scalbert

That increased torque at around 2000 - 2500 is from converter flash when they got on the throttle. That area should be removed from analysis.

You do have the torque range correct but as you can see what a malfunctioning IMRC actuator does to the curve. It should have a small dip starting at 3500 revs and then pick back up to the same level by 4k revs. Here it drops and never comes back up.

Pappy

I'm also very curious to see what those gains are. I look forward to your comments on that comparison.

Pappy

I believe it was available for the S2000. The Icebox is currently being redesigned for the CL-S in some areas due to sound at idle. It should be available in January according to Deansbluesi.

scalbert

In addition, Saturday the 14th I will be testing the stock box less the resonator along with my custom ice box. This should also provide additional founded information to dispell or support some of the speculation.

But as shown. there is no loss of power at any point with a CAI. I beleive the question is how much can ultimately be gained (over the stock box without the resonator) with a CAI similar to an open style like AEM, etc or an Ice Box like Comptech.

jimcol711

good luck getting a valid test on both of those set ups, unless you plan on letting the engine cool down to the EXACT temps before the dyno run, your results will be worthless....the CL-S dynos lower if the temps are higher, we have all seen the temple of VTEC dyno of the 6 speed right??? where they dyno the same car 2 times with NO changes between runs and the second time it dynos 4 HP less than the first....in case you forgot, they attribute this drop in power to the temperater...so when dealing with your "test" of mods that give such a small increase in HP to begin with, your test results will SURELY be skewed unless you give the car at least an hour or 2 between runs to get an equal starting temperater, etc. if you dont do this, the margin of error on the temperature issue will most likely be MORE than the actual gain you get in either direction. so dont come on here showing dynos between your stock airbox-less resonator vs. your custom intake unless you do the test properly, if the dynos are done one after the other, youre second dyno will be off....and in a matter such as the difference between 2 methods of air induction, 2-4 hp can be ALL the difference in the world

scalbert

Although it is never good to have a changing ID the impact is varies for different applications. Depending on how much influence the "accordion" tubing has on the center flow path will decide the total loss through this pipe. If the tubing has a large enough ID, at the lowest point, the impact may be negligible. But if the lower peak extends in further than say the throttle body inlet then the impact may be significant.

But it does bring up an interesting issue as to how much impact is has on our application. I will try to test this at my upcoming dyno session and will report back the results.

This is key and also relates back to the previous question/remark. Turbulent flow decreases flow volume. Many things can contribute to this such as the piping as mentioned above, the filter element, the path changes, etc.

The problem I can see in how the stock box could affectively decrease flow is in the design it’s self. There is no common flow path anywhere including the point it enters the tube. After passing through the filter there will be varying velocities due to different flow path lengths. But how much of an impact will this make would be minimal IMO but still measurable.

That would be a bit harder since the stock box outlet is oval and not round so it would be harder to adapt to it.

Cost, common parts and probably the most significant, it allows plenty of flex when the engine slightly rotates on its mounts.

scalbert

Geez, what do you take me for...

The laptop will be hooked up displaying the actual ECT and IAT values in order to maintain consistency for the comparisons. All runs will be done at the 180 degree F idle temp my car currently operates at with the Mugen T-Stat and Fan Switch. There will be no cooling down; they will be run at the normal operating conditions so as to simulate real world conditions.

Well this is excluding one run where I will disconnect the fan switch to get the temps over 200 in order to verify this TOV claims.

I live daily in the Test and Measurement world and know the value of controlling the conditions. This is for everything from a jet engine dyno to a high speed laser displacement application. I would not undertake this task without going at it in as well conceived as possible. The only factor I can't control is the weather but it only takes a few minutes for the swap...

jimcol711

good, im glad to see you plan on doing a very accurate test, ill be looking forward to the results!

lou_RENAMED

Scalbert you can also dyno the car lets say three times each for every different setup. That way you can start working with the average of the three runs which is an excellent indication of which setup is actually producing the greatest gains. I am still with Zapata that the Ice-Box is the best.... even over the stock box simply because it shortens the length the filtered air has to travel before entering the throttle. Also its made of plastic which everbody knows is not a good conductor of heat compared to aluminum and the silly by-pass is not necessary. The only downside will be the noise difference compared to the AEM roar but who knows it may even sound like a deeper roar at Vtec

tuRb0mikEy

ahahahah all the stupid ass claims got shot down so now all he can say is a weak "good luck"

scalbert a flow bench test would be cool

scalbert

If I get back up to Calsonic any time soon may be they would let me use their bench...

scalbert

Precisely, which is the reason I am renting the dyno by the hour. I expect to be on the rollers for about 1 - 1.5 hours with the laptop hooked the entire time making logs of the pulls.

