NeedForSpeed

i am about 65-70% sure I'm just going to use eibach spings with some kind of shocks. Probably Bilstein's? What are your reviews and suggestions for those of you who already are using eibach's? What are some good options (shocks, struts, and sways) to go along with the eibach springs? Please advise!

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: NeedForHandling ]

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: NeedForHandling ]

ruvz

Just got my Pro-Kits put in today....the drop is awesome and the ride has hardly been compromised.....

mcdanjw

I just left everything stock except the springs and wheels, and am quite happy with the handling improvement. You won't be disappointed!

technoid

It's a BIIG mistake to leave the OEM (factory) shocks in if you're replacing the springs and lowering your car. The cheesy Acura OEM shocks will wear out REALLY fast, as they can't perform as they were designed to do. If you can afford it, it's a good idea to replace the OEM shocks with really good adjustable shocks (like the Koni yellows). You can then custom tune your suspension to your liking.

------------------------------------

2001 3.2 CL-S
NAVI
Satin Silver
-
Comptech Headers
H&R OE Sport Springs
Koni Yellows
Comptech Anti-sways
Neuspeed Upper Strut Tie Bar
-
JL Audio 300/4, 250/1 monoblock
JL Audio 10W6 sub in custom enclosure
Boston Acoustics ProSeries 6.5's
Boston Acoustics RM9's

SmoothJyzz

Mine are fine. The drops is right and tight. The ride is a little more stiff than stock, but certainly not anything you'll complain about.

dee

dlew308

Define wearing out very fast. Like how soon.
I had 66000 miles on my stock shocks and RS*R springs without issues on a 98 prelude
I would agree to changing shocks if you can afford to.

*knocks on wood*

NeedForSpeed

It's a BIIG mistake to leave the OEM (factory) shocks in if you're replacing the springs and lowering your car. The cheesy Acura OEM shocks will wear out REALLY fast, as they can't perform as they were designed to do. If you can afford it, it's a good idea to replace the OEM shocks with really good adjustable shocks (like the Koni yellows). You can then custom tune your suspension to your liking.
------------------------------------
Yeh, am really leaning towards getting eibach springs and probably Bilstein shocks with some kind of sways slapped on there as well.

EricL

Well, I've ridden in a car with the Comptechs and I can feel the bouncy nature of the springs with the stock shocks. The higher spring rate will cause oscillations.

Don't believe me -- look up a book on control systems and look up "Critically Damped Transient Behavior.

To much shock -- the shock makes the ride too rough and gets worn out prematurely -- it is doing the work the spring should.

To little shock -- the shock is not doing enough work, and is not damping the spring out. However, the springs additional oscillations caused from bumps, dips, pot-holes, cause the shock to perform 3-10 times as many strokes as it would with a "matched" spring.

When a shock and spring are "matched", they will allow the car to react to transients and bumps with the minimum amount of "shock" transferred to the vehicle (and occupants). At the same time this helps keep the vehicle stable (have you ever seen a car with too much damping dialed in going over streets -- the handling goes to shit). When a spring and shock are matched, the response is "critically damped" and this gives the best handling AND ride quality!

NeedForSpeed

Thanks for the info. Do you think I should go with coilovers instead?

EricL

I didn't mean that coilovers are the only way to go.

Just that shocks and springs are an art to get done just right -- that's all...

BTW -- sometimes a manufacturer will put in a set of "too-hard" shocks, and a set of springs will make everything just perfect. But these days with Computer Assisted Engineering (CAE/CAD), I doubt you will find too many cases of this...

technoid

O.K. Read this --I forgot where it's from--it should help:

Springs and Shocks
" When considering suspension it is important to consider what it is used for. For most people, their car is their daily driver and do wish to retain some ride quality and usefulness. A 3-inch slam looks great but probably does not ride so great and definitely is not good for those above the Snow Belt. For most cars that just want looks and require a decent riding suspension I would probably recommend just getting a set of H & R springs.

They are not too stiff (ride softer than the Eibach) and are available in Sport and SofSport (OE) which both offer reasonable, modest drops. Keep in mind, however, that if your car is newer, the stock shocks will wear out quite a bit faster since they are trying to handle more of a load than they were designed to do. On older cars, your shocks may already be worn and thus may not handle the load to begin with but all in all the Japanese OEM shocks are quite decent and should last a reasonable amount of time.

For most enthusiasts, springs are great for looks but simply put, will not increase your handling all that much and may cause some loss of performance in quick transitional cornering loads as the stock shocks can not handle those increased loads that the springs put on them.

Now we move onto the topic of shocks. There is a great deal of aftermarket shocks for most imports and especially for Hondas. They are divided into 2 classes: adjustable and non-adjustable.

Non-adjustable aftermarket shocks offer an increased dampening ability over stock OEM shocks. They are usually lower priced items and a great choice for people on a serious budget who need shocks to go with their springs or have blown their stock shocks and want something a little more performance oriented.

