mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

See my other post about what happened before I got to the dyno. This day didn't start off good and got worse.

So I go a get 5.5 gallons of 100 octane unleaded to help out with Map B on the chip.

I get to the dyno. Strap everything up and do the first pull in Map A. Only 220whp. Do it again, same result.

Switch to Map B. Nothing changes, still right around 220whp.

So I un-install the Uni-Chip and go back to the stock ECU. This time I put down 222whp. I'm actually losing power with the Uni-Chip.

Up until Vtech the chip makes more power, about 2 whp. Once Vtech kicks on I lose about 2 whp. I'M NOT HAPPY AT ALL!

The Uni-chip runs the car very lean. I'm not getting any fuel. On the stock ECU I'm running rich, espcially in Vtech; something i'm sure the stock ECU does as a safety precaution.

Has anyone else used a dyno other than the one at Uni-chip? Right now I'm feeling pretty ripped off. I paid $600 for a loss of 2 whp.

Scalbert, allmotor, I need help!

They couldn't email me the dyno yet so I took a picture of the print out. Blue is stock, red is Uni-chip:

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Really bad news... something is totally messed up!

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Nashua_Night_Hawk

It seems that you need to free some restriction in the intake system!

Chemmech

Is your air filter clogged?

typeR

Imrc????

Jonesi

Suggestion Head to the track..!!

cmark

wow, that's disappointing....hope you figure out what's wrong

Nitin

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure everything was plugged in and all those little tabs were locked in place? It was a bitch for me to get the far 2 plugs out of the ECU because of the little space we have to work with. You left the last oem plug in the ECU alone right? That's all I can really think of right now. I can tell a difference in my car once I'm at about 4.5k rpm's and above. But really nothing at all below that.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

First, what was the temp of the coolant?

cody02

CLS2001_97124

Hmm. I don't want to make an assumption yet, because there's just too many different factors about the car including the Unichip that is causing you to not see any gains at all.

And I would not consider 2 hp a loss, because I've seen a bigger difference in dyno numbers from back to back runs. Can you provide us with more info on this dyno itself, plus the gear it was dyno'd in?

Also what is the dyno environment setup like. Any good size fans blowing at the motor, or just some regular floor fans I've seen places use?

Again, there's many things to consider from this dyno besides the Unichip.


Also, I would give them a call, its only 3:30pm right now. They are still open.

cody02

same here below 4500 nothing.... didn't want to believe it, for $600... I'm not impressed at all

EricL

Steve:

Can you call:

Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll Free 866.643.7400; 503.640.7465 --> fax number

I spoke with him, can you call there?

I don't know where you physically dyno'd your car, but unless the shop has a hookup with them, they won't be able to "tweak" the maps to your car, and there seem to be a lot of adjustments.



Here is the list I got (via phone) of dyno operators that "support" or have the "interface" software to "tweak" the chip:

FFT Engineering 781 264-2905 Mass.

Fastline Motorsports 860 693-6251 Connecticut

Speedtech Inc. 203 229 0590 New York

I inquired about Maryland and he said no dyno guy there that does the CL/CLS.


As far as something "obvious," you might want to check the air filter (as previously mentioned). However, I'm not sure why that would move your A/F to lean on map2.

Since Jack claims that there is not "adjustments" that are provided to "end users" and unsupported shops, can you check the air filter and see about calling him up.

Why not go to the source -- hey?

EricL

Guesswork without the torque curve. But, yes, that and aircleaner are the easy items to inspect.

allmotor_2000

Running lean might increase power... but the Unichip has direct control of the injectors (doesn't it?)... they should be able to program any/all combinations! This is testament to the fact that you can't 'buy' a pre-programmed chip for a car... it has to be tuned for a specific application.

I'd get Unichip to reflash/reprogram real-time for you... not sure where you live and might not be logistically possible.

allmotor_2000

Do you have an adjustable FPR? If Unichip programmed their ECU for a certain fuel-pressure.. your car might be 5-8psi less?!?

CLS2001_97124

Also, could your 100+ gas be bad gas? I've see this happen before. I say if you can go dyno Map A which is what everyone paid for, with regular 91-93 pump gas, then that result would provide a better picture. As we all know that just by running higher octane gas, does not give you more power, so I don't know if it would have affected Map A's dyno at all.

J.T.'s 3.2CL

Wow that sucks. Didn't see that coming.

Chopsie

Damn man. This new is very shocking.

typeR

no reason to jump to conclusions yet...

scalbert

Most has already been mentioned but I'll reiterate.

We really need to see the torque curve to help identify any potential problems like the IMRC. But a quick check of the HP curve doesn't appear to show this.

When I tuned a TL-S with the E-Manage (the same method employed by the Unichip) I was able to see a similar event. Leaning it out a couple of points didn't make squat of difference on its own. Which is why I suspect that the Unichip was achieving the majority of its power through timing changes.

First question, do you have the Mugen T-Stat and Fan Switch??

Secondly, I would have to agree that the fuel may be suspect. That would make quite a bit of sense. If you are advancing timing and have crap fuel your ECU will detect the knock, pull timing and give you even less power. It wouldn't be the first time that what was coming out of the pump is not what it is labeled as. One benefit to buying a 5 gallon drum of VP103, it is sealed and you can be assured of what you are getting.

Get some different fuel and retest. Also, obtain the torque curve and let us take a gander.

scalbert

No, it intercepts the MAP and makes adjustments to it just like the E-Manage can along with the VAFC. The big difference is that it also intercepts the crank position sensor which is how it can advance timing.

