russianDude,

Read the last couple of posts that I worte. I am 'not' talking about the oil color. To judge an oil change based on color is rediculious. I don't know the exact milage that the oil would turn black but I can assume that it would be before 2K. What I said was to look at an oil filter after 3K and compare it to a new filter of the same make and model. Sure things have changed since 10 or so years ago, but we still drive gasoline powered cars and still produce carbon. Until we are driving propane powered cars then I might think of justifying a 7.5K oil change. As for; "They all use synthetic", if u are refering that all Benzs come with synthetic the only Benzs that I know that come from the factory with synthetic are the AMGs. So Mercedes says to change their oil every
10K-15K, well Acura says for a tune up after 100K. Tell me would u wanna push a fuel filter to 100K or how bout a spark plug.


Juker008

 

We had some member doing oil analysis on his TL after 6K miles on Mobil 1, his oil was still fine?
I told you I agree with you that if you want to get MAX protection 3K is the safest way. But this is like being super carefull.

As far as tune ups and etc, call me ignorant, but I will only do my tune up at 100K miles or when I will feel that my car is loosing power and needs new spark plugs...

I had Toyota Camry running until 190K miles, I had never done anything more than recommended in the manual. I was doing 6K oil changes using REGULAR oil. When I sold it, it still run great at 190K miles!
Is Acura supposed to be worse quality than Camry?? Maybe it is, I rember never changing my transmission fuild... the fluid was black, and at 190K miles transmission would still shift perfectly!

 

Of course! The people on this board are only changing more often to make themselves feel better. It has very little to do with the car. However, the CL's transmission is a little more sophisticated than a 10 year old Camry's. I'm assuming it took 10 or more years to amass 190k miles.

 

Yeah, about 10 years, never changed tranny fluid. Ofcourse CLS transmission is more sophisticated, but why should this be at a cost to the reliability??

 

For a "manumatic" transmission the fluid is under considerably more pressure than a "normal" transmission. By that alone fluid life is reduced somewhat.

 

So? It's still not acceptable to have your transmission fail for no reason.

 

I'm 100% in agreement. However, I wouldn't treat the tranny fluid in the higher pressure more sophisticated "manumatic" the same way as I would a 10 year old camry. Nuff said!

 

Yeah, I know. I change my CLS fluid every 15K miles and drive my car like an old granny... So if this thing dies on me -- I will be really pissed and will buy something else, something that is realiable.
One thing I want to notice, I see people on this forum going to race track and competing whose 0-60 time is better... Those people should not be counted if their tranny fails.

 

for detailed oil analysis spread sheet see here;

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=100060

 

It's too much info. to digest... The more I read the more I get confused.
So far I have not found an absolute answer to what is the good time to change oil... So much conflicting information...and oppinions... there is no absolute answer.

Some company needs to do some serious tests.... Have 10-20 cars run only synthetics, have oil changes every 10K miles ( or 5K miles). Perhaps use taxi-cabs, and then inspect engines internally at 200K miles... that's the real test.

 

here's one on trucks... not the same but still shows a strong commitment for extended drains..

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetes...king/index.htm

They did one on taxis, I wasn't able to find it... the results were very positive...

 

According to this article the results were a success, so why do you still argue that you should change oil and filter every 3K miles ?

I was also thinking that those big oil companies like Mobil1 do not want to lose profit, that's why they don't advertise long drain intervals. I am not sure whom to trust, oil companies will push for 3K oil changes... their reserch might be biased...

 

Might be biased? You can count on it being biased! Its like a doctor telling someone they need a check up every year. You don't need a check up every year the doctor needs a fee every year!

 

Just follow the manual that came with your car man. And if you want to be extra safe, use synthetic. I don't understand why no one believes the manual that came with our cars. 7,500 miles is fine... Best of luck!

 

Strange you mention that...


