LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

i think the wording of your posts have been throwing people off...

ported stock intake manifold + P2R plenums
v.s
j37 intake manifold w/ cover + tl TB (ported?) + gaskets + adapter (?) = 3 MORE hp gains than above.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

You don't need the TL throttle body. P2R's adapter utilizes your stock one.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Correct. The TL throttle body is drive-by-wire so it wont work anyway. You dont need to port the stock throttle body, but I am doing it because I would like to use as much of that 80mm bore that the intake manifold has.

Lippstuh, you are correct on the projected horsepower gains.

Ported stock CL-S intake manifold with P2R Plenums = ~10hp

09 TL SH-AWD intake manifold with ported CL-S throttle body = ~14hp

When I spoke with Sean at P2R I asked about before and after dynos. He said he didnt do a before run (without plenums), but the after run got 3whp over the stock ported intake manifold with plenums. He isnt running the butterflies in his engine, because its the Accord race car. He said he has a big race this weekend so he wont be doing any work to the car, but in a few weeks he will do before and after runs.

I am trying to get to the dyno sometime this week so I can get a baseline. Then once everything is in I will go back to see what gains (if any) I have.

NOTE- Due to the shorter runners, you will lose *some* low throttle, low rpm torque. Thats what Sean said regarding his motor. Having the butterflies installed may help that though.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Adapter & gasket are here, ordered intake hoping to get it this week.

What is the deal with the butterflies?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Im going to take a look at the butterflies once my manifold comes in later this week and compare it to stock.

Bad thing is that I wont be able to get to in-depth with it because I have to go to NY this weekend.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

how beneficial would this be to FI set ups? waiting for dyno and more information.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

We'll see when I get my SCer later this year. I assume it will create more power, since the manifold can move more air and since it isnt cast, you dont have any casting marks inside it, so the air should be able to move much more efficiently.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

And it looks damn cool!

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

interesting, someone PM me what i need to order...

if i don't order my s/c by this summer i'll be doing this first.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

17160-RK2-A00 $269.04 $0.00 $201.78 MANIFOLD IN.

17140-RK1-A01 $203.80 $0.00 $152.85 COVER IN. MANIFOLD

Both Civic & my dealer did these for 350.00 out the door.

You need the adapter from P2R to make it work.

Optionally there are the thermal gaskets, & 71mm TB.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

interesting... wonder how much the adapter will cost. i guess i'll contact p2r.

what tb is everyong going with?

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

The TB is a 71mm bored S TB. P2R makes them and refunds a core when you return the stock one from your car.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The adapter is $69.99, but they may be willing to work out a deal if you buy all the stuff, like I did.

BTW, anyone want to buy a CL-S TB spacer?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Damn time limits to edit:

My running total thus far is $728 for everything.

Thats $381 from P2R for the adapter, the 71mm CL-S throttle body, the CL-S intake manifold thermo gasket, and the TL throttle body thermo gasket(goes on the intake manifold side of the adapter). I already have the CL-S throttle body thermo gasket so you need to factor that into your cost as well. Of course you dont need to use thermo gaskets, you can use the OE paper gaskets.

The remaining $347 was for the 2009 TL SH-AWD (3.7l) upper intake manifold and top cover. That is below list price, so your local dealer may vary.

If Honda treats this the way they treated the switchblade keys, they'll soon realize that everyone is buying it and jack the prices up.

abptltypes02

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

That's a lot of $. I'd rather save for a 3.5...

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Well let's wait for the before/after dyno. If this thing can give 10whp and 10torque across the whole RPM band, it's pretty good for $750.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Off topic, do you still have your 3.5? How does it run?

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

How much did this run you? Also, did you purchase through a website or PM him?

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

It was 250.00 he offered it to me when we were talking about TPS issues I was having.

I got 50.00 back when he got my old one.

As far as the 09 parts I ordered yesterday they are in short supply.

There are 4 in the entire country, they are talking about next week at best
they are in New Jersey in a depot that has to ship to a distribution center first

Bummer.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I should have mine by the weekend.

Sean gave me the same price for the TB, $250 and then a $50 credit for the core. Since I was ordering a few parts at once, he was able to work out a deal with me.

Im still trying to get to the dyno tomorrow or friday before I drive to NY this weekend. Ive got to do an oil change before hand though. Ill should be able to install everything the weekend of the 20th, because the TB isnt ready yet, and Ill be working 13hr shifts from the 12th to the 29th, so I can only work on the car on the weekends. So Ill get to the dyno for results later this month.

The good thing with this is my car is a 6MT and E30 has an auto, with about the same mods. So the numbers shouldnt be skewed to much and you guys can see what the results are on both the auto and 6 speed.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

you have an e30??

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

90 e30 convertible, e30cabrio.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Interesting. Good to see

mrbustrbrown

can u do this on a 2g tl?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Its a J series, so I dont see why not.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

i like e30's..... mmmmmm

~750 eh... not bad...

