Scooter

i'm finally starting to guage when i actually rub...it's happening more and more often now prob b/c my CT's r settling more...but i seem to b getting it when i'm facing downhill and wanna make a turn, moreso a right turn than a left...last time i checked inside the wheel-well, the rubbing was on backside by the passenger cabin vs. up front towards the front of the engine...can anyone shed light on this???

BTW, i have Pilot Sport A/S 225/50/17's mounted on STOCK CLS rims

thx

Shawn S

That’s what you get for buying those 4X4 tires.

Do you think the problem will be better or worse when you mount them with the new RIMS this summer?

Shawn S

I am RobG

i got 235's on my 18's and i rub like a bitch! every time i hit a decent sized bump/dip its some sick rub and its starting to chunk the tires! i gotta get thinner tires but fuck it, i'll just deal with the rub(also when i punch it out of a turn the back rubs

Shawn S

What is the OFFSET of your wheels? Mine is +48
I was thinking about going with 235/40’s when my 225/40’s wear out.

Shawn S

I am RobG

42

Scooter

i don't get it...not like other people with the same tires r getting the rubbing

4X4 yeah yeah

remember i posted the question of whether the rubbing will get better with the new rims...response back seemed to b not much different, if at all...it's only a 1/2in wider

CharlesNguyen

Scooter,
Your 225_50 is about 5mm taller than stock 215_50, and your car is dropped, no wonder you rub the plastic fender well cover.
You need to back to got back to 215_50 when your 225_50 wears out or dremel part of the plastic well cover where it's rubbing.

Scooter

well part of my frustration arises from the fact that i have a CT drop, the most conservative drop

as far as Dremel'ing, i can't b/c the rubbing is on the sheetmetal frame, not the plastic well cover

Zapata

You'll need to get new tires for your SSRs. You'll soon find out that the Pilot Sport A/S lack SEVERLY when it comes to traction.

peiqinglong

That's low.

ELITE TYPE S

i have the same setup(42+ and 235's)...used the good ol' baseball bat fender roll method... ...only rubs on big dips....probably wont rub at all if used one of the professional rolling tools...

Scooter

maybe a few burnouts at E-Town next month will help

AgentDSS

Are you sure about that Zapata? I've heard nothing but great reviews on those tires and that they have excellent traction on dry/wet/snow and it's dry performance is better than SOME summer tires.

Zapata

For stock CLS these tires are good. But forget anything with a good amount of power. I am stock right now and and spin the tires from 10mph roll by going WOT. It's sad.

Don't get me wrong these tires are much better than stock but man i probably won't buy these tires again.

AgentDSS

Damn, I was looking forward to getting these in a few months. Is there any better all-season tire with better dry traction? I can't afford to get a seperate set of tires (winter or summer) so all-season is the only way I can go.

ktgumbo

That is what i have also.
But mine are wrapped w/ 225/45/17!
DO u guys think that i will run into the same problem
if I do CT springs, rubbing on turns?

mr. big

while were on this topic, i used to have rubbing in the rear only, then rolled the fenders to correct it....That solved the problem and rubbing was gone...but then, as soon as i installed my CT sways, going over the same bumps and driveways, i noticed more some rubbing issues, in the FRONT!!! WHAT the Fuk is that?? Y would the car rub more in the front when it never did b4? I am assuming that the sways have something to do with it...could it be that becuz of less body flex, the tires move less and are more likely to rub??

Scooter

all i know is the rubbing is on the inside back of the well...rolling the fenders is pointless when i rub...the inside corners of the tires r rubbing...and since i had springs, sways, and tires done at the same time, i can't isolate if it's the sways or the springs that r causing the problem

EricL

THE CT sways are biased for more roll stiffness in the rear. The roll stiffness in the rear is greater than in the front. IMO, the CT front increase is MUCH smaller than the rear.

There should be no difference if you hit a speed bump dead on (this presumes that speed bump is the same height from left-to-right). However, when you hit a set of bumps/dips that are staggered, you can get one wheel to “jack down” before it encounters a bump. Also, any bump that is NOT uniform from left-to-right changes the effective spring rate on the side hitting the bump. Depending on the conditions of the shock, the damping can “seem” lower when hitting staggered bumps.

