mantis23

I'd like to get my rims & coilovers at the same time.
I'll be getting some 19x8.0 rims(Not sure what the offset is, but I was told they would fit). So with that said, any suggestions on what type of coilovers to get?

I've only read briefly about NEX & Apex. So any help on other brands or personal experience would be appreciated.

Ultimac

NONE!!!! Coilovers are such sh*t. Have you ever had them on a car? You would be making your cars suspension like a skateboard. You will feel every tiny bump. If you are trying to steer away from springs just so you can raise and lower your car, look into Air-cylinders(newer than bags). Unless you plan on spending 1-2,000 dollars on your coilovers they will suck or unless you are strictly using your car as a racecar not a daily driver. Coilovers are only good on a completely smooth surface, are the roads where you live paved everyday?

bioyuki

Yes they are. Where the fuck do you live?

Anyways, if you're willing to spend the $$$ go look at Zeal coilovers. www.autocarparts.com They're completely adjustable. Astroboy has them but hasn't installed them yet. I don't think anybody on this board or the TL board has plunked down the moolah for them yet. Zeal is a well known brand however and their suspension systems are supposed to be really good.

mantis23

No, I haven't had them on a car before. And the roads are shitty any and everywhere you go. I'd be looking to spend about $1500 max on coilovers. Looking at autocarparts, it looks like they want $1700 or so for what seem to be decent coilovers. (Let me reiterate that I don't know much about coilovers)

Hmm, decisions decisions. Maybe I'll just go with the Comptech sway/spring setup if they are THAT much of a pain.

Someone get Astroboy off his booty so he can install them and post a review or something.

Any other suggestions?

EricL

I agree about the good ones costing $$$. However...


I put some non-progressive really hard springs and shocks in any car (Actually, I did one incarnation of my Bimmer -- I would knock your fillings out)

Hmmm... Let's see -- I don't think that Tim (with the Mugen) coilovers is into wearing a crash helmet to avoid smashing his skull over bumps...

IMO -- the "Coilovers are only good on a completely smooth surface..." may be true for a given model with a super high rate spring with over-damped shocks, but it doesn't have to be that way"

soopa

you guys are such bitches!

you seriously should not comment until you speak from experience on a CL.

I got my Ground Control's installed today and ride quality is awesome on stock shocks. and I appreciate a GOOD ride quality over a race tuned setup.

Switching between this CL and the other CL with comptechs... you can barely feel a difference.

there is a bit more stiffness and some more noise... mainly because their not yet settled and because I have it pooped to the ground with 19's lol... but otherwise... you cant really tell a difference... and my passengers couldnt tell ANY difference from how they remember stock. That includes Amy who drives the red one with comptechs everyday... she could not tell any difference except for road noise... which... is obviously the 19's.

there is NO bounciness at all... not even on MY street which is cobblestone.

it is far better then I expected.

Anyway, I can't prove it to any of you or give you a demonstration until the next meet... but speaking the truth... the ride quality IS NOT BAD.

I'm going to have to assume its simply because of the additional isolation in our cars. Cuz phil2 has GC's and 19's on his RSX and it rides like shit.

The CL is very mild mannered with GC's and 19's...


btw eric, with anything more then a slightly lower then comptech drop... I am experiecing rubbing on the outside fender lips under hard cornering. So I raised it up to a pretty similar drop to Comptech. (had it down to just tucking in front earlier today)

In the summer I'm going to trim the wheel wells a bit to support a lower drop. Its mainly that little "ledge" on the back fenders thats causing all the problems... front seems to have a lot of play. Would prolly have even more with anti-roll bars.

pics tomorrow.

EricL

Soopa -- you da man!

I'll be sending your lab coat.

soopa

hehe thanks

its only under complete 180 degree turns at 25mph+, with a passenger, that the front rubs... I'm actually VERRY impressed by the fact that I can complete turn the wheel without any rubbing at anything less then that speed with the drop.

Its really only that ledge on back fender back thats causing problems... it will be crazy easy to just roll that thing back too. Don't see what the point of it is functionally. Gotta get in there and check it out...


However, I do now think that you would only be able to fit an 8.5" wheel if you had a very stiff... and adjustable suspension.

Factoring in body roll with anything more then a 1" drop... you would probably get some rubbing on the outside somewhere with passengers.

I think with sway bars... and some way to adjust your ride height (like coil-overs) that you would be able to find a setting that eliminates excessive wheel gap but leaves you without rubs.

EricL

Soopa – regarding the fender rubbing at sub-Comptech levels

It seems that a one or more TLS or CLS members have done a rear-fender-plastic-trim-job on the inner rear fender to "fix" rubbing (with "some" setups) (Is that what you're going to do?)

There were pics, notes, etc.over here or over on the TL forum where pictures and descriptions where shown on the "operation"? (Anyone have the link [it was a recent posting].)

The HRE people were the ones who reported the 8" wide wheels being optimal somewhere near +50-+52 (they said it, not me).

