Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
#1
Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
Reference: http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...threadid=14482
I guess, I need to run an oil analysis on my CLS
BlackStone Labs Results II
Here are the results of my second oil test. This was done on Valvoline Synpower 5w-30, UR PULLIES ( ), using a fram filter (you can get a better filter for the same price, STP makes some good ones. I can thank bill99gxe for this bit of knowlege!).
Second Column are the averages. Here we go:
Aluminum 1 5
Chromium 1 1
Iron 4 13
Copper 9 10
Lead 2 2
Tin 0 0
Molybdenum 2 77
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 0
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 0 0
Boron 0 49
Silicon 5 12
Sodium 8 20
Calcium 1793 1600
Magnesium 10 439
Phosphorous 710 800
Zinc 851 941
Barium 0 1
Viscosity 55.1 54-56
Flashpoint 452 above 365
Fuel 0 0
Moisture 0 0
Anti-Freeze 0 0
Insolubles .2 average is .7
From this Blackstone concluded that i was experiencing almost no internal wear and could feel free to run my oil for 5-8k miles.
From comparing this and my previous test I concluded
1. Valvoline Synpower is pretty damned good
2. UR Pullies cause no preliminary wear. I'll do another test in a few months to keep you guys updated! For now it appear these pullies not only give kick ass gains, but with no side affects!
Here are the results of my second oil test. This was done on Valvoline Synpower 5w-30, UR PULLIES ( ), using a fram filter (you can get a better filter for the same price, STP makes some good ones. I can thank bill99gxe for this bit of knowlege!).
Second Column are the averages. Here we go:
Aluminum 1 5
Chromium 1 1
Iron 4 13
Copper 9 10
Lead 2 2
Tin 0 0
Molybdenum 2 77
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 0
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 0 0
Boron 0 49
Silicon 5 12
Sodium 8 20
Calcium 1793 1600
Magnesium 10 439
Phosphorous 710 800
Zinc 851 941
Barium 0 1
Viscosity 55.1 54-56
Flashpoint 452 above 365
Fuel 0 0
Moisture 0 0
Anti-Freeze 0 0
Insolubles .2 average is .7
From this Blackstone concluded that i was experiencing almost no internal wear and could feel free to run my oil for 5-8k miles.
From comparing this and my previous test I concluded
1. Valvoline Synpower is pretty damned good
2. UR Pullies cause no preliminary wear. I'll do another test in a few months to keep you guys updated! For now it appear these pullies not only give kick ass gains, but with no side affects!
#2
I'd be concerned with high tin and/or lead... but it looks good so far...
I have gotten two different stories on the bearing material... so...
But, lead is in there...
http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/sep93a.html
"...To remedy the problem, a team of Honda metallurgists/engineers created a highly seizure-resistant overlay on the bearing's sliding surface using a unique electrodepositing of tetra-methyl lead, Pb (h00). The highly oriented Pb surface has a composition of myriad minuscule pyramids, which possesses outstanding "wettability" or lubricant-retaining properties. Honda claims it has given a 30% or higher increase in the anti-seizure parameter, PV, than a surface with conventional deposits.
In August 1991, Soichiro Honda passed away. The Wako engineers' way of expressing homage to the late founder was to win the next Formula One race–the Hungarian Grand Prix of that year. The new highly oriented crystal bearings were used in the Honda V12 which propelled a McLaren racer to its long overdue victory.
The beauty of this bearing was that it was cost-competetive. It was subsequently adopted in the Legend's new longitudinal V6 engine..."
4 bangers are mentioned as well...
The other article was more up-to-date, but...
I lost the links to some other ones... and will have to look around some more.
I have gotten two different stories on the bearing material... so...
But, lead is in there...
http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/sep93a.html
"...To remedy the problem, a team of Honda metallurgists/engineers created a highly seizure-resistant overlay on the bearing's sliding surface using a unique electrodepositing of tetra-methyl lead, Pb (h00). The highly oriented Pb surface has a composition of myriad minuscule pyramids, which possesses outstanding "wettability" or lubricant-retaining properties. Honda claims it has given a 30% or higher increase in the anti-seizure parameter, PV, than a surface with conventional deposits.