One member simply changed from 235/45-17 to 225/45-17 and the rubbing went away. IMO, the amount of room between rubbing and not rubbing can be very, very small and a "minor" change can make the rubbing appear. Finally, the springs sag with time and the shocks loose their damping ability…. (You really need to qualify what kind of bump you’re hitting to get the rubbing.)



Rubbing examples:

SSR Type-C 17x8" + Toyo T1S 235/45-17 + Konis + Comptech springs/sways == RUBBING on hard rights/lefts.

SSR Type-C 17x8" + Toyo T1S 225/45-17 + Konis + Comptech springs/sways == NO RUBBING

SSR Type-C 17x8" + Toyo T1S 235/45-17 + WITHOUT Konis + Comptech springs/sways == NO rubbing.

225/50-17 Pilot A/S + Comptechs springs/sways + SSR GT1's 17x7.5 == RUBBING.


The bumpstops are designed for the stock car's tire. They need to stop the suspension before the tires come in contact with the bumpers. It's a fine line as to what is just enough bumpstop and what is too much (A beefed-up bumpstop for "mods" would be nice -- hey?)

Scooter – RE: 225/50-17, current setup and RUBBING:

The CLS was designed for the 215/50-17 with 17x7" +55 wheels. The recommendation for 17x7.5, from HRE, is +52 offset so +48 is pretty close. The 225/50-17 A/S is taller at 26.1", with the stock OEM MXM4 at 25.5". (A 225/50-17 MXM4 is 25.9").

There is 0.6" / 2 = 0.3" less room JUST from the height difference. The section width is only 0.3" wider (0.15” on the left and right sides of the tire); IMO, one of the reasons the 225/45-17s seem to have fewer problems is the reduced diameter and NOT the width. The 235/45-17s, on an almost identical setup (+52 vs. +48), have never rubbed. The 235/45-17’s section width is 0.8" wider and the height is slightly lower (0.1 - 0.2").

With a 10/32” tread depth, you would need to wear the tires BALD to get rid of that extra .3” of height.

Scooter

wow, cool analysis...just a couple things:

1. i'm currently still using the stock CLS rims

2. when i get the GT1's mounted next month, will the extra 0.5' width on the rim stretch out the tire enough to eliminate the rubbing??

EricL

----->

Anything is possible -- it would depend on the offset.

Can you draw a simple diagram to show where the rub spot is on the inside of the fender well (did I get that correct?)?

----->

If the height of the tires is the problem, the wider wheel will not change the height (at least not by much) and the section width won’t matter (Hey, it’s a hunch). The section width will WIDEN by 0.2 inches with the 7.5" rim vs. the 7.0" measuring rim listed on Tire Rack's site and Michelin's .pdf page.


Here's the info on how section width changes:

Excpert:

"First a little background. The TRA (Tire and Rim Association) set a 'design' or 'measuring' rim for each tire size, to ensure that all manufactures measure their tire on the same wheel. For 50 series tires and higher, the measuring rim width is 70% of the tire's section width, rounded to the nearest 1/2". For tires lower than a 50 series, the measuring rim is 85% of the tires section width. The actual dimensions of a tire are dependent upon the rim on which it is mounted.

Important note: A tire's width changes about .2" for every 1/2" change in rim width (over or under the 'design' rim). So you can 'stretch' a tire's width with an increase in rim width, within the approved range. Now for popular tire sizes from the fitment guide:

Excerpt on change in height of a tire with rim width changes:

"It must be understood that any tire height calculation will result in an approximate tire height. For each tire size, manufacturers will have published a range of acceptable rim sizes. If the rim size you are using gravitates to the upper end of this range (widest acceptable rim) then your actual tire height may be slightly less than the calculated height (increased rim width make the tire profile lower resulting in a shorter tire height). If the rim size you are using gravitates to the lower end of this range (narrowest acceptable rim) then your actual tire height may be slightly more than the calculated tire height (decreased rim width will make the tire profile higher resulting in a taller tire height). Usually these variances will be slight and tire heights to either extreme will work well in stock fenders. However, if you are planning to modify fenders and are going for that “looks like it’s going to rub effect” you would be best advised to do a dry fit of all parts before you make any permanent fender mounting decisions. "

