hey all,

I was just thinking about this in school today during my digital graphics class and it really got me thinking.

Is it possible to make a 310-320+ CL without the use of NO2 or a supercharger????

Open board on this one

the closest figure i got was around 300-305 w/ the following taking into consideration the lowest gain in HP:

1. comptech headers: 25-30 HP
2. AEM CAI- 7-10/11 HP
3. Comptech exhaust(or any exhaust that adds hp): 2-4 hp
4. AEM Pulleys: 2-6 hp (might be wrong on max hp figure on this one)
5. Cam gears: extra 3-5 hp maybe (not sure if we can put cam gears on our cars yet)
6. Denso Plugs: Minor increase if any at all
7. Flywheel: this one took some thinking...i am not sure if it is possible to add a flywheel but if it is you might get anywhere from 10-20 if not 30 HP (at least that is the figures i got on a few other rides).

that is all i come up with for the mods you can do to a cl...if i am missing anything please feel free and add it and tell me how you think it would be possible to get 310-320+hp.....oh and a increase in torque

all advice welcomed

Later,
Dantes

 

Of course anything is...I think you'd have to go into some internal work...bolt-ons wouldnt just work.

 

I'm with KC. You're going to need to do some internal work. Bore spacing is wide enough to increase cylinder size a bit for natural aspiration. You could change the crank to increase stroke. New con rods and pistons would help too.

However, your focus should be on improving torque if you want to really impact performance. To do this, you need to increase stroke and compression ratio, or get some forced induction.

 

So basically the 3.5 Upgrade?

 

i would think so....but i am looking for a little more torque output for 5,000 dollars.


JDL: with your post i believe it seems like you are on the same page as eveyone else and going with the 3.5L if i am not mistaken sounds like the same process. Any ideas on getting better compresion rate and stroke other then the 3.5 upgrade?

I would love tech advice on this from jens, ssman, or any other engine savy member

In a nutshell: More hp and torque then the 3.5L upgrade, and ways to mess with the internals to get that power. I use "mess with" in a very loose term

later, dantes

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Dantes ]

 

well...I'm pretty sure you can't add a flywheel, but perhaps you could get a lighter one...I know that's what I did with my Porsche...

if you want to make more power, and you think $5,000 is too much to spend for the gains from the 3.5 conversion, then I'm sorry but you're out of luck...

some things that could be done, with the right amount of money are:
bore it out, stroke it, port and polish it, deck the head for increased compression, blueprint and balance it, get hotter cams, take out the power steering pump, advance the timing...that's all I can think of right now...

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Astroboy ]

 

I've heard about the 3.5 upgrade, but I'm not familiar with all that is involved. If you are going to the extent of removing the cylinder head (this is different than the header - header attached to the cylinder head), which you would do if you replaced the crank, you could look into a new head. Maybe something with slightly smaller valves to improve low-end grunt (normally you will lose a little high-end breathing, but the V-TEC can help here). I don't know if anyone is making after-market heads for the j32a1/2.

You can also replace the pistons and/or con-rods to increase compression ratio. Be sure to look at all of the parameters, as changing the crank will change compresion ratio and displacement. Keep compression under 11.5:1. Any higher, and you will be asking for trouble on the daily drive.

I believe the 3.5 conversion is just a crank - consider boring the cylinder as well. By increasing stroke (changing crank), you will generally decrease the max RPM's (redline will drop)(unless you get into some exotic materials and get a VERY well-balanced set-up).

By increasing bore some, stroke some, and compression ratio some, you can get the best of both worlds. You will have a COMPLETELY different engine at this point! Have fun!

Also, spending $5000 for torque is different than spending $5000 on horsepower - torque is much more valuable! You can build any POS to have high HP and no torque.

!!!THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: jdl75 ]

 

The 3.5 also has con rods i think...its jus taken from the 3.5 engine. And sure there are many replacements for displacement....FORCED INDUCTION AND NOS!