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yea, the E30 M3 is my favorite M3 ever.

abptltypes02

^blah e46 m3 ftw lol

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

e46 is overweight & under powered.

abptltypes02

not with the HPF turbo kit =)

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

How come sean doesnt chime in here anymore? I havent seen a post from him on this forum for a long time. I figured he would say something, since obviously he is aware people are doing this mod from this forum. Oh well. Are there 2 plugs on the new butterfly valve thing, or is it just one plug, and we have to extend the wires from our valve. Do all the hoses that plug into the manifold stay the same?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

E30 will out-handle the E46 any day. Plus it looks better IMO.


I dont have the manifold in hand to comment on the butterflies.

When you say hoses, you mean vacuum hoses correct? They should be the same. Im not sure if I posted this before, but once I get the manifold I can comment on everything.

abptltypes02

iono about look better.... handeling performance...never drove one so i couldnt tell ya...driven many m3's and they are a beast of a car especially in the twisties but the e30's are wayyyyyyy uglier lol...

neways... cant wait to see how the manifold turns out... im sure with the cls and tls guys im sure we can run our stock TB even tho its not 80mm and still find sufficient gains

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yea, running the stock TB shouldnt be a problem, and saves you ~$200, but you wouldnt be able to exploit the full potential of the manifold.

Maybe Ill break the dyno runs down to:
3 runs as is
3 runs w/ TL manifold and stock TB
3 runs w/ TL manifold and ported TB

We'll see if the shop will give me a discount for the dyno time.

PS- E30s are still better.

Proof:



vs

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Ok, lets see:

e30:
Production 1986–1992
Assembly Regensburg, Germany
Garching, Germany
Rosslyn, South Africa
Body style(s) 2-door coupe
2-door convertible
Platform BMW E30
Engine(s) 2.3/2.5 L I4
Transmission(s) 5-speed manual
Wheelbase 101.1 in (2568 mm)
Length 171.1 in (4346 mm)
Width 66.1 in (1679 mm)
Height 53.9 in (1369 mm)
Curb weight :2866 lbs
Related BMW 3 Series

The first road-going version produced 195 bhp (145 kW; 198 PS) (catalyzed model). Evolution models (not sold in North America) continued with 2.3 liters but adopted revised exhaust-cam timing, increased compression along with the lack of a catalyst producing approximately 215 hp (160 kW). Later the Sport Evolution model production run of 600 (sometimes referred as Evolution III) increased engine displacement to 2.5 L and produced 238 hp (175 kW). 786 cabriolets were also produced, all by hand in BMW's Garching plant; at the time the 215 hp (160 kW) example was the world's fastest four-seat convertible.

e46
Production 2000–2006
Assembly Regensburg, Germany
Body style(s) 2-door coupe
2-door convertible
Platform BMW E46
Engine(s) 3.2 L I6
Transmission(s) 6 Speed Manual
6 Speed SMG Drivelogic
Wheelbase 107.5 in (2731 mm)
Length 2000-02: 176.8 in (4491 mm)
2003-05: 176.9 in (4493 mm)
Width 70.1 in (1781 mm)
Height Coupe: 54.0 in (1372 mm)
2001-02 Convertible: 53.7 in (1364 mm)
2003-05 Coupe: 53.9 in (1369 mm)
Curb weight Coupe: 3,415 lb
Related BMW X3
BMW 3 Series

# 333 hp (248 kW; 338 PS)
# Torque: 262 lb·ft (355 N·m)
# 0-100 km/h (62 mph) — 4.6 seconds for manual, 4.8 seconds for SMG, 5.1 seconds for cabriolet
# 1/4 Mile - Coupe: 13.3 sec @ 104 mph (167 km/h)[12], Convertible: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph (167 km/h) [13]
# Top Speed - Coupe: 155 mph (249 km/h) (electronically limited)[14], 176 mph (283 km/h) (delimited)[12]
# Skid Pad - Coupe: 0.89g[11], Convertible: 0.81g [13

Additionally, the e30 has a small light four cylinder putting much less weight up front and giving the car excellent weight distribution.

BigLizard

Let's keep this on topic please. Less BMW talk and more modification talk.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Until the manifolds arrive we don't have much to say about this mod. I wish mine was closer, looks like it will be Tuesday before I get mine, it's coming ground from Jersey, but I should be able to install it Wednesday morning, because I already have everything else.

Sorry for the digression.

Back to the thread already in progress.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Goddamn E30, you broke out the textbooks on that one

Ill be picking mine up saturday morning on my way out of town. Im going to take a look at everything this weekend and see how different the butterflies truely are. I may install it without having the ported TB just because I want it on. The other parts from P2R are being delivered tomorrow. So in all honesty if I cant detail the car monday, Ill be installing the manifold. This weekend is going to be hell though; leave VA for NY around 9am saturday, try to have as much fun as possible while there, go to the Yanks game sunday at 1p, then drive 6 hours back to VA sunday night. Im glad I am off from work monday.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I feel data is the best way to make a point.

Civic, please post detailed pictures as soon as you can, I think my main excitement is not knowing exactly whats going in in there!