There are many different kinds available but the more common are Bilstein, Tokico, and KYB. All are decent and are often priced lower than OEM shocks. Not a bad choice but many of you want the ability to tune the shocks both in terms of stiffening the rear to increase oversteer and also to be able to stiffen them greatly all around for competition use.

This brings us to adjustable shocks. Adjustable shocks are widely available for many import cars, although they usually cost at least twice as much as non-djustable shocks. This cost, however, is greatly worth it as most people like the ability to adjust them at the track for all out racing and still be able to soften them for the drive home with little effort. Also, many people with front wheel drive cars like to stiffen the rear more in order to ncrease oversteer at the track. Many times in autocrossing you'll want much greater oversteer than you would like on the street. These shocks allow you to tailor that to your liking.

Most of the lower priced adjustable shocks offer only rebound adjustment, which is the actual dampening factor or the force, which tried to revert the car back to the normal height after being compressed. A few offer both compression and rebound control, which also alters the amount of force it takes to compress the shock. Only a VERY select few offer the ability to control both these factors independently of each other and unless your car is an all out race car, there is little need for such adjustability
especially considering the cost. Among the rebound adjustable only shocks, KYB, Tokico, Koni are among the most common.

Among the shocks that alter both compression and rebound Tein and GAB are the most common. The Teins are also a short stroke shock and come with matching spring as well. GAB also offers a short stroke shock for some models however the ride quality tends to be on the stiffer side even in full soft mode.

Short stroke shocks are essentially available from a few higher quality manufacturers. They are designed to be used with lowering springs (and many times come with the matching spring). They essentially are just what their name implies-a shorter stroke shock. They realize that with the lower springs, the complete shock length is never utilized and thus ride quality and handling may suffer due to the shock being designed for stock ride height.

Tein, Apexi, Tanabe, and a few other companies solve this by designing a shock with a travel length between 20-30 mm shorter than stock. They then design the valve system and dampening characteristics accordingly. This allows better ride comfort along with better handling and less bottoming out over larger bumps.

A new trend in suspension gaining popularity in the US is coil-over suspensions. These are springs placed over a threaded spring perch that allows you to adjust ride height usually from 0-3 inches below stock ride height. These are available in kit form with Eibach ERS springs from Ground Control and Skunkworks, which need to be used with a suitable shock.

It should be noted that if the spring is too stiff and the shock cannot handle
it (many lower priced ones can not) then you get VERY poor ride quality and may make the car become unstable on uneven pavement. This could make the car potentially dangerous to drive in certain situations as the car will bounce and may have quirky handling characteristics. Once you add up the cost of one of these kits with an appropriate shock, you are almost at the cost of a decent true coil-over system.

This being the case I do not recommend either of these systems currently. A softer spring may bring the rate down to make it compatible with the right shock, however, the cost of figuring out what works with what is too high and I have so far been quite
unimpressed with the ride quality and handling of such setups.

True coil-overs come as a kit with matching shocks from many manufacturers including, Tein, GAB, Tanabe, Apexi, RSR, and Koni. With these kits, the threads are actually part of the shock body. With some of the higher quality coil-over kits, dual springs are part of the package.

There are main springs and also smaller helper springs which help keep the
main springs from rattling but more importantly, they help with load
transference under quick weight transfer such as a slalom. Some of the coil-overs are adjustable (either single or double-adjustable) and some are also of short stroke design. Many of these kits also offer a choice of spring rates and many come with linear main springs using the helper springs to soak up the smaller bumps."

In the final analysis, your decision depends on how much $$$ ya got. I am REALLY happy with my setup below:

------------------------------------

2001 3.2 CL-S
NAVI
Satin Silver
-
Comptech Headers
H&R OE Sport Springs
Koni Yellows
Comptech Anti-sways
Neuspeed Upper Strut Tie Bar
-
JL Audio 300/4 amp
JL Audio 250/1 monoblock amp
JL Audio 10W6 sub in custom enclosure
Boston Acoustics ProSeries 6.5's
Boston Acoustics RM9's

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: technoid ]

NeedForSpeed

Thanks for the info guys! How much were your Koni's and why didn't you go with coilovers instead, technoid? Thanks again for your info,it was a lot of help. I'm still pondering over wether go get shocks and springs separately or get coiovers. I really like the Eibachs but it seems like coilovers are the way to go. Please help !!!!!

technoid

I chose NOT to go to coilovers because of the expense, and because I really wanted to use the H&R OE sport springs to achieve a very modest lowering of my car (1" front and 1.5" back). I'm into handling, not "ricing." (Yes, I meant to say ricing, a word I coined. It means: "The deliberate act of turning one's $32,000 CL-S sports GT into a cheesy-looking ricer so you can run with the boy-racers.") Can you tell that I'm over 50?

I bought my Koni yellow's from AutoCarParts for $278 per pair. (I told ya they were a bit pricey, but worth it!) However, the H&R springs were really affordable at $169 for the set of 4.

