New Intercooler Core
07-23-2004, 09:14 PM
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New Intercooler Core
I got the newly designed intercooler core in yesterday and I couldn't be happier with the results. Even though it is a little smaller it may turn out to be more efficient, still with no measurable pressure drop. And the welds on this things are incredible and on aluminum. 
A little background first. The first unit, the one on my car, fits fine under the hood but hit the factory strut bar (which I still need to fix or make my own). Plus, it gives little hood clearance. I haven't hit it yet but I still worry especially considering this will go on 5AT vehicles which do not have the extra engine mounts that my 6MT has. So a new core design was needed.
This new one has the factory hood clearance. But the design of it is better than what I am using. It is better in two ways. The actual design is better for flow with the balanced entrance. And the core design is better for heat transfer. It is also still over-sized for the application allowing for up to about 600 CFM. Or more than we would flow with this blower.
For anyone who has read about forced induction knows who Corky Bell, this unit is coming from Bell Intercoolers. The gentleman I worked with on the design is Gerhard Schruf, his quick bio is below.
I can't express how grateful I was to work with Gerhard. He obviously has the credentials but was also a pleasure to work with. He was patient and listened to my requests as we worked through the design.
Anyway, the images are below. The red caps are just protective during shipping. The three ports on the back are for vacuum fittings. The ports on the left and right of the main core are the water inlet/outlet. And of course the large cap to the rear right is the charge air inlet.
BTW, this thing should polish up nicely.
A little background first. The first unit, the one on my car, fits fine under the hood but hit the factory strut bar (which I still need to fix or make my own). Plus, it gives little hood clearance. I haven't hit it yet but I still worry especially considering this will go on 5AT vehicles which do not have the extra engine mounts that my 6MT has. So a new core design was needed.
This new one has the factory hood clearance. But the design of it is better than what I am using. It is better in two ways. The actual design is better for flow with the balanced entrance. And the core design is better for heat transfer. It is also still over-sized for the application allowing for up to about 600 CFM. Or more than we would flow with this blower.
For anyone who has read about forced induction knows who Corky Bell, this unit is coming from Bell Intercoolers. The gentleman I worked with on the design is Gerhard Schruf, his quick bio is below.
Gerhard Schruf has spent the vast majority of his engineering career working in the field of forced induction. Having developed turbocharged engines for marine, industrial, street and racing applications, with power outputs ranging from 50 hp to 40,000 HP. Gerhard was also instrumental in the initial development of the unique, pressure-wave-supercharger, the COMPREX. A highlight in his career was working with Gilles Villeneuve and the Ferrari Formula One team, providing forced induction expertise during the teams early ventures into the turbocharged era. As an author and co-author of several SAE-Publications his focus always was on performance, but in conjunction with fuel-economy and exhaust emissions for street applications.
Anyway, the images are below. The red caps are just protective during shipping. The three ports on the back are for vacuum fittings. The ports on the left and right of the main core are the water inlet/outlet. And of course the large cap to the rear right is the charge air inlet.
BTW, this thing should polish up nicely.
07-23-2004, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
thats a WILD intercooler! 
i'm used to seeing just a really big rectangle, that is quite the design, you will have to let us know gains 
i'm used to seeing just a really big rectangle, that is quite the design, you will have to let us know gains The gains were about 50 WHP with the additional boost it allowed to be run.
07-23-2004, 11:59 PM
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someday, it will be mine. 
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07-24-2004, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Polish it Steve!!! 
07-24-2004, 12:05 AM
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BTW, as mentioned in another thread. I will probably end up with a 50 - 75 HP nitrous shot.
As Ramanan knows, I was thinking (and am still) converting to a turbo. However, this SC is more than enough power for everyday driving for me and I like the way it responds. But I would never shy away from having more. So a little juice may be in order.
Especially since the IC front plate can accommodate a fogger system nicely and that I can have the E-Manage control it.
Hrmm, blown motor in the future :lookingintocrystalball:
As Ramanan knows, I was thinking (and am still) converting to a turbo. However, this SC is more than enough power for everyday driving for me and I like the way it responds. But I would never shy away from having more. So a little juice may be in order.