So, would you let us know how low and how involved the "Procedure" is?

soopa

Eric, that trim job was best described by a TLS owner with the same wheels as me, just in silver.

However... he did something a little different then what I, or we may have to do.

If you feel the lip of your rear fenders... there is a .5 - .75 inch ledge the stretches straight from the edge of the fender in toward the wheel well. I don't yet know the purpose of it if any... but it is just a bend in the metal.

As I see it... this lil ledge is useless... I could easily roll it up and get it out of the way... but that could cause problems later on with dirt/water/salt getting in there and causing rust.

So it may be safer to simply trim the piece down... however this piece isnt plastic... so it could kinda be iffy...

You should take a look to see what I'm talking bout.

In front, it rubs directly on the plastic of the wheels wells... this could just be shaved down or re-molded pretty easily. Im not too worried bout the front tho because I can get a pretty big drop up there without rubbing... and even when I do rub its only under very hard cornering... like... straight up complete understeer plowing into the curb cornering. heh

So my main concern is the rear.

And yes, I agree... in an 8" wheel a +50 offset would probably be much better then +45 because it wouldnt be as close to the outer fender edge.

I don't know when you would start to experience rubbing on the inner wheel wells.... but I think theres a lot of play back there... I cant be sure though.

Maybe I should jack one corner of the car up and measure how much room I've got on the other side.....

EricL

In case this is not the same link you already found, here it is:


Here is the thread from the Tires and Wheels section of the TLS forum. There is a guy there with 19x8s that already cut the plastic.

The title of the link is: 19x8's that don't rub...anymore

Here is the link; I think you will find it interesting:


http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=24311

One picture of many:

soopa

here is that post: http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=24311

in this pic you can see that lip:


the body color part is the "ledge"

he apparently didnt have problems with that... but had rubbing on the plastic molding inside fenderwell.

that stuff is easy to trim... and fix/replace later if you ever want/need to.

but I'm definately rubbing on that "ledge" because you can see the line it forms in my tires. heh

I really think i'll just end up rolling that thing up... and then trimming some plastic down.

but this is strictly so i can drop it alot for the fuck of it.

im bored. sue me

so yea, I agree what he says... +45 should be minimum for 8" wheel. +50 is probably ideal.

But I still think that +50 8.5" would fit with a light drop on the CLS.

Remember, I had NO rubbing before drop... and I'm still about .5" lower then comptech in rear without rubbing. And I am just about tucking in the front with minimal rubbing.

Only reason I'll be trimming is to support a tucked drop for the summer.

soopa

hehe, you beat me to the punch eric.

but yes we were on the same page.


it seems to me like TLS owners have alot more rubbing problems then us... especially if this guy was rubbing with my wheels/tiresize on a stock suspension...

SinnedTL

Soopa you should just trim the fenders down, rolling causes cracks in the paint if done incorrectly, and even though it is done with care...the paint cracks are hairline so you cant really see them, although it might be there...I trimmed my rear fenders to fit my wheels since it is a 42 offset with 7.5 width which should be close specs to your 45 with 8 inch width...I trimmed just about half the width of the fender lip...you can see where the bumper and fender lip meets, the fender lip starts at half the width and then gets to its full size, well my fender lip only is about the width of where the rear bumper and fender meets...with full load you might start to see more rubbing on the bumper when your car is twisted when going over a driveway in an angle, which the sway bars might address this problem, but it is a very minor rub...but my advice is to trim the fender and then just clean up that area and spray some black primer on that shaved part since your car is black and there will be no rush...also your front is most likely rubbing on those plastic tabs/clips that hold your wheelwell cover in place, I took those tabs off and then heated up the metal part that holds the tabs with hairdryer and pushed up the metal part with my thumb as hard as I can...while a little rubbing still occurs, it eventually wears down so that the rubbing is almost nonexistant after a while...dont worry the metal part doesnt fly off when it rubs...anyways this is alot of typing, post some pics...copycat!

Den

CLpower

go apex'i!!!

I had them for awhile they rocked, and don't go sleeve coilover, you'll pay the price in the long run

mantis23

Sweet, good info. Keep 'em comin' if ya got more. Leanin' towards the Apex setup.

JRock

Wow Soopa, I can't wait to see the pics - sounds like it's tight as hell!

BlackShadow

I have the Apexi Coiloves with a 3" drop on my TL now for almost a year. Surprisingly the ride is pretty close to stock. But the handling is greatly improved. I can really take corners much faster now. As far as bumps are concerned, it is not as harsh as you would think. Even if you just drop it with springs, you will feel every bump also. I have taken a few friends on the TL board on a ride in my TL and they were also surprised. Plus I needed the adjustability for the winter. I am about to raise my car back up for the winter.

mantis23

Which Apexi Coilovers did you go with? It looks like there are 4 models from what I've read: Basic, B2, B3, & B6.

soopa

how do you figure?

you mean because you may blow your stock shocks?

so then you buy Koni's or some shit... why is that any different then buying the complete setup up front?

the sleeveless type setup allows you more flexibility and less up front cost with, IMO, no sacrifice in ride quality or performance verse other coilovers. Namely apexi.

