Pappy

Hey guys, If change over to synthetic oil at 12,000 miles, what is the best oil and weight to use for Florida? Should I stay with conventional oil?

russianDude

In climates where temp. does not drop below 20F, you can use 10w-30.... However, all year oil recommended by our manual is 5w-30.

I'd definatly switch to synthetics. You can have extended drain intervals(safe to change every 7500 miles regardless of your driving) and get most protection and fuel efficiency for your engine...

fender4

I just had my Amsoil 5w30 tested after 10k miles, results came back very positive except a higher than normal iron content. The lab recommended just change the filter. I changed oil and filter to 0w30 amsoil and amsoil SDF20 filter. I will now change the filter at every 5k miles and the oil at 10k. My results are posted on the maxima spread excel sheet.

russianDude

I just do Mobil 1 every 7,500 miles and regular oil filter. I drive 50/50 city/highway.

I have to double drain interval, otherwise what's the point of synthetic oil...

fender4

Research your oil filter choice; we're now at a point were the synthetic oil out lasts most filters. Have the synthetic oil analyzed, you'll be surprized how long you can use it. I used to change every 3k.

russianDude

Honestly, I don't care about oil as much as I am worried about tranny dieing

Juker008

Double Drain???

Juker008

Juker008

Where can u get the oil anylized???

Ah Russian Dude FK the tranny ur covered under warranty. Get the most bang for ur buck. Trash those trannies.

Juker008

CLS899

You can get your oil analysed at:

Blackstone Labs., 4929 S.Lafayette St., Fort Wayne, In. 46806

219 744 2380. Cost is $ 18.50.

Pappy

This is interesting. Why would you have your oil analysed. What would it tell you?

CO-CL-S

Three things: The condition of yoru engine, the condition of your filter and the condition of your oil. Depending on what they turn out to be, you can decide how to do the oil portion of your maintainance.

fender4

Science rules: I did this to prove to myself that with the proper synthetic oil and a "Good" filter the oil will last 10k miles. It's just a experiment. So far the oil holds up! The limiter is the filter. Amsoil states the Series 2000 0w30 oil is good for 35k miles with Amsoil filter changes at 13k. Mobil1 wants you to still change at 3k. Hummm 3x the cost, I guess $$$$ is pushing Mobil. But Mobil1 tests just as good as Amsoil. They have a 50 year supply of crude oil they have to sell. I change at 10k, this should have plenty of margin for error.

Read tech data at www.amsoil.com They push the extended drain intervals..

Juker008

OK so I would do an oil change and send them a portion of my used oil. Then they would send me back results.

1) How long does it usually take to get the results back.

2) What do the results look like. What would a typical anylization
look like?

3) Through the results how would we be able to determine it the
oil that we are using is holding up or if there is wear.

4) Does this test the lubricosity of the oil?


I use Mobil 1 Ful Syn 5W-30. And I've always changed my oil at 3K. But ever since I chnaged to Mobil 1's new Fully Syn I swear that oil gave me extra poneys, andI can feel it, and not just do to an oil change.


Juker008

fender4

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Juker008
OK so I would do an oil change and send them a portion of my used oil. Then they would send me back results.

1) How long does it usually take to get the results back.

took mine 1 week,,, I use Oil Analyzers Inc,,,, they distribute their test kits thru Amsoil.


2) What do the results look like. What would a typical anylization
look like? search and find their web page or bring up this excel spread sheet found here

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=100060

3) Through the results how would we be able to determine it the
oil that we are using is holding up or if there is wear.

see spread sheet

4) Does this test the lubricosity of the oil?

Yes, see spread sheet and compare new oil with the various used oil


I use Mobil 1 Ful Syn 5W-30. And I've always changed my oil at 3K. But ever since I chnaged to Mobil 1's new Fully Syn I swear that oil gave me extra poneys, andI can feel it, and not just do to an oil change.

more "Slippery surfaces" reduces internal drag....
butt meter might feel the differents





Juker008 [/QUOTE

Pappy

Ok, I'm convinced. At 12,000 miles, I'll change over to Mobil 1.

Bill Faure

It's your money to waste. Unless you are driving under extreme conditions there is no proof that syntehtics are better than the much cheaper conventional/dino oil.

fender4

????proof???? yes direct lab results are proof: if you keep your car 200k miles with minumum internal wear that's proof. If you sell your car every 50k then internal wear is not a factor.


yes the cost of changing dino oil 2x or maybe 3x more often might be cheaper but not by much. It's not wasted money if extended drain intervals are used.

more fun reading, very very long

http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm

jimcol711

ok, how in the name of god do you change your oil filter without the oil pouring out all over you and the ground?? do you drain it all out then put it back in through the top of the engine again??

Juker008

No when u remove the oil filter only 1 ounce of oil comes out. That is the oil that got tied up in the oil filter lines. Only a little amount escapes when u remover the oil filter. So remover the oil filter, replace with a new one, check the dip stick, and add the appropriate amount of oil to top off the engine.