I get what you're trying to say... However, FYI, the HMO/PPOs basically pay to keep most of the doctors (there are some exceptions) a flat fee per patient that elects to have them as a their primary care physician. So, they get a fixed fee (per year) no matter whether they come in or not. And, most of the doctors I know are so overworked by current patient load, that they prefer to have you NOT come on down. This changes according to region and there are some Dr's that have had enough with the managed care garbage. But, if you miss a checkup or don't change some oil you mess up a piece of machinery. In my area, they love to turn patents away, since they are so overworked that you feel like asking the Dr. when have they had a vacation. (You should check out the fee that some of the Internal medicine guys get for an “office visit”…)

OTOH, you would not enjoy some of the really sad stories about people that got to the Dr a bit too late (that yearly check up would have saved their life). And, of course, as with all things, if the guy you got is burned-out or stupid... well, it probably wouldn’t matter...

 

We have a man in the Tampa area that's 106 years old. A couple of days ago he turned 107. Reporters went to his house and asked the man what he thinks his key to longevity is. A direct quote from 107 years of wisdom, "All my life I've stayed away from doctors. The only time I saw a doctor was to cure Poision Ivy. Doctors will kill you faster than cancer, heart disease, and bombs combined". I couldn't agree more!!!

 

"why do you still argue that you should change oil and filter every 3K miles" I think you got me confused with someone else,, I changed at 9600 miles on one filter. My analysis showed the oil still in very good shape but a high Iron content 114 ppm, The labs recommendation was to just change the filter. I am saying change your oil with what ever makes you comfortable. For me and by analysis 10k mile changes works... Mobil1 and Amsoil seem to have very good spec data,, only Amsoil promotes extended drain interval and shows you how to test your oil to prove to yourself it's merits.

 

Hopefully, you never develop polyps in your lower intestine and have them turn cancerous. There are some doctors that will kill you and there are others that will save your live.

Be very careful with generalities – there are some people that smoke cigarettes until their 107 and that doesn’t mean it’s a formula for living to a ripe old age.

BTW, your statement is profoundly ignorant. There are great people and terrible people in all professions. I could tell you horror stories about the morons with MD after their name and hopefully, you never get in a car accident. Next time I get a call from some folks that are living due to the work of some of the good MDs out there, I’ll make sure to tell them it was all a big joke…

Can I post a notice in all of the ER rooms that you know that Dr’s will kill you, so they can leave you on the cart if something ever happens to you?

Great logic…

BTW, I also know some drivers that never change their oil or have a service and the cars run fine for 5-7 years and they just give them to someone else… I guess that means all of us here that change our oil are a bunch of idiots…

 

Ah sorry, my bad, I must've confused you with other member

 

When will u guys look at ur oil filters. Reading all these replys I can def tell that no one here has ever opened up their oil filters after a long driain intervial.

Another quick question: how much are u guys paying for an oil change?

I only pay $17 for a 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 5W-30 and $5 for an oil filter. I do the work at home and despose of the oil at the local auto parts store.


Juker008

 

Damn man chill out. You must be a DR. in training because only a Dr. can get so upset over someone else having an opinion! You have your opinion (which I think is ignorant), and me and the old man from Tampa have ours. And YES post all the notices in ER's that you like. If I'm ever in an accident and my guts are outside my body let me die before a Dr. touches me!!! Deal with it!

 

$17 for 5qts?? I pay about $24 for 5qt, here at pep boys mobil 1 is like $4.80 per qt.

 

Correction I pay $17 for 1, 5 quart bottle fo Mobil 1 "Fully-Syn" not that crappy Tri-Blend.


Juker008

 

Lab Analysis tests function of filter, check data I believe it's listed under "insulubles"

Total cost for Amsoil + amsoil filter is $35 for every 10k miles. If you change every 3k your cost for 10k miles is $66 plus. Pay a couple of bucks more for a good filter and change every 10K, your cost will be around $30.

 

http://www.wic.org/bio/jsalk.htm

I posted a links of one of your villains...

 

http://www.wic.org/bio/jsalk.htm

I posted a link to one of your villains.


And, thanks for helping to free up the system...

 

The Engine Oil Bible

 

Wow. Based on my spreadsheet results, going 15k on a J-series Honda V6 with a Fram-made filter is asking for trouble, despite the use of a synthetic.

J-series engines gobble up good filters, let alone relatively inferior U.S./Canadian-made Honda filters.

If you insist on going 15k, seriously consider changing your filter every 4 or 5k AND most importantly take an analysis to make sure your wear levels aren't elevated. J-series and D-series Honda VTEC engines seems to exact harsh stresses on an oil filter.