Especially since the IC front plate can accommodate a fogger system nicely and that I can have the E-Manage control it.
Hrmm, blown motor in the future :lookingintocrystalball:
07-24-2004, 12:05 AM
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Steve once i get my blower with the High Boost Pulley i am definitely in the market for the intercooler.... will message ya once I am ready to purchase
07-24-2004, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
There is one small step before this though.
after i go 12.5 on n2o it will be time to add boost.
07-24-2004, 12:38 AM
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i've got 50k more miles of free replacements.
07-24-2004, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
BTW, as mentioned in another thread. I will probably end up with a 50 - 75 HP nitrous shot.
07-24-2004, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chemmech
How will this be mounted, orientated, on the manifold? Just a thought, with the IC and a turbo, would the lag be alot less than with a front mount IC?
The boost response with a SC or turbo would be enhanced with this little of plumbing/ volume to fill.
07-24-2004, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike
Just so happens that I have a Nitrous systems dry kit for sale. 60 shot w/bottle warmer. Make you a good deal on it if you're interested.
.... glad I am waiting....
07-24-2004, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
BTW, as mentioned in another thread. I will probably end up with a 50 - 75 HP nitrous shot.
As Ramanan knows, I was thinking (and am still) converting to a turbo.
As Ramanan knows, I was thinking (and am still) converting to a turbo.
07-24-2004, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty
That must of been a real milestone in your life to work with a MASTER like Schruf
But to top it all off, he was SOOO nice to work with.
07-24-2004, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JaDia4
Blown and sprayed? Wow! If you do TC what kit will you be using? Developing your own?
As for the tubo, if I had gone that route it would mostly be custom excluding the turbo choice. Why go through the effort of finding a turbo when allmotor and BlueCLS6 have already picked a winner.
07-27-2004, 07:40 AM
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Just FYI, I should have new pictures of the complete assembly soo. The machine shop was further along than I had originally hoped. They just have the base plate to machine and then it is on to welding. 
07-27-2004, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by av6ent
Very COOL. So an order can be placed within next month and the turnaround time is still 8 weeks or longer?
I still need to find a local AV6 to test fit the J30A1 base plate on it.
07-27-2004, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
Yes, it will still be about that long. I can't stock these items as it wouldn't make sense so each is built to order. The lead time may be a little less but I would rather plan on it taking longer.
I still need to find a local AV6 to test fit the J30A1 base plate on it.
I still need to find a local AV6 to test fit the J30A1 base plate on it.
And Serge and Tony can use the J32A2 one since they have CLS heads and manifold.
08-15-2004, 02:16 PM
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Hey, I don't know to much about IC's, but I know I need one. Whats the difference between the Liquid-Air IC, and the Air-Air IC? Whats better, how do they both work?
I think the Air-Air, is just the IC, and you just connect to TB and the S/C discharge, but the liquid-air, there is something else that I am missing?? Fill me in.
I think the Air-Air, is just the IC, and you just connect to TB and the S/C discharge, but the liquid-air, there is something else that I am missing?? Fill me in.
damm car parts im going to end up living in the acura hotel!!! lol
08-15-2004, 03:13 PM
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I want to see pics of the Intercooler POLISHED!!! 
08-15-2004, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by STNG2NV
Hey, I don't know to much about IC's, but I know I need one. Whats the difference between the Liquid-Air IC, and the Air-Air IC? Whats better, how do they both work?
I think the Air-Air, is just the IC, and you just connect to TB and the S/C discharge, but the liquid-air, there is something else that I am missing?? Fill me in.
I think the Air-Air, is just the IC, and you just connect to TB and the S/C discharge, but the liquid-air, there is something else that I am missing?? Fill me in.
A liquid/air system cools the charge air with water (or a coolant mixture) which is seperate from the engine's cooling system. Since this can fit under the hood thus having less volume to fill it is better suited for roots style blower applications. This requires a water flow system which has a pump and a heat exchanger for the coolant making it more complex.
For more details on both, here is a good link:
http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp