nate'sCLS

Sounds to me that you were a fool to buy a car that you obviously would not enjoy in the first place. You seem to have a good understanding of the bimmer line, but why didn't you buy it in the first place. They are two totally different cars IMO. Did you forget to test drive and cross compare the two inclusively.

cakennedy

Oh, this thread is so good on so many levels...

1. Another convert to the 330ci! Someday you will all be driving one

2. Acura of Concord sucks. They couldn't fix anything on my lemon TL. Plus, they're horrible about loaners...I got Enterprise (of course) every time I took my TL there, and Enterprise twice charged me for gas, even though I always filled the loaner up.

3. Resale on BMWs is ultra-high, because demand for used bimmers is high. My car was $39k even out the door (I paid about $37.5), and I'm sure I could get $33 for it now, 20,000 miles later.

kHmER Co

how did this one person end up with so many misfortunes in one car

SilverKnight

I'll give you $40 even. Let me know

nate'sCLS

C'mon SilverKnight, you gotta offer the sap more than fourty bones. Don't forget the 3 series which you can find at least five of on any YUPPIE block is ultra-high, ultra-overdemanded, ultra-overdone!!!

tmk70

I think PP's problem is that it sounds like he's got a lot of the issues we've ALL had with the car, he just has a shitty dealer. I've had my share of rattles and squeaks, but I've had them all taken care of by my dealer...and they were all done right. Yes, it's annoying that our cars have some minor bugs, but that's to be expected in any new vehicle line.

PP, you have to find a better dealer, that's all. I have many friends with BMW's and they are nice cars, but when I tell them about the service I get from Acura, they are all JEALOUS of me. They tell me they get treated like sheep, given the runaround about time to repair, and ANALLY RAPED with costs. It's all about the dealer, my friend.

I think BMW's and Acuras are both spectacular cars, but different. For what you get, the CL/TL line is unbeatable for value. I just can't see spending another 10K on a comparably equipped BMW right now...especially a 3 series, which are a dime a dozen here in MA.

Don't hate on the CL, hate on your shitty dealer, dude!!!

....just my $.02 :sqnteek:

SiGGy

1997-5 years ago.
2 Dr M3 Coupe Invoice, Specs... $22,431 Orginal price 42k when priced with the goodies that CLS has standard.


dude that car is a few years old, and is prior to the redesign.

NICE COMPARISON!

Try a 2001 vs a 2001 since the 3 series had a redesign in 99 or 00, I don't remember... LOL


CLS is much worse than a 3 series. A TLS has good re-sale. YOU STOP smoking crack. And get real. You just are creating numbers that work with your thoughts/arguments...

man a 1997 which is 5 years old and has retained 50% of its value is better than the almost 50% I have lost on my CLS now at 2 years old! DUH! I was offered 21k after not even two years of owning my CLS! common....

But, GO compare a 01 to a 01...


anyhoo with your #'s

BMW
5=years; 22000=tradin 42000=purchasing cost
% = (22000/42000)/5
.09

the bimmer was losing 9% a year

this is bloated I havent owned my CLS for 2 years yet...
2=years; 21000=tradin 35000=purchasing cost
% = (21000/35000)/2
.3

my CLS is currently losing 30% a year

So WTF are you talking about!!! ... but that PROVES YOU WRONG,and the FACT you can't do math.... lets compare the 01's shall we?

an NO, I never said it was an investment. But if you spend the extra $ you get it back with the BMW. In fact you will turn out ahead in term of a % loss from the total ammount spent. So why spend the extra? because you get more in return in the long run.

simple depeciation calculation.... however we did not add for inflation over 5 years and initial loss... but it sums it up pretty good. Only off a small margin.

this is why smart rich people don't buy car outright most of the time... Like purchasing a new M3 for instance... Why take out $50k from investments making 15-20% return and then put it down on a car. When you can put down $10k and take a loan for $40k at 5.9%... still make money on the $40k over 5 years and essentially end up paying less for the car.

JerryL

SiGGy:
Thanks for backing up my prior statement about resale values. Again, the CL-S is a wonderful car. The 330Ci will be my 3rd car so I can get what I feel is best in MY situation. I like the rwd & I will not be driving it in the snow.
BTW the people on this board are very thin skinned. Maybe you guys should switch to decaf. Lighten up!

Jerry

sdho

My Fiance has had 2002 BMW 330I for only 3 months and It's in the Service for at least 3 weeks due to DSC light problems, same as our engine light. And the first few times, she was given Chevy Cavalier. Only after she bitched with BBB and BMW USA, she was given BMW loaner. She has taken a car in a total of 4 times with the same problems. We even got a lawyer involved to settle the issue with the problems. They agreed to give her a new 330i if she ever has the same problems.