It may be different for the real highend systems like ZEALs or something... but I doubt it.

I could be wrong... but I see nothing justifying the additional expense.

CLpower

um, no...your so wrong. I road on GC's for awhile and hated them. I didn't use stock shocks thats just askign for problems. But the car didn't ride good. It was way to bouncy and it ruined the dynamics of the car, it hasn't riden the same since i took them off. Those sleeve coilovers put a lot of stress on the suspension, they also have a tendency to crack.


ride in a car w/ apex'i, they are the cheapest true coilovers out there, you'll wish you spent the extra few hundred bucks. The best coilovers i think we have the option for are the fully adjustable tiens, my buddy has those on his type R, they are amazing

2Sxy4YoMama

They are available for the Honda V6, so I think you can get them if you want.

CLpower

yes you can

soopa

I could be.

But I doubt it... :P

You have never ridden in a new CL with new GC's...

I have ridden in a TLS with Apexis.

The ride is no different...

My car does not bounce at all... not even a little... not even on my cobblestone street. Not even at 90mph.

If it did, I would admit it... you know as well as the rest I was doubting the GC's before I bought and while they were on their way... I had planned to just resell them if I didn't like. Not like labor cost me anything.

If I wasn't happy with the GC's I would have put my Comptech's back on or I would have bought a different coil-over.

I really think these were a good choice... awesome price... not too stiff... not rough... not bouncy... and look/perform awesome.

I don't see how these are putting any more stress on my suspension then any other stiff lowering spring.

As for long term effects... I cant pretend to know. So I will take your word for now until I hear something from the more scientific members of this forum. Or until you can explain it too a stupid white new yorker like myself

CLpower

soopa, you've had them on your car for how long? a day? you can't really judge, cause right away your way to stoked on them. Even ask moomaster, he had GC's on his car and swears they are the shittiest things around. I've ridden in plenty of v6 accords w/ gc's and liked a few of them w/ the right shock setup. You may like them, and good for you. I've never said good things about sleeve coilovers and never will. I'm just giving out a warning to the people who are thinking about buying them like i always have. If you like them good. But i would of spent the money you are on the GC's and new shocks which you'll need very soon on a set of apex'i coilovers and probally of done it cheaper. Apex'i are not the best coilovers around, i'm not saying they are...but they are damn good for the price. Personally i'll probally end up throwing tiens on the subaru...fully adjustable...hmmm...makes me drool

moomaster_99

Trust me, in the long run...you'll pay for the impact of the sleeve coilovers on your suspension. I just switched from my sleeve ones to A'pexi and the difference is night and day...granted they weren't GCs....so, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on those, but, bobowah has the GCs on Konis and he is really starting to hate them. The problem with linear springs is that they are putting constant stress on the struts. This in turn will blow out the struts. The A'pexi do have a bit of noise associated with them, but this happens with ALL COILOVERS....and the ride is almost stock. Just my .02.

moomaster_99

BTW, those are Zeals...the A'pexi are only offered in the N1 Worlsd Sport configuration...height adjustability only.

CLpower

and

GC's + koni yellows = 934

apex'i coilover = 870

soopa

mmm... fair enough.

like i said... I can't yet comment on long term effects. I've had them a day so what do I know.

and all you needed to do scott was make the same comment as moo about the stress linear spring rates will put on the suspension.

instead of just saying "these are better just because" which you so often do simply for the sake of arguing. heh


All I can comment on is the initial change in ride... right now... I can switch between the CL with GC's and the CL with Comptech's and I cannot tell a difference except for some of the things ya notice with 35 series tires... mostly just noise.


Why is bobowah hating GC's WITH Koni's?? Based on how I ride with stock shocks I think with the right settings GC's & Konis could be as smooth as stock.

CLpower

i said that they put stress on the suspension, and it wouldn't ride the same

soopa

i saw no explanation as to why.

lots of things im sure put stress on the suspension...

LOWERING a car puts stress on the stock suspension.

CLpower

good point, didn't know if you'd understand the techincals though

moomaster_99

The ride is okay...if the konis are turned almost all the way up....however, the ride is far from stock....maybe it's his wheels...dunno, but also the Konis can't handle the extra stress from the GCs...it just wasn't meant to be...the Tokicos...I can't comment on...although, the Illuminas have had less than stellar comments from all my friends that had Illuminas (or still do) and have switched to true coilovers or Konis...I'm just saying Soop...after awhile...the springs wear on the struts...cuz remember..they are for an Accord v6...and meant for like 300-400 lbs. less...and the springs, I think, were corner weighted for a CL....so the spring rate surpasses the maximum dampening of the struts....however, I have heard that you can send the Konis out to be re-valved...maybe with a high dampening rate....