F=ma_RENAMED

Just thought my fellow CL guy's would like to know that there is a potential (actually its looking to be almost definitely) a supercharger in our future that isn't Comptech.

Check out the post:
http://www.superhonda.org/board/show...022#post540022

Summed up:

Revolutions Motorsports (They were at SEMA w/ a 99 Civic EX SC'd) is considering building a supercharger for the Honda V6. They are going to use an Autorotor Blower, which is positive displacement like the roots-style, but can provide high boost levels like a centrifugal supercharger can. They're finishing up their Prelude Supercharger, and will soon begin work on the Accord/TL/CL kit.

The Autorotor blower is insane, more volumetrically efficient, and thermally efficient than any other supercharger, runs off less drive, and under full throttle, makes more boost at 2000 rpm than any other blower can at 7000 rpm.


Here are some comparison #'s

0-60 and 1/4 Mile
Stock Miata: 8.8, 16.4 @ 81
Eaton Supercharged Miata: 6.9, 15.4 @ 88
Autorotor Supercharged Miata: 5.7, 14.0 @ 99


This is the helpful article about Autorotor Supercharged Miata's where I obtained this information.

http://www.ace.net.nz/miata/super.html


------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

Al Uminum

Great news AND great numbers!
Even if its not quite definite perhaps it'll spur CompTech to put alittle more boost in developing theirs



------------------
01 CL Type-S, White\Black\Navi\Comptech Springs+Sways\Burl Shifter\Guards\Smokers Package

e1828

THanks for finding this thread and pointing it out to us. However he never does mention the TL or CL specifically, he keeps on referring to his Civic and as soon as the Prelude is done he will bring the Accord in. I know we are very similar in many ways to the Accord but it is not exactly the same fit, I wish he would have mentioned something about Acuras. I believe someone had asked him specifically about the Acuras and about the trannies but he did not respond to those questions at all, he just reiterated what he had posted on the first post. But thanks again.. I sure do hope that this at the very least brings in more competition for SCs from other parties and/or lowers the price of the future COmptech SC.

------------------
Silver CL-S, no navi, spoiler,
guards, locks, full front mask,
soon Comptech springs and sways,
soon 35% tint front, 20% back

MCHM3

eother way we gonna have to wait like 1 year and maybe more before any supercharger comes out..........just twin turbo the car

------------------
2001 cl type s,custom voltage blue paint job, comptech headers, 18 inch ssr agle strusse rims, greddy evo exhaust, cross drilled rotors, pioneer avx 7000 tv, playstation2, iceman cold air intake(custom)paxton fuel pressure regulator, slammed on nex suspension

GoldTypeS_RENAMED

Wow.... very good news. I, too, am a little concerned however that it may not just bolt onto the 3.2 V6. Since this company may still be in the **maybe** stages on this we need to let them know how many TL/CL owners really are interested. I wouldn't consider it until after my warranty is up and if I thought I wanted to play with this car to make it really powerful, but dayuuum. Can you imagine the possibilities of this car now? Remember when we were all bitching about no aftermarket?
CL + I/H/E + SC + nitrous = 11 sec 1/4 mi timeslips???

If things keep going the way they are, one of these days we might actually see a CL or two in the 10s!

[This message has been edited by GoldTypeS (edited 01-18-2001).]

F=ma_RENAMED

Comptech has a target date of September 2001, at $3000. They sound pretty intent on making that date.

I talked to a Shop that does custom turbo's for cars. Ours would be $7000 out the door.

$7000 turbo? or $4000 supercharger... Considering our tranny will be the limiting factor either way, I'd rather get the no-lag constant boost Supercharger.

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

F=ma_RENAMED

Uhhhh riiiight... Not to be overly anal about a joke, but the difference between a 15-14 second quarter mile improvement and a 12-11 second quater mile improvement is enormous. Also the fact that tube framed all out drag civic's with 430 hp are in the 10's leads me to believe that something nearly twice that weight with comparable horsepower wouldn't come close to touching it. (its all about traction)...

But its fun to imagine,

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

Nashua_Night_Hawk

First, $4k-$5k is too much for this SC. Second, the CL engine comprtment is so tight that I doubt that their SC would fit. Finally, if CL tranny sucks big time then forget......
Worse, it would be joke if your HP gain would anything below 100HP!


------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.

typeR

let me ask this no one has addressed the compression issue of the type-S 10.5:1 is alittlet high and i read this issue of either superstreet or sportcompact about three civic SI's two blown and the third JUN all engine which incedentally took the competition...there are a few of you with a lot of money and i just wonder with some head work valve and lifter...tranny done by level 10 like LSD valve body and torque convertor as well as I/H/E 5.5 0-60 is very realistic and all this except the LSD im not sure on that one can be done right now!!!anyone wanna step up?anyone?buhler?anyone?...ASTRO????im mean buhler?:d

------------------
'01 3.2 CL typeR
Sundance Platinum
Llumar platinum plus
tint 20% all around
-----------------
'98 ACCORD V-6 sedan
16" coupe wheels
215/55/16 nitto's
20% smoke titanium

F=ma_RENAMED

What do you mean, too much?