I fear you've been using synthetic early on, which is another fallacy on these V6 Hondas. Based on Silver Bullet's(aka RussMaxManiac on the spreadsheet) CL-S results, the J-series V6 needs up to 10k to fully break-in. Analysis results have shown excessive wear on all V6 Honda vehicles that have 25k + miles, and switched to synthetics early and go long drain intervals. The main exception is member "VaV6", whose 3k change intervals on his J30A1 (despite using relatively inferior Honda OEM and Fram filters) has consistently shown lower wear levels.

 

Too much info? If anything, it's not enough. Actually, J-series V6's seem to behave the most consistently, with all exacting high levels of aluminum, iron, copper, and lead. Looking at the total vehicle mileage, the drain interval, and the oil history, it's easy to see that extended drain intervals on J-series V6's is tough to recommend, regardless of oil selection.

The best way to go extended intervals on these particular engines is to treat it right from day one, going 3 to 5k before the first change and then allowing for more wear by using a conventional oil and 2 or 3 more 3k oil intervals. Then, go to a synthetic for 5k or so and take another oil sample for analysis. Based on those results, adjust your drain interval accordingly and re-sample every other oil change.

The most important thing on these engines is to not go over 4 or 5k on a single oil filter.


I think the only accurate tests are done as represented by my spreadsheet. Real world, no organization, just a good factual account of location, driving conditions, and oil history. With element by element explanations, and the groupings of similar engines on a page, it's not difficult to draw conclusions on what should and should not be done and how engines tend to wear.

 

Well, Amsoil claims its filters last for 10K miles and oil is good for 25K miles, they back it up with field lab tests and analysis. Are they wrong? I think all other companies except Amsoil are trying to make money... Mobil 1 recommends to change their synthetic oil at the same interval as regular oil, I am sure they do that cause they want you to buy their stuff more often... otherwise they will be losing sales.

I read some very good sources of information, they had cars running synthetic oil up to 200K miles without any engine wear/tear. Those cars had 10K mile oil & filter change.

I am 100% sure, that if I run my Mobil 1 and PureOne oil filter for 6-7K miles.... I won't have any engine oil related problems up to 200K miles.
I agree that 3K is better, but question is how much better? If its little better, and will make my engine last 400K miles instead of 300K miles, I don't really care.
If I am paying $50 for an oil change, I expect to get more out of it, otherwise I would be paying $20 and changing regular oil every 3K miles.
It's your money, if you like to waste it like that... then go ahead.

and NO, I am not wasting even more money to send it to the lab for analysis every 10K miles.

I think the best thing is to have what expensive Mercedes are equiped with. Their monitoring system constantly chemicly tests your oil, and when it determines that oil is bad, it tells you to change oil.

For your information, Mercedes in general perform 10K synthetic oil & filter changes. And those thingies work forever. I am sure german engineers know what they are doing if they have this long drain intervals.

 

They did not test a Honda J-series.

Were they a Honda J-series?
The oil analysis info Bill has is specific to our cars.

I don't see why you would have problems, this is following the owners manual.

You don't have a Mercedes motor or a Mercedes oil filter. Why would this apply to you?

 

Bluto,

I did not know that Honda engines are so crappy that they require more frequent oil changes than Ford ? I am saying this because those long-drain interval tests were run mostly on Taxi-cabs which are Ford? You are right, I did not consider that. Perhaps Honda enginees are so sensitive that they need extra oil changes compared to Ford ( if this is true then shame on Honda ).

Yes, you are right. Mercedes enginees are much better, and much cleaner so they do not polute oil with metal as much.

Unfortunatly, some of the people think that you should change your oil & filter 3K miles regardless of manual.

Economy is an issue... 3K is probably better, but its not necessary. Like I said, if you plan to keep engine running till 300K miles, maybe 3K is better... but I am sure that 6-7K oil changes will get you to 200K just fine.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by russianDude
[B]Well, Amsoil claims its filters last for 10K miles and oil is good for 25K miles, they back it up with field lab tests and analysis. Are they wrong? I think all other companies except Amsoil are trying to make money...