EricL

I could see how the crummy gas would pull timing and completely negate any gains from timing, but what about the lean-out? Wouldn't you figure that the unit would try and boost the fuel-air (towards rich) to drop the EGTs?

And, I realize that this is predicated on some "general" thinking, but seems strange that it would go lean. I believe Jack said that shot for around 13:1 during open loop/WOT (N/A applications).

BTW, he said that he only allowed certain dyno shops to have the gear to update the maps. Do you have the interface software to update the tables? Or of other members that do?

scalbert

I was assuming that they coupled the advanced timing with leaning it out to get the gains they acheived. This was just speculation and the amount did seem excessive but we have little to go on. The 12.1:1 A/F number at WOT is close to what I saw on a TL-S with basic bolt-on's. So I would I would expect them to lean it out.

However, without being able to see some data on what advancing the timing does with these cars I can't say for sure.

No interfaces or software for me. I would love to have it though as it appears this unit is very configurable. I just have the E-Manage software which is available to anyone.

BC

I'm not likin' the sound of this.

blader

I know its hard for a dyno to lie, but this doesnt seem right to me.

Upon driving the car all day and not even putting that many miles on it, its gotten better and better as the day went on. I know its not just me. I had a good friend of mine who's driven my car before on numerous occasions drive it tonight and he said he could immediately feel the difference.

Car feels much smoother and peppier, throttle response feels much improved, car feels like it moves with less effort and isnt straining even when WOT. It feels different to me even at low to midrange RPM, and can certainly be felt through VTEC, which is not what your graph shows. Something is definetly wrong there .. because I know I'm feeling it.

If the weather is good on Tuesday I can hit Atco Raceway (PM if anyone wants to meet me there) and get some track slips.

BTW I have CT icebox, CT headers, CT exhaust, Mugen t-stat, rad cap, fan switch.

typeR

let us know

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for not getting back to this post sooner. I went out to the ball game tonight with some friends. I dyno'd the car in 3rd gear. I do no have the Mugen T-stat or any of those mods yet. Even if I had "bad gas" wouldn't I see gains from the stock ECU to the Uni-chip??!?!

I could check my air filter, although if it is dirty I think it would restrict air and make me run rich, not lean. The uni-chip is currently disconnected. It did feel faster when I was driving it on the street, although this may be a misconception because it was slow after the ECU reset when I installed the chip. I emailed Todd and told him I wasn't pleased. I don't know exactly what to do from here.

blader

Will do. Anyone in NJ up for meeting me there?

I would say just wait for him to email you back and see what he has to say. I'm sure there is a valid explanation for this .. I can't imagine whats wrong because I am positive and so was my friend that drove the car that it felt alot more powerful!

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, but the dyno doesn't lie. Even if it was reading low, I should still see relative gains from the stock ECU to the Uni-chip. Instead I saw a 2 whp loss. Even though the dyno plot only shows 2 runs total, I made 2 runs on each set up. The runs shown are the best for the Uni-chip (which happen to be on Map A) and then with the stock ECU. Pretty ghey.

darrinb

this is just crazy

did u feel gains on the but dyno before u put the 100 octane in??

Zapata

www.obd-2.com <---------------------------------------------

seattle dale

i'm a little concerned about steve's dyno, but I know its not my imagination. Its as if i got my headers all over again. She's running with much more response & very smooth. Have you had dynos done at that place before? Could their equipment be @ fault? Have you had dynos done before & were the readings about the same? I'd like to see someone elses dyno done to see if the readings are simular. I dont know how i could be mistaken for what i'm feeling with my new chip, unless in all my excitement i'm treating this mod like a placebo, if you know what i mean, like its all in my head.

oonowindoo

______________________________

I dont have the chip so i cant say if it is actually worth the $ or not..

BUT sometimes mods are like placebo... i remember i felt my car Much faster after i installed the CAI... which we all know doesnt really do crap except for the sound. and also u always feel your car run faster after u give it a wash...

Maybe you can wait for others to do some dyno.. if they have the same horrible result as urs then we got some big problems here... if it is just you then you should double check with the your car and installation.

ChadT

If the Unichip is advancing timing the effect of the bad gas would be more pronounced with the chip. Like Scalbert said it would be causing the computer to pull timing if the gas were causing knock. There would be more knock with more timing advance. THe fact that the runs are almost identical makes this a very possible scenario as the ECU would be pulling timing to the point where it doesn't sense any knock.

LiQiCE

After driving my car around last night, I noticed a pretty nice gain in the low to mid-range. I also noticed I was going faster in each gear than normal ... So the chip is doing something I think. Not sure why your car is showing weird results on the dyno tho...

Hopefully it'll get figured out and we can get some better dynos.

scalbert

Nope, in fact you could see worse results than what was experienced. When knock is detected the ECU can get very agressive with the retard in applies. This could take you to a total advance less that what the car would normally run.

scalbert

Let us know what Unichip comes back with as there has to be a reason, we just need to find out what it is.

Is anyone else going to dyno theirs soon??

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I also thought it was running faster and smoother but I think it might be the placebo effect. I mean the chip is obviously doing something based upon the A/F numbers... it just wasn't making more power!

I guess we could assume it was "bad gas" although that's going to be an expensive assumption. The dyno cost $135 plus 5.5 gallons of 100 octane was 4.25/gallon.

I guess if I take it to the track and my trap speeds are significantly higher (1.5-2 mph) I'll know it is doing something.