If you read the article, he said that as they get to the final stages of the project, the parts will be cast instead of CNC'd and that will drop prices a bit. Also While yes, Autorotor blowers are the most efficient supercharger, they are the most expensive. Its like paying 40k for a Supra Turbo instead of 30k for an NA. You get what you pay for. This supercharger setup is already intercooled also. Find a comparable setup that is...

Camry Solara, nope. Vortech Civic Si? nope. What do they cost? Nearly $4000.




Have you raised the hood of a 300ZX or an RX7? That's tight. We've got it easy compared to that, and they managed to fit TWO turbo's in that amount of space. Granted we don't have the room that a civic does, it isn't submarine living quarters either.



328's had 190 hp, M3's had 240 hp. (E36) Oh yeah, those M3's man, they're such a joke

GS300's have 225 hp, GS400's have 300 hp. 75 hp is such a joke, forgive me.

540i's have 280 hp and M5's have 396 hp. just over 100 hp increase... If that's what it takes to NOT be a joke, than god forbid. I'd hate to be your waiter/maid/valet/bell boy or wife for that matter...

"Honey did you grow DD's overnight? if not you're a pathetic joke"



------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

GoldTypeS_RENAMED

I didn't say we wouldn't have to gut the interior, now did I???? True, at 3500lbs, we're gonna have trouble getting out the of 13s... but starting chuckin' those heavy back seats and all those electric motors.....

And yes, it is fun to imagine



[This message has been edited by GoldTypeS (edited 01-18-2001).]

Nashua_Night_Hawk

F=MA,

Again, if the Comptech SC setup, intercooled would cost $3.5K. Why pay more?

Second, the SC would be at least 4"x5"x18" from the pics and info provided on their site. Could you have such large box stuffed somewhere below the hood? Also, CL has 2-stage Intake replacing the intake to get some space could be major problem too....

Finally, the 10.5 CR (CL engine) as it was mentioned for the Porshe 944 SC will allow only 5 psi. I am not expert in SC but I will not be shocked if the gain would be some 40-75 Hp only.

Oh! All those examples of cars you mentioned are not FI versions they are totally different cars with different engines: M3 is not 330Ci with FI, M5 is not 540i with FI..... enough said!


[This message has been edited by Nashua_Night_Hawk (edited 01-18-2001).]

CL SLeePeR

I agree with you about the way he was answering the questions regarding Acuras. But at least someone else is producing a supercharger for the v6 models. Maybe if we wrote to them they will do the same as comptech and intergate it with the CL/TL models. If comptech is doing the same then who's to say that they wont? Still he could of answered the question instead of reffering to the civic. Gues we'll have to wait. Maybe we should keep asking him if they'll fit the CL? What doe you guys think.?

F=ma_RENAMED

Nighthawk,
Sorry for goin off like that, I had put up with one too many juvenile sh*thead's BS'ing today... I was just tired of it. You know your stuff.

Oh and about the price, you're gonna have to pay someone to do the custom piping for the intercooler, that'll be expensive, as anything custom is. Plus the cost of the intercooler itself.

Just the fact that a twin screw type blower is more efficient than a centrifugal, and yields a much more usable powerband justifies the price increase in my point of view? see where I'm coming from?

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

BeatYaAll

if they guarantee me that the SC will make my car get the 1/4 in 13 flat or less .. i would buy it .. other than that .. its not worth it... with out a supercharger and some mods i got 13.942 at 101 on the track and 13.8 at 102 on the Gtech in colder weather. but i guess with the SC and all the mods i have i will get into high 12's for sure... well we will just have to wait and see.

------------------
Gold CL-S with comptech headers, mufflers,Springs, V-AFC,AEM CAI. ACE hyper black Wheels 235-40-18ZR.
In the future..Supercharger or turbo if there is any.
Gtech run 0 to 60 in 5.41sec

My car pics are On http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...521&a=11013539

F=ma_RENAMED

You DO realize that 12.9 is Viper GTS/Lancer Evolution VI/Impreza P1/Shelby Series 1/Porsche 911 Turbo Territory...

I doubt a FWD car without being stripped and running some serious nitrous will ever be able to hang in that territory.

What would a McLaren say about a supercharger. "I hope it drops my 0-60 from 3.6 to 2.6"

The journey from a 15 sec 1/4 mi to a 14 sec 1/4 mile is much less than a 14 to a 13... MUCH less.

As an exercise, check out power/weight ratio's of 16 second cars, 15 second cars, 14 second cars, 13, 12, and 11, even 10 if you can find enough. Graph the function of quarter mile times vs. power/weight ratio's. Its exponential.