Juker008

Bill Faure

As usual I still don't see any proof. The link you provided only strengthens my point. Quaker State has a conventional/dino oil that doesn't require changing for 7500 miles under normal conditions. There goes your extended drain intervals point. I think it comes down to if the more expensive synthetics makes you "feel" like your doing better for your car, then go for it. However, in reality it really isn't.

russianDude

You need to do some research before making comments like this. Yes, synthetic oil is a better protection for your engine, and can easy double the drain interval compared to regular oil.

Go read some research, boy....

EricL

A useful and impartial link (at least in my opinion)...

The synthetic seem to be going a while...

The site is for ALL oils and there are a ton of oil test on all kinds of oils and suggestions on how and when to move to extended schedule and what to look for in oil test, etc.

It's oil city...

The guys there are "mature" and test and talk about ALL kinds of oil: synthetic (Mobil 1 [seems to be ok -- time to kill the bad rumor mill garbage]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000130

Older Tri-synthetic:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...=000065#000000

Tri-Syn VS. Super Syn

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000112

Amsoil

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000129

(21K miles or so [with top off])

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000098

(5K miles or so)

For people who think a K&N will destroy your car:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000100



They also have tests on some of the other "conventional" oils...

fender4

Yes continue to use Quaker State, if it says on the bottle good for 7500 miles; that must be true.
The bottle of Amsoil I use has on it, Good for 35k, this must also be true.

Bill Faure

I have researched it through Consumer Reports magazine. They accept no advertising money. Unfortunately, they do not have the results posted anymore as the test was more than 2 years ago. Under normal driving conditions C.R. found there was no more perotection using synthetic oven dino. Keep in mind the test was 2 years ago and does not apply to any advancements made since then.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

You're arguing in this thread about data from over 2 years ago? OMG... that's a joke, right? Synthetic oil has come a very long way over the last few years.... read some of the links posted above.. you'll see it's PROVEN that synthetics are better then dino oil. The only thing that's really up for debate is which oil to use. Personally I use Redline....

Bill Faure

I disagree and stand by what consumer reports published is still valid. The links provided above are all using extremes. Hands down synthetics are better than conventional under extremes. However, in everyday driving and changing the oil every 5k to 7.5k synehetic is no advantage over dino. If I'm driving in Texas somewhere with ambient air temp at 110 degrees and my radiator sudenly goes dry with 200 miles to the next town I want synthetic in my crank case, but unitl that happens I'll pay less for dino Thank you!

EricL

Perhaps it is about "extremes" or even knowing what is extreme.

If not for opening up the valve cover in my little BMW, I would have never seen all of the "black" coking inside the cylinder head (the oil on the dipstick or being drained always look pretty clean @ 3K mile changes). By, 80K, the engine’s head area looked like a seasoned fry pan (or looked like it got a black anodizing job). (I had been using "conventional" Castol GTX)

So, the engine ran fine, but without seeing the inside from doing my own valve adjustments, I would have never known.

After rebuilding, boring, and modding the engine, and breaking it in, I switched to Mobil-1, and it never got dirty (always looked new) I put the stuff in since I knew the heads got way pretty hot…

So, YMMV

peiqinglong

Redline 5w-20

Pappy

Well, here in Florida the asphalt will radiate to 105-111 degrees during the afternoon. That's pretty extreme.

Juker008

People, people, people. We are not seeing the big picture here. Oils need to be changed often. Lets take into example Amsol. Now there is an oil that say that u don't have to change it for 35K. But that is insane. Oil is used to cool, lubricate, and 'clean' vital engine parts. Now look if Amsol says that all u have to do is change the oil filter evey 3K but keep the oil in for 35K I think that is rediculous. If anyone has ever done an oil change themselves they see that the oil is not the same color as it was when they first put in into the engine. The reason why oil comes out black is due to carbon in the oil that was colected from the engine. People this is carbon, the same stuff that they use to make carbon fibre hoods and brake pads, and u all know that shit is freekin tough. Now u are saying "well Juker008, that is why I change my oil filter every 3K". Well if that were the case then ur oil wouldn't be black at 3K now would it??? People oil filters don't catch carbon, they catch shit like rust and the metal shaving that are cause from running carbon filled oil that's been circulating through ur engine for 35K FKin miles!!! Damm 35K miles of carbon can really cool an engine right? I mean thats why our radiators are made from this stuff right...or is it aluminum :rooleyes: . Look if u wanna drive a performance car that has 35K miles of carbon in the oil pan be my guest. Just do me a favor, when shit hits the fan, pull that peice of crap over and off the road, I'll be needing to get by. Shoulders aren't just for emergencies they are also for dumb Fks that think oil lasts for 35K.


Juker008

fender4

Seemed to have missed the point. Lab results are the way to test oil, "NOT" what it said on the bottle was the point. Also I believe there is no carbon by products from True Synthetics , read the treads over again SLOWLY and you'll note there is no "dumb Fks that think oil lasts for 35K" the point I made was SARCASM.

Bill Faure

Carbon by products are the result of internal combustion, not the oil used. When you write out the chemical equation for the mixing of gasoline and air under pressure and ignited there is carbon left over, i.e. by product.

EricL

Try getting some conventional oil hot enough and it will turn black (a test session with a fry pan was interesting). As to any need to worry with any new engines -- ???