If you check the spreadsheet, I ran 10k(9600) on Amsoil 5W30 + Amsoil filter. The oil tested still usable but I had a high concentration of iron (FE 100ppm), This time I'm changing the filter at 5k (to a oversize unit, sdf44) I will then change oil and filter at the next 10 k mark, and do a analysis again. I am using the more expensive 0w30 to see if it helps in the high iron wear problem. Next test will be posted in about two months.

 

This thread was brought out from the grave...

Based on this statement you obviously know little or nothing about scientific and statisical interpretation of data.

As I've said before, I applaud your efforts in attempting to bring some semblance of reality to what seems to me as more of a religion then a science, but...

Based on the sample size and randomness of data collection, your findings don't mean squat when it comes to a real statisical interpretation. Your study has NO power whatsoever (if you don't know what 'power' means in statistics then you're lost already). Your data is merely a collection of anecdotes. You can only make guesses as to what your data implies, not true statisical implication.

The only way someone can truly study these issues would involve blinded prospective trials on 1000's (if not 10,000's) of engines all running the same oil and same filter. Even then there probably is some confounding data that would add difficulty to interpretation (such as uniformity of quality of engine build, etc). The only people who can afford to do a scientific study are the engine or oil manufacturers and of course they have inherent bias. There are too many engines, too many cars, too many oils, too many filters, and too distant of an endpoint (say 'can my engine survive to 150K miles?'), to make any credible statement with small sample sizes.

Your spreadsheet data may help one evaluate what happens with their own engine over time, but I would be hesitant in making bolder conclusions about trends or what happens in other people's engines. I'll continue to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

It's OK for oil to have high concentration of some polutants as long as its USEABLE. We are not trying to establish record for most miles on the same engine.
All I want is 200K miles out of this engine. Is this to much to ask when using Mobil 1 synthetic with Mobil 1 filter/or Pure One and changing oil every 6-7K miles with 50/50 city/highway driving?
I am pretty sure I won't have any oil related problems with my engine. Transmission will blow more likely

 

OK.



Interesting....doesn't mean squat....hmmmmmm....OK.


I believe such "studies" like what Consumer Reports did was inherently biased as it used only engine type and one set of circumstances. Say what you want, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that J-series V6s have higher bearing wear than VQ Maxima engines over a similar mileage interval. That isn't debateable.

Whether it is "scientific" or not doesn't concern me as I am able to read a set of numbers WITH an understanding of someone's oil history, location, etc. and see trends in wear values. Science doesn't/can't/won't make such an endeavor as the "perfect" oil interval for all vehicles and I'm not pretending that my endeavor will as well. But there are common sense approaches that can be taken. With Hondas, oil filtration needs to be looked at closer than on other vehicles.....


It's a continuiung evolution. There are reasons the J-series V6s are showing high wear values. I believe the main reason is illustrated through oil change histories and most everyone who has participated has attempted to go 10k+ on an interval without changing the filter. The only one who has not, member VaV6 on the v6accord forum, is showing lower wear metal values.

Granted, the J30 isn't as agressive as the J32/J35, so lower wear isn't that surprising (and Blackstone's own average values allude to lower wear values overall from the J30 engine), but his oil change history has been consistent with 3k intervals. In his vehicle, 15k oil changes are plausible provided the filter is changed out often enough.

 

Could you clarify your statement (regarding the break-in/synthetic)? (I presonally am into overkill filter changing...)

I looked over the data, and wondered what the deductive process and evidence was used to form this conclusion. I have some thoughts, but without knowing the whole picture, it's hard to comment or process the information further.

For example, there seems to be a very small sampling, and without knowing how the driver "broke-in" the car, there could be a lot of room for "interpretation?'

TIA

 

What's considered to be "long-drain interval" for synthetic oil that could cause excessive tear to Honda engines? 5K, 6K ???

 

dang you guys take oil changes soo seriously.. i have about 12K and i changed to "Royal Purple" triple synthetic oil... and i got 40 more mpg, and thas the only info i need... so ya, synthetic is the way to go...

 

It may have advantages over breaking into the "returned/used" oil sump at the local gas station to save a few bucks trying to find used filters and waste oil...