Speaking of BMW services included in the Warranty. That's an oil change every 15K. So you come out to about 2 oil change for the life of your warranty. Once the warranty is up, there's a major service which can caused you about $800-$900.

If I were you, I would rather get a Lexus. That's just my .02c

DGM

Driven

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Persian Prince
[B]I am sick and tired of Acura and their f_ked up service!!!



BMW includes all service and maintenance in the price of their cars and that is a big reason they are more than Acura's but if you think about it it is worth it. You don't have to pay for oil changes and regular scheduled services, plus they give you a loaner right on the spot. They don't take you 4 blocks down the street to a rental office and hand you a cheesy Saturn. Every time I take my car in for service it takes me at least an hour to get in and out of that place. If Acura wants to be on the same level as the elite car manufactures then they need to step up their game and deliver.



Being a previous BMW owner myself, I'd like to point out that my experience with BMW service wasn't exactly great....
Sure, BMW gives you free scheduled maintenance, but have you looked at the schedules in their manual? At the time, my 99 328is wasn't scheduled for oil changes until every 10,000 miles. 10,000 miles! Of course they accomodate this schedule by putting synthetic oil in your car. But factoring in that the free scheduled maintenance is good only for the warranty period of your BMW, that amounts to what... 4 or 5 total oil changes? I'll let you figure out the $value of that service.
Then there's the loaner car that you talk about.... Not all BMW dealerships provide BMW loaners. My dealership sends you to their in-house Enterprise Rental Car where you get to choose between nice cars like Chevy malibus, Pontiac Grand-Ams and the like. Of course, if you would like something nicer, you could always pay extra.
And I'm only responding to the specific items you mentioned in your post.

Anyways, I guess my point is that not all dealerships are the same, even within the same brands. And I understand you've had a bad experience with your CL. Oh well. What can I say? I had a bad experience with my BMW. As for the treatment I'm getting from my local Acura dealership... not bad. Although Acura doesn't provide free scheduled maintenance...they might as well....I've been getting complimentary oil changes from them everytime I fill out their customer surveys that they send me after each visit. So far, my maintenance cost on my CLS has been outstandingly low compared to my previous BMW with the free maintenaince (which doesn't cover normal "repairs" $$)

shockboltthrower

asalatt

If I had the money I would've bought a BMW. My father and two brothers drive BMWs. For the money, BMW is the better car by far.

shockboltthrower

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Driven
[B]If there is anyone that know his shit about BMW's it's Drven...this dude has owned more BMWs in his short life than I'll ever own.

eclipse23

I don't think that's driven man. Besides, I like to talk to bmw owners who have owned their cars when they were new for the 'new car' perspective

Driven

Uh yeah, that's probably not me you're thinking of who's had all the bmw's. But I do want to make it clear that my 99 328is was a new car. I bought the CLS after I totaled the bimmer. I will say that the bmw is a very nice car to drive...but that's about it. Quality-wise and service is, IMO, worse than my CLS. I will also note that I owned an Integra before I traded it in for the BMW. The integra too also gave me a great ownership experience.

Zapata

Smart rich people! F' off What the hell are you trying to say?

No crap it's a few years old. If you read my post i said the 5 year old CLS would lose less on resale than an m3 would on resale, if both cars had the same mileage(12-15K/yer); Because you said that in the long run the BMW wouldn't loose as much money. Neither car had been redesigned at that point. If you want to ignore the numbers, then go right ahead.

The only reason why the current '01 CLS has such bad resale value is the '02-'03 models were released so closely together. the '03 will not loss as much money in the short run because the '04 won't be released immediately after like the '03 was released after the '02 was. In fact, if the CLS is discontinued the resale value will go up. You are moron if you don't account for that fact. Compare apples and apples.

Creating numbers. OK. I told you that got all my numbers from edmunds.com. I'm not fudging any numbers. Look them up if you like.

You can't prorate the current numbers 5 years ahead moron!!!!! because the value of the car is based on market that you can't predict. That's why i took cars from five years ago. In fact, you are prorating the BMW 5 years while only giving the 2 years at CLS the "current" market price. Who is fudging numbers? Moreover, you caculate percentage loss this way:

orignal priceX- resale priceY = dollar lossZ

Z/X=percentage loss


You said it. Re-read your post.


Total cost of ownership. That's what it boils down to. I'd much rather have to pay maintainence on a 5 year old CLS with 75k miles than a 5 year old M3 with 75k miles.

nate'sCLS

Ya, well I'm not too sure this is something to brag about. What happened to Bay Area prices is crazy and a lot of the residents are as well. We sold our condo down there and bought a new place in Sacramento that isn't the size of a postage stamp ...For Half. :P
BTW, most of the ballers and shot callers in the Benz's, Lexus’s, SUV's and BMW's <i> are fake</I> and the cars <i> are leased </I> and they live in an apartment that takes most of their paychecks.

eclipse23

Thanks for the wake up call Nate I was hoping you would see this thread

nate'sCLS

Ya, I don't know how I missed it before. I guess reading his posts got tiring pretty fast -- what a moron too talk that BS shizt huh!

moomaster_99

This whole debate boils down to
The Grass is always greener on the other side."
I mean truly if it is a dealership issue.....go to another dealership.