In August 1991, Soichiro Honda passed away. The Wako engineers' way of expressing homage to the late founder was to win the next Formula One race–the Hungarian Grand Prix of that year. The new highly oriented crystal bearings were used in the Honda V12 which propelled a McLaren racer to its long overdue victory.
The beauty of this bearing was that it was cost-competetive. It was subsequently adopted in the Legend's new longitudinal V6 engine..."
4 bangers are mentioned as well...
The other article was more up-to-date, but...
I lost the links to some other ones... and will have to look around some more.
#3
Re: Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
Reference: http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...threadid=14482
I guess, I need to run an oil analysis on my CLS
Reference: http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...threadid=14482
I guess, I need to run an oil analysis on my CLS
#4
They aren't gonna wear your engine out in the 5k miles you've had them. They could wear it out over a long term amount of time. This is why people who don't care and will be ditching their car in a year or two can go right ahead and slap on those UR pulleys without concern. It's only a long-term thing for us who plan to be 100k+ milers.
#5
Originally posted by JRock
They aren't gonna wear your engine out in the 5k miles you've had them. They could wear it out over a long term amount of time. This is why people who don't care and will be ditching their car in a year or two can go right ahead and slap on those UR pulleys without concern. It's only a long-term thing for us who plan to be 100k+ milers.
They aren't gonna wear your engine out in the 5k miles you've had them. They could wear it out over a long term amount of time. This is why people who don't care and will be ditching their car in a year or two can go right ahead and slap on those UR pulleys without concern. It's only a long-term thing for us who plan to be 100k+ milers.
#7
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
How does the pulley affect the harmonic balance of the crank?
How does the pulley affect the harmonic balance of the crank?
So either you get this:
1) Crank piles up from the extra vibration (if AEM is right).
2) You just get more engine vibration (if UR is right).
My friend reads the F-Body forums (Camaro, T/A) and one user snapped his crank by over-tightening the alternator! Hearing that freaks me out, so I'm sticking with 1, above.
But, to each his own.
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#10
I'm thinking if you tighten it to the right amount and give it some play to vibrate back and forth without hitting the laternator pulley hard then yo ushould be fine... it's kind of like a spinning centrifuge, if you weight it equally on all sides then it won't vibrate at all. Basically when something like the guy with the alternator pulley cracking happens it's b/c of poor quality in workmanship. If the pulley was perfectly weighted then most likely it would not vibrate at all.
#12
Re: Re: Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
Originally posted by Wires
I wouldn't think the pulley's would contribute to engine bearing wear. I'd be more concerned about a crank fracture (which wouldn't have any advance warning.).
I wouldn't think the pulley's would contribute to engine bearing wear. I'd be more concerned about a crank fracture (which wouldn't have any advance warning.).
I've got some books on electric motor design and one of the issues that is clearly addressed is bearing wear from torsional and balance issues..
If you have a completely homogenous bar of material, you can sometimes keep the twist from causing any lateral movement.
Think of a sway bar (torsion bar) and the normal thought is that they only twist... well, depending on how that perfectly round bar was made (how even the grain is) you can find it bowing and bending a bit. Any ADDITIONAL bearings would get some side loading.
Now back to the crank -- it is not going to be perfectly homogenous AND it has a structure that looks like a bent paper clip. Think about this: when you twist one end of crank relative to the other end, it wants to apply a side load on its bearings (this in addition to the force of the explosion and any out-of-balance forces).
So, perhaps some of the people out there are saying the bearing load is very small. It depends! To know would require some good tests and instrumentation (and it isn’t cheap). However, if you can ever manage to grab a paper clip and bend it into a shape to simulate 1 crank throw (a one cylinder engine) with two main bearings, you can twist one end and see the applied torque/twist turn into a lateral movement; this is a side load.