I will be averaging the values from each pull for a good comparison.

Ah, plastic isn't that great when you can insulate the aluminum. I do like mine although I can't say it makes more power, that is what the dyno is for.

lou_RENAMED

Very nice indeed looks similar to the Ice Box....and I see that its short I wouldn't be suprised if your setup will produce equal to or better gains than Comptech's. What kind of setup are you using for directing the Cold Air towards the Box is it similar to the IceBox and are you experiencing any unwanted sounds like the resonance that Comptech is claiming?.... if not don't post any more pictures and get yourself a good patent lawyer.

Why did you keep the accordian looking stock piece wouldn't a straight even pipe creates less turbulence? Also I think the filter might be too large for the box that may counter any possible gain (less air circulation in the box)?????

JSuppi

Doesn't the resonating of the intake (doesn't it make the most annoying hummmmm??) without the intake resonator?

scalbert

The entire area below the filter is open. I removed the plastic cover from behind the headlight which further opened the area up. I also cut the back of the cover where the '01/'02 road lamps would sit. This allows for plenty of airflow into the chamber.

Yes, there is a significant humming that I am waiting to address. I am using a 9 Inch filter which when I put on my older AEM K&N filter, 6 Inch, the humming was reduced by about 75%. I assume that the shorter filter allowed for the sound waves to collide and cancel each other out. I plan on trying a shorter filter after I dyno the car, no sense in wasting the money until dyno results show a gain.

This humming is not just the engine; there is something more to it. While parked, if I jab the throttle and get the revs up to about 3k and let off, as the revs drop the humming it is not there. As the revs near 1500 revs it is like flipping a switch and the humming starts again. I am beginning to suspect it may be related to the EGR valve and plan to test this. One other possibility would be the EVAP system. But in either case I am unsure if a fix could be found or if just a shorter filter would be enough.

The nice part is the sound, not the humming at idle. When at part throttle the sound is certainly a deeper tone possibly amplified by the box as I had the open AEM intake before. Part throttle jabs are rewarded with a serious intake sound that explodes as the throttle is completely open.

Why did I keep the stock tube, simplicity for testing purposes. But I will be getting a straight piece for the dyno tests also to see what affects the stock tube has on restricting power.

There is actually a decent amount of room around the filter. But as mentioned, I will be changing it if the dyno proves it makes power.

jimcol711

nope, not at all, if anything, it sounds sorta like a CAI but not quite as loud in VTEC as a CAI.....also, it cuts down on all the hissing that a CAI gives you at idle.

scalbert

Two walls on mine have the pink foam insulation sandwich'd by thin sheet aluminum, so no real sound deadening. I'll be doing further work on it to see how to limit the sound without limiting flow, I just want to get it on the dyno first.

No, I do not know anyone who have one of the box intakes, would be interesting to see how other countered this issue.

lou_RENAMED

hey guys just for comparison reasons I took out the AEM and installed the stock intake without the resonator. Let me tell you I couldn't tell the difference besides the sound. Performance wise it felt the same could be because my filter was slightly dirty with the AEM but it only had 5K miles on it. I also didn't have the K&N filter with the stock box I used stock filter which had 11K miles on it. Overall I do think you might get slightly better performance with the CAI but very little. Also I cut out the opening behind the fog light covers to let more cold air come in so that might help either way.

scalbert

I would hope you could not feel a difference. It takes a minimum of 5% and upwards of 10% to really feel a difference. This change will give you about 3%. It really can only be measured on a dyno.

One interesting story from many years ago; a very well known GN tuner made some changes to his car and took it to the track. During the run he felt that power was down and the changes were ineffective. However, when he got his slip he actually ran the fastest time yet by several tenths.

What occurred is that the torque curve flattened giving less sensation but providing consistent acceleration. Point being that feel is not a good indicator. Testing on a dyno and at the track is paramount.