Need an O2 SImulator
09-22-2003, 10:33 AM
#41
TRELOS
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: S. WPB Fla.
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Ant7701
If you leave the o2 in the gutted cat...you will throw a code for catalyst deterioration...the rear o2 is just a reader but it's only job is to make sure the cat is working...so if it reads high NOX or high HC's due to the gutted cat...the ecu will think the cat isn't working due to the read from the rear o2...however if you leave the rear o2 outside the cat...it will be picking up normal clean air...so you will be tricking the ecu into thinking that the cat is working fine...
If you leave the o2 in the gutted cat...you will throw a code for catalyst deterioration...the rear o2 is just a reader but it's only job is to make sure the cat is working...so if it reads high NOX or high HC's due to the gutted cat...the ecu will think the cat isn't working due to the read from the rear o2...however if you leave the rear o2 outside the cat...it will be picking up normal clean air...so you will be tricking the ecu into thinking that the cat is working fine...
THAT, THAT...THATS WHAT I NEEDED TO KNOW
. That right there explains to me why it won't throw a code when it is out of the cat, because it makes sure that the cat is working.AHHHHHHHHHHH
.Juker008
09-22-2003, 10:37 AM
#42
TRELOS
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: S. WPB Fla.
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by scalbert
The heater is to bring the operating temperature of the sensor up quickly. These sensors need to be at around 900 F to operate correctly. By adding an internal heater they can become active quicker thus being able to control emissions output sooner.
The vast majority of bad emissions output is during cold starts. By decreasing the time before the emissions are controlled you have helped the total output.
The sensor operates by determining the amount of O2 in the exhaust stream. It's really only accurate at around stoichiometric value for gasoline, 14.7:1. But it is pretty good in that range. What the second O2 sensor is looking for is a decrease in the sweep frequency when compared to the first O2 sensor. This indicates the catalyst is working.
But now on to my diatribe. As you may or may not know; I designed and built an endurance test stand for the manufacturer of the catalytic converters used in our cars. As such I spent considerable time at the R&D facility of this manufacturer (Calsonic). Although my test stand was a life cycle study by flowing 150 CFM and varying the outlet temperature between 100 C and 800 C every four minutes and run this for weeks, I was privy to other testing being administered.
One such test was flow bench tests on the catalytic converters. Our cats only have about 1 in pressure drop per 100 CFM. We flow about 355 in NA form and maybe up to 400 CFM when modified. This would amount to a maximum pressure drop of about 4 inches. A rule of thumb is that with every inch reduction you gain about 1 - 2 HP. This would mean that the gutting of the catalytic converter amounts to about 6 HP max gained.
I am curious if it is worth this for increased consistent emissions output?? A test pipe is one thing since it is not used but < 1% of the time. But gutting the cat is removing the primary emissions control 100% of the time.
The heater is to bring the operating temperature of the sensor up quickly. These sensors need to be at around 900 F to operate correctly. By adding an internal heater they can become active quicker thus being able to control emissions output sooner.
The vast majority of bad emissions output is during cold starts. By decreasing the time before the emissions are controlled you have helped the total output.
The sensor operates by determining the amount of O2 in the exhaust stream. It's really only accurate at around stoichiometric value for gasoline, 14.7:1. But it is pretty good in that range. What the second O2 sensor is looking for is a decrease in the sweep frequency when compared to the first O2 sensor. This indicates the catalyst is working.
But now on to my diatribe. As you may or may not know; I designed and built an endurance test stand for the manufacturer of the catalytic converters used in our cars. As such I spent considerable time at the R&D facility of this manufacturer (Calsonic). Although my test stand was a life cycle study by flowing 150 CFM and varying the outlet temperature between 100 C and 800 C every four minutes and run this for weeks, I was privy to other testing being administered.
One such test was flow bench tests on the catalytic converters. Our cats only have about 1 in pressure drop per 100 CFM. We flow about 355 in NA form and maybe up to 400 CFM when modified. This would amount to a maximum pressure drop of about 4 inches. A rule of thumb is that with every inch reduction you gain about 1 - 2 HP. This would mean that the gutting of the catalytic converter amounts to about 6 HP max gained.
I am curious if it is worth this for increased consistent emissions output?? A test pipe is one thing since it is not used but < 1% of the time. But gutting the cat is removing the primary emissions control 100% of the time.
Wow that right there gave me alot of info. Now I know
. TNX
Juker008
09-24-2003, 12:48 PM
#43
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 48
Posts: 9,940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by scalbert
I am curious if it is worth this for increased consistent emissions output?? A test pipe is one thing since it is not used but < 1% of the time. But gutting the cat is removing the primary emissions control 100% of the time.
I am curious if it is worth this for increased consistent emissions output?? A test pipe is one thing since it is not used but < 1% of the time. But gutting the cat is removing the primary emissions control 100% of the time.
Well if the R&D department at ACURA/HONDA would of left me about 12-15 inches between the header collector and CAT my dump of been able to fit and the Cat could of been left on the car.
Smitty
09-24-2003, 01:52 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Age: 45
Posts: 807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Smitty
I am playing it safe and having a bung welded on all the cut outs/dumps that are being made for the S/C'ed guys....
I am playing it safe and having a bung welded on all the cut outs/dumps that are being made for the S/C'ed guys....
09-24-2003, 01:57 PM
#45
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 48
Posts: 9,940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does this answer your question?
...yeah i will present it to the SuperCharged guys as soon as I am done working with the Stainless Steel exhaust guy...
I spoke with him last night and we are doing 2-1/4 piping with a 3 inch DUMP butterfly valve... It will bolt up to the header collector and the rest of the stock exhaust... but I will be doing stainless the rest of the way back to the muffler where I will put some BORLA can with my STOCK exhaust tips..
Sight tight... I am working hard on it
p.s. The O2 will have a SIM on it so it doesn't throw a code... and the reason i did all stainless is becuase I will have to bolt the cat up once a year for emissions if i go over 5K miles here in PA..
Smitty
09-25-2003, 12:04 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Age: 45
Posts: 807
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't believe I missed the previous posts on it
But thanks for working on something like this for all of us!!! Please write me down on the dump pipe wish list and good luck bringing it all together!
But thanks for working on something like this for all of us!!! Please write me down on the dump pipe wish list and good luck bringing it all together!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