If you have doubts about the "chemistry" take a fry pan and dump some conventional oil into it -- it will turn black. As to it mattering in your car's engine (who knows).

Hey, use whatever you like... At least the Acura has a pretty good cooling system...

Bill Faure

The reason oil turns black in a frying pan is because when heated past 300 degrees a checmical reaction occurs that produces parafins. Once again not carbon. Parafin is a hydrocarbon, but molecularly speaking a long way from carbon. You are probably assuming that becasue of the black color it is carbon. As mentioned earlier the color change of the oil in your crank case is because of the left over carbon from the internal combustion reaction. The carbon left over from the internal combustion reaction is definitly black in color.

EricL

Perhaps you can explain why the 2nd engine with only convention break in oil never formed the "black coating" (of unkown molecular compostion)?

Check this out:

! If you find internal parts coated with thick black carbon buildup, it means that either the engine oil hasn't been changed for a long time, or the engine has been overheated (Diesel engines, however, are more likely to be black inside, but anyway they should not have thick buildup). Mostly such (with thick buildup inside) engines are badly worn regardless of mileage.
For example, compare the two images below: the left Mazda' engine hasn't been maintained too well. I think it probably has been overheated. It has run 205,000 km (127,000 miles) and now needs serious repair. On the right, the Mercedes' engine has been maintained well. It has run 310,000 km (192,000 miles) and still its condition is very good, and it needs no repair at all. Can you see the difference?





So, perhaps you can explain why "thick black carbon buildup is used" and why most of the mechanics and engineers I know that have seen similar deposits in engines that run very hot use the term "carbon"/"carbon deposit"/"coking" for the term. BTW, the engine had minimal blow-by at tear down... OTOH, the cams and rocker's wear pads were shot (plenty of black on them and it didn't feel like graphite)


Interesting that my original got its oil changed ever 3K miles and was black (and no mods). Engine #2 was built with much higher output and never a single trace of black.

What I'm trying to tell you is some HEADs get very hot (I treated that engine like a treasure).


AND

Here's a tidbit you might find interesting (BTW, there are some parts in the engine that are getting above 300-degrees F)

"From "The Practical Handbook of Machinery Lubrication":

Putting Synthetics to Work

A construction equipment contractor was experiencing premature turbocharger failures when certain engines were operated under full load conditions and used around the clock. Investigation through oil analysis and diagnosis of the failed components, revealed that the failures were caused by coking of the petroleum base oil within the turbocharger oil passages, thus restricting oil flow and resulting in bearing failure.

The initial cause of the oil coking condition was excessive temperatures within the turbocharger housing. A fully synthetic diesel engine oil was selected of the same viscosity as the original petroleum base mineral oil and installed. Premature turbocharger failures did not reoccur and oil temperatures dropped by about 8°F...."

http://www.noria.com/secure/product_...p?catalogid=55

Juker008

I'm sry I did sound alittle out of line. But my point still stands. I find that pushing even synthetics past 5K is too much on a motor oil. I truly believe that even synthetics should be changed at 3K. I also believe that one of the main performance differences is that synthetics are able to capture and trap more crap (carbon/metal filings/ rust) than conventional oil. But still u can't have that flowing through ur car for too long.

Oh and u are also right "...there is no carbon by products from True Synthetics..." oils don't produce carbon unless they are burned. Combustion causes the carbon deposits.


Juker008

Juker008

Thank You


Juker008

Juker008

Ohhhhh u beat me to that one...

(Family Feud style) "Good answer, good answer"


Juker008

Pappy

Oh man, are you guys chemists of something?

Juker008

EricL,

I don't quite understand the point or question u are either tring to make or point out.

If u are asking me to compare the two engines that u posted it would be like comparing 'apples' and 'orange juice' . One is a Benz and the other is a Mazda. We both know that Benzs are of better quality and are able to burn cleaner than a conventional Mazda engine. In reguards to the Benz's engine not needing serious repairs after such a large sum of miles is not all that surprising. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that that Benz's engine is cast iron. The Mazda I don't know. But Benzs are know to be bulet proof in terms of reliability.
To take both the Benz's engine and overheating into account. I've seen a 1990 300SE that has had the engine sieze 4 times over. 3 due to driving without antifreeze and 1 due to blown fan motor. The "woman" who owned the car blew out a radiator hose every time all in different locations. The 'Mulian/Mulie' (Hatian) throught that replacing the all the radiator hoses was the mechanic's way of trying to rob her. But still the thing siezed up that many times but still ran, probably not for long with a owner like that. But try doing that to the CLS's aluminum block. Just once and that could warp the engine.

Now about that tractor that had turbo failure. Simply put, improper cooling. Simply throw on a large enough oil cooler and that tractor won't get turbo failures. I can see why changing to a fully synthetic oil fixed the problem. Because synethics can take more abuse than convention oil.

About the diesel engine that u described, that the engine shouldn't have carbon build up. I think that I can understand why there is minimal amounts of carbon coating on the engine. The internal components of a diesel are coated with lead. Carbon is easier to remove when it is coated with lead, by the oil.


Juker008