I spent a week (with my back set removed) fine-tuning my newly-installed Koni's to match the H&R springs. (You simply turn a plastic knob that slips onto the top of the shock.) I achieved a really great balance of personalized comfort and handling for my everyday driving, and the beauty part is that if I ever wanted to take my car to the track or an autocross, it's a no-brainer to adjust the Knoni's to the appropriate stiffness setting.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: technoid ]

NeedForSpeed

Does Eibach springs and sways with Bilstein shocks sound ok? Or should I go with the Koni shocks? I just want to be able to take and hang the street corner at 30-40 mph a lot better. what do you guys think?

technoid

Helllo? Can you hear me? If you can afford the Koni's why the f@## would you want Bilsteins?? Is it because both Eibach and Bilstein are German words? We have a Japanese car, dude. (BTW, Koni's are made in Holland.) And the conventional wisdom of the Acura-CL.com forum--look at the "sigs"-- indicates that Comptech anti-sways are by far THE choice for our ride.

I can't imagine that you'd be unhappy with Eibach spings, Koni yellows, and the Comptech anti-sways. I'll personally refund your $$$ if you are.

------------------------------------

2001 Silver CL-S, NAVI
-
Comptech Headers
H&R OE Sport Springs
Koni Yellows
Comptech Anti-sways
Neuspeed Upper Strut Tie Bar
-
Stock (factory) "Alpine" head unit
JL Audio 300/4 power amp
JL Audio 250/1 monoblock sub power amp
JL Audio 10W6 sub in custom enclosure
Boston Acoustics ProSeries 6.5's
Boston Acoustics RM9's

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: technoid ]

EricL

Curious....

What did you set the Konis to in front and rear?

What is your current ride height front/rear with the Konis and springs (unloaded = no driver/passengers)?

Any comments on ride quality, etc?

technoid

From my visual perspective (sorry, I was too excited to do a precise "before and after" comparison and gather metrics), it seems like the H&R OE's lowered the car about 1" in the front and 1.5" in the back. I have a pretty good eye, and the overall look (with no human cargo) is that the centerline of the car is pretty much level or down by just a red c*@t hair over the rear wheels.

Inititially, when I first got the car back from the deranged "ricer" mechanic who did the work--and thought he heard 1 1/2 turns instead of 1/2 turn firmer than stock--my car handled like a go-cart and I felt that I was ready for Summit Point Raceway. Handling was unf**kin' believable, but my cojones were bouncing in my stomach all the time.

As what I had really wanted was more of a "country GT ride," I reset my rear Koni's to 3/8 turn firmer and fronts 1/2 turn firmer than factory stock settings. The ride is just a bit stiffer than stock, but the handling (remember I have Comptech anti-sways and a Neuspeed strut tie bar) was incredibly improved. Now, driving on the OEM Michelin rubber, I can safely double the speed limit going around most twisties and not wet myself. Granted, the suspension is asking for just a bit more firmness (say, 1/2 in back and 3/4 in front), but gimme a break! I use my car to commute to work, and I'm 52 years old, and I had really stiff Koni's back in'74 on my Datsun Z car, and...I've paid my dues!

Speaking of tires, how do ya like your Toyo's? I've only got 16K on my OEM Michelin's, but one of these days... Any recommendations for those of us who don't want to spend $1,000 or more on new rims, but want better performance than the OEM rubber? I used to run Michelin XGT-V4's on my previous Acuras, and loved 'em; but for our CL-S, Michelin makes the XGT-Z4 in just a 225/50-17 for our stock wheel. Now, how's that gonna look?

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: technoid ]

Red Rider

Alot of people here swear by the Toyos, me included. They are awesome. The grip is so good, i can't chirp them. I used to chirp the stock tires all the time. The more i drive them, the more i love them. By the way, i got mine for $160 each.

NeedForSpeed

What would be the best performance shocks and sways to go with the Eibach's?

Red Rider

I have the Comptech sways and HIGHLY recommend them. I plan on getting the Koni yellows, from research here and elsewhere i believe they are THE best.

SimTypeS

Eibachs and any of the for mentioned shocks would work fine. Bilstien, Koni, KYB... Heck, just get non-adjustable to save money. With that money, buy the Eibach anti-sway bar or the Comptech sway bar. Either would be great; probably the best on the market. If you really want the Eibachs, you can check out Ground Control coil-overs. Adjustable height, and ride, I believe.

technoid

Can you spell "Cost Effectiveness"???
Unless you do all of this suspension work yourself, if you've got the extra few hundred, spend it on the best shocks you can afford 'cause they get installed when you get your new springs installed (doh!). The incremental cost difference for upgraded shocks affects your handling and ride far more than upgrading the factory anti-sways. You can always do that later. To cheap out on the shocks on your $32,000 car is a big mistake.

Hollywood

I ended up getting the Eibach ProKit and I love the look and the ride. No rake!!!!

NeedForSpeed

Eibach springs, Koni/Bilstein shocks, and Eibach/Comptech sways. Do you think I can get all three for $1000-$1300 for just the parts? And what brands would you go with for with that figure.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: NeedForHandling ]

NeedForSpeed

Any word on when the Eibach performance springs are going to come out?