of a 2 coat spray coupled with reduced times for a 1 bake process allows for a delicate bond.

Gold, I can't even try to reach for why you have no problems? I had my hood repainted.

Powder Coating is a very long process of polarity bonding. (usually negative charged particles with a positive surface). It is a longer, and much more expensive of a process. This is usually saved for exotic applications (such as Yacht railings) for depth, refraction, and of course durability. Powder coating is possibly the most durable process out there and i seriously doubt BMW would do this on volume models.

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: SatinCL ]

JetSet

I don't know what the problem is but I've driven my silver CL for 12 days (been to Ausitn and San Antonio in that time) and have 3 obvious paint chips on the hood. Its not like I off-road in the thing and it still looks like hell. It came from the dealer with a small paint imperfection on the hood as well...I've also removed my front plate on the recommendation from some of the houston guys: after five days of ownership, the plate holder had eaten about a three inch strip of paint. I don't mean to bitzch so much but this is such an awesome car, its a pity I'll have to get it repainted in a year or two.

pimp_RENAMED

Ive had my Gold Type-S since spring of 2000.
My wife drives it everyday, 15 mile trip each way on the highway, total miles 23k. I can count on on hand the total amount of chips throughout the entire vehicle. Maybe like 3 which I think is fantastic, considering the complaints people have here on the forums.
Maybe I was one of the lucky ones, I dunno. "shrug"

mrdeeno

i wonder if it has anything to do with changing the formula AFTER the first couple thousand were made.

I have a build date of 2/00 and about 11k miles...i don't drive it much, but when i do i drive it a lot and mostly highway miles, and the only chips i have are one or 2 on the front bumper.

i've experienced nothing that alot of you are complaining about.

soopa

Its completely possible that Gold had a different.... possibly more expensive paint process.

I'm pretty sure it is a FACT that the early White Diamond Pearl TL's had a better paint job then the other colors.

sundance_gold

Having owned a multitude of black cars in the past, I have to agree that this gold paint seems to be 'better'. I just waxed it last weekend and I, too, can cound on 1 hand the number of little chips I've seen on it. I've had the car since May 2000.

Bladerunner

I have a silver CL-S and the paint is still flawless after 4,000 miles. Knock on wood.....Overall I think the paint is nice compared to what I've seen on other cars. My buddy has a new black Mercedes CLK and has a lot of chips on his front end already, so who knows.

Deckard

jdl75

Having worked in Engineering at Marysville and East Liberty, I've seen first hand the R&D work done on our paint.

In the summer of 1997, Marysville installed brand new paint equipment on the A & B lines. this was in responce to the EPA reg that all car manufacturers in the US move to a water-based paint (water as a carrier instead of a petrochemical). This time was selected because the KA Accord was a brand new model, and the 1999 TL was soon to follow (location of 2000 CL manufacturing was not yet wide-spread knowledge, even in the new model group - it was in East Liberty at that point. I digress...).

The water based paint has a couple inherent problems. One, the carrier (water) evaporates much slower than the petrochemical carrier. The result is the dreaded orangepeel. Dirt also seemed to be aproblem early on, but was attributed to the new equipment.

Two, and you can ask PPG & Dow why, but the water-based paints are softer and not as tough. They are improving, but they are not as tough as the petro-based paint.

The Acura/honda paint process is among the best available in the US under the new technology. Not everyone has switched yet, but they must by 2003 (I think - it is coming up).

BTW, put a pearl white RL next to a pearl white TL. Which looks better? They both use the same brand paint, but the RL is from Japan, where petro paint is OK.

If you don't believe me, check your EPA regs before you tell me I'm full of shit.

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: jdl75 ]

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: jdl75 ]

EricL

You were saying something about BMW not using it...

CHECK THIS OUT:



CLEAR ADVANTAGE EMERGING WITH PPG’S BREAKTHROUGH POWDER COATING



John S. Ruch 1-412-434-2445


PITTSBURGH -- A breakthrough in automotive paint technology is responsible for the gleaming finishes of autos rolling off the BMW production line in Germany. The coating is environmentally benign, speeds production and improves finish quality.


The final finish on 5- and 7-Series models produced at the Dingolfing assembly plant is an Enviracryl coating -- the world’s first powder clear coat -- developed by Pittsburgh-based PPG Industries. R&D magazine has cited it as one of 1998’s most technologically significant new products.

Powder coatings were introduced in the auto industry during the 1980s, initially on components such as wheels and engine blocks; body primer applications began later.

But clear coat is a colorless finish applied to protect the auto’s color coating. Unlike conventional liquid coatings, PPG’s powder product is solvent-free, can be recycled and requires no chemicals for treating waste created during the spray process.

"Powder clear coat offers many advantages," says Ronald J. Isger, global manager of automotive powder technology at PPG’s Strongsville, Ohio, coatings facility. "BMW acknowledges that our Enviracryl powder clear coat is a premium product appropriate for its premium cars."

"There is a huge potential with powder," said Walter Wimmer, manager of BMW’s paint shop. "That is why we decided to go ahead with construction of powder clear coat lines at Dingolfing."

Isger adds that PPG is working with the Low Emission Paint Consortium, created by Chrysler Corp., Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., which is evaluating the environmental benefits of powder clear coats for North American automakers.

Powder clear coats exceed requirements of United States Environmental Protection Agency regulations and represent the most environment-compatible coatings technology available, according to Isger. Because over-spray can be recovered and reused, creating little or no waste, powder clear coats give automakers a cost-effective alternative to liquid clear coats, he adds, with no volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from application.

With solvent-based liquid clear coats, air circulated through the paint booth cannot be recycled back into the booth and requires an emission control system. Powder coatings require much less booth ventilation and permit up to 90 percent of the air volume to be recirculated. Because the powder application process is cleaner, booth maintenance is minimal and use of aggressive cleaning compounds is unnecessary.

Powder clear coat is spray-applied electrostatically to grounded car bodies. Isger says powder particles remain in an excited state within the electrical field, contributing to a consistent coating thickness free of drips, runs or sags that can occur with liquids, so rejection rates for finish quality are low. A combination of infrared and convection ovens melt the powder particles adhering to the car body, fusing them.

"Because of increasingly stringent environmental requirements, powder coatings are the fastest growing segment of the coatings industry," says Isger. "These products are environmentally friendly, but our goal for top coats, especially important to automotive customers, is to also match the finish quality of liquid coatings and exceed them in appearance and durability."

With more than 100 plants in 21 countries and annual sales of about $7.5 billion, PPG is the world’s largest producer of automotive and industrial coatings and a leading maker of fiber glass, flat glass and chemicals. About 45 percent of its business involves original equipment and repair products for the transportation industries

thholr

I dont think I have enough fingers and toes to count the paint chips on my hood alone. Sucky paint job. But the explaination makes sense. I guess zaino the hell out of it for now and then get it repainted in a while

EricL

Try piling a ton of coats of Zaino on the car -- it seems to help.

Sorry, didn't leave one half of the hood untreated..

Lance

I have to agree with the crappy paint job. Mine is black, and everything that has touched either the hood or trunk has left a permanent mark. The top and sides seem to be a little more tough.

Lance

jdl75

Yeah, it was. We had a hell of a time painting them (the Pearl White). That's why dealers had a limited allotment. A good portion of your car was painted by hand and baked at the factory.

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: jdl75 ]

SatinCL

I stand corrected about volume use of Powder Coatings by BMW. Thanks EricL for pointing that out.