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

typeR

exponential one might say but who cares about quantum physics im talkin kickin mustang A$$ in street races to 80 or so how about my engine theory kenny???valves lifters port polish little level10 action thats the thing id really like to see someone do...if i had the money and im saying this as the poorest person on this board id do the level 10 torque and valvebody rebuild before all else

------------------
'01 3.2 CL typeR
Sundance Platinum
Llumar platinum plus
tint 20% all around
-----------------
'98 ACCORD V-6 sedan
16" coupe wheels
215/55/16 nitto's
20% smoke titanium

Nashua_Night_Hawk

F=MA,

are u sure? from you username eq.

f=mass*accelerattion ... acceleration is lineraly propotional to (force/mass)? right? Of course there is termnial speed air resistance, road resitance..... to count for

Stock CL-S has 260/3550 = 7.32HP:100lb. Now,
if add 100HP to the Stock = 360/3550 = 10.14:100lb or 38% gain in acceleration.

no some math, Vf = a x t, Vf is ds/dt...
ds/dt = a.t ... ds = a.t dt s=a/2t^2,

so t=Sqrt{(2*s)/a}

to go from 14 to 13 sec to cross s ....

14=Sqrt{{2*s)/a1}
13=Sqrt{{2*s)/a2}
(14/13)^2=a2/a1 == 1.16 or 16% more accelaration

So, I guess with more than 38% gain in HP you could some who attain 13 sec.

------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.

scalbert

Most SC system are in the $3k - $5k range depending on demand. Unfortunately we are in the lower demand range meaning higher costs. I find that $4k for a system with about 30% improvement would be a good deal.

If you removed the battery (moved to the trunk) and used a cross member drive (like the most recent Maxima), an SC would fit nicely.

One last thing, there has been no evidence of a deficient transaxle in the new CL. The conjecture is based on the Accord transaxle. The new CL transaxle is new and the limits have yet to be explored. I’m not saying it is strong, we just don’t know what it can take yet.

typeR

nasauh night hawk read my lips "no more quantum physics"

------------------
'01 3.2 CL typeR
Sundance Platinum
Llumar platinum plus
tint 20% all around
-----------------
'98 ACCORD V-6 sedan
16" coupe wheels
215/55/16 nitto's
20% smoke titanium

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Scalbert,

Have you seen a car whose battery was moved to the trunk?. Aside from the voltage drop... the use of oversized cables running to the trunk and back againg to the engine compartment could lead to saftey issues... Just a thought.


TypeR: "lolo, I am in love with quantum feezikss "

------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.

[This message has been edited by Nashua_Night_Hawk (edited 01-18-2001).]

scalbert

Having moved the battery to the rear hatch of my Typhoon, and my wife's '99 328i (comes stock that way, my edit) has the battery in the trunk does allow me to have an opinion on the subject.

BTW, what type of voltage drop are you speaking of. Because most cable I use, even in Industrial application, have a very low impedance. If I get more than a 100mV drop from the trunk to the engine I'd be really surprised.

Secondly, we use a floating ground anyway. The current path depends on the location of the source. So V drop is relative to the connection point.

But aren't we talking about modd'ed cars, who then cars where the battery is at. If I wanted 30% more power, the last thing I'd care about would be the battery location.

[This message has been edited by scalbert (edited 01-18-2001).]

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Scalbert,

y r right, resistance of 0.5" cable would be in milliohm, as u mentioned the drop would would be in millivolt range... sorry...

wiring safety could be still a concern if not done properly.

------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.

scalbert

Agreed, without a doubt. But most people that would install an aftermarket SC would either have an individual who has done this or an enthusiast with experience.

Either way, precautions should be met

Take care,
Steve

EricL

Hmmm... I wonder if it is going to be time for a wheely bar (with addition of supercharger)?

astro

LOL!

Thanks for the post and info Kenny, Nashua, typeR and Steve

I know I'd get it for sure, regardless of price...



------------------
Astroboy out...
2001 Acura Cl Type S: Comptech: Headers, filter, sways, springs, koni shocks, goodridge braided brake lines, full kicker system
1996 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo: H&R Springs and sways, Bilstein shocks

BeatYaAll

hey guys .. didnt u see that L-tuned GS400 .. it gets the 1/4 mile in 12 flat... i saw it somewhere on is300.net anyways the car is heavy as hell and it can do it in the low 12 and 12 flat ... if the Gs400 can do it with a turbo.. our car will do at least high 12's with a supercharger.

------------------
Gold CL-S with comptech headers, mufflers,Springs, V-AFC,AEM CAI. ACE hyper black Wheels 235-40-18ZR.
In the future..Supercharger or turbo if there is any.
Gtech run 0 to 60 in 5.41sec

My car pics are On http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...521&a=11013539