 

If they were true replacements, no one would build 5.0L engines. A properly built and tuned engine will give a much more useable, enjoyable and powerful performance curve than forced induction and NOS. Hey, I'm a fan of forced induction as well, but it isn't going to give our man the low end torque he is looking for - the engine geometry just isn't there. As for NOS, well, see me when the bottle runs out

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: jdl75 ]

 

Its called a Camaro.

 

The only engine work that I would consider is a some porting and polishing of the engine. ALl of the other stuff makes me way too nervous. A proper port and polish job should yield 20-30 hp but probably not much torque. Maybe the only other thing I would even consider is bumping up the compression by reducing the head gasket or a mild shaving.

Anyone have any idea how much this would cost?


But again, all of our ideas must be tempered by the fact that our trannies aren't doing so hot. This whole thing is really annoying b/c I find that I have been enjoying driving a bit less lately b/c I constantly think my tranny is going to go. Ho hum.

 

This is the only thing that can get you 300hp under $40k... unless you want to blow out your engine/tranny with NOS and unproven modifications. Don't even bother.

 

Thats the biggest BS i've ever heard...Not to get off the topic but no that is not the only thing that can make 300 hp under 40K. You can get many turboed cars for under 40k unless your talking just n/a.

 

That is one ugly ass car!!!

 

Yeah... but it'll kick our asses 0-60!

 

You didn't respond to my post...

 

i had about 320 hp in my cl so yeah its possible.......................with the 3.5 litre upgrade of course

 

Conjecture and untrue facts. My car is pushing 300 rear wheel now at $26k + 1k mods. And I haven't even put the "unproven" supercharger on yet. I'll have 450-460 rwhp, 410-420 rwtq with a modest 8 lbs. of boost, supercharging is perfctly safe with reasonable boost levels and a proper tune (as in not pushing the air/fuel envelope). Same goes for n2o, keep the shot reasonable and give it enough fuel.

Forced induction is not foolproof, if you are a fool, you will damage the motor. If you know what you are doing, and take care, it's not a problem.

 

Thank You...

 

scorpius: theere are many cars in the 300-325 range: camaro SS, firebirds trans, mustangs, s500, cls, and abunch of other nice cars, no doubt about it, but i don;t have on and this is the cl-board, if i post a topic about our car it isn't nessasary to start posting "yea it is called a camaro" and for 40K i would get a benz

mchtypes: i understand the 3.5 liter would be needed but i am trying to see other ways around that to get more torque gain between 15-35% gain. And i don;t have hte specs of the upgrade on my mind so i forgot the torque gain from it.

I guess everyone is right on getting to 320 or more by adjusting the internals of the engine, and i thank you for the knowledge and info.

anyone know the best places to get jobs like port and polish, advance timing, stroke, bore, and compression ratios adjusted????

later,
Dantes

thanks for he posts love this place

 

waiting for comptech supercharger to come out in jan-feb

 

300+hp on FWD? You'll spin for two seconds before you launch.

 

Hmmm...

I may be missing something, but your close to the magic HP number with just headers and AEM CAI (about 305 HP if you back compute using the best dyno sheet on the sig -- Mike's)

So, if you lighten the wheels -- go with 14 lb wheels, you will get about the equivalent of 10 hp across the entire rpm range. Or, if you want to work it another way, you can figure power-to-weight and figure that each 1lb of rotating weight you loose will equal about 6-10lbs of static weight loss.

You could also "try" a port and polish. Don't forget that we do have a torque converter that gets a little confused about lock-up at times, so getting some peak hp at the expense of hp a few thousand rpm lower would not be that wise (in my opinion)...

Finally, you could be a "pioneer" and try an Extrude Hone. I don't how much HP you would get.

link: http://www.extrudehone.com/


BTW – when you loose the weight vs. adding HP/Torque, you improve reliability as a bonus (Note: there are exceptions to the rule&#8230

 

Yeah - Don't go drillin' holes in $h1t!

 

drag radials. problem solved.