NOVAwhiteTypeS

235/45/17 mich. XGT-Z , w/ comptech springs that I had for over 2 year and 3 months. No rubbing never.

mr. big

WOW! ERIC, thanks for the analysis....i dont understand it all but what can i do? Im not very scientific =(

The only thing i dint understand was, i came home b4 i putmy sways on, and i drove up the same driveway....I put the sways on and went for a test drive...As soon as i came back, 5 mins later, i drove up the same driveway, at the same angle....and i heard this rubbing sound, which appeared to come from the front....So, i reversed, and decided to take the driveway again...This time, i went super slow, and no sound was heard....My bro, who was outside the car, noticed that the front tires were just about to touch the fender....See, it never rubbed b4, or made that sound in the front, so i am speculating that it was due to the stiffness of the new sways....Do u think that could be? Or did i install it wrong? thx in advance

Zapata

Well overall the tire is pretty good in rain, snow etc., . Don't get me wrong. But if you have serious mods and stomp on the gas don't expect phenominal traction. Moreover, the tires are HEAVY so you will loose some power as well.

Dunlop Sport 5000's. Check them out. I've heard good reviews. I'll probably give these a try next time around.

lou_RENAMED

Scooter I told you the SSR GT1 are 48 offset and stock are 55 offset. The 48 offset means the wheels stick out 7 mm out towards the fender so from lock to lock your tires should be about 7mm out preventing any rubbing. Then your going with a slightly wider wheel which EricL pointed out it may or may not help but on offset alone should correct the problem. The only thing regarding the setup with the GT1s is it might rub the bottom of the fender on hard bumps since you sidewall is taller but hey get them rolled easy enough. Go ahead and see if Im full of shit I I had them with the Toyos Fz4 which are wider than my Michelins and no rubbing whatsoever.

EricL

You're coming in the driveway at an angle (one wheel hits before the other) ????

I see what your talking about (well, I think so). You could have the inside wheel being "pulled down" with the slightly increased stiffness of the sways. I looked at your sig and if you were close to rubbing before with the 235/35-19/wheels/Tein/Strut bar combo, it certainly is possible to get the rub with increased sway bar stiffness.

There's a quote that seems applicable: "Sway bars will add spring rate to the outside spring when the body starts to lean and pull the body down on the inside"

If the body is being "pulled down", you're losing clearance between "inside tire/wheel" and fender.

You may have seen pictures of cars picking-up their front inside wheel during cornering from having high roll stiffness up front.

You should be able to see some light rub marks on the tire to confirm this.

JRock

See sig for tires.

They have a little more road noise than the stock tires but the wear rating on these is incredible. And they're all-season Z-rated.

Also, I have never rubbed them as far as I know, but I also have camber kits. Who knows.

Scooter

here's the rubbing...lemme know if this changes any view of the situation...

left-side...

right-side...

blackmagiCL_S

Well that answers it all.

EricL

AS mentioned by lou:

1/2 wider wheel = 12 mm. (6mm more on left and right sides)

+55 - +48 = 7 mm further towards outside.

Just taking the 7 mm increase in offset vs. the 6mm (on the inside of the wheel) = 1 mm. (I don't know how valid this value [1mm] is for wear near the very top of the tire.)

However, unless I'm misreading those pics (I need to get to my car to compare), it looks like the very top of the tread on the inside is rubbing. The +48 looks like a possible fix.

-- Once again -- this is an educated guess.... YMMV --

lou_RENAMED

EricL you are absolutely right like always I think the rubbing is due to the overall diameter of the tire mounted. At first I thought it was related more to the increased width of the tire compared to stock. Judging by those pics Scooter your sidewall is too high causing the rubbing on the inside back and Im assuming not the front cause you have more room there. In my opinion the tires will rub even with the GT1 maybe not as much but I think it will still touch particularly in uneven surfaces. Scooter instead of spending money on mounting those tires on the new rims I say buy some new ones for the summer and keep the A/S on the stock rims for the winter.

Lou