If it's cuz your car ain't baller enough for you...then get a BMW...cuz cost isn't an issue. Shit get a REAL BMW...buy an M3.

Or if quality is an issue...get a Lexus, not a BMW....no one compares with them in terms of reliability, resale, or durability.

If you want something that is larger...get a 5-series, GS, E-Class....or even an A6...

Figure out what you really want.....

SiGGy

So do you feel better when you swear? It definetly shows your maturity and age.


Did you notice the 330i 37k new, unloaded, is still worth $31k now and its a 01?

Which was the argument anyway...

Where's the better resale?

I'm not in disagreement of Acuras resale. But wake up and smell the horrbile depreciation man. The CLS is a $ bomb.

AND...

BUT IM NOT COMPARING OLD CARS!!!! DUH!!!

WE ARE COMPARING A CLS TO A 330 BMW!

not some OLDER acura! The comparson was the difference in purchasing the BMW to the CLS.

Which is why I said compare what we are talking about. NOT SOME BS YOU JUST WANT TO JIBBER/JABBER ABOUT.

.

01 CLS 35K NEW
01 BMW 330i 37K (not loaded)

now ...

330i 31,000 (with no options)
CLS 21,000

someone needs to beat you with the CLUE HAMMER. The CLS specifically has horrbile resale man. Deal with it.

And yes my equation was calculating % of difference over 5 years vs. two years. Granted I'll agree the 2/5 isnt fair but have to your car valued at 60% of its orignal value in 2 years isn't what one would consider good resale. 20% a year loss.

Only the 1st year should be real bad.

The old CL seems to be holding it's value well. But it was 10K less than the current CLS new.

And IM not fudging #'s your comparing 2 different cars.

Pls compare the 330i 01, with the 01 CLS. Which was the original argument. With enough digging I bet I can find another Acura with bad resale, and the same with BMW. but thats not what we were discussing. Which is why I compared them. (97 M3 vs 01 CLS)

peace

Zapata

Maturity. OK. Thanks. Can i have my allowance while you playing daddy ....up yours.....


330CI priced with the same options that the CLS comes with will cost you 40k. You need to run your numbers again.

Yes, the current CLS resale value sucks but it won't be this way for ever. In 5 years the CLS isn't going to be worth 7k. You really need to understand rates of depreciation....THEY ARE NOT LINEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not comparing old cars. You still attempt to argue that the M3 will cost one less in the long run over the CLS. I'm telling you that you are flat out wrong. To have a baseline for my position i went back 5 years based my caculations on the compariable '01 models from BMW and Acura. What don't you understand about that?

shockboltthrower

uh, boff? I thought ah had the right driven. But ah was confused!

SiGGy

no, I wasn't still arguing the CLS vs. the M3 (97's) I didn't bring those up, someone else did. I really don't know much about those vehicles to make and sense of their values. I was comparing a new 01 330 to a CLS 01.

And yes I agree that the CLS will probably one day stop losing value as fast as it is.

BUT WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING SOMETHING THAT NO ONE CAN PREDICT!

We are discussing real values.

Which I posted. Not speculation. And the prices of the 330 you are correct did reflect a value without Navigation.

This is not about what you speculate. The BMW right now has less depreciation than the CLS. By a good margin.

END OF STORY MANG!

Even another fellow posted on here he bought a pretty loaded 330i for $37k with premiumpackage , and stereo, and luxery package... Which is = or better than the CLS minus the Navi.

to go from $37k (navi holds its value pretty well, so add +$2K to both numbers here ) to $31 is not bad

to go from $35k to $21k is not very good.

I was just trying to hold discussion without flaming one another to death.... Which is why it sounded "fatherly"... this isn't about you and I. This is just about resale values

Zapata

siggy,
Whatever Let's end this discussion. We agree to disagree.

mantis23

I'm a postwhore.

1SICKLEX

3rd gen GS will not come out untill 2004 or 2005. Why? E-class must drop first here (should be this August).

Then 5 series will drop sometime next year.

Then the GS will drop a year after that.

96 new E-class
97 new 5
98 new GS

So go buy that GS!

Kkranghkar

What kind of complete moron posts that kind of shit-talk and spells "grammar" wrong? hahaha

tankmonkey

where are you getting $35k for a 2001 cl-s? they stickered at $30k...