Now to address the issue of "oil analysis"... Can it prove or disprove that a crank or bearing is going to fail? I'm not sure about this. OTOH, if Nashau had gotten some really horrific tin/lead readings and the cars with UR pullies were only seeing a lot of “wear”, this wouldn’t be reassuring. So, at the very minimum, the oil test, isn’t going to hurt, and at least would show that serious damage is not being done and depending on the type and degree of torsional vibration, a pulley mod can have wildly varying effects on an engine durability. IF nothing else, it seems to be worth doing to monitor the engine condition, and would certainly show if anything really nasty was going on…
RE: the crank failure – yes, the failure do to the nature of the vibrations is very similar to chaos theory (non-linear dynamics) in some respects. It is possible to keep increasing the stress up to a point, and then have a catastrophic failure with minimal warning.
#14
To blackstone labs:
==============
Hi,
I own a 2001 Acura CL Type-S Auto. I have some bolt-on aftermarket performance mods. Since, now I am now close to 43,000 miles, I am due for an engine oil and Automatic transmission fluid change at 45,000 miles.
So please could you send me Free Oil Collecting kits for engine oil and the ATF?
Thanks.
==============
Hi,
I own a 2001 Acura CL Type-S Auto. I have some bolt-on aftermarket performance mods. Since, now I am now close to 43,000 miles, I am due for an engine oil and Automatic transmission fluid change at 45,000 miles.
So please could you send me Free Oil Collecting kits for engine oil and the ATF?
Thanks.
#15
Originally posted by Wires
The UR pulley REPLACES the harmonic damper which is supposed to stop nasty vibrations in the engine. It's a two sided debate. AEM says removing it is VERY bad, UR says no long term effects have ever been seen by removing the damper.
The UR pulley REPLACES the harmonic damper which is supposed to stop nasty vibrations in the engine. It's a two sided debate. AEM says removing it is VERY bad, UR says no long term effects have ever been seen by removing the damper.
#19
Re: Re: Re: Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
Originally posted by EricL
Now back to the crank -- it is not going to be perfectly homogenous AND it has a structure that looks like a bent paper clip. Think about this: when you twist one end of crank relative to the other end, it wants to apply a side load on its bearings (this in addition to the force of the explosion and any out-of-balance forces).
RE: the crank failure – yes, the failure do to the nature of the vibrations is very similar to chaos theory (non-linear dynamics) in some respects. It is possible to keep increasing the stress up to a point, and then have a catastrophic failure with minimal warning.
Now back to the crank -- it is not going to be perfectly homogenous AND it has a structure that looks like a bent paper clip. Think about this: when you twist one end of crank relative to the other end, it wants to apply a side load on its bearings (this in addition to the force of the explosion and any out-of-balance forces).
RE: the crank failure – yes, the failure do to the nature of the vibrations is very similar to chaos theory (non-linear dynamics) in some respects. It is possible to keep increasing the stress up to a point, and then have a catastrophic failure with minimal warning.
I don't understand how the pully would contribute to crank problems, unless the overall balancing of the crank is in part dependent on the OEM pully design to add final balancing. I would be shocked if it is.
Also, the bearing issue should also not a problem if the UR Pully is properly balanced rotationally and dimentionally/cross-sectionally.
Thoughts?
RUF
#20
Re: Re: Re: Re: Oil Analysis after UR Pulleys is installed... (good news)
Originally posted by RUF87
Eric,
I don't understand how the pully would contribute to crank problems, unless the overall balancing of the crank is in part dependent on the OEM pully design to add final balancing. I would be shocked if it is.
Also, the bearing issue should also not a problem if the UR Pully is properly balanced rotationally and dimentionally/cross-sectionally.
Thoughts?
RUF
Eric,
I don't understand how the pully would contribute to crank problems, unless the overall balancing of the crank is in part dependent on the OEM pully design to add final balancing. I would be shocked if it is.
Also, the bearing issue should also not a problem if the UR Pully is properly balanced rotationally and dimentionally/cross-sectionally.
Thoughts?
RUF
The damper is supposed to absorb a bunch of these transient vibrations.
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