Zapata

That is what i'm talking about...... He'll add tax on some cars and won't add on others. He'll prorate numbers for one car and then not another. Just let him live in ignorance.

Kkranghkar

Speaking of doing math, how does dividing trade-in value over cost give you loss? That's "retention". Try this math that actually works:

BMW
$ lost/year = ($42000 - $22000) / (5 years) = $4000/year
% lost/year = ($4000) / ($42000) = 9.52%

ACURA CLS (I HOPE TO GOD THIS IS NAVI)
$ lost/year = ($35000 - $21000) / (2 years) = $7000/year
% lost/year = ($7000) / ($35000) = 20%

Very nice, your quack math lowered BMW loss by 5%, and increased ACURA loss by a whopping 50%! Now let's try the ACURA math using REAL values, not ones pulled out of your ass (dealer offered me $22,500 trade-in one week ago, and I bought it for slightly over $28k).

ACURA CLS (MY REAL QUOTED VALUES)
$ lost/year = ($28130 - $22500) / 2 years = $2815/year
% lost/year = $2815 / ($28130) = 10.0%

So rock on with the BMW's superiority.

Kkranghkar

Doh, looks like Zapata already beat me to it. Amen, brother.

tankmonkey

I think you'd also have to take into account the extended run of the 2001 model year - the 2001 was introduced in march(?) of 2000 and wasn't replaced by the 2002 until august/september 2001. that's like an 18-19 month run.

in effect, that gives the 2001 cl-s an extra 6-7 months to depreciate over the 2001 330ci.

it seems just as valid to compare the 2001 cl-s to the 2000 328ci in terms of resale...

Maximized

Honestly I dont think people that buy a 330i or any higher end luxury car really factor in resale value in their purchase. Its kinda like buying a 996 Turbo and worrying about MPG or insurance rates.

moomaster_99

nate'sCLS

OUCH... TOO FUNNY !!

acura_service

1) tear is not acura's fault, its damage
2) fuel door lid is a minor (bending tab) adjustment, mine did the same thing, i fixed it myself
3) 3 times: it should have been fixed - i agree
4) strange, haven't heard much about that
5) leather, or metal to metal?
6) normal, does not have the 80's zip like the old cars
7) needs to be fixed
8) i take it they are going to replace it for you
9) poor quality fuel? haven't heard anything about that one
10) there have been documented cases here on the board

all in all, i like my CLS, and have had minimal (aceptable) items repaired

nate'sCLS

This is because you have common sense acura service and realize that no car (or much else for that matter) is 100% perfect. If someone bought a car that isn't their type and they would have preferred another make, then why in the hell didn't they get the preferred car in the first place? !

Persian Prince

1) When you buy the car brand new and it has a tear in the seatbelt it IS Acura's fault since it was like that before I took ownership.

5) There have been many posts about the seats squeaking and that is nothing new.

6) That is not an acceptable answer, the seat belt must be able to retract. It is not safe and could cause serious injury. What if I try to get out of my car and my leg or arm gets caught on the seatbelt instead of it retracting the way it's SUPPOSED to? I am not trying to be picky but it is a safety issue.

9) I use 91/92 octane premium fuel so that arguement doesn't hold any water. If you want I can show you my gas receipts. About a month ago there was this whole thread about this issue so I am not the first one to mention it. Look it up you will find it.

If you were my service rep I would slap the hell out of you for those silly answers to my problems (nothing personal). I am upset at Acura because the car has too many issues for a car that costs that much and for a car manufacture that is supposed to be luxury. I never had any problems with my Nissan Altima and I owned it for 6 years and beat the shit out of it. Those answers/comments you made are totally unaccptable and downright insulting.

My time is very important to me due to my kind of work. I need a reliable car that will take me from place to place. I am tired of dropping off my car for service every other month. It is very inconvenient and frustrating. I paid $32000 for this car and I expected to get a great car in return. Everyone I spoke to talked highly about Acura and their reliability but when the SRS light comes on while I am driving it kind of worries me. That is why I am dumping the piece. It is so bad that I have Acura's service phone number programmed into my cell phone.

I hear people say that I should try a different dealer but fuck that. Why should I be inconvenienced because my dealer can't get their act together? The next closest Acura dealer is about 35 miles away and I am not driving 35 miles for service. That would take even more time and I have heard some bad stories about that dealership also. The bottom line is that I am selling this car and getting a car from a dealer that is proven.

Paul

I know tons of people with bmws and mercedes that break all the time. And the loaner depends on the dealer. The bmw dealer here give u fords as loaners. I agree that the bmw handles and is more fun to drive than the CLS. But the $10k price difference is not worth it, plus the room difference. I have had bmws and my ex has a 330, it just doesnt feel as comfortable as the CLS in my opinion.